The Shirt

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ndftbl

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They actually most do

They actually most do

"I've been to the Big House twice and they don't all wear only maize."

Never said they "all" wear it, and never said I expect all ND fans will either.

But 90+% do (just watch the replay of the 2011 game), and it makes all the difference.
 
gkIrish

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ndftbl said:
"I've been to the Big House twice and they don't all wear only maize."

Never said they "all" wear it, and never said I expect all ND fans will either.

But 90+% do (just watch the replay of the 2011 game), and it makes all the difference.
Click to expand...

I literally answered this in my last post. Are you actually reading what I say? They did it specifically because it was a night game. The first one. Ever. In the last 100+ years.

I'm trying hard not to get personal but you're making it difficult. I suspect your red rep has something to do with that.
 
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ndftbl

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Wish you were correct, but . . .

Wish you were correct, but . . .

gkIrish said:
I literally answered this in my last post. Are you actually reading what I say? They did it specifically because it was a night game. The first one. Ever. In the last 100+ years.

I'm trying hard not to get personal but you're making it difficult. I suspect your red rep has something to do with that.
Click to expand...

I was there two years go, too, and 90+% wore maize.

(Sorry, just a fact.)
 
gkIrish

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ndftbl said:
I was there two years go, too, and 90+% wore maize.

(Sorry, just a fact.)
Click to expand...

By two years, you mean 2010? When Notre Dame didn't play at Michigan? So you went to a random Michigan game...so you like Michigan. And have negative reps.

Obviously 90% wear maize in some form. Because Maize and Blue are Michigan's only colors and fans don't have to choose between blue and gold or green as Notre Dame's fans do. You're making my point for me.

Mods please delete these last few posts if necessary. I realize I'm drifting off topic
 
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BGIF

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ndftbl said:
"The Shirt can't solve that problem, and never will."

And my last comment is that I think it can.

Michigan's colors are maize and blue, yet all you see in the stadium is the bright colored maize.

Intimidating, to see so many wearing the same primary color, cheering at the same time.

As the Observer author suggests, over time the stadium color will change - it's not going to happen overnight.
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WRONG. It can.

I've posted this before. Colleges around the nation get there fans to wear a color and have since before WWII. It isnt'a new concept. A lot of schools put out reminders with season ticket sales. They reinforce it when the send out the tickets, Oct 1st is "RED DAY" ... "WHITE OUT" ... etc. They use booster groups, alumni chapters, Parent's Weekend Notices, Dorm Bulletin Boards, to build word of mouth AND peer pressure. "Don't show up in the WRONG color." It was done before computers, modems, and smart phones.

I posted on this before here. About '11 years ago there was an ND senior I know who proposed on an ND board wearing one color to games. The topic was discussed on the board with the pro and cons of the various colors. He didn't like green having seen Davie fail in green. (I noted the color wasn't the problem, it was the COACH). He finally selected Gold. I told him it was vibrant enough. Someone photoshopped the stadium sold out in Gold. He got the message.

He opted for Green. He went over to the AD's office excited. He came back discouraged. They couldn't have cared less. "It's not our official color." "We can't tell people what to wear." "People couldn't wear The Shirt" Every excuse why it couldn't be done.

I told him to start with his dorm, then go to other dorms and sound it out. I gave him the list of ND Clubs around the country with the local contact person. The Shirt that year was Green which helped. ND still would not support it through University literature or websites. Still fans started showing up in green. I was one of 5,000 Green Clad Irishman that marched into Doak Campbell Stadium to the chant, "HERE COME THE IRISH!" The 80,000 Garnet and Gold Clad Noles became silent as the 5,000 Screaming Green Irishman entered the stadium and marched chanting to their seats. The camera only panned our area once on the Jumbotron as we stood out so boldy. ND whipped the undefeated Noles.

The next week Coach Willingham dressed the Team in Green as he noted to the press to honor the green clad fans. The team AND the fans wore green that day. Meanwhile the BC coach used some psychology on his team and said, "ND only dresses in green for tough games, for tough opponents. They're afraid of you and had to dig out special uniforms." It wasn't the reason but nonetheless, he got his guys fired up. ND was flat coming off the big win over FSU and the starting QB got knocked out setting up the Dillingham flip. An ND drive that turned an errant throw while in the grasp into 7 BC points.

ND fans blamed the green instead of a bad coach who had screwed up the QB depth so a walk-on had to be used as there was nobody else.


