Spring Practice Thread 2018

[IrishLax]

No - he's in the collective of "capable of showing something" though, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became a bigger threat than Boykin. I wouldn't bet money on it, but wouldn't surprise me. Mckinley's shown nothing, and Boykin's shown one game.

Boykin's speed and acceleration will be an issue. Doesn't mean he can't play well, but it puts a ceiling on him right off the bat.

I generally agree with you, but if you go back and watch games where Boykin got minutes in '17 he actually gets a surprising amount of separation. He's not "fast" or "athletic"... he doesn't run by guys and can't take the top off a defense... but he gets decent separation. Specific examples are in the Miami (OH), Navy, and Wake Forest games.

I think his upside is a lot like Corey Robinson pre-injuries, except with better strength.

 

[koonja]

I generally agree with you, but if you go back and watch games where Boykin got minutes in '17 he actually gets a surprising amount of separation. He's not "fast" or "athletic"... he doesn't run by guys and can't take the top off a defense... but he gets decent separation. Specific examples are in the Miami (OH), Navy, and Wake Forest games.

I think his upside is a lot like Corey Robinson pre-injuries, except with better strength.

That could be. Obviously I don't know how fast he actually is, but the "eye test" he looks like he's trying to get a truck moving. Maybe he's deceptively fast, IDK.

If his upside is a health Corey Robinson, I still don't like that as our #1, and you'd probably agree. But Claypool is very capable of taking over that top spot, Michael Young is opening eyes all over, Mckinley keeps getting positive things said, and who knows if Austin can come in and make an impact. So overall that group's potential gives me hope.

I think if Boykin is the clear #1 half way through the season, we're in trouble, if that makes any sense. If some from the group above are playing so well it's debatable who our #1 is, I think that means ND is in a good spot. If Boykin is the clear #1 to that group, it means none of them stepped up, because they are arguably more talented than him.

 

[snoopdog]

I am letting sleeping dogs lie a bit...... but the Alpha of the wr group next year is Claypool.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

No - he's in the collective of "capable of showing something" though, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became a bigger threat than Boykin. I wouldn't bet money on it, but wouldn't surprise me. Mckinley's shown nothing, and Boykin's shown one game.

Boykin's speed and acceleration will be an issue. Doesn't mean he can't play well, but it puts a ceiling on him right off the bat.

When we're down 2 TDs and trying to make a come back, and don't, I can see the post-game already say "what do you expect when you have to throw to get back in it and you have Wimbush throwing to Boykin who can't get separation against good corners".

Happy to be wrong - but that's where my concern lies.

Even though Kelly has stated that he now has one of the fastest 10 yard take off tines on the team?

 

[NDVirginia19]

I'm thinking that Boykin's speed problem is a bit overstated. He probably lacks the speed to be a true #1 in the NFL sure, but I think he suffers almost a Josh Adams type misconception that he's slower just based on watching him run. Boykin will be able to actually go out there and win 50/50 balls which we haven't really seen consistently from an ND Wide Receiver since maybe Floyd (and Eifert)

 

[koonja]

Even though Kelly has stated that he now has one of the fastest 10 yard take off tines on the team?

Yeah, it's a concern of mine. I've never watched him and not thought he's a step slower than everyone else.

BK also said Alex Bars is the best OL prospect in 20 years. How'd that turn out in relation to Q. Nelson?

Would love to be wrong on Boykin, but my eyes tell me to hold the horses on the hype.

 

[jspags10pg]

That could be. Obviously I don't know how fast he actually is, but the "eye test" he looks like he's trying to get a truck moving. Maybe he's deceptively fast, IDK.

If his upside is a health Corey Robinson, I still don't like that as our #1, and you'd probably agree. But Claypool is very capable of taking over that top spot, Michael Young is opening eyes all over, Mckinley keeps getting positive things said, and who knows if Austin can come in and make an impact. So overall that group's potential gives me hope.

