Rumored Violations

[BGIF]

Golson. Not even close.

Yeah, I missed Golson on Special Teams last year. I missed his Pass Rush in the injury riddled Preseason Best DLine in college football, I missed his sure handed tackling at Safety, and I missed all those interceptions he made as a CB.

 

[RDU Irish]

We will see soon enough. QB is the most important position on the field. A dynamic play maker can make up for a lot of other deficiencies. That said, CB is the only spot that moves into deficiency category as a result of the missing four. I don't see the huge drop off at DL or WR which is a testament to improved depth.

If we were talking 2012 Golson vs. these four, I give preference to these four. Golson needed an elite defense to squeak out a lot of wins. The choice for 2014 is more nuanced. IF Golson has progressed to being a top 25 QB I call it a wash. If he has progressed to a top 10 QB, it is a much better to have him than the other four. The value of elite play from the QB position is invaluable.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah, I missed Golson on Special Teams last year. I missed his Pass Rush in the injury riddled Preseason Best DLine in college football, I missed his sure handed tackling at Safety, and I missed all those interceptions he made as a CB.

We will see far less of a drop off in those areas this year if all four guys don't play than we did at quarterback last year. And quarterback is such an important piece of the puzzle. I get where you're coming from, but I'd still say Golson.

 

[koonja]

ok intel says it has the latest on this?????

Anyone want to be a hero?

 

[OhioIrish]

Question:

Which loss is greater for team success. Everett Golson suspension last year or the 4 players suspended this year? Let's assume all four players will not play this season.

To me, Golson is the bigger loss, but more because of the position he played and less because of who he is as a player (which is damn good). The loss of the "4" does not require a schematic change to the extent the loss of Golson did.

Also, the loss of Golson prevented him from another year of seasoning, I think he would be receiving some Heisman talk this year had he played last year. In all likelihood, all four of this years guys would be gone after this season; and except KVR, all have maxed their potential IMO.

 

[tussin]

Anyone want to be a hero?

So far very little incriminating evidence against the players. However, the Intel notes that ND doesn't necessarily need that to drop the hammer. The investigation started with concerns about one proofreading source, but has since greatly expanded to include a deeper dive involving multiple individuals. No firm timeline on when it will wrap up, but with students back on campus it could speed up a bit.

Some people in power have really pumped the breaks on the whole vacating wins angle. ISD believes they would only vacate in an "institutional control" situation (i.e. systematic issue over a long period of time).

 

[koonja]

So far very little incriminating evidence against the players. However, the Intel notes that ND doesn't necessarily need that to drop the hammer. The investigation started with concerns about one proofreading source, but has since greatly expanded to include a deeper dive involving multiple individuals. No firm timeline on when it will wrap up, but with students back on campus it could speed up a bit.

Some people in power have really pumped the breaks on the whole vacating wins angle. ISD believes they would only vacate in an "institutional control" situation (i.e. systematic issue over a long period of time).

Sounds good, thanks!

 

[irishog77]

Question:

Which loss is greater for team success. Everett Golson suspension last year or the 4 players suspended this year? Let's assume all four players will not play this season.

I think the even bigger question is how does ND overcome the loss of Bruce Heggie?




But seriously though, fellas, take the minivan discussion to your pinterest pages, please. :awesomewo

 

[Sherm Sticky]

So far very little incriminating evidence against the players. However, the Intel notes that ND doesn't necessarily need that to drop the hammer. The investigation started with concerns about one proofreading source, but has since greatly expanded to include a deeper dive involving multiple individuals. No firm timeline on when it will wrap up, but with students back on campus it could speed up a bit.

Some people in power have really pumped the breaks on the whole vacating wins angle. ISD believes they would only vacate in an "institutional control" situation (i.e. systematic issue over a long period of time).

If the players are reinstated or suspended Notre Dame loses either way.

If the school find no hard evidence that anything happened, the media will kill ND "stating a cover up for athletes" or something of the sort.

Either way it's a PR nightmare for the school.

 

[wizards8507]

Checking in for the latest ne...

...nevermind.

 

[tussin]

If the players or reinstated or suspended Notre Dame loses either way.

If the school find no hard evidence that anything happened, the media will kill ND "stating a cover up for athletes" or something of the sort.

Either way it's a PR nightmare for the school.

Yeah, totally agree. But we would all obviously rather the team get it's players back. Let the admin deal with their own issues; they dug their own grave.

 

[Rhode Irish]

If the players or reinstated or suspended Notre Dame loses either way.

If the school find no hard evidence that anything happened, the media will kill ND "stating a cover up for athletes" or something of the sort.