ND can turn that stadium any color they want IF they organize a campaign on a timely basis to do so like Nebraska, Arkansas and so many other schools have done for decades.

But as long as there is the logic that "it will hurt 'THE SHIRT' sales" and "Hammes won't have the right inventory" and "it will be sooo hard to coordinate", it won't happen.
 
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ndftbl

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2009, obviously

2009, obviously

gkIrish said:
By two years, you mean 2010? When Notre Dame didn't play at Michigan? So you went to a random Michigan game...so you like Michigan. And have negative reps.

Obviously 90% wear maize in some form. Because Maize and Blue are Michigan's only colors and fans don't have to choose between blue and gold or green as Notre Dame's fans do. You're making my point for me.

Mods please delete these last few posts if necessary. I realize I'm drifting off topic
Click to expand...

The topic was a good one, as all the other commentators seem to attest.

Seems like you are the only one who disagrees, but you are certainly entitled to your views, and I respect them.
 
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ndftbl

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Agree

Agree

BGIF said:
WRONG. It can.

I've posted this before. Colleges around the nation get there fans to wear a color and have since before WWII. It isnt'a new concept. A lot of schools put out reminders with season ticket sales. They reinforce it when the send out the tickets, Oct 1st is "RED DAY" ... "WHITE OUT" ... etc. They use booster groups, alumni chapters, Parent's Weekend Notices, Dorm Bulletin Boards, to build word of mouth AND peer pressure. "Don't show up in the WRONG color." It was done before computers, modems, and smart phones.

I posted on this before here. About '11 years ago there was an ND senior I know who proposed on an ND board wearing one color to games. The topic was discussed on the board with the pro and cons of the various colors. He didn't like green having seen Davie fail in green. (I noted the color wasn't the problem, it was the COACH). He finally selected Gold. I told him it was vibrant enough. Someone photoshopped the stadium sold out in Gold. He got the message.

He opted for Green. He went over to the AD's office excited. He came back discouraged. They couldn't have cared less. "It's not our official color." "We can't tell people what to wear." "People couldn't wear The Shirt" Every excuse why it couldn't be done.

I told him to start with his dorm, then go to other dorms and sound it out. I gave him the list of ND Clubs around the country with the local contact person. The Shirt that year was Green which helped. ND still would not support it through University literature or websites. Still fans started showing up in green. I was one of 5,000 Green Clad Irishman that marched into Doak Campbell Stadium to the chant, "HERE COME THE IRISH!" The 80,000 Garnet and Gold Clad Noles became silent as the 5,000 Screaming Green Irishman entered the stadium and marched chanting to their seats. The camera only panned our area once on the Jumbotron as we stood out so boldy. ND whipped the undefeated Noles.

The next week Coach Willingham dressed the Team in Green as he noted to the press to honor the green clad fans. The team AND the fans wore green that day. Meanwhile the BC coach used some psychology on his team and said, "ND only dresses in green for tough games, for tough opponents. They're afraid of you and had to dig out special uniforms." It wasn't the reason but nonetheless, he got his guys fired up. ND was flat coming off the big win over FSU and the starting QB got knocked out setting up the Dillingham flip. An ND drive that turned an errant throw while in the grasp into 7 BC points.

ND fans blamed the green instead of a bad coach who had screwed up the QB depth so a walk-on had to be used as there was nobody else.


ND can turn that stadium any color they want IF they organize a campaign on a timely basis to do so like Nebraska, Arkansas and so many other schools have done for decades.

But as long as there is the logic that "it will hurt 'THE SHIRT' sales" and "Hammes won't have the right inventory" and "it will be sooo hard to coordinate", it won't happen.
Click to expand...

I was quoting the other poster.

I definitely agree with all of your comments above, and most on this board also seem to agree with you.

Well put! You should write in a response to the Observer with your above comments; it can only help.
 
Last edited:
nlroma1o

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ndftbl said:
I was there two years go, too, and 90+% wore maize.

(Sorry, just a fact.)
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree with you. Ive been to far too many games up there over the last 5 years. Trust me, there has NEVER been as much maize in the stands as there was for the UTL game.
 
Rocket89

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I think it's worth a try to keep The Shirt one color (it has to be kelly green) for a number of years---but I'm still skeptical of it paying off in the end.

Does the school, alumni, fans have to get behind it more ferociously? Absolutely, 100% they do.

Are the concerns over losing money for charity likely overblown? Yes, I think so.

