Skunkbear Signal Stealing Scandal

DillonHall

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It's too coordinated and for too long for Harbaugh to not have known. This guy is spending big money and in the lockerroom with players. No one at the NCAA can seriously buy Harbaugh wasn't connected, right? Damn it, now I'm invested. Just in time to be let down by another Michigan luck out. Evidence "just too messy and will take time to sort out". Wet fart.

I'm sure the scheme was designed to make it look like Harbaugh wasn't involved on paper. But it's not a valid excuse- the head coach is responsible for everything that happens in his program (LOIC)
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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If Michigan was 5-2, I would be confident in them getting hammered. Don’t trust the NCAA will do anything. They had enough evidence on Cam Newton but chose not to do anything because they were undefeated that year. They don’t like coming down on title contenders as it puts a stain on the sport. We’ll see.
This is where I am at until they prove otherwise. The news of them being on campus in Ann Arbor did nothing to move me in one way or the other.

Penn State, Miami, UNC, the list goes on. They've had ample opportunity to justifiably hold some of these programs accountable and have not done it. I don't see any reason why they would choose to start now unless there really is some kind of vendetta against Harbaugh, and considering the crap he's pulled quite recently maybe that's the case and they have some right to be pursuing him again. I just find it odd that all of the sudden they're deciding to make an example out of them for something that while unprecedented isn't anywhere close to being as serious and heinous as what Penn State did with Sandusky under Paterno's watch or what Miami turned a blind eye to with Nevin Shapiro.

Vacating wins and Heismans trophies means nothing. Michigan has already gone through this with the basketball program. The Fab Five's Final Four banners had to be taken down because Chris Webber took money. All of it still happened if you're old enough to remember and if you're not, do you really even care? Until there is real consequences, they're just dog and pony showing until they prove otherwise.

A very cynical part of me thinks the people in charge are going to see Michigan as a ratings boon and won't want to come down on them because there are going to be eyeballs on televisions when they play as long as they are viable and relevant to the playoff discussion this season. TV runs the show, especially in sports.
 

Huntr

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You guys have too much faith in the NCAA. Nothing major will happen... Michigan will lose a few scholarships and Harbaugh will get suspended for a bit and/or leave.


And nothing from the NCAA will happen before summer, anyway. So it all gets vacated, who cares. The games will still be played and people will know who won. Even if they win the natty and that gets vacated, it won't be a huge deal. They'll claim it, anyway.

The B1G *might* do something soon, like prohibit them from competing in the CCG. Maybe that prevents the CFP from selecting them, but I doubt it.

Harbaugh will fuck off to the NFL after this season and won't gaf, either. Stalions will get hammered, but so what.
 

ab2cmiller

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And nothing from the NCAA will happen before summer, anyway. So it all gets vacated, who cares. The games will still be played and people will know who won. Even if they win the natty and that gets vacated, it won't be a huge deal. They'll claim it, anyway.

The B1G *might* do something soon, like prohibit them from competing in the CCG. Maybe that prevents the CFP from selecting them, but I doubt it.

Harbaugh will fuck off to the NFL after this season and won't gaf, either. Stalions will get hammered, but so what.
BINGO.

The Michigan talking heads have said the same thing already. Go ahead and try to take it away from us. The games were played. We won. National Championship winners.
 

thekid33

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I just find it odd that all of the sudden they're deciding to make an example out of them for something that while unprecedented isn't anywhere close to being as serious and heinous as what Penn State did with Sandusky under Paterno's watch
Living amongst the State Penn fans, I have an interesting perspective on the Sandusky situation and how most everyone that's not one of their fan views it compared to how they view it. The rational pov is that they got away with far less punishment than was deserved. But, to hear their fans talk about they act like they got the death penalty and that the NCAA is so unfair in how they were treated compared to other programs.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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And nothing from the NCAA will happen before summer, anyway. So it all gets vacated, who cares. The games will still be played and people will know who won. Even if they win the natty and that gets vacated, it won't be a huge deal. They'll claim it, anyway.

The B1G *might* do something soon, like prohibit them from competing in the CCG. Maybe that prevents the CFP from selecting them, but I doubt it.

Harbaugh will fuck off to the NFL after this season and won't gaf, either. Stalions will get hammered, but so what.
I can't see this as an option. This goes to court if they try it, especially if the NCAA doesn't do anything until summer.