Either way it's a PR nightmare for the school.

Notre Dame is just about never going to win the PR battle. It could take more or less of a beating depending on how it handles certain things, but the coverage is always going to lean negative. The focus should be on doing the right thing, not on winning the PR battle. Just my two cents.

 

[PANDFAN]

So far very little incriminating evidence against the players. However, the Intel notes that ND doesn't necessarily need that to drop the hammer. The investigation started with concerns about one proofreading source, but has since greatly expanded to include a deeper dive involving multiple individuals. No firm timeline on when it will wrap up, but with students back on campus it could speed up a bit.

Some people in power have really pumped the breaks on the whole vacating wins angle. ISD believes they would only vacate in an "institutional control" situation (i.e. systematic issue over a long period of time).

Checking in for the latest ne...

...nevermind.

see quote from tussin regarding intel's latest

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Told you all.

This isn't bearing out against the original 5. Remember the poor girl with the trashed reputation.

But all of a sudden everyone in administration has had a chance to see how students do papers in the 21st century.

I am sure in my heart this whole thing hangs on how far the administration want to step out and be creative in the response to what these student actually have done. I think you have some who are appalled at the amount of help football players received, and found it was endemic in the student body (non-athlete, and athlete alike). It depends on how creative these folks want to be in sending a message. Is it plagiarism? No. Outside of someone else writing for an individual, if the paper is the individual's own original thoughts, there really isn't overt cheating. But does the administration want to redefine the rules and tighten things down? And how far are they willing to go?

After all, it is their school, and it isn't a democracy.

 

[ab2cmiller]

If the players or reinstated or suspended Notre Dame loses either way.

If the school find no hard evidence that anything happened, the media will kill ND "stating a cover up for athletes" or something of the sort.

Either way it's a PR nightmare for the school.

Obviously it could go that way if the players are cleared. But I really don't think it would be as big of a PR nightmare as you think. Some people will probably cry cover up. But I'm sure there will be just as many people pointing out that Notre Dame suspended Golson for an entire year coming off a season where they played in the National Championship for cheating on a test. Everyone knows that there are probably only a handful of schools in Div 1 football that would've had the balls to make that call. Everyone knows that almost all of the schools in Div 1 football would've ignored the anomaly in the latest incident and went on their business.

Some would definitely cry cover up, but given the Golson incident, I think most would give us the benefit of the doubt.

 

[koonja]

So far very little incriminating evidence against the players. However, the Intel notes that ND doesn't necessarily need that to drop the hammer. The investigation started with concerns about one proofreading source, but has since greatly expanded to include a deeper dive involving multiple individuals. No firm timeline on when it will wrap up, but with students back on campus it could speed up a bit.

Some people in power have really pumped the breaks on the whole vacating wins angle. ISD believes they would only vacate in an "institutional control" situation (i.e. systematic issue over a long period of time).

This part is awesome.

Phillip Daniels has been silent on twitter FWIW. I feel like he'd be blowing up if he didn't think DD would be back soon.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Notre Dame is just about never going to win the PR battle. It could take more or less of a beating depending on how it handles certain things, but the coverage is always going to lean negative. The focus should be on doing the right thing, not on winning the PR battle. Just my two cents.

Good points...kudos

 

[NCND]

This part is awesome.

Phillip Daniels has been silent on twitter FWIW. I feel like he'd be blowing up if he didn't think DD would be back soon.

Totally agree.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think it's very possible that what Chiro from DD having a source saying that some of the guys had already been cleared as early as this past Monday, could be accurate.

But as many have discussed, this is a PR problem regardless. You can't call a press conference on Friday announcing the investigation and then announce 3 days later that some have already been cleared. Talk about a PR nightmare.

 

[tussin]

I think it's very possible that what Chiro from DD having a source saying that some of the guys had already been cleared as early as this past Monday, could be accurate.

But as many have discussed, this is a PR problem regardless. You can't call a press conference on Friday announcing the investigation and then announce 3 days later that some have already been cleared. Talk about a PR nightmare.

The Intel theorized that all the buzz about the players being cleared could have started from the players themselves and their own confidence in their case / innocence. The rumors may not have come from anyone with any actual insight into the ND judicial process.

 

[BGIF]

'13 PPG Scored 27.2
'13 PPG Allowed 22.4
'13 Differential PPG 4.8

'12 PPG Scored 25.8
'12 PPG Allowed 12.8
'12 PPG Differential 12.8

The DEFENSE had there best year in two decades in '12. Last year they gave up the most PPG since 2009.