Yet, I can't help but get back to one of my main points:

People just do not want to bother color coordinating in the first place.

Further, this weekend's basketball game against Syracuse was cited as example of how the green shirts can create a better atmosphere, more intimidating fans, etc. etc.

Yet, watching on TV I didn't see much green outside of the students. I've looked at some pictures and....basically zero green. So it's really no different than a football game.

I know ND has three colors and that makes it more difficult, but people come to the football games without ANY of the football colors. People come to the games without a speck of any Notre Dame gear on.

It's not just a few people either...we're talking thousands and thousands of people.

Perhaps continuous years of the Shirt being the same color and greater efforts to promote green-outs from the university will help, but I'm not sure.

I still think there are far too many people who just don't care and never will. They think it's silly. It's beneath them to wear the same color as everyone else. They aren't at the games to improve the atmosphere. They loath the bookstore and hate the school purposely promoting itself.

Every few years they'll buy a plain gray shirt with a simple design on it, that's it. They're constantly at odds with the university, and any attempt by the school to promote something like what BGIF suggests above would be met with more scorn and ridicule.

In fact, I think there's too many people still out there who actively are against making the stadium the same color.
 
nlroma1o

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Rocket89 said:
I think it's worth a try to keep The Shirt one color (it has to be kelly green) for a number of years---but I'm still skeptical of it paying off in the end.

Does the school, alumni, fans have to get behind it more ferociously? Absolutely, 100% they do.

Are the concerns over losing money for charity likely overblown? Yes, I think so.

Yet, I can't help but get back to one of my main points:

People just do not want to bother color coordinating in the first place.

Further, this weekend's basketball game against Syracuse was cited as example of how the green shirts can create a better atmosphere, more intimidating fans, etc. etc.

Yet, watching on TV I didn't see much green outside of the students. I've looked at some pictures and....basically zero green. So it's really no different than a football game.

I know ND has three colors and that makes it more difficult, but people come to the football games without ANY of the football colors. People come to the games without a speck of any Notre Dame gear on.It's not just a few people either...we're talking thousands and thousands of people.
Perhaps continuous years of the Shirt being the same color and greater efforts to promote green-outs from the university will help, but I'm not sure.

I still think there are far too many people who just don't care and never will. They think it's silly. It's beneath them to wear the same color as everyone else. They aren't at the games to improve the atmosphere. They loath the bookstore and hate the school purposely promoting itself.

Every few years they'll buy a plain gray shirt with a simple design on it, that's it. They're constantly at odds with the university, and any attempt by the school to promote something like what BGIF suggests above would be met with more scorn and ridicule.

In fact, I think there's too many people still out there who actively are against making the stadium the same color.
Click to expand...

You're more right than you know. It's sad because the brave group of fans that go to the away games year after year wear more gear and cheer louder than the fans that show up to the home games not wearing a spec of clothing to support the team.
 
irishtrinity

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BGIF said:
They could sell "THE HAT" for $2.00 over cost and make well over 100K.

They could sell "THE HOODIE"

They could sell "THE TOWEL"

They could sell ...

ND has the best business school and a lot of bright minds. Did the thinking stop with the creation of "THE SHIRT"?
Click to expand...

No way you nailed it..I would buy a hoodie and shirt/towel....With the green shirts white or green towels would be killer...
 
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ndftbl

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It was blinding

It was blinding

nlroma1o said:
I'd have to disagree with you. Ive been to far too many games up there over the last 5 years. Trust me, there has NEVER been as much maize in the stands as there was for the UTL game.
Click to expand...

Especially because it was a sunny day, there was so much maize in 2009, it was almost blinding.

And though we sat next to the Michigan student section, my wife and I both commented that it was impossible to tell where the student section ended, and the rest of the alumni began.

Just telling you what we observed; you certainly don't have to agree with us.
 
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ndftbl

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PLEASE write a letter to the Observer (Viewpoint) . . .

PLEASE write a letter to the Observer (Viewpoint) . . .

Rocket89 said:
I think it's worth a try to keep The Shirt one color (it has to be kelly green) for a number of years---but I'm still skeptical of it paying off in the end.

Does the school, alumni, fans have to get behind it more ferociously? Absolutely, 100% they do.

Are the concerns over losing money for charity likely overblown? Yes, I think so.

Yet, I can't help but get back to one of my main points:

People just do not want to bother color coordinating in the first place.

