"SEC speed"

[koonja]

Do 40 times matter? Yes, it's a good measure of straight-line speed under ideal circumstances, and it allows talent scouts to compare one aspect of raw athletic ability between recruits.

Is it anywhere near as a important as most fans think it is? No. As Zibby pointed out, there's a lot of other stuff that goes into "football speed".

Though most of that other stuff can be coached, whereas raw athletic ability can't.

My point is that all things equal, 40 times win out! If you have one guy who's smart, reads coverage, takes good angles, but can't run a 4.4 of course he's going to be better than some guy who runs a 4.3 but can't spell his name backwards, walk and chew gum at the same time, etc...

But if you had two receivers, same size, same hands, same intelligence, but one runs a 4.6 and one runs a 4.4, who are you offering first? This is what all things equal, speed wins out means.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Intangibles like effort, intelligence, knowledge, ect dictate how fast a player operates on the field. If you dont know where to run, does it matter how fast? If your running a bad angle for a tackle does it help to be faster? ANSWERS? NO NO and NO

Fellow Pats fan here, and so like you I have seen players with the "intangibles" you mentioned outperform "workout warrior" types over and over again. I also generally agree with the idea that a forty time is not always a great indicator of football speed, and I have argued that point with people more times than I care to count.

All of that being said, I think it is wrong to be completely dismissive of forty times. If two players are the same in terms of the intangible you mentioned (which I value as well), wouldn't you take the guy that is .1 faster in the forty every time? I would. Just because you run a fast forty doesn't mean you are necessarily more likely to take a bad angle, give less effort, be less intelligent, possess less knowledge or instinct, etc.

Again, to the extent that your point is that Ferguson looks like a BALLER, regardless of what his forty time is, I totally, completely agree with you. I am high on Ferguson. Looks like a specimen and I think he will be good receiver at ND playing on the outside. I just wanted to voice a minor disagreement about how we are talking about forty times. They aren't the be-all-end-all, but they are not entirely meaningless either. They do tend to say something about a kid's top end speed.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Sorry, kuehnja, you made two salient posts saying much of what I said during the time I was typing mine. I need to remember the value of brevity.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

My point is that all things equal, 40 times win out! If you have one guy who's smart, reads coverage, takes good angles, but can't run a 4.4 of course he's going to be better than some guy who runs a 4.3 but can't spell his name backwards, walk and chew gum at the same time, etc...

But if you had two receivers, same size, same hands, same intelligence, but one runs a 4.6 and one runs a 4.4, who are you offering first? This is what all things equal, speed wins out means.

I was sort of defending you with my post, so I don't know why you're arguing with me.

For skill positions, speed is obviously the most important aspect of athleticism. Does that mean we shouldn't be excited about any RB, WR, or DB that can't post a 4.4 electronic? The basic point underlying your argument is obvious, but you take it too far.

 

[D-BOE34]

40 yd dash wouldn't be tested if it didn't translate. Just saying ...

I don't care how fast you are. If you can get 10 yards and catch the ball anytime it is within reach I will love you. If Ferg can out play the CB on him and snag all balls his way, then he will be just fine in my eyes!

 

[Ironman8]

40 yd dash wouldn't be tested if it didn't translate. Just saying ...

Is that why they have OL do verticals at combines as well?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Jeez this debate again...take it to another thread.

 

[D-BOE34]

Is that why they have OL do verticals at combines as well?

How explosive are they ... yes.

 

[koonja]

If someone mentions Ronald Darby, what's the fist thing that comes to mind? 4.31 or state track record? Track speed does matter, although it doesn't always translate to football.

 

[koonja]

Jeez this debate again...take it to another thread.

I agree, I've made my point and I'm out!

 

[Zibby32]

Ted Ginn Jr.....

 

[koonja]

I was sort of defending you with my post, so I don't know why you're arguing with me.

For skill positions, speed is obviously the most important aspect of athleticism. Does that mean we shouldn't be excited about any RB, WR, or DB that can't post a 4.4 electronic? The basic point underlying your argument is obvious, but you take it too far.

I wasn't arguing with you, I meant to quote a different post and accidently quoted yours, my bad.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If someone mentions Ronald Darby, what's the fist thing that comes to mind?

That he's faaast.

Fowty time matter!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

(I'm just going to unsuscribe for this thread.)

 

[koonja]

I had to do it. Anyone still think ND has SEC speed (woolybug, lol). Did you see a difference between LSU's defense and ours? We're still not there, gentlemen.

 

[NDPhilly]

Don't know why people thought that we already had SEC speed. The kids with the speed are freshman or seniors in high school

 

[irishff1014]

Boise said F your speed.

 

[koonja]

Don't know why people thought that we already had SEC speed. The kids with the speed are freshman or seniors in high school

I just want woolybug to notice this thread. We got into it a while ago, lol. He told me that the SEC didn't have more speed than ND (or at least significantly more), I told him he's crazy.

 

[blue in ohio]

The whole idea of SEC Speed is nonsense. The real reason the SEC has been able to dominate the Big Ten is D-Line. They tend to have bigger more athletic dlineman than most conferences.

