The Two Americas

ShawneeIrish

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Read a great commentary from David Simon (co-creator of The Wire) today on the two different realities on life in America. People of different political persuasions may differ on the cure, but it is irresponsible to ignore the problem. There are an increasing number of Americans who do not see or have the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities this nation is supposed to offer and there seems to be little in the way of solutions coming from either of our political parties. I thought some may be interested in reading this and perhaps there can even be some discussion aside from just defending one's political party or attacking their opponents.

David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show' | World news | The Observer
 

magogian

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Read a great commentary from David Simon (co-creator of The Wire) today on the two different realities on life in America. People of different political persuasions may differ on the cure, but it is irresponsible to ignore the problem. There are an increasing number of Americans who do not see or have the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities this nation is supposed to offer and there seems to be little in the way of solutions coming from either of our political parties. I thought some may be interested in reading this and perhaps there can even be some discussion aside from just defending one's political party or attacking their opponents.

David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show' | World news | The Observer

To simplify his argument, he sees all the poor, and he thinks the solution is more redistribution of wealth.

This is just the same ol same old. Except is that really the solution? You already have massive transfers of wealth from the upper middle class and the upper class to the bottom half. The bottom 41% net -9% in federal income taxes. In other words, not only does the bottom 41% not contribute income taxes but they are net recipients at tax time. Then, factor in all the social programs that help the poor: food stamps, Medicaid, housing assistance, college assistance, etc. in addition to the practically innumerable redistribution programs at the state and local level. You end up with already massive redistributions. Far more than there used to be. Yet, even as the redistribution goes up, the "two Americas" grow wider. Funny how that works.

Maybe robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't the answer.
 
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Bluto

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To simplify his argument, he sees all the poor, and he thinks the solution is more redistribution of wealth.

This is just the same ol same old. Except is that really the solution? You already have massive transfers of wealth from the upper middle class and the upper class to the bottom half. The bottom 41% net -9% in federal income taxes. In other words, not only does the bottom 41% not contribute income taxes but they are net recipients at tax time. Then, factor in all the social programs that help the poor: food stamps, Medicaid, housing assistance, college assistance, etc. You end up with already massive redistributions. Far more than there used to be. Yet, even as the redistribution goes up, the "two Americas" grow wider. Funny how that works.

Maybe robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't the answer.

So what is the answer?
 

IrishLax

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The thing I find most funny is that people actually think there is a serious problem with the way quality of life, etc. is heading in this country.

Over time, it is inarguable that society continues to progress and that through incremental advancements... technological and otherwise... things get progressively better. "Poverty" today would be "upper middle class" a couple generations ago in terms of amenities, access to education, purchasing power, etc. There are a lot of people who are just so completely devoid of perspective and common sense and want to make it seem like the sky is falling.

Could things be better? Duh. Of course they could. Are things "bad"? Fuck no.

It takes just an ounce of global perspective to realize how not-crappy everyone has it in the United States.
 

ShawneeIrish

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The thing I find most funny is that people actually think there is a serious problem with the way quality of life, etc. is heading in this country.

Over time, it is inarguable that society continues to progress and that through incremental advancements... technological and otherwise... things get progressively better. "Poverty" today would be "upper middle class" a couple generations ago in terms of amenities, access to education, purchasing power, etc. There are a lot of people who are just so completely devoid of perspective and common sense and want to make it seem like the sky is falling.

Could things be better? Duh. Of course they could. Are things "bad"? Fuck no.

It takes just an ounce of global perspective to realize how not-crappy everyone has it in the United States.

I think the point is this is true for much of the country, but decidedly untrue for other segments. Eastern Kentucky suffers from real poverty, so do inner cities through out the nation, Indian reservations in S Dakota and many other pockets of the nation. Yes, people may have things like TV that they did not have in the past, this does not equal a middle class lifestyle. Also I have a global perspective and have been to nations that are considered among the world's poorest. In Cambodia for example TV (not to mention bootleg DVDs) is prevalent does that mean it is not a poor nation?
 

