Scholarships

BostonND

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If we take back all 14 fifth year seniors (which obviously we won't) and don't get any transfers (who knows?), then we're already at the 85-scholarship limit. Realistically, I'd figure we'd want to take back at least half of the fifth year candidates, which doesn't leave that many more scholarships left for this class.

Why isn't anybody talking about this? Which positions should those last scholarships go to? What if there aren't enough spots when all is said and done?

We've come a long way from the days of Ty-aftermath and the giant '06 class.
 

D-BOE34

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I'm not going to fish around for them but we have several threads about this topic. Been a while since it's been brought up I believe. Anyway, I think we will bring back just a few 5th year guys. If Crist has a big year I think we bring him back and then a few other key spots. I say we take around 10 more guys in this class.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Potential 5th years for 2012:
  1. Dayne Crist (QB)
  2. John Goodman (WR)
  3. Deion Walker (WR)
  4. Braxton Cave (C)
  5. Mike Golic Jr. (C/G)
  6. Lane Clelland (G)
  7. Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE)
  8. Sean Cwynar (DT)
  9. Brandon Newman (DT)
  10. Hafis Williams (DT)
  11. Davis Posluszny (ILB)
  12. Anthony McDonald (ILB)
  13. Dan McCarthy (FS)
  14. Jamoris Slaughter (SS)

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter are virtual locks for a 5th year. Crist, Golic, Goodman, and Cwynar are very likely to get invited back if they have a decent showing in 2011. The others are all long shots; each will need a strong campaign this season to justify a 5th year invite.
 
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TerryTate

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We're going to take around 21-23 recruits this year I think. So do the math on 5th years / transfers that way.
 

Whiskeyjack

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We're going to take around 21-23 recruits this year I think. So do the math on 5th years / transfers that way.

That would mean only three to five 5th years.

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter. Two of Crist, Goodman, Golic, or Cwynar depending on performance.
 

D-BOE34

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I didn't even take into consideration the EE. We can take 6. With assuming we take 21 to 24 recruits, would that include the EE that count towards last year?
 

Whiskeyjack

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I didn't even take into consideration the EE. We can take 6. With assuming we take 21 to 24 recruits, would that include the EE that count towards last year?

Yes. The restriction we're working under regarding 5th years is the 85 team max, not the 25 per class max. EEs won't have any effect on 5th years.
 

BGIF

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That would mean only three to five 5th years.

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter. Two of Crist, Goodman, Golic, or Cwynar depending on performance.

Or depending on attrition, (transfers, academics, Res Life, career injuries).
 

BGIF

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Yes. The restriction we're working under regarding 5th years is the 85 team max, not the 25 per class max. EEs won't have any effect on 5th years.

They will on the 85. You still have to have a slot available.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Or depending on attrition, (transfers, academics, Res Life, career injuries).

True. That could open the door for more marginal 5th year prospects like Walker, Williams, and McCarthy.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Potential 5th years for 2012:
  1. Dayne Crist (QB)
  2. John Goodman (WR)
  3. Deion Walker (WR)
  4. Braxton Cave (C)
  5. Mike Golic Jr. (C/G)
  6. Lane Clelland (G)
  7. Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE)
  8. Sean Cwynar (DT)
  9. Brandon Newman (DT)
  10. Hafis Williams (DT)
  11. Davis Posluszny (ILB)
  12. Anthony McDonald (ILB)
  13. Dan McCarthy (FS)
  14. Jamoris Slaughter (SS)

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter are virtual locks for a 5th year. Crist, Golic, Goodman, and Cwynar are very likely to get invited back if they have a decent showing in 2011. The others are all long shots; each will need a strong campaign this season to justify a 5th year invite.

I'm thinking Crist, KLM, Cave, Golic JR, McCarthy & Slaughter get invited back. Remember we need McCarthy back for depth and experience at safety.
Possibly coming back Cwyner & Hafis.
Everyone else long shots at the moment.
 

Whiskeyjack

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They will on the 85. You still have to have a slot available.

