Silly Season 2014/2015 (Coaching Changes)

[IrishLax]

Holy shit this would be the best news ever!!!!!!!!!!

At worst, you switch Booker to DL (all his experience prior to ND is on that side of the ball) if you can't make an outside hire and bring in Quinn to coach TE/OC.

 

[ResLife Hero]

Was Elston key in landing any of our recruits, or was he one of the coaches that needs to do more? Outside of Alford and Booker, I'm not too familiar with how our individual coaches do on the trail.

 

[koonja]

Was Elston key in landing any of our recruits, or was he one of the coaches that needs to do more? Outside of Alford and Booker, I'm not too familiar with how our individual coaches do on the trail.

His biggest recruiting accomplishment to date is getting ND to finish a distant second/third to USC and Oregon for Juju Smith.

 

[woolybug25]

His biggest recruiting accomplishment to date is getting ND to finish a distant second/third to USC and Oregon for Juju Smith.

He flipped Barajas from PSU and 247 ranked him as the #19th best recruiter in the nation.

So there's that...

 

[koonja]

He flipped Barajas from PSU and 247 ranked him as the #19th best recruiter in the nation.

So there's that...

Barajas flipped himself.

The podcast pointed out that when Barajas committed to PSU, ND (apparently Eslton) stopped talking to him completeley, which was a major mistake. Thankfully he fell into our lap because he liked ND and wanted to be closer to home. From the way they made it sound, it had nothing to do with Elston or his effort. IT was dumb luck.

 

[PANDFAN]

His biggest recruiting accomplishment to date is getting ND to finish a distant second/third to USC and Oregon for Juju Smith.

Mike Elston Timeline Events

 

[IrishLax]

Elston gets a lot of "credit" due to his assigned area, when all reports basically suggest he barely does any recruiting and the local kids end up signing themselves if they're interested.

Like Koon said, with Barajas he completely dropped the ball and if Josh didn't really deep down want to be at ND and reach back out on his own we never would've contacted him again. That's sorta crazy to think about.

 

[woolybug25]

Barajas flipped himself.

The podcast pointed out that when Barajas committed to PSU, ND (apparently Eslton) stopped talking to him completeley, which was a major mistake. Thankfully he fell into our lap because he liked ND and wanted to be closer to home.

He was also the lead recruiter for Jaylon Smith. Not to mention Brandon Tiassum, Dew-Treadway and Justin Yoon.

It is what it is, Koon. He does what is asked of him from Kelly and nothing more. Not every coach on our staff can be Tosh. The other side of the coin is that his actual coaching performance has been pretty solid.

 

[IrishLax]

He was also the lead recruiter for Jaylon Smith. Not to mention Brandon Tiassum, Dew-Treadway and Justin Yoon.

It is what it is, Koon. He does what is asked of him from Kelly and nothing more. Not every coach on our staff can be Tosh. The other side of the coin is that his actual coaching performance has been pretty solid.

He'll be the "lead recruiter" for pretty much every local guy... word is, he does practically no recruiting on them. Which is part of the reason Tiassum even got an offer because he was too lazy to put in effort for higher rated prospects when there was a guy who actively wanted to jump on board. IMO, DL class is pretty atrocious this year (unless Tillery pans out).

 

[woolybug25]

He'll be the "lead recruiter" for pretty much every local guy... word is, he does practically no recruiting on them. Which is part of the reason Tiassum even got an offer because he was too lazy to put in effort for higher rated prospects when there was a guy who actively wanted to jump on board. IMO, DL class is pretty atrocious this year (unless Tillery pans out).

The fact remains that he is a good coach. He got the guys that he was asked to get and that is what Kelly wanted from him. There are guys like that on every staff in the country. Their expectation is to be a good coach and not eff up on the low hanging fruit of recruiting. Elston has done exactly that.

I just get frustrated with the black/white-instant gratification crowd that Koon is representing where every coach needs to recruit like Tosh and coach like Saban or they are complete shit. That's not reality and shouldn't be the expectation.

 

[koonja]

The fact remains that he is a good coach. He got the guys that he was asked to get and that is what Kelly wanted from him. There are guys like that on every staff in the country. Their expectation is to be a good coach and not eff up on the low hanging fruit of recruiting. Elston has done exactly that.

