Style points.....my take. (here we go)

[We_Are_ND]

It's funny how long we have came isn't in? From joining this board in '06 and going through the ups and downs, to where we are now. I am one to say, I can't believe we are 10-0. With the schedule at the beginning of the season, if you could tell me we would be 10-0 on the outside looking in, I would take it in a heartbeat.

Now all of a sudden the atmosphere of the board has changed. "Yeah, we are 10-0, but Kelly isn't calling the game to win over the pollsters."

You're right. All of you are right. He isn't calling the game that way. He is calling the game to WIN. Every game he is calling, it is the best way, with the players he has available to WIN. If we are up on Boston College because of ball control and running, then he is gonna keep it that way.

The only way to change the culture of ND football is to WIN. To make ND a powerhouse again, and to have us be considered as an elite college football team, is to WIN.

This isn't a one year thing. This is returning Notre Dame to glory, (which has been so overused by the media and ourselves as fans. )

Consistency is the key. Although being consistent in ourselves as a football team may not lead us to being number 1 or 2 in the polls, it is the best way for our program to return to greatness.

We still got some weeks left of college football too. Lesssss GO!!!!

 

[Pachuco]

Nicely put, man.

It snowed this week where I live, and watching the game last night brought back memories of playing football with the neighborhood gang.

At halftime, I looked outside at the snow on the ground and saw no kids playing late, but I remembered the times when my parents would have to drag me in. I used to pretend I was Lee Becton running when I'd break a tackle, or Bettis when I couldn't be brought down. On defense, I would picture myself as Bobby Taylor swooping in for the interception. I didn't need all the stats to simulate the experience. I just wanted to play. Football was fun, and Notre Dame was a big source of inspiration.

Today's obsession with every aspect of the sport has become a juggernaut of a force that has spectators, both professional and amateur, arguing, comparing/contrasting, dissecting and analyzing every second captured. We all get mixed up in it and there isn't anything inherently wrong with the mix up. Yet sometimes, it's nice to just step back and experience the game like the kid that experienced it. Enjoy and appreciate it. Support the team with the hope that the best will happen if they just keep on fighting.

Unfortunately, this is often called "homerism" now. I guess I just miss those days when the fun wasn't skewed by worry so much. But seeing Notre Dame, this generation of young men wearing the blue & gold, navigating the pressure to perform and finding ways to win has me wanting to throw the football around again, and believe that the spirit of belief never died. That's the champion that ND inspired me to strive to be as a kid, and the reason to enjoy this special season now, however the chips may fall in the end.

 

[WaveDomer]

Good post. ND is who ND is this year: hard defense and hard running, for the most part. The games ND has blown out have been blown out largely through the run game. Golson is certainly improving and will likely air it out more, but Kelly is going to do whatever he needs to do to win. Stick with the style that brought you here. Just because Cincy was a team that scored at a rapid pace doesn't mean ND will be that. Just win.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Someone mentioned this a few weeks ago and I wished I rep'd them.
They said, "At the beginning of the season with our schedule what is harder to believe? ND is undefeated or ND is undefeated and not ranked number 1?"

This was the murder's row of schedules... I predicted 10 wins, but hell, I pick the Jets to win the Super Bowl the past 27 years.
To not be in the Championship game if they win out is just ****ing criminal!

 

[Patulski]

Consistency is the key. Although being consistent in ourselves as a football team may not lead us to being number 1 or 2 in the polls, it is the best way for our program to return to greatness.!

We were not consistent executing our offensive last night. We were inconsistent. Had we been consistent it would have been 35-6 and we'd have our style points and won.

Otherwise, I agree with your post. It is a process. Hopefully next year and going forward our offense will be as consistently good as our defense is this year.

 

[EifertPower]

I wish i could find the post or thread back before the season started where a lot of people thought that with our schedule, an 11-1 Notre Dame team would certainly be in the national title game so long as our one loss wasn't to USC.