Another myth. The sec hasn't exactly dominated the big ten over the past 15 years or so. I believe the record is around .500. Iowa, PSU, Wisconsin, and Michigan have done their share of damage to the SEC. Rewind back to the Mich/Fla game in 08 and then tell me who had the faster team. It took them 65 yards to run down Michigan's tight end from behind. Also watch Morgan Trent run their king speedster down from behind. Sure the SEC wants everyone to think they dominate everybody and when they lose it is a bunch of excuses. They surely haven't dominated the big ten. They have more teams which converts to more quality teams. The common match up is to put a 10 win sec team against the 4th place big ten team. CFB does much to stack the deck in favor of the sec. I love it when it backfires just as Iowa beat LSU a few years back.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Another myth. The sec hasn't exactly dominated the big ten over the past 15 years or so. I believe the record is around .500. Iowa, PSU, Wisconsin, and Michigan have done their share of damage to the SEC. Rewind back to the Mich/Fla game in 08 and then tell me who had the faster team. It took them 65 yards to run down Michigan's tight end from behind. Also watch Morgan Trent run their king speedster down from behind. Sure the SEC wants everyone to think they dominate everybody and when they lose it is a bunch of excuses. They surely haven't dominated the big ten. They have more teams which converts to more quality teams. The common match up is to put a 10 win sec team against the 4th place big ten team. CFB does much to stack the deck in favor of the sec. I love it when it backfires just as Iowa beat LSU a few years back.

As an Iowa native, I also loved it when Iowa beat LSU. But, I'm sorry, the SEC is just better. They get better players because they're recruiting out of a football rich area. It just is what it is...Iowa high school football can't hold a candle to Florida.

 

[GowerND11]

Ok I am jumping in this thread late. I want to see that SEC speed in the north in November. I am sick of these teams getting to play all season in the south. If your speed really is that amazing, it shouldn't matter where you play. Also I want to see a bowl game in the north. A major bowl game were we can pit an SEC team against a Big10/Notre Dame. We saw what the cold did to Miami.

 

[MacadamianNut]

So instead of playing in ideal weather conditions where <B>neither</B> team has an advantage, as is the case with most bowl games and all of the BCS bowls, you want to basically handicap a team by putting them in unfamiliar weather conditions and try to make an assessment based off that.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Anyone watching this MISS ST LSU game??

These defenses are sick.

We are starting to get these dynamic athletes on defense that the SEC seems to have.. More guys that, on paper, could play a multitude of positions.

Safety and corner are the positions of real need the next few years.. Nitro and Tee are ideal and adding Shaq at S would be huge.

As much as it sucks to compliment them.. SEC defense is the benchmark and I think we are recruiting closer and closer to that type of team.

 

[ErieIrish13]

Anyone watching this MISS ST LSU game??

These defenses are sick.

We are starting to get these dynamic athletes on defense that the SEC seems to have.. More guys that, on paper, could play a multitude of positions.

Safety and corner are the positions of real need the next few years.. Nitro and Tee are ideal and adding Shaq at S would be huge.

As much as it sucks to compliment them.. SEC defense is the benchmark and I think we are recruiting closer and closer to that type of team.

LSU's secondary scares me. Theyre like a bunch of ballseeking missiles.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

LSUs defense wants not only to stop you 3 n out. They want to disembowel you.

I want to see that fury from ND. I want to see fear in the opponent's eyes. I want everyone watching the game near me.. to fear me! Pumped! Cousins needs to be sacked 8 or more times.

 

[ColinKSU]

LSUs defense wants not only to stop you 3 n out. They want to disembowel you.

I want to see that fury from ND. I want to see fear in the opponent's eyes. I want everyone watching the game near me.. to fear me! Pumped! Cousins needs to be sacked 8 or more times.

Can you imagine an LSU defensive lineman lying on his back and yanking on Denard Robinson's ankles to bring him down?

That's one of the saddest plays I think I've ever seen.

 

[IrishLax]

Anyone watching this MISS ST LSU game??

These defenses are sick.

We are starting to get these dynamic athletes on defense that the SEC seems to have.. More guys that, on paper, could play a multitude of positions.

Safety and corner are the positions of real need the next few years.. Nitro and Tee are ideal and adding Shaq at S would be huge.

As much as it sucks to compliment them.. SEC defense is the benchmark and I think we are recruiting closer and closer to that type of team.

Yeah........ so much great defense in that South Carolina vs. Georgia game..... or Georgia vs. Boise State.... or Auburn vs. Mississippi State.... or Auburn vs. UTAH FREAKING STATE.

Every year there are a couple teams in the SEC that play truly elite defense. This year those teams are LSU and Alabama... and the jury is out on a couple others at the moment like Florida. Everyone else is quite average.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Yeah........ so much great defense in that South Carolina vs. Georgia game..... or Georgia vs. Boise State.... or Auburn vs. Mississippi State.... or Auburn vs. UTAH FREAKING STATE.

Every year there are a couple teams in the SEC that play truly elite defense. This year those teams are LSU and Alabama... and the jury is out on a couple others at the moment like Florida. Everyone else is quite average.

You're citing specific games. What I bolded is closer to what I was saying. As a conference they are the benchmark. The BigXII rivals them but the past 5 National Champions speak louder.

I probably should have used LSU specifically because that is what spurred my post.. after watching this game.

 

[BeauBenken]

LSUs defense wants not only to stop you 3 n out. They want to disembowel you.

Is that the ****ing Manticore? lmao

 

[D-BOE34]

Point ... were not SEC level. We all know that. BK future is finding the way to the top of the depth chart quick though. That is what we need to understand. Honestly, I think we will not match SEC speed anytime soon but we will match the same amount of boys to the ball. Which would mean a better discipline overall. I would take that over the SEC speed any day.


Disclaimer: SEC speed with discipline would be best. GOT THAT!