In '12 Defense had 34 sacks. Last year 21, the lowest since '09.

The '13 Offense averaged 406 YPG all of 6 YPG less than '12 but the '13 Defense gave up 61 YPG more, a 21% worsening.

The difference between #1 and #2 QB this year is much, much closer than last year. Golson had Rees to bail him out in '12. Rees had no one to bail him out last year. In '14 we're supposed to have a 1A and a 1B QB with a #2 in the wings.

 

[wizards8507]

But as many have discussed, this is a PR problem regardless. You can't call a press conference on Friday announcing the investigation and then announce 3 days later that some have already been cleared. Talk about a PR nightmare.

What's the better solution? If DD or whoever isn't AT practice, somebody is going to notice and ask the question. Dedicated press conference or not, this was going to come out. It's bad PR, yes, but I think they handled it the best way possible.

Here's the thing. When a company screws up, best thing to do is call a press conference. Alert the media and then you control the story. Wait for them to find out, and the story controls you. That's what happened to O.J.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

All Though I agree this has been a fiasco and PR nightmare. Certainly the university isn't going to wait until Week one of the season or later to announce there decision. What a cluster fuck if they announce say next Thursday.

 

[wizards8507]

Certainly the university isn't going to wait until Week one of the season or later to announce there decision.

Holy hell how many times has this been pointed out? There are students on the honor committee. Students haven't arrived yet. There's literally NOTHING the university can do without convening said honor committee even if they wanted to. They're not dragging their feet, but they need the committee to be present in order to render a decision.

 

[Rhode Irish]

BGIF, all due respect, etc., but the first part of your post doesn't mean anything. Teams win in different ways in different years. Obviously the defense was not as good last year as it was in 2012, which is all the more reason why losing Golson hurt. In my opinion, going from Golson to Rees severely limited the offense. How those two played the previous year isn't relevant; player performance is not static year over year, especially college players. The reality is that, for all his merits, Tommy was just not as physically capable of doing the things Golson could have done, and that is why there was a big dropoff.

As far as your last paragraph, I think one of us is misinterpreting the question. I thought he asked whether losing those 4 guys this year would hurt more, less or the same as losing Golson LAST year. If that is correct, I don't understand what the 2014 QB depth chart has to do with anything.

 

[irishog77]

Holy hell how many times has this been pointed out? There are students on the honor committee. Students haven't arrived yet. There's literally NOTHING the university can do without convening said honor committee even if they wanted to. They're not dragging their feet, but they need the committee to be present in order to render a decision.

So if a kid gets in trouble, academically, on the first day of summer school, and it is deemed an honor committee issue, then everything has to wait until the end of August when the entire student body is on campus?

 

[Wild Bill]

I think it's very possible that what Chiro from DD having a source saying that some of the guys had already been cleared as early as this past Monday, could be accurate.

But as many have discussed, this is a PR problem regardless. You can't call a press conference on Friday announcing the investigation and then announce 3 days later that some have already been cleared. Talk about a PR nightmare.

They should be reinstated before Monday if they're cleared. I imagine the staff will install the game plan against Rice on Monday and they'd have to be present at those meetings/practice to play on Saturday. It would be complete bullshit to sit these guys against Rice simply to avoid a PR nightmare.

 

[Bubbles]

Completely unrelated to the thread, but I just noticed your avatar and....FUCK JEREMY CLARKSON!

That A-hole does nothing but shit on my favorite car of all-time, the Corvette!

Everytime they do a clip on the Vette they have to put it up next to a foreign car with twice the price tag just to keep up with it.


I feel better know.

Continue.

Meh, I don't know....he doesn't like American cars in general, so taken with a grain of salt, I think he actually enjoys the fun factor of the Corvette, but has a hard time accepting the (let's be honest) questionable materials quality, fit and finish.

RE: Z06, C6 if memory serves
"You see, the ZO6 is £60,000
and the Ferrari 575 here is £160,000.

And if a Martian came to Earth, he would have the devil's own job
explaining why."

 

[johnnycando]

They should be reinstated before Monday if they're cleared. I imagine the staff will install the game plan against Rice on Monday and they'd have to be present at those meetings/practice to play on Saturday. It would be complete bullshit to sit these guys against Rice simply to avoid a PR nightmare.

Read before you post.

 

[johnnycando]

So if a kid gets in trouble, academically, on the first day of summer school, and it is deemed an honor committee issue, then everything has to wait until the end of August when the entire student body is on campus?

This appears to be the process.

If you were charged with murder, you would need to go through trial in front of jury prior to walking freely, if you were innocent.