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koonja

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There's nothing "badass" about it. I'm just tired of hearing supposedly grown men whine and moan like teenage girls, because they aren't being treated like they are special. No one on the IE board is going to be a part of the hearings, so what makes anyone here think that the University owes them a timetable of what is to come? Why should the University inform anyone here when the hearings will be? Some people here have a seriously skewed view of what they are entitled to.

You calling everyone out who ever questions anyhing by the staff or school is getting annoying, IMO.

This is a message board with a lot of smart people. The 'they're smarter and know more than you so there's no reason to question them or speculate' mentality is the worst.

IMO.
 
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GoIrish41

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Or........ it could be that a bunch of fans have an overblown sense of self-worth, and think that they are entitled to an "insider's" view of everything that is going on....

or, the very people who support the team through ticket sales, television viewing, merchandise purchases feel like wanting an "insider's" view is something that might have been a valid argument like 30 or 40 days ago. The investigation was concluded very early on and these players don't even know when hearings will take place that directly impact not only this season, but potentially their futures. IMO ND is demonstrating absolutely no concern about the players or any other students involved. DD's tweet about it taking 50 days is a pretty good indication that he feels like the university's self importance outweighs anyone else's feelings on the matter.
 

GoIrish41

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There's nothing "badass" about it. I'm just tired of hearing supposedly grown men whine and moan like teenage girls, because they aren't being treated like they are special. No one on the IE board is going to be a part of the hearings, so what makes anyone here think that the University owes them a timetable of what is to come? Why should the University inform anyone here when the hearings will be? Some people here have a seriously skewed view of what they are entitled to.

Then stop coming into this thread because I, for one, am going to whine and bitch until I know what happened and if and when the players come back. It's not about being treated special -- it is about wanting answers on something that people care about. The longer it takes, the more people are going to bitch. So, if you aren't ready for that, I'd suggest another thread that doesn't make you whine and moan like a little teenage girl every time someone says something you don't like.
 

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There's nothing "badass" about it. I'm just tired of hearing supposedly grown men whine and moan like teenage girls, because they aren't being treated like they are special. No one on the IE board is going to be a part of the hearings, so what makes anyone here think that the University owes them a timetable of what is to come? Why should the University inform anyone here when the hearings will be? Some people here have a seriously skewed view of what they are entitled to.

No one is saying Jack or Kelly need to come out for a press conference delivered directly to IE. But i think it's outrageous that DD KVR and the others don't know the timeline for this process. The length of this investigation has a direct effect on their futures.
 

Irish8248

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No one is saying Jack or Kelly need to come out for a press conference delivered directly to IE. But i think it's outrageous that DD KVR and the others don't know the timeline for this process. The length of this investigation has a direct effect on their futures.

No it doesn't - this is the stuff that makes this thread so insane. If they're guilty - they're done anyways. They can't play anywhere this year regardless because the investigation started while school was in session. If they're innocent - they're name is cleared and they can come back for another year of football at the very least. They still receive.free education regardless of either situation. They don't lose anything!

The fact you guys keep arguing over layers of speculation is maddening lol. We know literally nothing more than we did 4 weeks ago.
 

clashmore_jon

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BUT I WANNA KNOW NOW!!!!111!
Screen-Shot-2013-06-06-at-12.06.38.png
 

NDdomer2

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I don't agree they haven't missed anything. 3 games and weeks of practice at a skill most of them plan to turn into a career. Time away from their teammates. Now their own decisions may or may not warrant those things being missed, but to say they have missed nothing is way off base.
 

Domina Nostra

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If they're innocent - they're name is cleared and they can come back for another year of football at the very least. They still receive.free education regardless of either situation. They don't lose anything!

It's weird, but it sure feels like they are losing something. If I had to put a label on it, I would call it the "2014 football season" and a year of practice.
 

ND NYC

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forget about the date of the hearing for a second...have they even formed the actual committee that will "rule/decide" yet?
 

