The case for an 8 Team Playoff

[BobbyMac]

I've always thought it was the right format. Anytime a team that could win the title is not in the playoff, it proves the need for it. And as a basketball guy, the more the merrier! More games, more beer, more fun!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EXCLUSIVE: Major college football power brokers like Bob Bowlsby, Barry Alvarez and Gordon Gee tell <a href="https://twitter.com/TheAthleticCFB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheAthleticCFB</a> that it's time to start talking about an eight-team playoff. As soon as 2020? It's possible: <a href="https://t.co/80Iaar3BrH">https://t.co/80Iaar3BrH</a></p>— Nicole Auerbach (@NicoleAuerbach) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1072869606744707073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 12, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IrishLion]

All it took was Notre Dame making the playoff one time, and now the expansion is coming.

On one hand, I think it's hilarious that there have been so many offshoots of differing reactions to ND making the field, and I think people all over the country are being little bitches.

On the other, I'm in favor of 8 teams, because ND will make it at 11-1 every time, basically, and some years might even sneak in at 10-2.

 

[BabyIrish]

I think eliminating CCG's, and having the first round the weekend after Thanksgiving makes the most sense. Winners move on to the semi's and beyond, losers go to traditional ny6 bowl games.

I'd like to say p5 regular season champs should get in automatically, but the Pac-12 made a strong case against that this season. So I'm not sure there should be automatic bids with three at large's or just go with the top 8 by committee regardless of what happens with conference regular season champions.

Regular season champ model would also cause some major conference re-structuring, which might be hard to do.

 

[ACamp1900]

We are frogs in the pot with this playoff bs,... and we won’t process all the damage done until it’s too late to go back..,

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

We are frogs in the pot with this playoff bs,... and we won’t process all the damage done until it’s too late to go back..,

Man, I am with you. I think 8 kills the regular season in a way that 4 did not.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

We are frogs in the pot with this playoff bs,... and we won’t process all the damage done until it’s too late to go back..,

Kinda like what we did with healthcare...and yes it is BS

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

So, does strength of schedule / regular season record anymore?

Feel like the "importance" of each game just took an even bigger hit.

 

[IrishLion]

Man, I am with you. I think 8 kills the regular season in a way that 4 did not.

So, does strength of schedule / regular season record anymore?

Feel like the "importance" of each game just took an even bigger hit.

I think 8 is the limit that should keep the regular season at it's current level of importance.

There are basically 7 teams with good arguments this year, and an 8th if it weren't for an injury.

If the current top 8 made up the playoff field, would you think that this past regular season hadn't meant anything?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I think 8 is the limit that should keep the regular season at it's current level of importance.

There are basically 7 teams with good arguments this year, and an 8th if it weren't for an injury.

If the current top 8 made up the playoff field, would you think that this past regular season hadn't meant anything?

It means a school like UCF gets in...and Michigan lol... That's a joke for Michigan to be mentioned in the playoffs.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I think 8 is the limit that should keep the regular season at it's current level of importance.

There are basically 7 teams with good arguments this year, and an 8th if it weren't for an injury.

If the current top 8 made up the playoff field, would you think that this past regular season hadn't meant anything?

There would be zero risk of a single loss eliminating a power 5 team. That would be a huge change.

EDIT: Heck the number of power 5 teams with two losses who get excluded this year is zero. The great drama of CFB (IMO) is the consequences that come from a single loss and the massive importance of an upset.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

There would be zero risk of a single loss eliminating a power 5 team. That would be a huge change.

Exactly, a team like Alabama doesn't have to worry about losing two games with their joke schedule. So the "push for perfection" doesn't matter. (also, Alabama would still probably make it 10/10 times with 2 losses lol)

 

[IrishLion]

It means a school like UCF gets in...and Michigan lol... That's a joke for Michigan to be mentioned in the playoffs.

There would be zero risk of a single loss eliminating a power 5 team. That would be a huge change.

EDIT: Heck the number of power 5 teams with two losses who get excluded this year is zero. The great drama of CFB (IMO) is the consequences that come from a single loss and the massive importance of an upset.

I like the current system, but it left two teams out that had really good arguments, IMO, and that's how it's been almost every year, where the top 6 all had really good arguments.

