The case for an 8 Team Playoff

[NDRock]

I agree. I don't think they will leave though. They would lose their status joining the PAC. I think they are just trying to suck up every dollar they can until their hand is forced. Right now, the two ADs are bending over the rest of the conference and hold all the leverage. They should pick up UCF, BSt, Cinci, and Houston IMO. USF, Temple, SMU, Memphis, and BYU would be solid too.

If I weren't a ND fan, I'd be a huge fan of four 16 team super conferences. It would make things so much cleaner.

I think that would be fun. 8 divisions, essentially the 8 winners of each division are in the playoff. You could play everyone in your division (7 teams) and then do some sort of rotation for the other 5 games. Maybe 1 from the other side of the conference, 1 from each of the other 3 conferences and 1 from a non Power 4 conference. No more FBS, everyone plays the same number of games against Power 4 teams. Or something along those lines.

Anyone already figure out where the Big 12 teams would go?
Pac 12 would need 4
Big 10 would need 2
SEC would need 2
ACC would need 2 (one being ND)

Does that leave 65? Who gets eliminated?

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't disagree, but how pedantic are we going to get in attacking 'Bama? No matter how you slice it, they're playing and dominating against one of the toughest schedules in the country year in and year out. I can't conceive of a credible system that would slot in a team like UCF over 'Bama.

I honestly don't think it too pedantic. I don't necessarily see it as criticism of Bama so much as the system itself.

I would definitely not slot UCF over Bama. I would however slot UCF over OK. But I don't want to digress in the subjective nature of best vs deserving, or general flaws in a CFP that covers P5 and non-P5. There's great points on both sides of that argument. I think we'll have 8 sooner than later, so the UCF debate will be closer to solved.

In general.... Bama is on another level. They have dominated easily more than any team in the last ten years regular and post season. Great coach, great recruits, great facilities, great fan base, spend the money, work the system, etc... they do it all masterfully.

That's another frustrating aspect, since we can't really replicate Saban's methods given our unique circumstances. I'm just struggling to find non-pedantic grounds for criticizing 'Bama's position in the current system. You can get into the whole student-athlete/ semi-pro thing, but that's an indictment of the system as a whole.

We actually could replicate closer to what Bama does in scheduling. We just chose not to. We could schedule more powder puffs before big games. We could stop travelling so much (Shamrock Series for instance) and have better bye placement (did we really need a bye before Navy over some of the others). I'm not saying replicate perfectly, but we chose to make some things tougher than they need to be. Those things are an indictment on us.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think that would be fun. 8 divisions, essentially the 8 winners of each division are in the playoff. You could play everyone in your division (7 teams) and then do some sort of rotation for the other 5 games. Maybe 1 from the other side of the conference, 1 from each of the other 3 conferences and 1 from a non Power 4 conference. No more FBS, everyone plays the same number of games against Power 4 teams. Or something along those lines.

Anyone already figure out where the Big 12 teams would go?
Pac 12 would need 4
Big 10 would need 2
SEC would need 2
ACC would need 2 (one being ND)

Does that leave 65? Who gets eliminated?

My dream would be 80 teams, with some NFL type structure and schedule. I'd do 4 conferences with 4 divisions of 5 teams. Play each team in your division twice (8 games), one you pick-em rivalry game played every year within the conference (rotating home and away), one you pick-em yearly rivalry game out of conference, and one out of conference match up based on last year's performance. I'd let each team play a scrimmage / pre-season game that doesn't count vs a non-P4.

That's 11 games. Only the 8 division games count towards division leader (with NFL like tiebreakers). Then the leaders play a 4 team / two game conference championship, and the winner a 4 team / two game cross conference championship. Let the 3 division leaders who lost in the CCs play 6 cross conference non-championship bowls.

And the best thing... we could get rid of the polls and all the subjective BS...
If you don't like the 80 team thing, stay at 64, but do like soccer leagues do, and push Non-P4 teams up that perform well (from a feeder league like the AAC), and push teams down that suck.