I just get frustrated with the black/white-instant gratification crowd that Koon is representing where every coach needs to recruit like Tosh and coach like Saban or they are complete shit. That's not reality and shouldn't be the expectation.

I just have a hard time when guys like Mike Frank (who's closer than anyone on here to the program) call out their work ethic and commitment.

Skill is one thing, want-to is another and I hate when the latter is lacking in almost any role.

 

[IrishLax]

The fact remains that he is a good coach. He got the guys that he was asked to get and that is what Kelly wanted from him. There are guys like that on every staff in the country. Their expectation is to be a good coach and not eff up on the low hanging fruit of recruiting. Elston has done exactly that.

How exactly is he a good coach? I don't think he develops the DL, at all. No one in 5 years has developed pass rushing moves or learned to use their hands to disengage. Outside of 2012 with Tuitt/Nix/KLM in a unique scheme that really fit those guys we've had below average DL play.

I just get frustrated with the black/white-instant gratification crowd that Koon is representing where every coach needs to recruit like Tosh and coach like Saban or they are complete shit. That's not reality and shouldn't be the expectation.

No, it's not realistic at all. That simultaneously doesn't mean that he's a good recruiter by any stretch, or a good coach, or that he's even doing his job to an acceptable level. Everyone can't be Tony Alford but everyone can at least be a Scott Booker.

 

[bkess8]

I just have a hard time when guys like Mike Frank (who's closer than anyone on here to the program) call out their work ethic and commitment.

Skill is one thing, want-to is another and I hate when the latter is lacking in almost any role.

This is what upsets me about the whole thing. People in the real world get fired for their lack of effort. If ND can find someone better to recruit in our area then sign him up IMO, we should be getting all of the local talent and EVERY recruit in state!

 

[woolybug25]

I just have a hard time when guys like Mike Frank (who's closer than anyone on here to the program) call out their work ethic and commitment.

Skill is one thing, want-to is another and I hate when the latter is lacking in almost any role.

I'm pretty sure your nature will attract you to anything sensationalist. You listen to one snip from Mike Frank and now suddenly you think Elston is the worst thing since fig pudding. The reality is that your expectation for every coach is unrealistic. Elston is a good "on the field" coach who recruits to the level that BK asks of him. Frank is out of his element on this topic, imo. Which is a strong statement from me considering I like Mike Frank.

Here is what Wiltfong said about Elston back in June:

“Mike Elston is always good for a couple big recruiting wins a year,” Wiltfong said. “He’s done some (good things) against some formidable foes.”

If you think that every coach on our staff is going to recruit like Tosh, then you need to look at the staffs of previous years. Elston would have been the best recruiter on Ty Willingham's staff, and that is a fact. On this staff, his recruiting efforts are an afterthought because that is all that is asked of him. BK hired him for his coaching abilities, not his recruiting abilities.

 

[koonja]

I'm pretty sure your nature will attract you to anything sensationalist. You listen to one snip from Mike Frank and now suddenly you think Elston is the worst thing since fig pudding. The reality is that your expectation for every coach is unrealistic. Elston is a good "on the field" coach who recruits to the level that BK asks of him. Frank is out of his element on this topic, imo. Which is a strong statement from me considering I like Mike Frank.

Here is what Wiltfong said about Elston back in June:



If you think that every coach on our staff is going to recruit like Tosh, then you need to look at the staffs of previous years. Elston would have been the best recruiter on Ty Willingham's staff, and that is a fact. On this staff, his recruiting efforts are an afterthought because that is all that is asked of him. BK hired him for his coaching abilities, not his recruiting abilities.

My nature? And on Mike Frank, who has a closer view of the program than him? And he tries to not be overly negative and he says that, but he's essentially slamming the efforts of the staff outside of Booker and Alford.

I don't expect every coach to recruit like Alford... But there's a big difference in being Alford and being called out by ISD, who has a $ interest in maintaining a relationship with the current staff. That's a pretty big statement when they need to staff's trust as part of their business. IMO.

 

[woolybug25]

This is what upsets me about the whole thing. People in the real world get fired for their lack of effort. If ND can find someone better to recruit in our area then sign him up IMO, we should be getting all of the local talent and EVERY recruit in state!