However, a 6-team playoff would be totally unfair based on how valuable a bye would be for the top two seeds, so it's 4 or 8... and I don't think 8 takes anything more away than the 4-team system has, but that's just IMO.

 

[wizards8507]

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I like the current system, but it left two teams out that had really good arguments, IMO, and that's how it's been almost every year, where the top 6 all had really good arguments.

However, a 6-team playoff would be totally unfair based on how valuable a bye would be for the top two seeds, so it's 4 or 8... and I don't think 8 takes anything more away than the 4-team system has, but that's just IMO.

People enjoy different aspects. Personally, I have very vivid memories of 2012 and watching Alabama lose to Texas A&M while I was drinking in an airport bar; and then the night that Kansas State and Oregon both lost. Maybe the trade is worth it but you lose those things in the bargain. With 8 teams there would be no reason to care unless you're one of those fan bases.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Additonally, in case anyone was wondering, I was/am on team "no playoffs".

I loved the importance of each game, the strength of schedule, etc. I feel like we're heading down the "lets give everyone a fair shot" route, which is very symbolic of our current society in sports/population in general... Gone are the days of "dealing with it". And now we have to coddle to the masses.

 

[IrishLion]

Additonally, in case anyone was wondering, I was/am on team "no playoffs".

I loved the importance of each game, the strength of schedule, etc. I feel like we're heading down the "lets give everyone a fair shot" route, which is very symbolic of our current society in sports/population in general... Gone are the days of "dealing with it". And now we have to coddle to the masses.

ND would've been left out of a shot for the title this year under the old system...

 

[wizards8507]

ND would've been left out of a shot for the title this year under the old system...

The BCS NCG was bullshit too. Go back to the old old system. Traditional bowl affiliations and a final poll.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

ND would've been left out of a shot for the title this year under the old system...

And we would have to deal with it. I'm aware the playoff is "good for us" but it also makes things diluted, especially 8 teams.

Also, we have made it with the old model as well...

 

[IrishLion]

The BCS NCG was bullshit too. Go back to the old old system. Traditional bowl affiliations and a final poll.

Do you think "final poll" could work these days? I have my doubts... the coaches already have no honor when they fill out their polls, and that would just get worse if the system changed again, so we'd be relying on the AP poll and the computers... and most of the computers value scUM over ND right this instant. Don't like that, either.

 

[phork]

I am for 4 teams. If you aren't elite then an 8th seed isn't going to help. And if it goes 8 I am FULL ON against Conference Champ Auto Bid. See PAC12, or if Pitt beat Clemson or NW beat OSU.

I think 4 is the best number, despite it more than likely means ND joins a conference.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I am for 4 teams. If you aren't elite then an 8th seed isn't going to help. And if it goes 8 I am FULL ON against Conference Champ Auto Bid. See PAC12, or if Pitt beat Clemson or NW beat OSU.

I think 4 is the best number, despite it more than likely means ND joins a conference.

Um...UMBC?

WINTER MADNESSSSSS - i can hear the promos now...

 

[IrishLax]

You can't half ass a playoff system. You either need to do what Wiz said... have no "system" at all and just accept that CFB is going to be a flawed beauty pageant... or you need to go all in.

Going all in means a minimum of 8 teams. For those that think regular season games won't matter in that scenario that's not true... if anything, it makes more of them matter for more teams. People forget how hard it is for ND to make it in with a single loss, and accordingly that means something like losing to Georgia in Week 2 of next year could make the remaining 10 games "not matter" towards competing for a title in the current system. How absurd is that?

Remember that in '15, ND was likely to get left out at 11-1 despite an elite SOS and their only loss coming on a failed 2 point conversion at #1 Clemson... they would've been outside looking in at 11-1 Oklahoma, 12-1 Michigan State, 12-1 Bama, and 13-0 Clemson even if BVG hadn't blown it in the last 30 seconds against Stanford.

Now, I have no problem with that if it's the traditional CFB beauty pageant where the polls crown a "national champ" because ND had their shot at Clemson and they missed. But in any kind of "playoff" system it's f*cking absurd that you could play a schedule as hard as ND's, stub your toe only once at the #1 team by the narrowest of margins, and get left out. That's why if you're going to do playoffs they need to be expanded. Either do them all the way or don't do them at all.