As for Stalions, with Corporate America being what it is, someone is going to have use for this talents and he's going to have opportunities outside of sports as well as within.

The best possible outcome is that someone beats them, and it's probably going to have to be Ohio State, and they don't win anything this year.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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Living amongst the State Penn fans, I have an interesting perspective on the Sandusky situation and how most everyone that's not one of their fan views it compared to how they view it. The rational pov is that they got away with far less punishment than was deserved. But, to hear their fans talk about they act like they got the death penalty and that the NCAA is so unfair in how they were treated compared to other programs.
I can imagine.

Having seen some of the documentaries and read a lot of different pieces over the years about that fan base, I have no doubt that what you're saying is accurate. Even when all that first came out and they were rallying around Paterno, it had a very delusional cult type of feel to it.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I get the reference about the B1G and I get the amount of money that gets bet on CFB, but Vegas has no affiliation with the NCAA. I would hope the NCAA isn't doing this or being influenced by Vegas because people won/lost betting on scUM or any CFB game.

Not a lawyer, but if evidence shows UM cheated and outcomes of games swayed because of it, I'd imagine sports books could file a civil suit for damages against the university, right?

You guys have too much faith in the NCAA. Nothing major will happen... Michigan will lose a few scholarships and Harbaugh will get suspended for a bit and/or leave.

This is where I'm holding steady. I don't want to get my hopes up that UM may actually pay a real price for cheating. No other recent programs have had to pay a severe price, why would UM.
 

stlnd01

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And nothing from the NCAA will happen before summer, anyway. So it all gets vacated, who cares. The games will still be played and people will know who won. Even if they win the natty and that gets vacated, it won't be a huge deal. They'll claim it, anyway.

The B1G *might* do something soon, like prohibit them from competing in the CCG. Maybe that prevents the CFP from selecting them, but I doubt it.
All probably true, but I keep coming back to the fact that a whole bunch of Michigan's peer programs got directly fucked over here, and they will (or should) want some form of justice.
This isn't like a recruiting violation that doesn't squarely affect other teams on the field. This was zero-sum, wins-and-losses sort of stuff. And all the victims are just as much equal members of the conference and NCAA as Michigan is.
 

BleedBlueGold

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All probably true, but I keep coming back to the fact that a whole bunch of Michigan's peer programs got directly fucked over here, and they will (or should) want some form of justice.
This isn't like a recruiting violation that doesn't squarely affect other teams on the field. This was zero-sum, wins-and-losses sort of stuff. And all the victims are just as much equal members of the conference and NCAA as Michigan is.

To play devil's advocate; to the bolded, that is why I feel most B1G members will keep their head down until after UM competes (and possibly wins) in the CFP/Championship....there is a lot of money at stake for the conference, which gets dolled out to all of the schools within.
 

stlnd01

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To play devil's advocate; to the bolded, that is why I feel most B1G members will keep their head down until after UM competes (and possibly wins) in the CFP/Championship....there is a lot of money at stake for the conference, which gets dolled out to all of the schools within.
They get paid the same if it's Ohio State in the CFP instead of Michigan, don't they?
 

BleedBlueGold

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They get paid the same if it's Ohio State in the CFP instead of Michigan, don't they?

Yes. I'm just referencing a situation if UM wins out. The conference isn't likely to step in and prevent them from going to the CFP.
 

thekid33

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Even when all that first came out and they were rallying around Paterno, it had a very delusional cult type of feel to it.

100% a cult. I was even willing to cut them slack initially for rallying around Paterno until the full story came out. But, even after everything came out they continue to ignore the facts and act like he was a saint.
 

stlnd01

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Yes. I'm just referencing a situation if UM wins out. The conference isn't likely to step in and prevent them from going to the CFP.
Another reason to resolve this quickly. By the Big Ten title game (if not by next Saturday). I agree the Big Ten is not going to stop an undefeated/conference champ Michigan from going to the CFP. But if they slap a postseason ban on Michigan in the next month, Michigan won't be the conference champ, someone else will. And if it's Ohio State they're a plausible playoff team.

I also can not imagine the media shitstorm that will surround the Ohio State game, Big Ten title game and CFP if Michigan is allowed to just going about its business.
 

Katzenboyer

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Hate to pour cold water on the NCAA doing something before the CFP, but... the bylaws give Michigan 90 days to respond to allegations. Even now, that's past the CFP timeline, so unless the committee is willing to keep them out based on the allegation alone, or the B1G is willing to suspend them, they'd still get in.