In a 64 team league, Oregon St or Rutgers would be my elimination vote.

 

[ickythump1225]

I have to say UCF just blew it. Florida offered a 2 for 1 to them, something unheard of to play and it has gone no where. UCF knows they cant hang with the bigger schools except on an upset. Of course, if LSU lays an egg, I will have to eat my hat.

UCF doesn't want to have to play a team like Florida and risk a loss. It's better for their program to run through Charmin schedules every year and crown themselves faux national champions.

 

[NDRock]

I have to say UCF just blew it. Florida offered a 2 for 1 to them, something unheard of to play and it has gone no where. UCF knows they cant hang with the bigger schools except on an upset. Of course, if LSU lays an egg, I will have to eat my hat.

Wasn't it 2 games in Gainesville and 1 in Orlando? Why is that unheard of? Should be home and home. UCF has 3 top 10 finishes the last 6 years. Fuck the Gators. They've played one O.O.C. game outside the state of Florida since 1991 and that was a neutral site game in Texas. They're the pussies.

 

[Irish YJ]

Wasn't it 2 games in Gainesville and 1 in Orlando? Why is that unheard of? Should be home and home. UCF has 3 top 10 finishes the last 6 years. Fuck the Gators. They've played one O.O.C. game outside the state of Florida since 1991 and that was a neutral site game in Texas. They're the pussies.

It was a little brother 2-1 offer, to a team that's been ahead of them in the polls for a couple year straight. I'm with you. F the Gators. They have a good coach and momentum, but they also got bitch slapped by KY at home...

UCF doesn't want to have to play a team like Florida and risk a loss. It's better for their program to run through Charmin schedules every year and crown themselves faux national champions.

look at the past 5-10 years of UCF scheduling. they've played OSU, scUM, PSU, Stanford, SC, NC, GT and others off the top of my head. Not sure why they would be afraid of FL...

 

[RDU Irish]

Well, yeah. Playing a 13th game against Georgia or Florida every year tends to boost one's SoS. And 'Bama isn't just gifted that 13th game; they have to win the SEC W first to get there.



You guys are the ones making the case that the current system unfairly disadvantages deserving programs like UCF in favor of 'Bama. So you bear the burden of proof in demonstrating that. I used current stats to show that UCF doesn't deserve a playoff spot having played the 103rd ranked SoS. If you'd like to use the RSOS from 2016 or earlier to demonstrate which deserving program got left out to 'Bama's benefit, I'd love to see it.



The whole student-athlete/ semi-pro model thing is a separate debate entirely. UCF's had a great run over the last two years, but how are you going to justify giving them a shot over one of the current four without completely throwing out SoS? I'd love to see UCF play some real competition, and they just aren't going to find that in the AAC. As I said before, they ought to be lobbying hard for a move to the Big-12 if they want to compete for championships.

Oklahoma lost a game - anyone who loses a game is relying on the generosity of others from that point forward. Unless you are UCF - then there is nothing you can to do get in b/c you are a second class citizen. Your metrics should come in to play only after accounting for all of the undefeated teams out of your 129 team division. Besides, SoR is more important than SoS - why should losing to a good team be such a feather in your cap? That's the sort of knob gobbling that gets LSU/Florida/Miss St/KY ranked so high. UCF has the SoR but you are blind to that.

UCF is not going to be a perennial powerhouse and why are they required to be? THIS TEAM is the winner, THIS SEASON. How TF do you jump out of your second class conference and in to a P5 on such short notice to get your SoS up? It is just so intellectually dishonest to say "they should play a tougher schedule" - Well they beat Auburn last year and that is more than Alabama can say. It's a team sport, not a program sport.

If you are going to do nothing for the periodic Cinderella story you are selling out to the football factories. Just cut them out and stop pretending they are in your division. We don't need 8 teams to accommodate this - four is the most undefeated teams we have seen. If you get five - go off of SoS/SoR. Not that complicated. But all you "best of the best" eye testers would rather see Bama/UGA play 14 times in a season than give any other teams a shot at competing with their brand of football.