Bluto

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I think the point is this is true for much of the country, but decidedly untrue for other segments. Eastern Kentucky suffers from real poverty, so do inner cities through out the nation, Indian reservations in S Dakota and many other pockets of the nation. Yes, people may have things like TV that they did not have in the past, this does not equal a middle class lifestyle. Also I have a global perspective and have been to nations that are considered among the world's poorest. In Cambodia for example TV (not to mention bootleg DVDs) is prevalent does that mean it is not a poor nation?

I'm just speaking from my experience of having traveled all over the country but I can garauntee there are many places in the US where there is crippling poverty and they resemble some of the slums I've been to in Mexico and Central America. Now that I think about it parts of Detroit look like a set from the Walking Dead.
 
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HoosierIrish

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I just wish the system wasn't abused as much as it is. I'm a student/waiter, working my butt off to pay for school. I get no help and I wouldn't expect it, because ya it's hard but i can manage. I see the system abused so much though. A fellow waiter of mine goes to a community college and takes 3 credit hours a semester. He doesn't even know what he wants to do. He just does it because the government gives him 5000 dollars in grants a semester to go to school. So he gets paid 10,000 a year to barley go to class when 70 percent of what i make goes towards my tuition.

Another girl at my work was complaining about how she couldn't get on food stamps and how she didn't know what she was going to do if she couldn't. Someone started explaining it to her and asked what her assets were. She drives a brand new 2013 Lexus, and when someone suggested selling it she said there was no way and that was her baby. A month or so later she was telling us about how she ended up getting the food stamps. Which she only got to try and sell them for half the price to other coworkers.

Another girl was bragging about how she gets 6000 a year back on her taxes when she probably only pays 1000.

I absolutely hate the little card for food stamps. I would never in a million years take food stamps unless i absolutely had to in order to feed my family, I'd be too embarrassed to. I try and eat healthy, I shop and get everything thats store brand and cheap and when i see someone with food stamps buying name brand and buying steaks and expensive things they don't need it drives me nuts.

I'm all for helping out people who need it. It just makes me sick how the government makes it so easy for people who don't need help to abuse the system. Sorry for my rambling,I'm studying for finals, and this subject pisses me off.
 

EddytoNow

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.
 

50milesSE ND

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

Rich white man? I hope your not going down the racist path now. Anyways I don't believe in redistribution of wealth bs. If you want a better life than work for it, and can't argue that. Sure it comes easier for some, but this crap of playing a victim of society is rediculous. Like the guy who is waiter/student he is busting his ass to do it the right way, an d wish you nothing but success. Why can't people just bare down and work anymore? Take pride in youself, and want better for you and those around you. I remember reading how inner city school systems along with society are believed to be letting down students and youths. I look at it from another perspective of why the parents arw letting these children down, and why these children are letting down society by being another statistic. Sorry people but the saying that you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink are so true. Also feed a man fish and he eats for a day or teach a man to fish and he eats for life. To many damn victims with excuses this America. You really xan be whatever you want to be, but some people just don't want to role up their sleeves an work jobs that may not be good enough for them thinking only in short term. These were drivers for me to better myself. Go Bless America and GO IRISH PS Merry Christmas
 

50milesSE ND

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

Rich white man? I hope your not going down the racist path now. Anyways I don't believe in redistribution of wealth bs. If you want a better life than work for it, and can't argue that. Sure it comes easier for some, but this crap of playing a victim of society is rediculous. Like the guy who is waiter/student he is busting his ass do it the right way, an d wish you nothing but success. Why can't people just bare down and work anymore? Take pride in youself, and want better for you and those around you. I remember reading how inner city school systems along with society are believed to be letting down students and youths. I look at it from another perspective of why the parents are letting these children down, and why these children are letting down society by being another statistic. Sorry people but the saying that you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink is so true. Also feed a man fish and he eats for a day or teach a man to fish and he eats for life. To many damn victims with excuses this is America. You really can be whatever you want to be, but some people just don't want to role up their sleeves and work jobs that may not be good enough for them thinking only in short term. These were drivers for me to better myself. Go Bless America and GO IRISH PS Merry Christmas
 
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Cackalacky

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inequality+2.png

This chart has been bandied about but I think it is very telling. I understand it is probably not the whole story in one chart but its hard to deny that in 1979, something significant changed.