How in the hell does Mike Frank know what kind of effort goes into Elston's role? Just because in his mind he isn't putting effort on a kid he likes suddenly means that he is just sitting at home watching tv? I promise everyone that its not the case. The guy is a coach, and spends his time refining that, not recruiting as much.

That might sound bad, but like I said. Not every coach on a staff is expected to be a crack recruiter. They are required to be a good coach. Elston does that, and Mike Frank is attacking his character by acting like they are mutually inclusive. They are not.

 

[koonja]

Ok, lets step back because I'm assuming Mike Frank knows everything about the current program.

Does he really know what he's talking about? I know nothing about him other than he runs ISD.

 

[woolybug25]

My nature? And on Mike Frank, who has a closer view of the program than him? And he tries to not be overly negative and he says that, but he's essentially slamming the efforts of the staff outside of Booker and Alford.

I don't expect every coach to recruit like Alford... But there's a big difference in being Alford and being called out by ISD, who has a $ interest in maintaining a relationship with the current staff. That's a pretty big statement when they need to staff's trust as part of their business. IMO.

Yes... your nature. When have you ever not been the first person to jump on a sensationalist topic? (Fire Longo?)

It's your nature to put too much stock into one Power Hour and suddenly want to make broad generalizations about a man's work ethic and character. You don't think laterally about topics like these. You always hear a piece of information, make immediate judgement and then start puking opinion all over the board.

 

[Grahambo]

Instead of looking at who Elston was able to snag, who did Elston miss out on? Who was a realistic option for Elston and he completely dropped the ball? As for coaching, I think you could do worse but I certainly think you could do better.

Personally, I think its high time BK gives Tony Alford a Co-OC designation. I think he's earned the title. I'm not sure why Quinn is name people clamor for though. Its an honest question and not troll material. How much of it was Quinn and how much of it was Kelly, if that makes sense.

I would really prefer to find a true defensive coach should Elston leave instead of plugging the hole just so Jeff Quinn can come on board. Sure, Booker was a defensive coach prior to ND but he was a DB coach so not sure how that translates to the DL in terms of coaching. If you want better DL play, get a DL coach.

 

[koonja]

Yes... your nature. When have you ever not been the first person to jump on a sensationalist topic? (Fire Longo?)

It's your nature to put too much stock into one Power Hour and suddenly want to make broad generalizations about a man's work ethic and character. You don't think laterally about topics like these. You always hear a piece of information, make immediate judgement and then start puking opinion all over the board.

Longo being fired wasn't a sensational topic. Nobody was talking about it and I said I brought up out of no where why I don't think he's awesome.

Again, who's closer to Mike Frank on this board who we can get an opinion from? Furthermore, who has a business on the line that relies to some degree on relationships with the current staff, and is willing to call out their work ethic?

Sure, I don't personally know anything about the staffs efforts. But considering the above just happened, that is saying a ton.

 

[Grahambo]

Ok, lets step back because I'm assuming Mike Frank knows everything about the current program.

Does he really know what he's talking about? I know nothing about him other than he runs ISD.

To a degree, yes he does but he's also a business man making a living off his site and needs to keep it relevant, gain subscriptions etc. Its almost NSD so peak time to gain subs.

 

[bkess8]

How in the hell does Mike Frank know what kind of effort goes into Elston's role?

I am guess that he is using his results as a tool to judge his efforts.

Just because in his mind he isn't putting effort on a kid he likes suddenly means that he is just sitting at home watching tv?

Not what I was trying to say at all. If his job is to coach football and recruit young men to ND and he is not doing that to the best of his abilities then we should look else where.

Not every coach on a staff is expected to be a crack recruiter. They are required to be a good coach.

I don't want him to be a crack recruiter, but never want to hear about a lack of effort from anyone on our staff when it is their job to recruit/coach. Wooly in your opinion what makes him a good coach?

Elston does that, and Mike Frank is attacking his character by acting like they are mutually inclusive. They are not.

Wasn't trying to attack anyone just stating my opinion based off the opinion of others.

 

[IrishLax]

Ok, lets step back because I'm assuming Mike Frank knows everything about the current program.