Further, this weekend's basketball game against Syracuse was cited as example of how the green shirts can create a better atmosphere, more intimidating fans, etc. etc.

Yet, watching on TV I didn't see much green outside of the students. I've looked at some pictures and....basically zero green. So it's really no different than a football game.

I know ND has three colors and that makes it more difficult, but people come to the football games without ANY of the football colors. People come to the games without a speck of any Notre Dame gear on.

It's not just a few people either...we're talking thousands and thousands of people.

Perhaps continuous years of the Shirt being the same color and greater efforts to promote green-outs from the university will help, but I'm not sure.

I still think there are far too many people who just don't care and never will. They think it's silly. It's beneath them to wear the same color as everyone else. They aren't at the games to improve the atmosphere. They loath the bookstore and hate the school purposely promoting itself.

Every few years they'll buy a plain gray shirt with a simple design on it, that's it. They're constantly at odds with the university, and any attempt by the school to promote something like what BGIF suggests above would be met with more scorn and ridicule.

In fact, I think there's too many people still out there who actively are against making the stadium the same color.
Click to expand...

. . . with your excellent points.

It can ONLY help!!
 
gkIrish

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ndftbl said:
. . . with your excellent points.

It can ONLY help!!
Click to expand...

Can you please disclose right now what your affiliation with the Observer is. I'm purely curious. 90% of your posts mention the Observer in one way or another.
 
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I don't really think the disdain for a different colored shirt is legitimate. It's a shirt. Calm down.

I think the process is fine just the way it is. Making everything uniform just kills the creativity of it all--are you a bunch of Communists?! :)
 
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ndftbl

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???

???

gkIrish said:
Can you please disclose right now what your affiliation with the Observer is. I'm purely curious. 90% of your posts mention the Observer in one way or another.
Click to expand...

Isn't this entire chain about the Observer article?

Why, then, wouldn't I mention the article, in one way or another?

Anyway, good thoughts by both sides on this.
 
kmoose

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Rocket89 said:
In deference to your opinion kmoose, I'm going to call BS.

The biggest problem isn't the color of the shirt, nor the design, but that there are too many fans cheering for Notre Dame who take fickle to an entirely new level.

The designs are the problem?
Click to expand...

I never said that the designs were a problem. The Committee said that having one color would be a problem for maintaining annual sales. I have at least two dozen blue ND shirts. If I see a new design that I like, I'm not going to NOT buy it simply because I already have a blue ND shirt. Same goes for green shirts, or "gold" shirts.

Rocket89 said:
And as far as your critique of the designs, the Onward to Victory shirt was last years and was kelly green.

Guess what? There's no cartoonish scene on the back. It's a picture of Jim Flanagan from the 1993 FSU game, and a picture of the crowd in the background. The front says We are the Fighting Irish with a shamrock denoting the year (2010).

Perhaps you mixed one of the shirt's up (I can't recall any cartoonish scenes on any in recent years), but if you haven't---I don't see how Notre Dame is going to really win you over here.

EDIT: I see you meant the 2004 version, no?
Click to expand...

Correct, it was the 2004 shirt. Which I bought. However, I just said it was my least favorite of the designs.


Rocket89 said:
And that brings me back to my original point. People are always going to complain. The color sucks, the designs need to be better, etc. It's just so depressing.
Click to expand...

That's a you problem. Don't try to turn it into a me problem. I didn't start a thread complaining about The Shirt. I simply replied that they could get around the idea of only one color hurting sales by using designs that people would love to have. It's just my opinion. But it's also my money, and I don't have to justify choosing to spend it, or not, on The Shirt.
 
BeauBenken

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Or perhaps instead of a shamrock there will be a pot leaf?
 
TDHeysus

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i am going to buy it, no matter how much I like it, or how much I dont like it. of course, I wish it is something I do like, but if The Shirt is hideous, im still gonna pick one up.
even if it was the same color every year, and only the date changed, i'd still get one.
 
jimmymac

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Predictions? I think it will be gold, not pale gold from a couple of years ago, but reallly gold like the new helmets... Just my guess
 
PANDFAN

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jimmymac said:
Predictions? I think it will be gold, not pale gold from a couple of years ago, but reallly gold like the new helmets... Just my guess
Click to expand...

i actually have an ND shirt that just says irish with the shamrock..both are in the gold of the new helmets although this shirt is a few years old...its a sick shirt...here is to hoping :)
 
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