We as a whole country have shown a tremendous increase in productivity, yet wages have risen only slightly, and almost none for males. Where does the benefit of productivity go to?

On the other side....

productivityboom.gif


The answers are usually somewhere in the middle.
 
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goldandblue

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

See that is the problem. It's not the country's wealth as in the bolded comment above, it is the peoples wealth.

That is exactly what this country was founded upon. Go to China... I can't believe you freaking people.
 

nlroma1o

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

^This guy cant be serious....

You probably think the hamburger flippers at McDonalds should make $15 an hour, don't you?
 

IrishLax

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I think the point is this is true for much of the country, but decidedly untrue for other segments. Eastern Kentucky suffers from real poverty, so do inner cities through out the nation, Indian reservations in S Dakota and many other pockets of the nation. Yes, people may have things like TV that they did not have in the past, this does not equal a middle class lifestyle. Also I have a global perspective and have been to nations that are considered among the world's poorest. In Cambodia for example TV (not to mention bootleg DVDs) is prevalent does that mean it is not a poor nation?

I'm just speaking from my experience of having traveled all over the country but I can garauntee there are many places in the US where there is crippling poverty and they resemble some of the slums I've been to in Mexico and Central America. Now that I think about it parts of Detroit look like a set from the Walking Dead.

Then people need to leave these areas and move somewhere else where they can get a job. I see the same thing in West Virginia where the mine went out of business ages ago in a mining town... but people refuse to move and instead want to live on an economy supported by welfare and disability checks.

Still, if you compare these places to rural Guatemala where people survive on a dollar a day or less it's not even close. In America, being "poor" is only "bad" RELATIVE to those that are well off. And this perception and the mythical poverty line are never going to go away... not even with significant redistribution of wealth or huge social welfare initiatives... because there is always going to be someone who is a "have" and another that is a "have not."

I've been in buildings in DC where people are considered to be living below the poverty line and having a substandard quality of life... and these people have air conditioning, TV, internet, refrigeration, an automobile or access to great public transportation, enough purchasing power to feed themselves and their family, their children have access to free education and reasonable access to higher level education with scholarships, etc. Is that not a substantial step up from generations ago? Would these people not be considered "well off" in other parts of the world or compared to previous generations?

Again, there are things that need to be improved and should be changed... that's always going to be the case. The idea that this is a "horror story" and that the US of A is about to devolve into something out of Mad Max is nothing more than Hollywood sensationalism.
 
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Cackalacky

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See that is the problem. It's not the country's wealth as in the bolded comment above, it is the peoples wealth.

That is exactly what this country was founded upon. Go to China... I can't believe you freaking people.

You do understand that for every Walmart Superstore that runs 24 hours, the American taxpayer subsidizes their non-livable wage earners about a total $900K per year right? The number of Superstores now outnumbers the number of "regular" Walmarts.

Like I said above it is a dynamic that has to change on both sides.

Walmart cannot continue to pay its employees little or their product should suffer. However, they reap tax benefits of this country, and they also have to keep their shareholders happy and any increase in pay would affect their bottom line.

Taxpayers don't like subsidizing people with food stamps, medicaid, and WIC programs, but Walmart employees dont have access to a livable wage without having to work massive amounts of hours (which Walmart wont allow because they will hire another person at 39 hours per week rather than give one person the opportunity for more hours) or the employee has to get a second job (hard to do right now).
 

