Ryder Cup

irishtrain

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Anyone else watching this? Euros making a hard charge today. Not looking too good right now, all tied up. Phil just dropped to Rose, Rory won, Donald won, etc. Hopefully Dufner holds on here, but I'm wondering if this will come down to Tiger's match. How crazy would that be?
I watched all 3 days-avid golfer who is stung pretty good by this. Euros earned it of course but that was a collapse. Felt funny from the get go today. If you watched the press conference after the closing ceremonies you would understand why some of the Euros are disliked-pretty disrespectfull but like evrything else to the winners go the spoils or the last obnoxius word.
 

tadman95

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What is particularly irritating is at least four of the Euro's live in the states, especially that prick Poulter. HE lied about his handicap to even get on the tour to start with.
 

gkIrish

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First, I'm surprised Molinari didn't just pick up his ball and concede the hole. Punk move to play it out.

But when he didn't Tiger should've played it out at 100%. He got punked by continuing to play but doing so half ***. Either walk off the course and say the competition is over, or play it out with some effort/focus.

And, as deise mike pointed out, the idea that the way that last half of a hole concluded "doesn't matter" is pretty crazy. Billions of dollars change hands on "meaningless touchdowns" or things like what happened today.

It didn't matter to the golfers. Athletes should not and do not give a damn what money gamblers lose or win. And I'm a big gambler.
 

irishtrain

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What is particularly irritating is at least four of the Euro's live in the states, especially that prick Poulter. HE lied about his handicap to even get on the tour to start with.
Its more than 4, more like 7/8. It did hurt to see that peacock struting around but the fact remains that our guys felt the pressure and did not respond. I can tell you one thing for sure-I would like to see a less friendly team in Scottland. Tiger takes so much crap from people and press that it makes me nausous. Love said that at one time he had made more birdies and would have had the lowest aggregate score than anyone in the matches but you dont here that only people getting on his #$@. He was almost heroic on the last 6 holes yesterday expect for the euros pulling rabits out of a hat. One last thing would someone please shut Faldo's mouth. These guys come over here and simply use America for their own gain. I respect them not. Farrity is the one who gets it-he became a citizen and speaks highly of this great country. The other guys are just opportunistic users. Hell if you like Europe that much go work for the BBC.
 

NDinFL

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I'm shocked that absolutely everyone here disagrees with me so strongly. I probably need to play more golf.

I agree...

It's called sportsmanship...

Don't be a sore loser, OR winner.

The P in PGA stands for Professional, so finish like one
 

ND NYC

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what a choke job.

did rory tip the trooper who got him to the course on time? imagine if he didnt make it on time? he would have never, EVER lived that down.
would have haunted him his emtire career.

stricker and furyk need to stay away form sharp objects...
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I'm shocked that absolutely everyone here disagrees with me so strongly. I probably need to play more golf.

I was there on 18 when this all went down. Can't give Tiger any **** for the way he played it out. He was in the fairway when Kaymer made his putt. It was over, end of story. They came here to win, not tie. Molinari could have just as easily conceded the point to Tiger. It was brutal. No fault to Tiger at all.
 

ohara831

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Tip my hat to the Euros. Played better on Sunday and the Americans folded like a house of cards. Hated it, but it was amazing to watch the momentum take over. Ian Poulter just fired up the Euros and they took off. He's an arrogant little *****, but the US could have used him, for sure.
 

irishff1014

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You must have forgotten to list the pairings you thought were dumb and how they should have been different.

I think Dustin Johnson & Luke Donald would have been a better pairing. I like Bubba but he is to aggressive of a golfer to play with Luke. Bradley held his own on with Rory but still think they are 2 different levels. Switch him with either Zach Johnson or Phil Mickelson. Atleast ways they have more experience. Not to mention Zach i believe is a very underrated golfer. And Mickelson always seems to play with the level of his competiton. I was watching but went on a house fire so i didn't get to see later in the day how exactly it played out.
 

ohara831

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I hate that the decision was made to sit Bradley and Mickelson in the Saturday afternoon round. Those two were dominant. I understand the pressure Love was under to get Tiger and Stricker back out there after sitting them Saturday morning, but Love could have decided to sit someone else. Bradley and Mickelson were rolling. And that lost point Saturday afternoon was a killer IMO.
 