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No it doesn't - this is the stuff that makes this thread so insane. If they're guilty - they're done anyways. They can't play anywhere this year regardless because the investigation started while school was in session. If they're innocent - they're name is cleared and they can come back for another year of football at the very least. They still receive.free education regardless of either situation. They don't lose anything!

The fact you guys keep arguing over layers of speculation is maddening lol. We know literally nothing more than we did 4 weeks ago.

Exactly! Sure if they are done if they are guilty, but what if they aren't?? How does an ND education help missing 3 games? That was 3 opportunities to show NFL scouts what you have. Ik people dont want to hear this here at holy Notre Dame, but guys like DD and KVR probably dont give a shit about the degree. They are trying to win games and get drafted as high as possible. This situation can do nothing but hurt their chances.

I dont understand the mentality that the players dont deserve an explanation of what is going on?? Im not saying the school should expedite the process because they are football players, but at least tell them wtf is going on?

65402-zoolander-crazy-pills-gif-6laR.gif
 
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koonja

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The only facts we know is they were held out August 15th.

The investigation completed August 28th*.

Now it's September 16th and counting with no hearings.

And Michigan still sucks.
 
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wizards8507

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Im not saying the school should expedite the process because they are football players, but at least tell them wtf is going on?
How do we know they haven't been told what's going on? I'm not saying they have or haven't, but are a few cryptic tweets from Phillip Daniels what we're basing our outrage on?
 

Irish8248

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Exactly! Sure if they are done if they are guilty, but what if they aren't?? How does an ND education help missing 3 games? That was 3 opportunities to show NFL scouts what you have. Ik people dont want to hear this here at holy Notre Dame, but guys like DD and KVR probably dont give a shit about the degree. They are trying to win games and get drafted as high as possible. This situation can do nothing but hurt their chances.

I dont understand the mentality that the players dont deserve an explanation of what is going on?? Im not saying the school should expedite the process because they are football players, but at least tell them wtf is going on?

65402-zoolander-crazy-pills-gif-6laR.gif

Theres an outrage because of cryptic tweets and no "news" .. We haven't heard anything from the other 4. We don't know what the process is. We don't know what the holdup is. We don't know what the players know and don't know! Essentially we don't know shit lol. Yet every point made in this thread is analyzed like there's some insight. No one is saying the players should be left in the dark, but we don't know why it's moving so slow internally and we never will
 

NDdomer2

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The only facts we know is they were held out August 15th.

The investigation completed September 4th.

Now it's September 16th and counting with no hearings.

And Michigan still sucks.

I think one of those dates are off, but your point remains the same:
A month later, Notre Dame Fighting Irish without probe answers - ESPN
They did this without four players who have been suspended from games and practices for a full month, since news of an internal academic investigation became public Aug. 15. (A fifth player was suspended 13 days later.) The investigation was launched by the Office of the General Counsel on July 29, when the compliance office was given evidence. Coach Brian Kelly said Aug. 28 that the investigation was complete. He said Sunday that, as of this past Friday, the five players had not yet had honesty committee hearings to voice their responses to whatever the findings were.
 

Irish Jacky

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SIAP but it's being said on a couple of other ND message boards that the delay is being caused by one of the players refusing to allow access to his email by the committee for evidentiary purposes. This has apparently caused some kind of "who blinks first " standoff.

I have no idea if this is true, and don't mean to imply anything one way or the other. It seems plausible, however.

I have no idea what ND email privacy terms are, but I find it hard to assume a student has a reasonable expectation of privacy in emails that implicate him/her in violations of the honor code. I'm fairly certain there is no "right against self-incrimination" a la the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. This is serious but it's not a criminal prosecution.
 
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koonja

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SIAP but it's being said on a couple of other ND message boards that the delay is being caused by one of the players refusing to allow access to his email by the committee for evidentiary purposes. This has apparently caused some kind of "who blinks first " standoff.

I have no idea if this is true, and don't mean to imply anything one way or the other. It seems plausible, however.

I have no idea what ND email privacy terms are, but I find it hard to assume a student has a reasonable expectation of privacy in emails that implicate him/her in violations of the honor code. I'm fairly certain there is no "right against self-incrimination" a la the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. This is serious but it's not a criminal prosecution.