My point was that the 5th year analysis is dictated by the 85 team max, and not the 25 per class max. Regardless of how many of the 21-23 anticipated recruits from this class EE, it won't affect who & how many receive 5th year invites.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I'm thinking Crist, KLM, Cave, Golic JR, McCarthy & Slaughter get invited back. Remember we need McCarthy back for depth and experience at safety.
Possibly coming back Cwyner & Hafis.
Everyone else long shots at the moment.

If Terry is right and Kelly is shooting for 21-23 in this class, then we're looking at no more than three to five 5th year seniors.

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter are locks for obvious reasons. Crist, Golic, Jr., and McCarthy are all conditional: (1) if Crist gets passed or hurt, he's done; (2) Golic, Jr. is a good backup at C/ OG, but it would be tough to justify turning away an elite 2012 OL recruit to bring him back for a 5th year; (3) McCarthy is a mystery, as I have no doubt idea what the staff thinks of him. He's played in 12 career games and has lots of scout/ special teams experience, but he's never started and always seems to be injured.

Since these are all Weis recruits, unless they've proven themselves on the field, I think the presumption has to be that Kelly would prefer a new 2012 recruit of his choosing.

I'll go with Crist, KLM, Cave, Slaughter, and Cwynar.
 

Anchorman

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Even without a 5th year, those seniors still count during their spring semester, correct? So EE might be very limited.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Even without a 5th year, those seniors still count during their spring semester, correct? So EE might be very limited.

I don't know if that's the case. If eligibility runs out at the end of the season, then those guys would drop off the roster before any EEs would step foot on campus.
 
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Dayne Crist (QB)
John Goodman (WR)
Deion Walker (WR)
Braxton Cave (C)
Mike Golic Jr. (C/G)
Lane Clelland (G)
Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE)
Sean Cwynar (DT)

Brandon Newman (DT)
Hafis Williams (DT)
Davis Posluszny (ILB)
Anthony McDonald (ILB)
Dan McCarthy (FS)
Jamoris Slaughter (SS)


Those are the guys I see coming back.
 

Rhode Irish

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Dayne Crist (QB)
John Goodman (WR)
Deion Walker (WR)
Braxton Cave (C)
Mike Golic Jr. (C/G)
Lane Clelland (G)
Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE)
Sean Cwynar (DT)

Brandon Newman (DT)
Hafis Williams (DT)
Davis Posluszny (ILB)
Anthony McDonald (ILB)
Dan McCarthy (FS)
Jamoris Slaughter (SS)


Those are the guys I see coming back.

Agree. In order:

Slaughter
KLM
Cave
Crist
McCarthy
 

Old Man Mike

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I'll play a wild hand at this. Five guys return for fifth years.
A). Braxton Cave --- far and away the most essential of the 5th years unless Dayne not only takes charge of the offense but does so in AA quality style.Cave anchors our line and we will need him to stabilize things as we lose our right side.

B). Dayne Crist --- if he finishes as the starting QB, does not get seriously injured, and actually WANTS to play another year. He could, afterall, roll the dice on the NFL rather than risking a career damaging injury.

C). Jamoris Slaughter --- normally I wouldn't go here, as I think that he has yet to prove what he can do, but losing Harrison, Gary, and Robert, we're going to need both the remaining battle-tested vets to support the novice corners.

D). KLM --- with Lynch, Kona, Stephon et al, I'd normally say, well, maybe not to a 5th year, but my guts tell me that we're going to see near All-American play out of KLM this year. He has both the athleticism and the attitude for that.

E). Sean Cwynar --- still VERY important for us. He and Big Lou give us the rock-in-the-middle that Diaco requires. Cwynar is very good. All NTs have a tough time getting noticed, but his trench time has been solid, and we have no one else we can be sure of.