 

[RDU Irish]

Wasn't it 2 games in Gainesville and 1 in Orlando? Why is that unheard of? Should be home and home. UCF has 3 top 10 finishes the last 6 years. Fuck the Gators. They've played one O.O.C. game outside the state of Florida since 1991 and that was a neutral site game in Texas. They're the epitome of the SEC.

FIFY

I don't see how they are so much more deserving had they played Florida or not. Beat them and Florida is labeled garbage with their four loss season and fluke home win over LSU (who is also not that great) with nothing else to brag about. No way they sniff the Top 10 and UCFs SoS still sucks b/c beating #20 Florida is not good enough.

Or play Florida in 2017 where they went 4-7 or 2013 when they went 5-7 - they haven't lost less than 4 games since 2012.

 

[RDU Irish]

It was a little brother 2-1 offer, to a team that's been ahead of them in the polls for a couple year straight. I'm with you. F the Gators. They have a good coach and momentum, but they also got bitch slapped by KY at home...



look at the past 5-10 years of UCF scheduling. they've played OSU, scUM, PSU, Stanford, SC, NC, GT and others off the top of my head. Not sure why they would be afraid of FL...

And Mizzou at home for Homecoming 38-17 even worse than they lost to UGA - #10 in the nation folks!

 

[Irishize]

Oklahoma lost a game - anyone who loses a game is relying on the generosity of others from that point forward. Unless you are UCF - then there is nothing you can to do get in b/c you are a second class citizen. Your metrics should come in to play only after accounting for all of the undefeated teams out of your 129 team division. Besides, SoR is more important than SoS - why should losing to a good team be such a feather in your cap? That's the sort of knob gobbling that gets LSU/Florida/Miss St/KY ranked so high. UCF has the SoR but you are blind to that.

UCF is not going to be a perennial powerhouse and why are they required to be? THIS TEAM is the winner, THIS SEASON. How TF do you jump out of your second class conference and in to a P5 on such short notice to get your SoS up? It is just so intellectually dishonest to say "they should play a tougher schedule" - Well they beat Auburn last year and that is more than Alabama can say. It's a team sport, not a program sport.

If you are going to do nothing for the periodic Cinderella story you are selling out to the football factories. Just cut them out and stop pretending they are in your division. We don't need 8 teams to accommodate this - four is the most undefeated teams we have seen. If you get five - go off of SoS/SoR. Not that complicated. But all you "best of the best" eye testers would rather see Bama/UGA play 14 times in a season than give any other teams a shot at competing with their brand of football.

That’s fair. I think there are haters & then there are folks like me who remember how it was done in the past. Where would FSU be had Bowden not gone w/ the mantra: “Any team, anywhere, anytime”? The ‘Noles were an independent who rose to prominence in the late 70s/early 80s by barnstorming & facing anyone who had national respect. I believe they played Nebraska 3 yrs in a row at Lincoln. That’s unheard of in the entitled era we live in today.

I’m not saying UCF has to go Independent & start scheduling “Murderer’s Row” b/c I agree that it’s “this season” and won’t necessarily continue. Going unbeaten is extemely hard regardless of schedule. That being said, had UCF gotten in the final 4, I believe it sends a message that going undefeated trumps everything. We would soon see the majority of the SEC scheduling an even more favorable OOC w/ intent on going undefeated for the sake of being undefeated.

With scheduling, there’s a fine line. Bama has it perfected & why people don’t adopt a similar strategy is mind boggling (although Clemson seems to have followed suit). Bama will play a “name brand” program at a neutral site down south early in the season. Then they’ll reserve their first BYE before the LSU game. For the stretch run, they’ll expend their second BYE (FCS tomato can) before their rivalry match up in mid-November. This not only gives them time to prepare for their rival but it gives their key contributors a chance to rest/heal after a 10 game grind. The other added benefit is that it gives their backups some key reps in a live situation. There’s always one game where Bama truly gets challenged b/c as Holtz always opined (paraphrasing) “You can’t expect 18-22 y/o to get up for every single game...they are going to come out flat at least a few times...the hope is they are more talented to overcome”.