Thanks for sharing.

Wouldn't that have been handled during the investigation? Either they got his stuff or they didn't, they're not looking for new stuff now.

And couldn't he simply delete the emails? And/or they look them up anyways on the server?

Pretty sure that guy would be beaten up by now if that's the case if he's hanging the whole team out to dry because he doesn't want to go down, and IDK if it's KVR or Moore.
 

twig21

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SIAP but it's being said on a couple of other ND message boards that the delay is being caused by one of the players refusing to allow access to his email by the committee for evidentiary purposes. This has apparently caused some kind of "who blinks first " standoff.

I have no idea if this is true, and don't mean to imply anything one way or the other. It seems plausible, however.

I have no idea what ND email privacy terms are, but I find it hard to assume a student has a reasonable expectation of privacy in emails that implicate him/her in violations of the honor code. I'm fairly certain there is no "right against self-incrimination" a la the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. This is serious but it's not a criminal prosecution.

This could explain what I have heard. I spoke with a close friend today who is very connected to the Athletic Dept. He was told weeks ago by people inside the Dept. that they expected DD and KR to be reinstated shortly. Now he said they have no idea why the delays and no idea why its so quiet.
 

Woneone

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Thanks for sharing.

Wouldn't that have been handled during the investigation? Either they got his stuff or they didn't, they're not looking for new stuff now.

And couldn't he simply delete the emails? And/or they look them up anyways on the server?

Pretty sure that guy would be beaten up by now if that's the case if he's hanging the whole team out to dry because he doesn't want to go down, and IDK if it's KVR or Moore.

I guess this theory doesn't make much sense to me. Emails are a two way communication. The accusation that something incriminating might be in his email would have to stem from someone else receiving an incriminating email from them. Since this isn't a court of law, I'd assume that copy of the email would be enough.

The only other scenario, to me, would be a rumor of cheating with nothing else to back it.

"Hey, Lisa told us you emailed Sue your paper and she rewrote the whole thing for you. Both of you, hand over your personal email accounts so we can check."
 

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I guess this theory doesn't make much sense to me. Emails are a two way communication. The accusation that something incriminating might be in his email would have to stem from someone else receiving an incriminating email from them. Since this isn't a court of law, I'd assume that copy of the email would be enough.

The only other scenario, to me, would be a rumor of cheating with nothing else to back it.

"Hey, Lisa told us you emailed Sue your paper and she rewrote the whole thing for you. Both of you, hand over your personal email accounts so we can check."

It could be emails between KVR and his gf.
 

BGIF

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I googled Notre Dame email and found these. Essentially if you use the University's computer system, they have access to it for the reasons highlighted in red (by me).

I didn't notice anything about privacy for email on a private computer run over a third party network for someone living off campus or for someone using say gmail on their cell.



About Email // OIT Help // University of Notre Dame

Responsible Use of Electronic Mail
The world of electronic communications demands appropriate behavior to ensure effective and friendly interaction. Information technology resources should be used in accordance with the ethical standards of the University community. Any use of the University's information technology resources for harassment, threat, or defamation is a serious and punishable offense.

Anyone using Notre Dame computers and networking resources is responsible for observing the policies set forth in the Responsible Use of Information Technology Resources policy. You may download the Official University Responsible Use Policy as a PDF file. The Responsible Use Policy also is available in printed form in DuLac, the Faculty Handbook, and the Staff Employee Guidebook, or at any campus computer lab.


http://policy.nd.edu/policy_files/ResponsibleUseITResourcesPolicy.pdf

Responsible Use of Information Technology Resources
POLICY 7.4
Responsible Executive: Chief Information Officer
Responsible Office: Office of Information Technology
Last Issued: May 14, 2008
Issued: September 27, 2010
Revised: November 9, 2011