Any of those other guys would have to bloom. I say no to McCarthy because we must get time for the rookies and right now he's in the way. I regretfully say no to Golic for the same reason, plus the scholarship numbers noose is really tight. Worst, I regretfully say no to Hafis, because he has proved that he is a warrior in the D-line, and I'd like to honor that, particularly because he has actually played well. I just hope that if some of our guys want a fifth year and we can't fit them in, they can find a willing program like Steve Paskorz did with WVU. That would ease my conscience a little.
 

dshans

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That would mean only three to five 5th years.

Cave, KLM, and Slaughter. Two of Crist, Goodman, Golic, or Cwynar depending on performance.

... and on whether they are interested, are invited by the coaching staff and qualify to enroll in a graduate school program.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I don't see McCarthy coming back after this year. The depth problem will be solved. Experience will be the only issue. McCarthy doesn't bring much experience (12 career games). Nothing against him, I just see the staff choosing a '12 recruit over him at this point.

Crist is a wait-and-see 5th yr IMO. He's gotta step up his game this year and prove he's the true #1. As much as I'd hate to see a new starter for the 2012 schedule, it'd pain me to see someone back there who can't cut it (eventhough they may have the accolades or experience). The flip-side is that he very well could play outstanding this season and choose the NFL. We'll see.

Cwynar I think comes back if we don't land a NT/SDE this cycle. We have players who could develop into that position, but not likely within one year. Even if we do land a prospect, he could still come back. I feel he and Big Lou are essential to our DL.

With that said, I believe Crist, Cwynar, Slaughter, Cave, and KLM will be back. (Assuming all of these guys want to come back)
 

CanadalovesND

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I don't see McCarthy coming back after this year. The depth problem will be solved. Experience will be the only issue. McCarthy doesn't bring much experience (12 career games). Nothing against him, I just see the staff choosing a '12 recruit over him at this point.

Crist is a wait-and-see 5th yr IMO. He's gotta step up his game this year and prove he's the true #1. As much as I'd hate to see a new starter for the 2012 schedule, it'd pain me to see someone back there who can't cut it (eventhough they may have the accolades or experience). The flip-side is that he very well could play outstanding this season and choose the NFL. We'll see.

Cwynar I think comes back if we don't land a NT/SDE this cycle. We have players who could develop into that position, but not likely within one year. Even if we do land a prospect, he could still come back. I feel he and Big Lou are essential to our DL.

With that said, I believe Crist, Cwynar, Slaughter, Cave, and KLM will be back. (Assuming all of these guys want to come back)

If he Crist does opt for the NFL after a season, in which he "lights it up", I can't see him as a high draft pick, he's too much of a liability, two major knee surgeries and one good year are not very appealing to NFL teams, but thats not to say he wont be drafted.

I dont see Crist leaving, especially since we cane make a BCS run in 2012.
 

irishog77

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Another thing to keep in mind about all this is that if Te'o and Martin (or even Wood) have the type of season we all are hoping for and expecting from them...they could leave for the NFL. While it's all but a certainty that all won't leave, I'd be surprised if at least one guy did not leave early. KLM could also be thrown in there for NFL consideration (again, considering the type of year we are expecting and hoping for). Hell, Tyler E and Theo R will be draft-eligble after this year...and who knows, maybe one of them (or both) have a MONSTER year.

While I always like the discussions and hypotheticals in all things Irish football, way it's too difficult to predict the amount of scholarships available next year at this point. Just my opinion.
 

Domina Nostra

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All barring injuries of course...

Their's if they want it:
Dayne Crist (QB) (C'mon, you really think they'd send a 5-star, team-leader, QB who is 100% effort, 100% positive!)
Braxton Cave (C) (need)
Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE) (stud)
Jamoris Slaughter (SS) (need)

Very good chance (in order):
1A. Sean Cwynar (DT) (one of these two seems like they have to stay)
1B. Hafis Williams (DT)
2. Mike Golic Jr. (C/G) (may be a need if Martin or Hanratty does not learn to snap)
4. John Goodman (WR) (make or break year, has all the tools, need depth)

Who knows what they are like healthy:
Anthony McDonald (ILB) (the upside is here for these two)
Dan McCarthy (FS)

Show me something:
Deion Walker (WR) (what if he actually gets his act together?)
Lane Clelland (G)
Brandon Newman (DT)
Davis Posluszny (ILB)

My prediction:

1) Dayne Crist
2) Braxton Cave
3) Kapron Lewis-Moore
4) Jamoris Slaughter
5) Sean Cwynar
6) John Goodman
7) Mike Golic Jr.???