That’s why non-SEC fans hate that formula...it works. Regardless of what conference they’re in, they have to play 8 conference foes who are just as likely to spring an upset or inadvertently cause a key injury as any other P5 team. It’s also adding to the wear/tear on all players involved. For example, would Bama’s starters get more rest & less physicality from playing average teams in the SEC or the Sun Belt (or AAC)? I think average fans don’t factor in the physical toll of playing 9-10 P5 opponents over a 12 game season.

I hope UCF blasts LSU but my guess is anything other than the Knights blowing out the Tigers will result in a net push. IOW, if UCF wins a close one, it was b/c LSU was w/o key starters on defense who had declared for the draft. Or if LSU wins in any fashion it was b/c UCF was w/o their starting QB. I can guarantee that’s what the ranting on Twitter will be after those two teams face off. The only thing to avoid that & keep UCF momentum is a blowout of LSU...fair or not.

 

[RDU Irish]

That’s fair. I think there are haters & then there are folks like me who remember how it was done in the past. Where would FSU be had Bowden not gone w/ the mantra: “Any team, anywhere, anytime”? The ‘Noles were an independent who rose to prominence in the late 70s/early 80s by barnstorming & facing anyone who had national respect. I believe they played Nebraska 3 yrs in a row at Lincoln. That’s unheard of in the entitled era we live in today.

I’m not saying UCF has to go Independent & start scheduling “Murderer’s Row” b/c I agree that it’s “this season” and won’t necessarily continue. Going unbeaten is extemely hard regardless of schedule. That being said, had UCF gotten in the final 4, I believe it sends a message that going undefeated trumps everything. We would soon see the majority of the SEC scheduling an even more favorable OOC w/ intent on going undefeated for the sake of being undefeated.

With scheduling, there’s a fine line. Bama has it perfected & why people don’t adopt a similar strategy is mind boggling (although Clemson seems to have followed suit). Bama will play a “name brand” program at a neutral site down south early in the season. Then they’ll reserve their first BYE before the LSU game. For the stretch run, they’ll expend their second BYE (FCS tomato can) before their rivalry match up in mid-November. This not only gives them time to prepare for their rival but it gives their key contributors a chance to rest/heal after a 10 game grind. The other added benefit is that it gives their backups some key reps in a live situation. There’s always one game where Bama truly gets challenged b/c as Holtz always opined (paraphrasing) “You can’t expect 18-22 y/o to get up for every single game...they are going to come out flat at least a few times...the hope is they are more talented to overcome”.

That’s why non-SEC fans hate that formula...it works. Regardless of what conference they’re in, they have to play 8 conference foes who are just as likely to spring an upset or inadvertently cause a key injury as any other P5 team. It’s also adding to the wear/tear on all players involved. For example, would Bama’s starters get more rest & less physicality from playing average teams in the SEC or the Sun Belt (or AAC)? I think average fans don’t factor in the physical toll of playing 9-10 P5 opponents over a 12 game season.

I hope UCF blasts LSU but my guess is anything other than the Knights blowing out the Tigers will result in a net push. IOW, if UCF wins a close one, it was b/c LSU was w/o key starters on defense who had declared for the draft. Or if LSU wins in any fashion it was b/c UCF was w/o their starting QB. I can guarantee that’s what the ranting on Twitter will be after those two teams face off. The only thing to avoid that & keep UCF momentum is a blowout of LSU...fair or not.

Bolded is virtually impossible. 70% of the SEC has no illusions of competing for a championship. Outside of UGA, Auburn, Bama, Florida, LSU it isn't happening. Every other conference is the same - 3-4 top tier teams carrying the water with the other 10-12 teams tagging along for the ride. Difference being - if Illinios/Indiana/Rutgers/Vandy/Kentucky/So Car/Oregon State/Wake Forest/GT/Iowa State/Kansas/Northwestern/ETC caught lightning in a bottle they would be in the playoffs as an undefeated P5 champion. No way an undefeated P5 is left out. The fact Rutgers has a path to the playoffs at the beginning of the season and 65 non-P5 teams do not is kind of pathetic and disingenuous.

