So we meet again...

[johnnykillz]

What is everyone's take on the game? Why do y'all think ND lost?

With your affiliation, that's an unhealthy question to ask...

I trust you can successfully navigate this board?

You're next response will establish your rep here for all accounts and purposes as either: A) troll -or-B) ignorant.

Read up then come back.

 

[phork]

What is everyone's take on the game? Why do y'all think ND lost?

Because Kelly blew it. NEXT.

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

What is everyone's take on the game? Why do y'all think ND lost?

Sup?

 

[Jerry]

What is everyone's take on the game? Why do y'all think ND lost?

I'll take the bait. ND couldn't move the ball because they didn't have a QB. Their defense shut down Manuel for the majority of the game, but when FSU was able to get better field position via special teams and a turnover they were able to put points on the board. The end.

 

[ChrisGSO]

Listen... Every post you've made yesterday and today is just looking to bait a reaction. Take your sorry azz somewhere else.

With your affiliation, that's an unhealthy question to ask...

I trust you can successfully navigate this board?

You're next response will establish your rep here for all accounts and purposes as either: A) troll -or-B) ignorant.

Read up then come back.

I'll take the bait. ND couldn't move the ball because they didn't have a QB. Their defense shut down Manuel for the majority of the game, but when FSU was able to get better field position via special teams and a turnover they were able to put points on the board. The end.

Thanks for an actual response. That was just an awkward game. At first, I thought y'all stopped blitzing in the second half but after watching the replay, I see that's not the case. I think Jimbo just called much quicker plays in the second half. Had Floyd been healthy during the 4th quarter, I think this game would not have ended with an FSU win.

 

[returnofthemack]

Like Johnnykillz said, it's pretty obvious from the titles of most of the recent threads on the board. But to put it concisely, the quarterbacking was atrocious. Tommy Rees was not the answer, as a plethora of posters have been saying since the michigan game. The running game was OK, but we all knew FSU's run D was stellar. ND defense was pretty good, but it was only a matter of time before they decided to throw long against Gary Gray, a foolproof plan. Thus, the main thrust of the site's angst seems to be that the lack of development at certain positions may have put us in a terrible position for next year, which is certainly valid. I personally find the lack of offensive production egregious after extended practice time. Whatever, it was a bad game on our part. Hopefully things get ironed out and Kelly gets his $hit together re: QB. Happy new year.

 

[returnofthemack]

And I don't think you can call him a troll. He came back after the Wake Forest game and was more than polite.

 

[Patulski]

What is everyone's take on the game? Why do y'all think ND lost?

Your defensive front whipped our offensive front, and we didn't have enough skill position players to make up the difference. Your offense did, barely.

 

[ChrisGSO]

Here we go again. Hope all is well with everyone! Looking forward to this one, guys and gals!

 

[connor_in]

Here we go again. Hope all is well with everyone! Looking forward to this one, guys and gals!

Coincidence that JW needs to set up a hearing date, but that hasn't been done yet and he would continue to play? (Unlike ND when they find something out potentially about players, they are suspended indefinitely.)

Coincidence that big time LB who was indefinitely suspended for nebulous violation of team rules suddenly get un-suspended just in time to practice and play in the biggest game left on your schedule for the year? Any indication what he did? And why defense so bad without him (rankings-wise)?

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

Coincidence that JW needs to set up a hearing date, but that hasn't been done yet and he would continue to play? (Unlike ND when they find something out potentially about players, they are suspended indefinitely.)

Coincidence that big time LB who was indefinitely suspended for nebulous violation of team rules suddenly get un-suspended just in time to practice and play in the biggest game left on your schedule for the year? Any indication what he did? And why defense so bad without him (rankings-wise)?

 

[dshans]

Some of my best friends from high school (Bishop Moore in Orlando) went to FSU. Others went to Florida. Many are good friends to this day.

With all respect – due and undue – Fuck FSU, Fuck Florida; Fuck Alls Y'alls!!!

 

[ChrisGSO]

Coincidence that JW needs to set up a hearing date, but that hasn't been done yet and he would continue to play? (Unlike ND when they find something out potentially about players, they are suspended indefinitely.)