IrishLax

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Here's an ESPN article on the ending of the Ryder Cup with regards to Molinari and Woods. I think it's pretty good:

The Europeans had just staged a remarkable comeback at Medinah Country Club and had assured themselves of retaining the Ryder Cup.

But they had not assured themselves of victory over the United States.

It is an odd part of the Ryder Cup that allows for the competition to end in a tie. If it does, the team that last won the Cup retains it.

But isn't a tie better than a loss?

With Kaymer on the 18th green, standing in the fairway waiting to play were Tiger Woods and Francesco Molinari. Woods led the match 1 up. If Woods wins his match, the Ryder Cup ends in a 14-14 tie.

Yes, the Europeans retain the Cup, but the Americans could still stay they didn't lose the Ryder Cup.

Why wouldn't that matter?

The chaos on the 18th green carried on for several minutes. Dozens of people from the European entourage were there, as well as media conducting interviews. If it didn't matter, perhaps Woods and Molinari should have walked off, Woods getting the point and the match ending in a tie.

Molinari wanted to do just that.

"I thought about giving him the half in the fairway [on the hole], but then the captain [Jose Maria Olazabal] was there; they told me, it's not the same, winning or halving, so get focused and do your best," Molinari said. "And that's what I did. So I basically just tried to win the hole, to win the tournament, basically."

So Olazabal thought it was important to play for a win rather than a tie. And that's what Molinari did -- but only after Woods seemingly gave up. Woods played his approach to the 18th, which came to rest on the fringe, then chipped up and saw his ball lip out and roll to some 4 feet away. It was outside of Molinari, who had lagged a birdie putt to 3 feet.

Woods said he rushed the par putt because he didn't think it mattered anymore -- then conceded Molinari's putt. But if Woods had parred, the match would have ended 14-14. Instead, the Europeans won 14½-13½.

"You come here as a team, you win or lose as a team," said Woods, who went 0-3-1 and saw his Ryder Cup record drop to 13-17-3. "And it's pointless to even finish. … I've been out there twice when that's happened, and it's a tough spot to be in because you know you've got to finish out the match, even though it's useless because our team didn't get the Cup and they did.

"So 18 was just, hey, get this over with, congratulations to the European team, they played fantastic today and they deserve the Cup."

Captain Davis Love III said that the mission was to get the Cup and that, without that accomplished, the rest was of little consequence.

But did he consider the feelings of the four rookies on his team? Keegan Bradley, Brandt Snedeker, Jason Dufner and Webb Simpson had nothing to do with the U.S. defeat in Wales two years ago. And yet, that is the only reason a tie did the U.S no good at Medinah.

It's like the Major League Baseball All-Star Game deciding home-field advantage in the World Series. What does one have to do with the other?

"I think it's very awkward," Love said. "I saw some confusion on both sides. What do we do here? It's over. There was a lot of disappointment, a lot of emotion on our side. I saw Molinari looking around, what do I do here?

"I just think when it's over, we all shake hands and go. It doesn't really matter the score. They had the Cup, and they knew it. They were celebrating while we were trying to get out of Tiger's way and Molinari's way to hit shots. It was very awkward."

It got even more so as both Woods and Molinari played on, Woods missing his par putt that would have meant a tie, then conceding Molinari's putt that meant a loss.

Only twice in Ryder Cup history has the event ended in a tie, and, although the circumstances were far different, you can bet that the Great Britain & Ireland team was thrilled with the 16-16 score in 1969 even though the Americans retained the Cup.

That was the famous "Concession" when Jack Nicklaus conceded a putt to England's Tony Jacklin on the final green. Had Jacklin missed the short putt, he would have lost his match to Nicklaus and the U.S. would have won. Instead, they halved the match and the overall Ryder Cup ended in a tie -- with the U.S. retaining the Cup.

But since Europe had not won since 1957, it was a huge accomplishment to even tie.

In 1989, the Americans won the last four singles matches to earn a 14-14 tie. Europe kept the Cup, but it hardly felt like a defeat to the United States.

Perhaps there should be no ties at the Ryder Cup. In the early days of the Presidents Cup, they had a playoff stipulation that came to fruition in 2003 in South Africa. After the teams finished in a tie, Woods and Ernie Els went out for a riveting sudden-death playoff. The pressure was excruciating, and both players matched each other shot for shot, putt for putt. It helped put the Presidents Cup on the map.