I stated previously - HUGE difference between "getting rich" and "staying rich". Completely different strategies as you point out. Once you get on top, you get every benefit of the doubt and it makes no sense to schedule any harder than you absolutely have to. OSU/BAMA/Clemson - weak sauce scheduling for what is within their power. SEC master schedule provides a non-conference open week the week before rivalry week. Built in tune up scrimmage if you so choose and 90% of the SEC so chooses. The conference is complicit in ducking competition.

If the rest of the SEC were so damn good they would actually upset their top tier at a much higher percentage. Coattail SEC toughness is the biggest joke in CFB.

 

[Blaise]

With some of those scenerios where there are no auto bids. Michigan played Ohio St and safe to say MI would of been safe for the top 8 even with the loss..

Would they rest players because why play 1 more game next week against NW and risk getting kids hurt before the playoffs. You rest your banged up players and if u lose, oh well, you are in the playoffs

 

[stlnd01]

Completely different strategies as you point out. Once you get on top, you get every benefit of the doubt and it makes no sense to schedule any harder than you absolutely have to. OSU/BAMA/Clemson - weak sauce scheduling for what is within their power. SEC master schedule provides a non-conference open week the week before rivalry week. Built in tune up scrimmage if you so choose and 90% of the SEC so chooses. The conference is complicit in ducking competition.

Not to defend Ohio State, but they played a home-and-home with Oklahoma in 2016 and '17 (and their loss to Oklahoma kept them out of the playoff last year). And TCU this year (not their fault TCU was a turd this season).
Clemson went to A&M this year, played Auburn last year, and always plays South Carolina.
Alabama routinely opens with a neutral-site game against a power team (again, not their fault Louisville was a dog this year). Played Florida State last year and USC the year before that.
Georgia played us last year and next year.
I completely agree the SEC vs FCS bye week in November is a joke. But give these guys a little credit. They are playing at least one big-time non-conference opponent early, because it helps their resume. My fear is that an eight-team playoff and auto-bid reduces their incentive to do so.

 

[IrishLax]

The problem with scheduling is the bottom half SEC teams who generally play no one. There has never been a problem with how to the top SEC teams... besides the Florida Gators... make their schedules. And with Florida, their excuse is that they have a standing game with FSU.

Bama, Georgia, LSU, etc. often schedule a very big OOC game. It's Mississippi State playing Kansas State and 3 cream puffs that is a problem... in the last 5 years their OOC slate has been, KSU, BYU x2 and then 17 cupcakes. Their OOC schedule in 2014 was Southern Miss, UAB, South Alabama, and Tennessee-Martin... and they debuted as #1 in the CFP rankings. When you have no data points outside of your own conference, it is impossible to know how good you actually are.

 

[Irish YJ]

Jim Delaney (Big 10 commish) went on record today saying they are ready to talk expansion. Bowlsby (Big12) had similar sentiments, but Delaney's coming out and going on record is pretty significant.

8 gonna happen.

 

[Circa]

Jim Delaney (Big 10 commish) went on record today saying they are ready to talk expansion. Bowlsby (Big12) had similar sentiments, but Delaney's coming out and going on record is pretty significant.

8 gonna happen.

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[MNIrishman]

The problem with scheduling is the bottom half SEC teams who generally play no one. There has never been a problem with how to the top SEC teams... besides the Florida Gators... make their schedules. And with Florida, their excuse is that they have a standing game with FSU.

Bama, Georgia, LSU, etc. often schedule a very big OOC game. It's Mississippi State playing Kansas State and 3 cream puffs that is a problem... in the last 5 years their OOC slate has been, KSU, BYU x2 and then 17 cupcakes. Their OOC schedule in 2014 was Southern Miss, UAB, South Alabama, and Tennessee-Martin... and they debuted as #1 in the CFP rankings. When you have no data points outside of your own conference, it is impossible to know how good you actually are.