NDBoiler

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

So conversely, has the "rich white man" not worked hard for years in his life to get to the point where he could make that kind if money? What about a rich Asian or African American man, have they worked harder to earn their millions? What about a rich woman, has she worked harder, and is therefore more deserving, than all of the rich men? The point is, this is basic economics at work. Every worker, from the corporate CEO to the minimum wage fast food employee, is paid exactly what they are "worth" in the market. If a company is unable to fill an open job or jobs at a given wage, then the market dictates that that wage will go up to attract the worker to fill that job until the employment/wage reach an equilibrium. Take for example the fast food worker's strike from last week. If there are unemployed workers willing to take the striking worker's jobs at the same wage, then the market has dictated that the wage is "correct", but if the employer cannot fill those jobs, then the market will dictate an increase in wages to attract workers to then fill those jobs.
 

NDBoiler

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^This guy cant be serious....

You probably think the hamburger flippers at McDonalds should make $15 an hour, don't you?

I agree that if you increased the wages to $15/hour you would probably see a lot less people working those jobs and more automation, essentially the workers would be shooting themselves in the foot. Again, the market dictates wages. It isn't pretty or "fair" sometimes, but it is the "invisible hand" at work.
 

NDBoiler

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Read a great commentary from David Simon (co-creator of The Wire) today on the two different realities on life in America. People of different political persuasions may differ on the cure, but it is irresponsible to ignore the problem. There are an increasing number of Americans who do not see or have the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities this nation is supposed to offer and there seems to be little in the way of solutions coming from either of our political parties. I thought some may be interested in reading this and perhaps there can even be some discussion aside from just defending one's political party or attacking their opponents.

David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show' | World news | The Observer

I wish I had more time to respond, but I think Mr. Simon's biggest flaw in his argument is a lack of statistical evidnece to back up his points. He seems to be speaking off the cuff and basing his argument on emotion moreso than providing structured reasoning and proposing a concrete solution based on facts. I recently read a book that fits this article pretty well called Intellectuals and Society by Thomas Sowell. I'd recommend it to anyone who wishes to examine Mr. Simon's apparent mindset in more detail.
 

BobD

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Wall street demands profit. If it can't get it from business growth, it gets it through margin by decreasing costs.The number one expense at most companies is payroll. Our system is set up in a way that is causing us to eat our own.
 

Voltaire

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The idea that this is a "horror story" and that the US of A is about to devolve into something out of Mad Max is nothing more than Hollywood sensationalism.

This idea that there is no social mobility in the United States, and that you can only get by if you are of a certain skin color or from a certain socioeconomic class is just BS. Yes, it is certainly easier to be prosperous if you were born into certain socioeconomic classes, but the idea that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get by if you weren't born white and rich is just an agenda that is easy to push because it makes many, many people feel good about themselves and feel like they don't have to work hard or make sacrifices in their lives to get ahead.

I grew up in a small town in the Midwest (99.2% white in the 2000 census with the 0.8% being comprised of my family that lived in town). A lot of my friends from high school who never studied hard and took six years to get a useless degree from some college no one has heard of and have no discernible skills work at the local Wal-Mart or some other similar type of job, and make next to nothing. I have other friends I went to high school with who are now on food stamps (yet still somehow have discretionary income for weed), and wouldn't you know it they grew up with more money than I did. Why anyone thinks those people deserve more than they get is beyond me. You choose to stack shelves for a living, then you have to deal with the consequences.

Here was my formula for going from a non-white household with $25k in household income in which I lived with a single mother who worked three jobs to support myself and my elderly grandparents who lived in the same house as me to me hitting the top tax bracket this year as a 28-year old. My mother was not sexually irresponsible and did not have additional children she couldn't afford to support. If she had had one more kid, our family would have been flat-out broke on the $25k per year my mother made. Instead, she sacrificed for me, wearing worn out clothes and shoes with holes in them, worked seven days a week, and never had any more children. I repaid this by working hard, never drinking in high school, being valedictorian of my class, going to an Ivy League school, and now as a 28-year old I hit the top tax bracket this year.