 

[Old Man Mike]

A Fictional Conversation between coaches:

Conversation #1 [the opponents]:
HC: we've got Notre Dame coming up; how do we beat them?
DC: as usual, coach, with any of these teams, we can't let them run.
HC: what's your plan?
DC: stack the box pretty much.
HC: what about their passing?
DC: that TE is the only really consistent threat. Some jamming at the line, and a double over the top.
HC: doesn't that make us vulnerable to one-on-ones with wideouts?
DC: only for shorter passes; the young QB can't throw the long ball accurately. We're in pretty good odds there.
HC: hmmm... OK... now how do we score?
OC: that's easier said than done. Nobody's scored.
HC: how about a more productive remark?
OC: OK. What you have to do is take advantage of their defensive philosophy.
HC: specifically?
OC: They don't give you much running --- you almost have to be lucky there. But they DO give you short passing wide and in front of the safeties.
HC: we have to dink and dunk them?
OC: yes. PATIENTLY. And precisely. We'll get down the field that way. Then, REAL tough sledding in the red zone.
HC: so.....
OC: what we have to do is keep them in their territory and wait for offensive mistakes. If we get enough short fields, we'll get some scores.
HC: OK. That's a plan.

Conversation #2 [us]:
HC: Bob, what's the plan?
DC: well, Brian, we should keep the same strategies.
HC: the bend-don't-break is putting a lot of stress on the offense. We have to go long field almost all the time. Tough on Everett and the line to be that precise that long.
DC: I know. Wish I could change it up, but we're only really vulnerable to deep shots. I think that we've got to keep safety conservative play to prevent that.
HC: Matthias not ready yet?
DC: Yes, that's it. He's getting there, but we can't afford two or more successful bombs per game, and I worry about that... a lot.
HC: can Zeke help more?
DC: not really. He's been great on on-field coaching, but he hasn't the closing speed of Harrison to clean up the mistakes.
HC: so you think we're still looking at letting them have some long drives, shutting them out in close, and the offense scoring enough to win?
DC: Brian, I think that's the formula, and the absolute safest way of us controlling the game.
HC: It's not pretty, Bob.
DC: yep. BUT effective.
HC: then that's who we are.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm happy overall with the ground and pound, and bend but don't break. This may work (from a poll perspective) next year when we start in the top 5. But reality is reality. This year we started at the back of the race. Sh..ing the bed at home against Pitt, and a very pedestrian showing over a horrible BC team does not help with voters. At the end of the day, we have to count on others to lose. IMO, not controlling your own destiny sucks.

All that said, I'm happy to go undefeated, play in, and win a BCS bowl, own the recruiting trail, and start next season in the top 5 positioned for a NC game. If however we desire a shot this year, and want to do EVERYTHING we can to put ND in the conversation, style points are part of that equation. Just reality.

Again, happy regardless, as this is just as much about the next 10 years as it is this year. I predicted 10-2, possibly 11-1 at the beginning of the season. Most called me crazy. So right now, not frustrated, not unhappy, just sitting back and enjoying the ride. Still alot of FB to be played and anything can happen.

 

[kmoose]

A Fictional Conversation between coaches:

Conversation #1 [the opponents]:
HC: we've got Notre Dame coming up; how do we beat them?
DC: as usual, coach, with any of these teams, we can't let them run.
HC: what's your plan?
DC: stack the box pretty much.
HC: what about their passing?
DC: that TE is the only really consistent threat. Some jamming at the line, and a double over the top.
HC: doesn't that make us vulnerable to one-on-ones with wideouts?
DC: only for shorter passes; the young QB can't throw the long ball accurately. We're in pretty good odds there.
HC: hmmm... OK... now how do we score?
OC: We don't. Derek Jeter couldn't score on these guys. Heck, Joe Namath in his prime probably couldn't score on them.
HC: how about a more productive remark?
OC: OK. What you have to do is take advantage of their defensive philosophy.
HC: specifically?
OC: They don't give you much running --- you almost have to be lucky there. But they DO give you short passing wide and in front of the safeties.
HC: we have to dink and dunk them?
OC: yes. PATIENTLY. And precisely. We'll get down the field that way. Then, REAL tough sledding in the red zone.
HC: so.....
OC: what we have to do is keep them in their territory and wait for offensive mistakes. If we get enough short fields, we'll get some scores.
HC: OK. That's a plan.