This wouldn't restrict the CFP Committee nor the Big 10 from punishing Michigan.
 

Huntr

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All probably true, but I keep coming back to the fact that a whole bunch of Michigan's peer programs got directly fucked over here, and they will (or should) want some form of justice.
This isn't like a recruiting violation that doesn't squarely affect other teams on the field. This was zero-sum, wins-and-losses sort of stuff. And all the victims are just as much equal members of the conference and NCAA as Michigan is.
Very true. That's why I think the most likely immediate outcome, however improbable, is the B1G doing something. This especially fucked its members. Michigan is a dyed-in-the-wool blueblood, but so are the Buckeyes.
 

DONTH8

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Pete Thamel and Greeny are ESPN colleagues, right? Pete is merely reporting on the news coming out. Greeny is gaslighting.
They are, and correct me if I’m wrong, but Pete Thamel is posting the allegations against Michigan. He isn’t making statements about how terrible they are, or how wrong they are for doing it, etc. its just the news of the investigation starting.

If he said something like “Michigan is in deep trouble” or “ what Michigan did is abhorrent” then I think you’d have a point. Pundits will play it safe until the allegations have merit and then be outraged and act like they had no idea it was so bad and if they did they wouldn’t have said this is what every team does.

The allegation that South Carolina used Michigans stuff to win games shows not every team is doing this. But that hasn’t been proved yet per the investigation.
 

Jiggafini19Deux

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100% a cult. I was even willing to cut them slack initially for rallying around Paterno until the full story came out. But, even after everything came out they continue to ignore the facts and act like he was a saint.
The Happy Valley documentary was pretty shocking. It put onto the screen so much of what I'd read leading up to the film.

The enabling, the lack of self awareness of an entire community.
 

Wild Bill

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Anyone get the sense that the NCAA may be moving swiftly to mitigate the damage?
 

Huntr

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Anyone get the sense that the NCAA may be moving swiftly to mitigate the damage?


Doesn't really matter. Whenever the NCAA sends the notice of their findings, michigan has 90 days to respond. That's already past this year's national championship.
 

stlnd01

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Anyone get the sense that the NCAA may be moving swiftly to mitigate the damage?
One thing to remember is that the NCAA is now run by an actual politician. For better or for worse politicians understand the importance of public perception.
When he was Governor of Massachusetts, Charlie Baker was not at all the knee-jerk sort, and is actually a pretty level-headed and thoughtful guy. But he is also not an academic or a lawyer who might be more inclined toward a lengthy "process" over an actual outcome. He'll understand the downside risk of doing nothing.
 

rikkitikki08

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Regardless what happens, this puts a giant target on michigans back. They’ll lose atleast one game in the regular season. These things typically shake themselves out and I believe we won’t have to worry about them playing for a title
 

Free Manera

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I don't feel like looking it up but maybe someone knows - what is the standard for knowledge in these cases? I would expect the NCAA doesn't need evidence that Harbaugh actually knew, just that he should have known.

There is a big difference because the burden gets pretty hard to carry if you need proof of actual knowledge. He was probably smart enough to maintain plausible deniability. But I really doubt that he could escape punishment if it is the latter. The budgeting for scouting alone is probably enough.
 

Pops Freshenmeyer

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Doesn't really matter. Whenever the NCAA sends the notice of their findings, michigan has 90 days to respond. That's already past this year's national championship.
Something that may become significant later is that I don’t believe this applies to punishments for non-cooperation with the investigation itself.

If the NCAA wants to hammer UM quickly then they will have their chance if, say, Stalions doesn’t fully cooperate with the investigation.

Here is the relevant bylaw:

19.2.3 Immediate Penalties for Failure to Cooperate. The Committee on Infractions may prescribe immediate penalties during the investigation if an institution or individual fails to satisfy the responsibility to cooperate. In cases before the Committee on Infractions, the chair of the Committee on Infractions; a hearing panel generated at the request of the chair to review whether an institution or individual failed to satisfy the responsibility to cooperate; the chief hearing officer of a hearing panel assigned to review the case, if appointed by the chair; or the hearing panel, if requested by the chief hearing officer, may prescribe penalties. (Adopted: 8/8/18 effective 2/1/19, Revised: 1/23/19, 8/31/22 effective 1/1/23)
 
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