Darkness eventually ended the playoff, and the sides agreed to share the Cup. Later, the Presidents Cup stipulated that all singles matches would be played to sudden death if the outcome was not decided to attempt to avoid an overall tie.

That wouldn't have worked Sunday, as the Woods-Molinari match was the only one that was halved.

Perhaps, however, had such a rule been in place, everyone would have known to let it play out.

Winning the Cup is the main thing, obviously, but the PGA of America's record book accounts for ties. The U.S. leads the overall competition 25-12-2. The two ties were not credited as a victory for either side even though one retained the Cup.

If so, the record would read 26-13.

It seems the Americans should have played for the tie and been allowed to do so. Sunday's proceedings certainly felt like a loss, but it's a three-day competition and the U.S. would have ended it with just as many points as the Europeans.

Awkward, indeed.

Basically gets at what I was upset about and what most of you thought I was crazy to be upset about. What is the proper protocol at the end there? Molinari says he wanted to just halve the hole and call it a day. Then he was talked into "playing for the win" by his captain. Woods admits he basically didn't give a crap after the Europeans clinched the tie because it meant they got to retain the cup.

It seems the vast majority of people share the same sentiment as Woods... that it didn't matter at all what happened at the end. I looked at it more like the Euro a-hole: in sports, you play to win... not tie-and-retain.

And now this morning half of the commentary on sports talk radio includes a narrative on Tiger "not winning a single match" and crap like that. Which is why I was incredibly frustrated yesterday watching that conclusion. In my opinion, as soon as Molinari opted not to concede the hole while chilling in a fairway bunker, I don't think it was appropriate for Woods to say "eff it" and close out the hole how he did.
 

gkIrish

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I would look for articles that have the opposite viewpoint but I don't think they exist because you and a few others (like the writer of that article) are making an issue out of nothing. Not worth writing about IMO
 

twig21

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There is no way the Captains know who their picks are going to play against. Each Captain turns in their lineup 1 thru 12, so they don't know who each player is going up against, so no one can say that yesterday pairings were bad. Molinari is young and got caught up in the moment, having said that, he wanted to tell Tiger to pick it up and a vice captain told him to finish the hole. So you cannot blame Molinari. As far as Euro's living in the US, are you going to make that point about NBA and NHL foreigners living in the US or all the Latin ball players playing in the Major Leagues? Also Tiger and alot of PGA Professionals go to Dubai and Europe in order to make alot of appearance fees before they even tee it up. There is just alot of opportunity around the globe in all sports. The Americans just were on the losing end of a remarkable comeback. I bet before the rally yesterday everybody was saying what a great Captain Davis Love was.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I hate that the decision was made to sit Bradley and Mickelson in the Saturday afternoon round. Those two were dominant. I understand the pressure Love was under to get Tiger and Stricker back out there after sitting them Saturday morning, but Love could have decided to sit someone else. Bradley and Mickelson were rolling. And that lost point Saturday afternoon was a killer IMO.

The reason to sit them was history. Former Captain Paul Azinger told DLIII that 80% of players that don't sit out one of the rounds on the first 2 days don't win on Sun. By resting Phil and KB, he gave them rest in hopes of increasing chances to win 2 points on Sun instead of 1 on Sat. They all knew it and Phil told him he needed the rest. Poulter and Rory bucked that trend for the Euros but it was smart to do it. US had every opportunity to win as they rolled things out. This is not on Davis Love III.
 
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Me2SouthBend

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I think Dustin Johnson & Luke Donald would have been a better pairing. I like Bubba but he is to aggressive of a golfer to play with Luke. Bradley held his own on with Rory but still think they are 2 different levels. Switch him with either Zach Johnson or Phil Mickelson. Atleast ways they have more experience. Not to mention Zach i believe is a very underrated golfer. And Mickelson always seems to play with the level of his competiton. I was watching but went on a house fire so i didn't get to see later in the day how exactly it played out.

The US captain can't look at the Euro line up and determine who he wants to pair his players against. Bubba always gets sent out early because he has nervous energy and has asked to play early, doesn't want to wait around, Love realized that it is smart to listen to that and sent him out. It worked Fri and Sat. Zach isn't under rated, he is one of the top 12 golfers in the US, thus he's on the Ryder Cup team. Love didn't suddenly screw things up on day 3, his players just folded down the stretch.
 
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