Conversation #2 [us]:
HC: Bob, what's the plan?
DC: well, Brian, we should keep the same strategies.
HC: the bend-don't-break is putting a lot of stress on the offense. We have to go long field almost all the time. Tough on Everett and the line to be that precise that long.
DC: I know. Wish I could change it up, but we're only really vulnerable to deep shots. I think that we've got to keep safety conservative play to prevent that.
HC: Matthias not ready yet?
DC: Yes, that's it. He's getting there, but we can't afford two or more successful bombs per game, and I worry about that... a lot.
HC: can Zeke help more?
DC: not really. He's been great on on-field coaching, but he hasn't the closing speed of Harrison to clean up the mistakes.
HC: so you think we're still looking at letting them have some long drives, shutting them out in close, and the offense scoring enough to win?
DC: Brian, I think that's the formula, and the absolute safest way of us controlling the game.
HC: It's not pretty, Bob.
DC: yep. BUT effective.
HC: then that's who we are.

Fixed it for ya, Mike.

 

[irishfanjho15]

My perspective on all this is simple. The goal is to win all of the games you play. It's not to impress pollsters or other coaches. Herm said it best, "You play to win the game".

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Great post. Like you said, consistency is the key. It's maybe not the best way to get to 1 or 2, but its the best way to return ND to the elite status of college football.

My two cents, I honestly don't know if we are good enough to worry about OFFENSIVE style points. This is why I think BK is such a good coach. He has pretty much maximized his return on investment, and done the best he can with what he has.

I wonder if, because we were really, really aggressive on defense early on against BC, Kelly planned that comment about defense being our style points. If it was, then thats a new take on style points and I like it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

There's no reason to be grumpy about style points. Read Dan Wetzel's article. Our current poll problem started with our loss to FSU in the Champs Sports Bowl, which is why we ended up ranked behind KSU in the preseason. No amount of style points would have moved us ahead of them.

 

[irishpat183]

Agree with all of this....but still gotta have the style points if you want to play for a national title. It's that simple.

keep in mind...winning takes care of itself though....Oregon or KSU may go down. That's why we need to keep winning.

 

[IrishFBfanatic]

Style points don't mean anything. We are ND...that means there is a lot of hatred towards the program. Do you really think if we beat BC by 50 they would view us any differently?

NOPE!!!

They'd say "ok, so they beat BC by 50...they should have beat BC by 50. No biggie" Had we won every game by 50 they would just belittle our opponents to make them seem less impressive. Style points mean nothing. It's all political and social.

The votes are based on pure opinion. Style points mean nothing. Winning is the only thing keeping us in the conversation. Imagine if we were to lose...how far we will fall? Haters are gunna hate.

It's been the motto all year: EMBRACE THE HATE! It will work out for us in the end...

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah while it's frustrating to hear all the talking heads at ESPN state ND is clearly not on the level of KSU, on paper or otherwise... Which is total bs... Especially the on paper part, I still believe if ND wins out they will be fine... I don't see all three winning out.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Style points don't mean anything. We are ND...that means there is a lot of hatred towards the program. Do you really think if we beat BC by 50 they would view us any differently?

NOPE!!!

They'd say "ok, so they beat BC by 50...they should have beat BC by 50. No biggie" Had we won every game by 50 they would just belittle our opponents to make them seem less impressive. Style points mean nothing. It's all political and social.

The votes are based on pure opinion. Style points mean nothing. Winning is the only thing keeping us in the conversation. Imagine if we were to lose...how far we will fall? Haters are gunna hate.

It's been the motto all year: EMBRACE THE HATE! It will work out for us in the end...

Style points definitely mean something. I don't think stomping BC would have helped, but I do think going to triple OT with Pitt hurt.