Coincidence that big time LB who was indefinitely suspended for nebulous violation of team rules suddenly get un-suspended just in time to practice and play in the biggest game left on your schedule for the year? Any indication what he did? And why defense so bad without him (rankings-wise)?

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

 

[ndfi78]

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

He wasn't proven innocent by the DA, they said they couldn't find enough evidence to prosecute. Huge difference.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

It sure is a good thing you came here with all of the facts or we would've kept believing the criminole NYTimes and ESPN. Thanks for setting the record straight. Speaking of, what did you think of the NY Times piece on the corruption in Tallahassee?

As to the real questions: Do you think the Irish pose any problems for FSU? What is your biggest strength heading into the game? Where is your team struggling?

We are turning the ball over excessively. We are unable to establish a ground game and our defense just had it's worst performance of the year.

On the flipside, our QB is fairly dynamic with a very strong arm. We have a stable or RBs capable of good things, a clear #1 WR has finally emerged and our OL will hopefully continue to coalesce into a dominant unit.

Our defense, prior to UNC, was putting up some great numbers. I hope we can play our first complete game of the whole year against your team.

 

[ChrisGSO]

He wasn't proven innocent by the DA, they said they couldn't find enough evidence to prosecute. Huge difference.

True because in order for him to be proven innocent, he would actually have to be charged for something and it would have to go to trial.

Also, not just the DA, but the State Attorney's Office as well.

 

[Corry]

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

LOL dude most of your "facts" are rumors that have been refuted.

 

[ChrisGSO]

It sure is a good thing you came here with all of the facts or we would've kept believing the criminole NYTimes and ESPN. Thanks for setting the record straight. Speaking of, what did you think of the NY Times piece on the corruption in Tallahassee?

As to the real questions: Do you think the Irish pose any problems for FSU? What is your biggest strength heading into the game? Where is your team struggling?

We are turning the ball over excessively. We are unable to establish a ground game and our defense just had it's worst performance of the year.

On the flipside, our QB is fairly dynamic with a very strong arm. We have a stable or RBs capable of good things, a clear #1 WR has finally emerged and our OL will hopefully continue to coalesce into a dominant unit.

Our defense, prior to UNC, was putting up some great numbers. I hope we can play our first complete game of the whole year against your team.

If you really want to know, I think the NY Times piece is extremely biased and only points out stuff that fits their narrative.

But anyway, I think this will be a shootout. Our defense is suspect, at best and you have, as you said, an extremely dynamic QB. Notre Dame will put up some points this week. I just hope FSU can do the same. We are inconsistent running the ball but our wide receivers are finally starting to gel. We certainly miss Kelvin Benjamin this year. I could never bet against (for on, for that matter) my own team but I think ND +13.5 is a steal. I can't wait for the game.

 

[ChrisGSO]

LOL dude most of your "facts" are rumors that have been refuted.

News to me. Please show me where all of these have been refuted. I'm serious. If this is true, then I need to stop reporting them as facts. With that said, I have been following this closely since it broke so it would shock me to see there is a credible story out there that I have not read.

 

[Buster Bluth]

True because in order for him to be proven innocent, he would actually have to be charged for something and it would have to go to trial.

Also, not just the DA, but the State Attorney's Office as well.

...you aren't proven innocent in court, ever. It's guilty or not guilty.

 

[ACamp1900]

Off the field madness, at both schools to varying degrees in fairness, aside, the game should be a good one... I don't think ND is a legit title contender yet, but I do think they are better than the average non-ND fan is willing to admit.

Hopefully it's a good game, most match ups between the two have been.

 

[ChrisGSO]

...you aren't proven innocent in court, ever. It's guilty or not guilty.

Not guilty = innocent

 

[ab2cmiller]

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

Your post convinced me that I might not have read the "whole story" as you put it. So I pulled up the State Attorney's report and read it for myself. The "facts" that you posted above are either half truths or outright lies.