Note that there is no welfare, no governmental aid, and no "white privilege" in the aforementioned story. It was comprised entirely of self-sacrifice, sacrifice for one's child, focus, and hard work. How many generations did this social mobility take? It took one, and it didn't even involve being a professional entertainer or athlete. One generation of a family committed to hard work, education, not blaming others, and not playing the race card as an excuse for one's lack of success.

In fact, I once wrote a college application essay talking about overcoming constant, malicious, racism at my high school, and when my mother read it, she was extremely upset. She was upset because she said that she thought that she had taught me better than to ever use the race card. I remember being taken aback by her response at the time, but now 10 year later and having joined the real world as an adult, I realized how right she was in terms of trying to teach how to have a useful, constructive perspective on the world.

Separately, have you all seen in person what destitute people actually look like in China and India or elsewhere in the third world? Their quality of life is literally (and by literally I don't mean that figuratively) the same as feral, flea-infested dogs. It is jarring to your soul to see in person. That's not what your average family on food stamps looks like in America. It's not even close.
 

NDBoiler

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So what is the answer?

Read below

This idea that there is no social mobility in the United States, and that you can only get by if you are of a certain skin color or from a certain socioeconomic class is just BS. Yes, it is certainly easier to be prosperous if you were born into certain socioeconomic classes, but the idea that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get by if you weren't born white and rich is just an agenda that is easy to push because it makes many, many people feel good about themselves and feel like they don't have to work hard or make sacrifices in their lives to get ahead.

I grew up in a small town in the Midwest (99.2% white in the 2000 census with the 0.8% being comprised of my family that lived in town). A lot of my friends from high school who never studied hard and took six years to get a useless degree from some college no one has heard of and have no discernible skills work at the local Wal-Mart or some other similar type of job, and make next to nothing. I have other friends I went to high school with who are now on food stamps (yet still somehow have discretionary income for weed), and wouldn't you know it they grew up with more money than I did. Why anyone thinks those people deserve more than they get is beyond me. You choose to stack shelves for a living, then you have to deal with the consequences.

Here was my formula for going from a non-white household with $25k in household income in which I lived with a single mother who worked three jobs to support myself and my elderly grandparents who lived in the same house as me to me hitting the top tax bracket this year as a 28-year old. My mother was not sexually irresponsible and did not have additional children she couldn't afford to support. If she had had one more kid, our family would have been flat-out broke on the $25k per year my mother made. Instead, she sacrificed for me, wearing worn out clothes and shoes with holes in them, worked seven days a week, and never had any more children. I repaid this by working hard, never drinking in high school, being valedictorian of my class, going to an Ivy League school, and now as a 28-year old I hit the top tax bracket this year.

Note that there is no welfare, no governmental aid, and no "white privilege" in the aforementioned story. It was comprised entirely of self-sacrifice, sacrifice for one's child, focus, and hard work. How many generations did this social mobility take? It took one, and it didn't even involve being a professional entertainer or athlete. One generation of a family committed to hard work, education, not blaming others, and not playing the race card as an excuse for one's lack of success.

In fact, I once wrote a college application essay talking about overcoming constant, malicious, racism at my high school, and when my mother read it, she was extremely upset. She was upset because she said that she thought that she had taught me better than to ever use the race card. I remember being taken aback by her response at the time, but now 10 year later and having joined the real world as an adult, I realized how right she was in terms of trying to teach how to have a useful, constructive perspective on the world.