Does he really know what he's talking about? I know nothing about him other than he runs ISD.

Mike Frank & Co. have very strong relationships with a number of coaches which is where a majority of the information comes from.

Any anecdote he's giving he probably heard from another assistant, or directly from a recruit/coach. For example, the Barajas thing (which is far from the first time I've heard it) probably came from Barajas himself.

 

[woolybug25]

Y'all are crazy. I gotta get back to work. But I hope those of you that are so quick to attack a man's character (work ethic is one of the pillars of character, imo) without knowing him or the expectations he has been given, one day get that same treatment.

For instant, it's 10am on a Tuesday. One could say that all of you posting today are lazy and bad workers. After all, shouldn't you be at work right now? See... the whole story isn't something that is black & white, and some of you should consider that when attacking a man's character.

 

[Ironman8]

Instead of looking at who Elston was able to snag, who did Elston miss out on? Who was a realistic option for Elston and he completely dropped the ball? As for coaching, I think you could do worse but I certainly think you could do better.

Personally, I think its high time BK gives Tony Alford a Co-OC designation. I think he's earned the title. I'm not sure why Quinn is name people clamor for though. Its an honest question and not troll material. How much of it was Quinn and how much of it was Kelly, if that makes sense.

I would really prefer to find a true defensive coach should Elston leave instead of plugging the hole just so Jeff Quinn can come on board. Sure, Booker was a defensive coach prior to ND but he was a DB coach so not sure how that translates to the DL in terms of coaching. If you want better DL play, get a DL coach.

Elston should be ALL OVER Josh King and Auston Robertson right now, and by all accounts, he really isn't on them like he should be. We may lose out on both guys, especially Robertson.

I think Elston is a decent coach, but I 100% agree with Lax in that he has clearly not shown an ability to help our kids develop a pass rushing repertoire that would help us get pressure with 4. Almost every single kid we have just bull rushes the OL on every single pass play - there is no technique to use their hands to perform any type of pass rushing move for the most part.

 

[koonja]

Y'all are crazy. I gotta get back to work. But I hope those of you that are so quick to attack a man's character (work ethic is one of the pillars of character, imo) without knowing him or the expectations he has been given, one day get that same treatment.

For instant, it's 10am on a Tuesday. One could say that all of you posting today are lazy and bad workers. After all, shouldn't you be at work right now? See... the whole story isn't something that is black & white, and some of you should consider that when attacking a man's character.

You're getting too philisophical. We're not attacking his character, I'm sure he's a good guy. If you'll accept the idea that he's not working hard (listen to the podcast if you have time) on the recruiting trail, that's an issue and is not a direct indictment of his character. Maybe he's not good at it? Maybe he doesn't realize how important it is? Maybe he's spending too much time watching film? Or maybe he is lazy? Whatever it is, it isn't good enough in Mike Frank's opinion (this is about the staff as a whole, not just Elston).

But the Barajas story on Elston is pretty bad.

 

[woolybug25]

You're getting too philisophical. We're not attacking his character, I'm sure he's a good guy. If you'll accept the idea that he's not working hard (listen to the podcast if you have time) on the recruiting trail, that's an issue and is not a direct indictment of his character. Maybe he's not good at it? Maybe he doesn't realize how important it is? Maybe he's spending too much time watching film? Or maybe he is lazy? Whatever it is, it isn't good enough in Mike Frank's opinion (this is about the staff as a whole, not just Elston).

But the Barajas story on Elston is pretty bad.

Yep... always black and white with you.

 

[koonja]

Yep... always black and white with you.

I'm actally presenting the opposite of black and white, and saying he could be a poor recruiter for a number of reasons, even outside of being lazy. Maybe it's priorities, maybe it's a focus on film, etc.

Did anyone who listened to the podcast not come away disappointed?

 

[tussin]

I say we hire Koon and Sean as full time recruiters. They would hit the pavement with a "never take no" attitude and a level of enthusiasm that hasn't been seen since the Holtz era.

Not to mention both have an elite ability to break down film that would be greatly beneficial to the staff.

 

[zelezo vlk]

There any good D line coaches in need of a job? I wouldn't mind an upgrade.