The first quote about deleted text messages you only quoted the first half of the paragraph of the report. The second half of the paragraph explains why she wanted to see the deleted text messages. You may not buy her explanation, but at least give us the courtesy of giving us all the information. Quoting part of the information certainly is misleading.

She asked for a 7 million dollar settlement, you call it hush money.

She NEVER said she was drugged, she repeatedly said in the report that she blacked out after being hit on the head.

The FSU Cleat Chasers accusation is part of Winston's defense, it certainly isn't in the State Attorney's Report and I can't find anywhere that this has been verified. Just that they have a "source" that claims it to be true.

 

[IrishLax]

It was always known Thomas would be suspended for half the year.

This is true.

As for the Jameis thing, why would FSU suspend a player who has been proven innocent by 3 different systems, including the State Attorney's Office?

If you can't draw the line between "not enough evidence for criminal justice"... and for very debatable reasons on why there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute... and "violation of basic codes of conduct you expect any legitimate University to have" then there's no point in discussing it.

Why is BSPN not mentioning that the aunt (the accuser's original attorney) tried to coerce the accuser's friend that she had on the shorts that had the dual semen samples?

How about this...
From the SAO narrative summary:
Inv. Angulo asked XX if she was still unsure about how she wanted to proceed with the case. XX told him she would like to see the deleted text messages before she made a decision.

She's basically asked the officer, "To be absolutely sure if I was raped, can you remind which texts I felt worthy of deleting just before I cried rape? They might blow a huge hole in the story I've been telling you."

Or the fact that she asked FSU and Jameis for $7 million hush money and when FSU refused, TMZ broke the story two days later?

Or the fact that she claimed she was drugged when the toxicology reports conducted that night proved otherwise?

Or the fact that she was a member of a group at FSU called the 'FSU Cleat Chasers'?

I could keep going but after all the BS ESPN, Fox Sports, etc has said... no one will read the whole story and get the facts.

I actually don't give a crap about the rape or lack of rape or whatever. I agree with innocent until proven guilty and I acknowledge that there are MANY false accusations.

How about two gun incidents? How about all the stealing? How about all of the other misconduct? How about the stuff swept under the rug that no one even knows about?

If anyone had a gun incident at ND they would be gone immediately. If you get caught with weed at ND you're gone immediately... not NCAA minimum suspension. If you commit grand theft auto it doesn't suspiciously get knocked down to a misdemeanor and then the player suspiciously has enough money to pay the restitution when his family is dead broke and can't even afford rent.

Two different worlds.

 

[Corry]

News to me. Please show me where all of these have been refuted. I'm serious. If this is true, then I need to stop reporting them as facts. With that said, I have been following this closely since it broke so it would shock me to see there is a credible story out there that I have not read.

Dude I'm at work I'm not going to troll the internet looking for exact quotes. All I know is everything you stated as fact has not been reported by any legitimate news outlet. Hell even blogs like Warchant haven't reported anything you stated.

 

[IrishLax]

Yes, I think he should be playing. I also think the Gator's Treon Harris should be playing as well, since he has not been charged. In fact, the accuser in that situation dropped the charges so why was he suspended again?

As for his other charges... allow me to break them down.

• A one night stand with a stranger. (Clearly a bad choice but how many college kids have behaved similarly.)
• Drinking soda that he did not pay for from a little ketchup cup in Burger King. (Stupid, absolutely stupid and entitled behavior... but hardly worth mentioning as a crime.)
• As a freshman, shooting BB guns at squirrels in an apartment complex with about 5 other players, causing about $2,000 in property damage. (Again, stupid. Reckless stupidity.)
• Stealing crab legs. (Stupid, very real crime. But, God knows I did worse things as a student.)

He's a college kid. Yeah, he's in the 'spotlight' and he should 'know better' but I honestly worry how I would have been perceived if the 'spotlight' was on me constantly when I was 19 years old.

Causing thousands of dollars of property damage through illegal use of firearms isn't a real crime!?!?!?!

 

[gkIrish]

Yes, I think he should be playing. I also think the Gator's Treon Harris should be playing as well, since he has not been charged. In fact, the accuser in that situation dropped the charges so why was he suspended again?