I think if Boykin is the clear #1 half way through the season, we're in trouble, if that makes any sense. If some from the group above are playing so well it's debatable who our #1 is, I think that means ND is in a good spot. If Boykin is the clear #1 to that group, it means none of them stepped up, because they are arguably more talented than him.

I pretty much agree with most of what you're saying but I believe the bolded is true. I know he was 1 of I think 8 guys on the team with a 10 yard split of under 1.5 seconds so he has a little bit of acceleration that doesn't seem to show much when you see him running. Big, heavy guy with long legs but he can move fairly well.

I also agree with whoever said Claypool will be the best WR on the team next year. Loads of potential that he and Del Alexander just have to put together. You saw it on display against a pretty good Wake Forest defense last year. I'm hoping he's our guy at WR this year.

 

[Wingman Ray]

-Wimbush is going to win the starting job. Accept it now. I don't honestly believe they're giving Book a truly "fair" shot. If Wibmush puts it all together the ceiling for him is a Heisman... if he doesn't we know Book can come off the bench and make plays.

The issue is how deep in the hole does BK let Wimbush bring ND before he pulls him against Mich? And then does he go back in the next week against weaker competition and stay in until he lays eggs against better competition?

 

[IrishLion]

That could be. Obviously I don't know how fast he actually is, but the "eye test" he looks like he's trying to get a truck moving. Maybe he's deceptively fast, IDK.

If his upside is a health Corey Robinson, I still don't like that as our #1, and you'd probably agree. But Claypool is very capable of taking over that top spot, Michael Young is opening eyes all over, Mckinley keeps getting positive things said, and who knows if Austin can come in and make an impact. So overall that group's potential gives me hope.

I think if Boykin is the clear #1 half way through the season, we're in trouble, if that makes any sense. If some from the group above are playing so well it's debatable who our #1 is, I think that means ND is in a good spot. If Boykin is the clear #1 to that group, it means none of them stepped up, because they are arguably more talented than him.

Idk, couldn't it also mean that Boykin himself stepped up? Maybe he DOES end up being pretty fast for a big guy, and that's why he separates as a #1 target.

The other thing to think about is that your beliefs on Boykin seem to indicate that you don't think a true possession receiver can be a #1 option, or at least that someone is automatically more talented if they have tons of speed.

There are plenty of teams out there with successful offenses that feature possession receivers similar to Boykin as their #1. Just because a guy isn't a threat to outrun the secondary on every play doesn't mean his isn't capable of being the primary weapon that breaks a defense's gameplan.

I guess I just take issue with "the other guys are probably faster, so if they don't pass slow Boykin in the pecking order, that's bad news because they are obviously more talented."

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

That could be. Obviously I don't know how fast he actually is, but the "eye test" he looks like he's trying to get a truck moving. Maybe he's deceptively fast, IDK.

If his upside is a health Corey Robinson, I still don't like that as our #1, and you'd probably agree. But Claypool is very capable of taking over that top spot, Michael Young is opening eyes all over, Mckinley keeps getting positive things said, and who knows if Austin can come in and make an impact. So overall that group's potential gives me hope.

I think if Boykin is the clear #1 half way through the season, we're in trouble, if that makes any sense. If some from the group above are playing so well it's debatable who our #1 is, I think that means ND is in a good spot. If Boykin is the clear #1 to that group, it means none of them stepped up, because they are arguably more talented than him.

So if Boykin were #1, with 12 TDs and 800 yards through the first half of the season, would that still mean we're screwed?

Your logic is awful.

 

[stlnd01]

TBH I’m far more concerned about the prospect of Chris Finke being a starter than I am about Boykin nominally being our #1 WR.

 

[IrishLion]

So if Boykin were #1, with 12 TDs and 800 yards through the first half of the season, would that still mean we're screwed?

Your logic is awful.