 

[chubler]

I could care less about "style points". The great dynasties of football in the past have been built on teams playing exactly how we play today: you run the ball, you don't allow the run, you play championship defense. The SEC co-opted the big ten's quintessential style of play and espn convinced everyone it was something new and exciting... nope. Championship football in every era is won the same way. Defense and power running. Option offenses, air raid attacks, etc... they all maximize return on investment from inferior athletes, but the way to win games in the past, now, and in the future is to get the best athletes, line up, and out-execute them mano-a-mano.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I could care less about "style points". The great dynasties of football in the past have been built on teams playing exactly how we play today: you run the ball, you don't allow the run, you play championship defense. The SEC co-opted the big ten's quintessential style of play and espn convinced everyone it was something new and exciting... nope. Championship football in every era is won the same way. Defense and power running. Option offenses, air raid attacks, etc... they all maximize return on investment from inferior athletes, but the way to win games in the past, now, and in the future is to get the best athletes, line up, and out-execute them mano-a-mano.

Absolutely agree with everything you say. But if you have 3 undefeated teams at the end of the year, how do you chose the 2 best? You look at how they did in their games. And at the end of the day, it does not help that ND's had to fight for its life against teams like Pitt.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Absolutely agree with everything you say. But if you have 3 undefeated teams at the end of the year, how do you chose the 2 best? You look at how they did in their games. And at the end of the day, it does not help that ND's had to fight for its life against teams like Pitt.

Agree. If we win handily against Pitt, Oklahoma win hype carries over. It's whatever. It sucks that you have to succumb to the requirements of a messed up system. But style points, even if the system sucks, do matter.

But I also agree with OP. This is not a one year thing. We are returning to our elite status. Winning accomplishes that, whether or not we get into NCG.

 

[Redbar]

Style points and the talk of them are part and parcel with what is wrong with college football, it is a term and construct of the ESPN era and it is for casual football fans and people who don't appreciate the intricacies of good team sports and sportsmanship. If we get up three scores against an easily outmatched Wake Forest team I hope I see Cam running the ball and some seniors who have not had a lot of playing time. We are ND. I agree with the OP this is not a one year thing, this is a process, a return to greatness, but OUR WAY. If you believe, as I do that that if looked at objectively we should be in the National Championship, then clearly there is bias and agenda pulling against us. If that is the case and there is a "fix" in then no amount of "style points" will help us. So we just need to win and pull for either KSU or Nike U. to stumble.

 

[ND NYC]

i really dont think style points matter...wetzel was spot on-the preseason ranking killed us and k state got a huge early win and we could never "catch up".

i still think like someone said above one of the 3 undefeateds loses a game. lets just worry abotu ND right now.

 

[Seanthornton]

It's funny how long we have came isn't in? From joining this board in '06 and going through the ups and downs, to where we are now. I am one to say, I can't believe we are 10-0. With the schedule at the beginning of the season, if you could tell me we would be 10-0 on the outside looking in, I would take it in a heartbeat.

Now all of a sudden the atmosphere of the board has changed. "Yeah, we are 10-0, but Kelly isn't calling the game to win over the pollsters."

You're right. All of you are right. He isn't calling the game that way. He is calling the game to WIN. Every game he is calling, it is the best way, with the players he has available to WIN. If we are up on Boston College because of ball control and running, then he is gonna keep it that way.

The only way to change the culture of ND football is to WIN. To make ND a powerhouse again, and to have us be considered as an elite college football team, is to WIN.

This isn't a one year thing. This is returning Notre Dame to glory, (which has been so overused by the media and ourselves as fans. )

Consistency is the key. Although being consistent in ourselves as a football team may not lead us to being number 1 or 2 in the polls, it is the best way for our program to return to greatness.

We still got some weeks left of college football too. Lesssss GO!!!!

I like and agree with what you Wrote. Well said !








KEEP THE FAITH !!!

GO !!! IRISH !!! GO !!!

 

[rikkitikki08]

This video is my response, Im fine with the the way ND is playing...10-0 Yo!

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