I argued that MsSt was extremely overrated that year and NDinLA gave me a verbal bodyslam.

 

[Irish YJ]

I argued that MsSt was extremely overrated that year and NDinLA gave me a verbal bodyslam.

There were completely awesome that year
on paper preseason

 

[Irishize]

Jim Delaney (Big 10 commish) went on record today saying they are ready to talk expansion. Bowlsby (Big12) had similar sentiments, but Delaney's coming out and going on record is pretty significant.

8 gonna happen.

8 will definitely happen but know that every P5 commissioner is going to insist their conference has a guaranteed entrant every year. That means conference champion will get an auto bid. Hopefully that will lead to the dissolution of divisions so conferences can at least ensure the two best teams in each conference play for the conference crown.

 

[Irish YJ]

8 will definitely happen but know that every P5 commissioner is going to insist their conference has a guaranteed entrant every year. That means conference champion will get an auto bid. Hopefully that will lead to the dissolution of divisions so conferences can at least ensure the two best teams in each conference play for the conference crown.

I'm perfectly fine with auto bids.

I don't think they will dissolve divisions though. The CC become a defacto round one for the ten teams, and I think they'll be OK with that, and a few wild cards to catch teams like UGA.

I do think we'll see some conference realignment though. I think Auburn and Missouri will swap. I think the Big Ten will look at making some changes. The PAC is bleeding right now, so they need to do something but not sure what it is. The ACC is fine if FSU and Miami would step back up (look out for GT over the next 3-5 years). The Big12 knows they need to grow, they're just getting pimped by TX and OK right now (but it will happen).

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

8 will definitely happen but know that every P5 commissioner is going to insist their conference has a guaranteed entrant every year. That means conference champion will get an auto bid. Hopefully that will lead to the dissolution of divisions so conferences can at least ensure the two best teams in each conference play for the conference crown.

That or we give every division an autobid but we don't stipulate it must be the conference championship. A single game shouldn't carry that weight. The committee would still have the ability to choose the best team from the conference.

I still like the idea of no autobids but 6 guaranteed p5 spots. Then if a team or two sneaks in from the non-P5 conferences, they've earned it but that won't gain traction with the powers that be.

 

[stlnd01]

That or we give every division an autobid but we don't stipulate it must be the conference championship. A single game shouldn't carry that weight. The committee would still have the ability to choose the best team from the conference.

I think you mean conference, but that's an interesting idea. Would take care of the inevitable "Pitt upsets Clemson" scenario. Would also make the conference championship games completely irrelevant (which indirectly helps us by taking away the "13th Data Point" argument). Honestly, aside from the SEC, I don't think anyone would really miss them.

As YJ said, if you're going to give the winner of the CCG an autobid, you have to fix the divisional imbalance in some conferences, but that's hard to do because programs ebb and flow so much. Saying "best team goes" might be an easier way.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think you mean conference, but that's an interesting idea. Would take care of the inevitable "Pitt upsets Clemson" scenario. Would also make the conference championship games completely irrelevant (which indirectly helps us by taking away the "13th Data Point" argument). Honestly, aside from the SEC, I don't think anyone would really miss them.

As YJ said, if you're going to give the winner of the CCG an autobid, you have to fix the divisional imbalance in some conferences, but that's hard to do because programs ebb and flow so much. Saying "best team goes" might be an easier way.

Wouldn't conferences have incentive for their top dog to tank the CCG so they get the autobid for the crappy team who wins and an at large for the de facto eye test champion?

 

[RDU Irish]

The problem with scheduling is the bottom half SEC teams who generally play no one. There has never been a problem with how to the top SEC teams... besides the Florida Gators... make their schedules. And with Florida, their excuse is that they have a standing game with FSU.