2. POLICY STATEMENTS
When using Notre Dame’s information technology resources, users must:
...

2.7 Understand that uses of information technology resources are not completely private.
The normal operation and maintenance of the University’s technology resources require
backup and caching of data and communications, logging of activity, monitoring of general
use patterns, and other such activities that are necessary to provide service.
The University reserves the right to inspect any activities or accounts of individual users of
University information technology resources, including individual login sessions and
communications, without notice, unless otherwise prohibited by law
. The University may
inspect such information technology resources under circumstances when the University
determines inspection is necessary, including but not limited to the following:
a. To protect the integrity, security, or functionality of University or other information
technology resources, or to protect the University from harm
;
b. There is reasonable cause to believe that the user has violated, or is violating, any Notre
Dame policy
or applicable civil or criminal law; or
c. An information technology resource appears to be engaged in unusual or unusually
excessive activity, as indicated by monitoring of general activity and usage patterns.
Under normal circumstances, the General Counsel and the individual’s dean/director or vice
president, in consultation with the Chief Information Officer, must approve in advance any
individual inspection, other than that which is voluntary, required by law, or necessary to
respond to emergency situations.
The University, in its discretion, may use or disclose the results of any such inspection,
including the contents and records of individual communications, as it considers appropriate to University personnel, third parties, or law enforcement agencies.
 

Irish#1

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SIAP but it's being said on a couple of other ND message boards that the delay is being caused by one of the players refusing to allow access to his email by the committee for evidentiary purposes. This has apparently caused some kind of "who blinks first " standoff.

I have no idea if this is true, and don't mean to imply anything one way or the other. It seems plausible, however.

I have no idea what ND email privacy terms are, but I find it hard to assume a student has a reasonable expectation of privacy in emails that implicate him/her in violations of the honor code. I'm fairly certain there is no "right against self-incrimination" a la the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. This is serious but it's not a criminal prosecution.

Thanks for sharing.

Wouldn't that have been handled during the investigation? Either they got his stuff or they didn't, they're not looking for new stuff now.

And couldn't he simply delete the emails? And/or they look them up anyways on the server?

Pretty sure that guy would be beaten up by now if that's the case if he's hanging the whole team out to dry because he doesn't want to go down, and IDK if it's KVR or Moore.

This could explain what I have heard. I spoke with a close friend today who is very connected to the Athletic Dept. He was told weeks ago by people inside the Dept. that they expected DD and KR to be reinstated shortly. Now he said they have no idea why the delays and no idea why its so quiet.

I guess this theory doesn't make much sense to me. Emails are a two way communication. The accusation that something incriminating might be in his email would have to stem from someone else receiving an incriminating email from them. Since this isn't a court of law, I'd assume that copy of the email would be enough.

The only other scenario, to me, would be a rumor of cheating with nothing else to back it.

"Hey, Lisa told us you emailed Sue your paper and she rewrote the whole thing for you. Both of you, hand over your personal email accounts so we can check."

It depends. If they are using school email accounts then I would assume that there is an understanding emails are not private and are the intellectual property of the school. However, if they used their own email accounts the school has no legal right to access those emails.

If this rumor is true, then I have to believe at least one probably did cheat in one way or another, thus the refusal to allow access.
 

BGIF

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I bet this is doing wonders for recruiting.

Rex Pflueger committed to ND on 9/11 in the midst of this incident. Matt Ryan and Elijah Burns both committed in July and none have de-committed. Basketball LOI is Nov 12-19, two and a half months before Football LOI date.
 

wizards8507

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If this rumor is true, then I have to believe at least one probably did cheat in one way or another, thus the refusal to allow access.
It took 7,000 posts to reach that conclusion and you still hedge it with a caveat? How about "if Notre Dame launches a probe to investigate academic dishonesty, someone probably did something academically dishonest"?

No shit at least one of them probably did cheat in one way or another.
 

Woneone

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Bunch of stuff

Yea, but I'm not sure how personal email applies in this case. If it was his student account, I'm sure they'd have no problem getting whatever they wanted. But I think they'd have a hard time getting his personal email, even if it was accessed on the ND network. I know, from an employee stand point (yea, I know, they aren't employees), even when searching a corporate account, an employer has to be careful about opening personal emails, even when sent from the persons corporate email.

See my point?

Edit: I made a boo boo.
 
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