There are two main problems with that logic:

1. It leaves no room for the possibility that Boykin himself steps up. The other guys might play really well, but Boykin himself can play well, too. We saw one flash in one game, and if he can sustain that into a new season, he's got a decent ceiling as a big-body WR.

2. It seems to write off non-speed WR's as "less talented" automatically. A guy doesn't need to be super fast to be a #1, or to be a primary target. It's harder, because they need to be physically dominant, but Boykin's got the size and wingspan to make that a possibility. Guys like Young, McKinley, Claypool or a frosh like Austin might have better top speed, but that doesn't automatically mean that they are more talented naturally, or have a higher ceiling.

 

[koonja]

So if Boykin were #1, with 12 TDs and 800 yards through the first half of the season, would that still mean we're screwed?

Your logic is awful.

Boykin has an immediate ceiling as a #1 due to his speed. This is my opinion. Claypool, Young, even McKinley likely have a "higher ceiling" than Boykin, so yes, if none of them step up and he's by default our #1 mid season, that's a bad sign IMO.

If he has 12 TDs half way through the season, OR 800 yards, I'll perma-ban myself form the site.

What are you willing to offer? Just hopes and prayers and half baked insults? Tuff tuff.

 

[T-Boone]

If Boykin is a clear, reliable number 1 it is going to be great for Wimbush and his confidence.
He is a big target with good hands and he wants to establish a reputation for taking the hard catches so he will give everything on those throws that might be slightly off target but still catchable. Who was doing that last year?
I don't think he will throw up his arms in frustration if Wimbush puts one a foot behind him, he will either catch it or be angry at himself for not catching it.

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

I think 1 freshman if not two will start at WR by half way of the season

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think 1 freshman if not two will start at WR by half way of the season

Slow your roll. I can buy what your selling if we are talking about 1 freshman possibly starting. But there is absolutely ZERO chance we have two freshman starting at WR.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

LOL, have we ever had a freshman wide receiver consistently start?

Austin might be the best WR prospect we've signed since Kelly got here but still, Kellys wants the young guys to know the playbook.

 

[stlnd01]

If Boykin is a clear, reliable number 1 it is going to be great for Wimbush and his confidence.
He is a big target with good hands and he wants to establish a reputation for taking the hard catches so he will give everything on those throws that might be slightly off target but still catchable. Who was doing that last year?
I don't think he will throw up his arms in frustration if Wimbush puts one a foot behind him, he will either catch it or be angry at himself for not catching it.

Boykin does appear to seriously want to catch the football. That was not always a given with our WRs last year.

 

[Crazy Balki]

I think Koon is putting way too much stock into this idea that Boykin isn't fast. Boykin's issue isn't really speed. Don't get me wrong, he's not a burner, but he can get separation and possesses deceptive athleticism. His issue has been consistently getting off the line quickly. He's been far more consistent this spring, but prior to, it's been a problem and it has limited his ability to get separation.

Personally, I'd be surprised if this unit isn't drastically improved over last year's group. People quickly point to the loss of EQ and Stepherson, but Stepherson didn't play for more than half the season, and EQ, despite his athleticism, disappeared far too often for a #1 and didn't utilize his overwhelming length advantage anywhere near enough. This group is far more scrappy and competitive, which I value a lot more. Among the groups last year, receiver was easily the least vocal and competitive. Doesn't appear to be the case this time around.

 

[BGIF]

LOL, have we ever had a freshman wide receiver consistently start?

Austin might be the best WR prospect we've signed since Kelly got here but still, Kellys wants the young guys to know the playbook.

Joey Getherall started opening day as a freshman and had 5 catches against GT. He was the first ND freshman to start his opening game at any position since Kovaleski in '86. Joey was injured, knee, in the second half. He subsequently had a deep groin injury that required surgery after the season.

In addition to his incredible speed, he got separation, and ran precise routes, unusual for a freshman and some ND seniors. He would have had a lot more catches in a Weis or Kelly offense than under Davie, Colletto, and Rodgers.