As for his other charges... allow me to break them down.

• A one night stand with a stranger. (Clearly a bad choice but how many college kids have behaved similarly.)
• Drinking soda that he did not pay for from a little ketchup cup in Burger King. (Stupid, absolutely stupid and entitled behavior... but hardly worth mentioning as a crime.)
• As a freshman, shooting BB guns at squirrels in an apartment complex with about 5 other players, causing about $2,000 in property damage. (Again, stupid. Reckless stupidity.)
• Stealing crab legs. (His first real crime as I see it, but God knows I did worse things as a student.)

He's a college kid. Yeah, he's in the 'spotlight' and he should 'know better' but I honestly worry how I would have been perceived if the 'spotlight' was on me constantly when I was 19 years old.

In isolation a lot of these incidents aren't really that serious as you note. But his pattern of immoral/criminal behavior is very concerning. It sends a really bad message that he continues to play in games while fresh evidence supporting serious allegations was introduced recently.

 

[ChrisGSO]

Causing thousands of dollars of property damage through illegal use of firearms isn't a real crime!?!?!?!

Before you replied, I edited my post so it no longer said the crab legs theft was his first real crime. I thought better of it.

 

[ChrisGSO]

Your post convinced me that I might not have read the "whole story" as you put it. So I pulled up the State Attorney's report and read it for myself. The "facts" that you posted above are either half truths or outright lies.

The first quote about deleted text messages you only quoted the first half of the paragraph of the report. The second half of the paragraph explains why she wanted to see the deleted text messages. You may not buy her explanation, but at least give us the courtesy of giving us all the information. Quoting part of the information certainly is misleading.

She asked for a 7 million dollar settlement, you call it hush money.

She NEVER said she was drugged, she repeatedly said in the report that she blacked out after being hit on the head.

The FSU Cleat Chasers accusation is part of Winston's defense, it certainly isn't in the State Attorney's Report and I can't find anywhere that this has been verified. Just that they have a "source" that claims it to be true.

Yes, I call it hush money. When they refused to pay, the story was magically leaked to TMZ.

As for the Cleats Chasers 'accusation', you do realize tweets are constantly saved online and there are archive sites showing she was in fact a member of this organization, right? She conveniently deleted all her tweets when all of this happened but they're still on the archive sites.

Also, this 'being hit in the head' is news to me. Here is the original police report and as you can see, she makes no mention of that...

This is true.
If you can't draw the line between "not enough evidence for criminal justice"... and for very debatable reasons on why there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute... and "violation of basic codes of conduct you expect any legitimate University to have" then there's no point in discussing it.
I actually don't give a crap about the rape or lack of rape or whatever. I agree with innocent until proven guilty and I acknowledge that there are MANY false accusations.

How about two gun incidents? How about all the stealing? How about all of the other misconduct? How about the stuff swept under the rug that no one even knows about?

If anyone had a gun incident at ND they would be gone immediately. If you get caught with weed at ND you're gone immediately... not NCAA minimum suspension. If you commit grand theft auto it doesn't suspiciously get knocked down to a misdemeanor and then the player suspiciously has enough money to pay the restitution when his family is dead broke and can't even afford rent.
Two different worlds.

Fair enough.

In isolation a lot of these incidents aren't really that serious as you note. But his pattern of immoral/criminal behavior is very concerning. It sends a really bad message that he continues to play in games while fresh evidence supporting serious allegations was introduced recently.

Again, fair enough. Hopefully, this last instance was the last. We will see....

 

[ab2cmiller]

ChrisGSO,

Accusser's attorney claims that Winston's attorney reached out to them to come up with a monetary settlement to "make the case go away". Accussers attorney says that they didn't approach Winston's attorney about any kind of settlement.

In regards to being hit on the head, if you search the term "head" in this .pdf of the State Attorney's report it is all over the place. She never claimed she was drugged including the section that you copied and pasted.
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/1206/winston-inv1.pdf

I agree that archived tweets should be around some place confirming the Winston's camp accusation. At this point I haven't seen any confirmation. If you can provide a link, that would be great.