Bama, Georgia, LSU, etc. often schedule a very big OOC game. It's Mississippi State playing Kansas State and 3 cream puffs that is a problem... in the last 5 years their OOC slate has been, KSU, BYU x2 and then 17 cupcakes. Their OOC schedule in 2014 was Southern Miss, UAB, South Alabama, and Tennessee-Martin... and they debuted as #1 in the CFP rankings. When you have no data points outside of your own conference, it is impossible to know how good you actually are.

Don't confuse a few big OOC games with being the norm.
UGA does have a decent rivalry in GT - we can all appreciate the fun of playing an option team and the challenges therein. Their LSU non-division rivalry is one of the tougher draws as well. I will also give them credit for hitting the road in these OOC games, not just neutral sites.

2019 Murray State, Arkansas State, ND, GT (@ Vandy in the opener and open date after ND, hmmm)
UGA 2018 OOC - Austin Peay, Mid Tenn, Umass warm up for GT before the CCG.
2017 App State, ND, Samford (they sandwiched us b/w two cupcakes), GT
2016 UNC, Nicholls, UL, GT (L)
2015 ULM, Southern, GA Southern, GT - how bold!
2014 Clemson, Troy, Charleston Southern, GT(L) (probably scheduled series before Clemson was good)
2013 @Clemson (L), North Texas, App State, GT
2012 Buffalo, Florida Atlantic, GA Southern, GT
2011 Boise State (L), Coastal Carolina, NM State, GT
2010 UL, Colorado (L), Idaho State, GT (this 6-6 team lost to UCF in a bowl to finish 6-7, imagine our despair if we did the same!)
2009 OKST (L), ASU, Tenn Tech, GT
2008 GA Southern, Central Michigan, ASU, GT (L) - part of me wants to bold this but seriously it's ASU

So about half the time booking an early "big" match-up is enough to make intelligent people like Lax give them the benefit of the doubt. By the same token, we should schedule USC and Stanford every other year with maybe Chicago State coming to ND in the off years. Everyone would just assume we played a tough game because it happens often enough for lazy people to make assumptions.

6 of 12 have OOC worth mentioning. But all people think is "remember the Clemson series" or "wow that ND series was great" - nevermind staying south of the Mason Dixon line for 50 years.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Wouldn't conferences have incentive for their top dog to tank the CCG so they get the autobid for the crappy team who wins and an at large for the de facto eye test champion?

Lol, if you think conferences are ringing up teams and saying "We need you to lose next Saturday", then I suppose it's a reasonable fear?

I think it's the best option available. The championship game serves as another strong data point but it won't catapult someone in nor will it eliminate a great team.

Then hopefully as the CCGs become devalued, they go the way of the dodo. ND preserves it's independence and marches to some national titles over the next decade.

 

[RDU Irish]

Lol, if you think conferences are ringing up teams and saying "We need you to lose next Saturday", then I suppose it's a reasonable fear?

I think it's the best option available. The championship game serves as another strong data point but it won't catapult someone in nor will it eliminate a great team.

Then hopefully as the CCGs become devalued, they go the way of the dodo. ND preserves it's independence and marches to some national titles over the next decade.

Motivation delta b/w both teams and a ref crew that is loyal to their conference - tinfoil hats have been fashioned out of a lot less than this.

I think a lot of people here underestimate the conferences and their motivation. I have a hard time imagining a conference not wanting to crown a champion - in football with more than 10 teams in a conference the only way to make this undisputed is through a CCG. Half of the teams have no delusions of even making the playoff on their own, a back door auto bid as conference champ is the only pipe-dream and even that they don't care about that much in reality. What they want is their $$$$ - more teams more $$$$. Get two in for the conference and they get 2x the $$$ for everybody. What else would Rutgers or Indiana or Kansas or Vandy, etc really care about?

 

[NDRock]

Motivation delta b/w both teams and a ref crew that is loyal to their conference - tinfoil hats have been fashioned out of a lot less than this.