 

[T-Boone]

Boykin does appear to seriously want to catch the football. That was not always a given with our WRs last year.

Yep, EQ wanted to put on a show with his speed and quickness and he wanted good ball to do that. Got frustrated when it didn't come. Whereas Boykin wants to put on a show like he did with THAT CATCH...thats what gets him to the NFL not so much what he does after the catch. That has got to be good for Wimbush. They might even practice the hard to take catches.

 

[T-Boone]

I feel like if Boykin is your target you aren't going to need to worry too much about interceptions because he can at least break the interception up.

 

[BGIF]

Yep, EQ wanted to put on a show with his speed and quickness and he wanted good ball to do that. Got frustrated when it didn't come. Whereas Boykin wants to put on a show like he did with THAT CATCH...thats what gets him to the NFL not so much what he does after the catch. That has got to be good for Wimbush. They might even practice the hard to take catches.

With Wimbush ... everyday.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Samardzija was too slow to be a #1 receiver.

(please note that I am not saying Boykin will be Samardzija)

 

[irishandy]

I think Boykin could turn into our #1 endzone WR. I think he's got the physical traits to go up for a jump ball.

As far as for speed I think Michael Young will be ND's Stepherson with his speed, I'd like to see what he can do on a jet sweep.

My dark horse is Javon McKinley. I am hoping he can find a way to get in the rotation and showcase his talents.

Claypool will be Claypool, the kid we can hope to count on to make a play when needed.

The freshman that intrigue me the most are Lenzy, Austin, and Keys. I think Keys can be Michael Young 2.0. I'd give Lenzy and Austin a shot at punt returns.

 

[koonja]

For those of you with ISD access, this is a really good comparison article between the 2012 and 2018 defense. Pretty promising perspective if you buy it.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/5960/comparing-the-2012-defense-to-the-2018-version/1

 

[IRISHMAN]

The freshman that intrigue me the most are Lenzy, Austin, and Keys. I think Keys can be Michael Young 2.0. I'd give Lenzy and Austin a shot at punt returns.

how have the freshman that enrolled early doing?

 

[PANDFAN]

how have the freshman that enrolled early doing?

houston has looked decent/good and is running w/ the safeties now, jones, ovie, lamb-stated they look like freshman and not looking to make push at all currently, baurer was listed as being the most ready of the freshm/0an linebackers but i haven't seen much at all regarding him since the 1st day...takacs (sp?) he is recovering and not doing anything

 

[Luckylucci]

For those of you with ISD access, this is a really good comparison article between the 2012 and 2018 defense. Pretty promising perspective if you buy it.

https://irishsportsdaily.com/s/5960/comparing-the-2012-defense-to-the-2018-version/1

I don't think the expectations should be much lower. If Elko was the DC, I'd be extremely confident in this coming to fruition. With it being Lea's first year as a DC, I have some apprehension but the cast of characters that he has to work with is quite good.

Here is more of the same.

College football playoff Big 12 ESPN FPI projections

"Note that Notre Dame has a very real chance to break into the playoff for the first time, thanks to its No. 5 ranking in FPI. Why is the model so high on the Fighting Irish? Because of their defense. After ranking 10th in opponent-adjusted defensive efficiency last season, Notre Dame is returning 10 starters on that side of the ball. As a result, FPI predicts South Bend to host the nation's third-best defense in 2018."

 

[stlnd01]

"Note that Notre Dame has a very real chance to break into the playoff for the first time, thanks to its No. 5 ranking in FPI. Why is the model so high on the Fighting Irish? Because of their defense. After ranking 10th in opponent-adjusted defensive efficiency last season, Notre Dame is returning 10 starters on that side of the ball. As a result, FPI predicts South Bend to host the nation's third-best defense in 2018."

Yup. Top to bottom our defense is as talented and deep as it has been in a long long time. Now we just need reliable QB play, a couple of WRs to emerge, and the running backs to stay healthy. NBD.