Most importantly though, they need to scrap the committee. They are pointless and only serve the purpose of being potentially corruptible with their biases.

 

[ACamp1900]

ND would've been left out of a shot for the title this year under the old system...

Pre BCS we’d be playing OU and a win would potentially get us a shared natty... I was a huge plus one guy. Play the bowls as they were pre BCS (when they mattered). Retain the regionality, the history and everything that made cfb special to begin with... and at the end of the Bowl season if it’s not decided, play one more... not hard, but people in charge saw dollar signs and fans saw “PLAYOFFS!!!” As if default playoffs are ever a good way to decide a real champion...

 

[ACamp1900]

The BCS NCG was bullshit too. Go back to the old old system. Traditional bowl affiliations and a final poll.

This guy gets it. I'm telling you, this will get out of hand, go to a 16 team or more cluster fuck that ruins EVERYTHING we love about cfb in the first place and then we will look around like, "Oh,... oops... damn."

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Also, why do (some) people act like 8 teams is going to fix the issues of "teams being left out"?

Now we'll have to listen to #9, 10, 11, etc bitch about how they should be #8...

Hell, NCAA basketball has ~300 teams in their tournament and "bubble teams" still bitch about being left out.

 

[Luckylucci]

You can't half ass a playoff system. You either need to do what Wiz said... have no "system" at all and just accept that CFB is going to be a flawed beauty pageant... or you need to go all in.

Going all in means a minimum of 8 teams. For those that think regular season games won't matter in that scenario that's not true... if anything, it makes more of them matter for more teams. People forget how hard it is for ND to make it in with a single loss, and accordingly that means something like losing to Georgia in Week 2 of next year could make the remaining 10 games "not matter" towards competing for a title in the current system. How absurd is that?

Remember that in '15, ND was likely to get left out at 11-1 despite an elite SOS and their only loss coming on a failed 2 point conversion at #1 Clemson... they would've been outside looking in at 11-1 Oklahoma, 12-1 Michigan State, 12-1 Bama, and 13-0 Clemson even if BVG hadn't blown it in the last 30 seconds against Stanford.

Now, I have no problem with that if it's the traditional CFB beauty pageant where the polls crown a "national champ" because ND had their shot at Clemson and they missed. But in any kind of "playoff" system it's f*cking absurd that you could play a schedule as hard as ND's, stub your toe only once at the #1 team by the narrowest of margins, and get left out. That's why if you're going to do playoffs they need to be expanded. Either do them all the way or don't do them at all.

Most importantly though, they need to scrap the committee. They are pointless and only serve the purpose of being potentially corruptible with their biases.

Yea, if we are going to do playoffs, it should be 8 over 4. But you raised an even better point and that is the bolded. Not sure how you can have AD's, long time former coaches, etc. and not think there is going to be extreme bias.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

We should let Nate Silver come up with some almighty algorithm to tell us how bad we are....

 

[IrishLion]

Most importantly though, they need to scrap the committee. They are pointless and only serve the purpose of being potentially corruptible with their biases.

Yea, if we are going to do playoffs, it should be 8 over 4. But you raised an even better point and that is the bolded. Not sure how you can have AD's, long time former coaches, etc. and not think there is going to be extreme bias.

Committee members supposedly "recuse" themselves when discussion turns to teams they have been connected to, or for conference teams that they oversee, but that is ridiculous in and of itself, because they all have several connections spanning multiple conferences, so it leaves pretty significant and overlapping gaps in the discussion.

That, and the recusals don't eliminate the fact that all of the power players in that room have axes to grind with teams that they flat out don't like.

 

[BobbyMac]

Also, why do (some) people act like 8 teams is going to fix the issues of "teams being left out"?

Now we'll have to listen to #9, 10, 11, etc bitch about how they should be #8...

Hell, NCAA basketball has ~300 teams in their tournament and "bubble teams" still bitch about being left out.

Let #9 bitch all they want. I've yet to see a #9 team good enough to win the NC. #5 & #6 are good enough this year.

 

[IrishLion]

Let #9 bitch all they want. I've yet to see a #9 team good enough to win the NC. #5 & #6 are good enough this year.

People might rag on it, but I think #7 would be good enough if they had better offensive play calling (and if their kryptonite, pOSU, got eliminated before they had to match up).