I think a lot of people here underestimate the conferences and their motivation. I have a hard time imagining a conference not wanting to crown a champion - in football with more than 10 teams in a conference the only way to make this undisputed is through a CCG. Half of the teams have no delusions of even making the playoff on their own, a back door auto bid as conference champ is the only pipe-dream and even that they don't care about that much in reality. What they want is their $$$$ - more teams more $$$$. Get two in for the conference and they get 2x the $$$ for everybody. What else would Rutgers or Indiana or Kansas or Vandy, etc really care about?

It's possible but the SEC could have done that this year with Georgian and Bama.

 

[RDU Irish]

It's possible but the SEC could have done that this year with Georgian and Bama.

Look at the other conferences and how pissy they get when they don't make the playoffs. Start with the Pac12, who knows they suck. They would love a participation trophy and $$$ to spread from the playoffs without needing to field an elite team. Can't rely on USC or Oregon like days of old when they signed up for this. B1G(ot) has had their crown jewel snubbed more than once and nobody else looks like they can make a legit run at an elite team. All of them know they can provide a 5-10 level team reliably, but its just a bit too crowded at the top.

There is no way this does not end up being 5 guaranteed spots for the P5 - whether that is CCG decided or top ranked team from the conference, they will get their stake. The SEC will like what they see as a damn near guaranty of 2 teams and possibly 3 for their conference. The conferences are highly motivated to expand which is only brought to light when ND steals 1/4th of their pot (I know that is not exactly how it works but you get the point).

Alabama will hate it - they don't want to play three games in a row against top tier talent. Cuts their title odds by half really. Clemson probably hate it too - they already like their path to playoffs so why would they want to lower their odds of going all the way?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Motivation delta b/w both teams and a ref crew that is loyal to their conference - tinfoil hats have been fashioned out of a lot less than this.

I think a lot of people here underestimate the conferences and their motivation. I have a hard time imagining a conference not wanting to crown a champion - in football with more than 10 teams in a conference the only way to make this undisputed is through a CCG. Half of the teams have no delusions of even making the playoff on their own, a back door auto bid as conference champ is the only pipe-dream and even that they don't care about that much in reality. What they want is their $$$$ - more teams more $$$$. Get two in for the conference and they get 2x the $$$ for everybody. What else would Rutgers or Indiana or Kansas or Vandy, etc really care about?

You don't compromise the sport. They would be up against a litany of charges if this every happened and came to light. I think it's silly to consider and I'm not big into tinfoil hats.

I think you'd have to promote conference crossover games a lot more so we can have an adequate ranking of conferences. I also think SOS should reign supreme.

There may be different reasons to not go with my suggestion but the idea that conferences would be pullign strings throughout a season to try and jam as many of their teams into the playoffs is on my "unlikely" list.

 

[NDRock]

Look at the other conferences and how pissy they get when they don't make the playoffs. Start with the Pac12, who knows they suck. They would love a participation trophy and $$$ to spread from the playoffs without needing to field an elite team. Can't rely on USC or Oregon like days of old when they signed up for this. B1G(ot) has had their crown jewel snubbed more than once and nobody else looks like they can make a legit run at an elite team. All of them know they can provide a 5-10 level team reliably, but its just a bit too crowded at the top.

There is no way this does not end up being 5 guaranteed spots for the P5 - whether that is CCG decided or top ranked team from the conference, they will get their stake. The SEC will like what they see as a damn near guaranty of 2 teams and possibly 3 for their conference. The conferences are highly motivated to expand which is only brought to light when ND steals 1/4th of their pot (I know that is not exactly how it works but you get the point).

Alabama will hate it - they don't want to play three games in a row against top tier talent. Cuts their title odds by half really. Clemson probably hate it too - they already like their path to playoffs so why would they want to lower their odds of going all the way?

I understand why conferences would be motivated to expand to 8 to get one of their teams guaranteed, I just don't see a scenario where they want their best team to lose for the possibility of a 2nd team getting in. First, you risk your best team not being one of the at-large bids. You would also have your best team probably go on the road in the first round and make it that much tougher to win. Also, I'm sure there will be a provision to keep some 8-4 team from making it, even if they win the CCG. I could see any conference champion having to be a top 12 team (or something similar).