Separately, have you all seen in person what destitute people actually look like in China and India or elsewhere in the third world? Their quality of life is literally (and by literally I don't mean that figuratively) the same as feral, flea-infested dogs. It is jarring to your soul to see in person. That's not what your average family on food stamps looks like in America. It's not even close.
 

connor_in

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Redistribution wouldn't be necessary if the country's wealth was distributed equally in the first place. The disparity in wages in this country is ridiculous. For every person cheating the welfare system there is a rich white man making multi-millions of dollars while he plays golf at the finest golf courses or dines in the finest restaurants. One works his *** off for minimum wages or can't find a job at all while the other gets paid very, very well for the work of others. The McDonald's or Wal-Mart worker is a good example of the first and a recent presidential candidate is a good example of the second. Unfortunately, the country's financial resources are solely in the hands of the latter and others like him.

...and how do you propose that to come about? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need? Where have we seen a system like this work and prosper over time? Capitalism may not always be pretty and in many eyes is not always fair, but our version of it has worked better for the most people for a long time. I, for one do not look to the goverment for ALL the answers or to solve all the problems. Besides, if you want to blame something, than blame those immigrants that came here to MAKE a better life for themselves. This country was founded based on many of the ideals of the Protestant work ethic and so people believed to work hard to achieve was the greatest accomplishment the could achieve for themselves and their families. Our country has built in various "safety nets" over time and their rage great debates about those items in today's world as to whether they help or hinder. The answer is both, a balance must be struck to make them try to work optimally. Yes we need the safety net for those in society, but is it welfare or workfare. People goose the system on both ends. There are rich people who simply inherited wealth or glom onto it with little to no work effort ever and/or play the system and get the breaks AND there are people on the lower end who will work the system and accept a certain level of life in exchange for not working or putting forth much of an effort to increase their lot in life. Most of us are somewhere in that huge middle area where we are succesful enough for the modest dreams we have and trade off working overtime to spend time with family or friends...not moving to an area where we might have better success to that we can live where we are and leave behind that which we know and love.

There are still opportunitie out there and I don't just mean in this country. There are niches and deals and ideas just waiting to make somebody into something bigger. There are hurdles too and struggles...but that is life...and as Momma always said, who said life was fair?

/My 2 cents
 
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Cackalacky

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Which world do you want to live in?
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DSully1995

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Despite a voluminous and often fervent literature on "income distribution" the cold fact is that most income isn’t distributed: It is earned</p>— Thomas Sowell (@ThomasSowell) <a href="https://twitter.com/ThomasSowell/statuses/409000634202198017">December 6, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

GoldenToTheGrave

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I don't care for the whole class warfare debate (news flash: The rich won when Ronald Regan was elected) or the whole "pull up by your bootstraps" argument.

Fact of the matter is that real wages of people actually working has gone DOWN, despite massive increases in productivity. Adequate healthcare has become out of reach for a large segment of the population. At the same time college tuition has soared while state funding has declined.

All this at a time of steadily expanding per capita GDP. How can anybody argue there isn't a problem on a societal level. Sure, any individual can go on to succeed. But a falling tide has been sinking a lot of ships.
 

woolybug25

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This thread is comical. The OP hoped it wouldn't turn political, only for it to turn so in the very first response.

I'm pretty sure Lax's first post is the only one that actually addressed the topics in the article.

Guess the response to the article kind of proves it's point though, right? Two opinions, no answers.
 

goldandblue

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I don't care for the whole class warfare debate (news flash: The rich won when Ronald Regan was elected) or the whole "pull up by your bootstraps" argument.

Fact of the matter is that real wages of people actually working has gone DOWN, despite massive increases in productivity. Adequate healthcare has become out of reach for a large segment of the population. At the same time college tuition has soared while state funding has declined.

All this at a time of steadily expanding per capita GDP. How can anybody argue there isn't a problem on a societal level. Sure, any individual can go on to succeed. But a falling tide has been sinking a lot of ships.

Do you think that productivity has increased because workers are working harder? Hell no. Technological advancements have allowed productivity to increase. Why should the workers at McDonalds get paid more because the corporation just installed the new "Fry Shit Faster 3000"?
 
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