And I think Manti, Martin, and Kap will stay if the 2012 team looks like it has a shot at greatness. My gut says they all want to.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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My prediction:

1) Dayne Crist
2) Braxton Cave
3) Kapron Lewis-Moore
4) Jamoris Slaughter
5) Sean Cwynar
6) John Goodman
7) Mike Golic Jr.???

The 2012 recruiting class + 5th years can't exceed 26. By taking 7 5th years, we'll be limited to 19 in this class; which I suppose is possible if we miss on a bunch of elite recruits and some of these guys step up big this season. But since these are all Weis guys, and given Kelly's prowess as a recruiter, I think three to five 5th years is much more likely.

Their's if they want it:
Dayne Crist (QB) (C'mon, you really think they'd send a 5-star, team-leader, QB who is 100% effort, 100% positive!)
Braxton Cave (C) (need)
Kapron Lewis-Moore (DE) (stud)
Jamoris Slaughter (SS) (need)

If Crist gets passed on the depth chart or has another serious injury, he's gone. Agree that the other three are locks.

Very good chance (in order):
1A. Sean Cwynar (DT) (one of these two seems like they have to stay)
1B. Hafis Williams (DT)
2. Mike Golic Jr. (C/G) (may be a need if Martin or Hanratty does not learn to snap)
4. John Goodman (WR) (make or break year, has all the tools, need depth)

Cwynar is very likely invited back, but the other three would surprise me.

Who knows what they are like healthy:
Anthony McDonald (ILB) (the upside is here for these two)
Dan McCarthy (FS)

Show me something:
Deion Walker (WR) (what if he actually gets his act together?)
Lane Clelland (G)
Brandon Newman (DT)
Davis Posluszny (ILB)

This far down the list, chances of getting a 5th year are very bad. McCarthy and Walker have the advantage of playing at positions where we're very thin, so if one of them has a monster 2011 campaign, I could see it.

And I think Manti, Martin, and Kap will stay if the 2012 team looks like it has a shot at greatness. My gut says they all want to.

Agreed. I'd feel better about 2012 if our schedule wasn't such a nightmare.
 

GoldenIsThyFame

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The 2012 recruiting class + 5th years can't exceed 26. By taking 7 5th years, we'll be limited to 19 in this class; which I suppose is possible if we miss on a bunch of elite recruits and some of these guys step up big this season. But since these are all Weis guys, and given Kelly's prowess as a recruiter, I think three to five 5th years is much more likely.

But EEs don't count for 2012 so we could take more than 19. Correct?
 

BleedBlueGold

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My opinion on 5th years is that you can come back if you're a returning starter, you provide absolutely crucial depth, or the recruiting class is small enough to warrant the scholarship regardless of the first two mentioned (even if vets don't play, they're still a valuable part of coaching up the youngins).

With that said the 5th years should be Crist, Cave, KLM, Cwynar, and Slaughter. Any more than that will take away from a recruiting class that is looking to be 20+
 

pkt77242

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IMO, I think it is unlikely that Crist is back next year.

60% chance that Crist has a great year (think 62%+ completion percent, 3000 yards, 30 td's and 8 int) and then goes pro. He can't afford to come back for a fifth year because if he gets hurt again, he would be done.
20% chance he loses his starting job to Rees (or very unlikely to Hendrix) or gets injured. This would probably lead to him not getting a fifth year.
20% chance that he is good enough to keep his job but not good enough to go pro and gets invited back for a fifth year.

So in summary, I would say 80% chance that he is not back next year and only a 20% chance that he returns.
 
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