Rioting in St Louis

[wizards8507]

Because racism is subtle and disguised now does not mean it's gone.

Then I feel bad for you because you'll never be at peace. When you see a boogeyman lurking in every shadow, your paranoia will control you.

 

[Irish#1]

Except protesting while breaking laws is the way to affect people. People are disrupting the natural order because their natural order is being disrupted. Sorry it's uncomfortable for you.

Once again a classic we can reference as time goes by.

 

[goldandblue]

njnp. did you take a moment to watch the video I posted earlier. Did anyone?

 

[tussin]

It's not as bad but it's still bad. People are apathetic about the plight of others and the protests make them confront this apathy or hatred.

I disagree with everything.

1. At the core, this isn't a race issue.

It's random confrontations between two individuals:
A) an often ill-prepared (and IMO sometimes under-educated) guy with a badge and a gun.
B) a black guy who usually just committed a petty crime

You can certainly argue that these cases shouldn't end with the black guy dead, and you even argue that the cop reacted inappropriately in the moment or, in some cases, illegally. But you can't just automatically point to racism. If anything, it's caused by underlying socioeconomic issues and it's a reflection of the state of inner city schools and the continued degradation of the American family.

2. No, destructive protests make the outsiders even more apathetic.

 

[tussin]

Because racism is subtle and disguised now does not mean it's gone. This whole situation has made it clear. You may not care about the well being of others but this shows how many people do.

Bro, burning down buildings in Ferguson is not going to put an end to racism in the US. If it turns out to be that simple, I'll light the first match. I hate racism just like everyone else.

 

[ulukinatme]

I feel like protesting this thread and sitting in the street till a car runs me over. Hopefully my voice will be heard.

 

[ulukinatme]

Because racism is subtle and disguised now does not mean it's gone. This whole situation has made it clear. You may not care about the well being of others but this shows how many people do.

Protesting in the streets and clogging up highways shows how much protesters don't care about other people.

 

[connor_in]

It's not as bad but it's still bad. People are apathetic about the plight of others and the protests make them confront this apathy or hatred.

People of all races are apathetic about people of all races I today's society. People who are white don't go looking specifically for other white people to help. Most people who help out others are just looking to help others, period. However, many are just trying to get by in their own little world and rarely or only nominally help others at all.

 

[Wild Bill]

It's not as bad but it's still bad. People are apathetic about the plight of others and the protests make them confront this apathy or hatred.

I assume you mean white people, right?

 

[Bubbles]

I assume you mean white people, right?

Only white people are racist.......duh.

 

[BobD]

Well at least a lot of police officers and their families will have a great Christmas holiday financially with all the overtime. Unfortunately they just won't be able to be with their families.

Thank you to all of our great public servants during this trying time.

 

[BobD]

This is flying around FB right now. Not sure if it's legit.

 

[Bluto]

Get over it, man. The Struggle is over. Yes, some folks are still small-s struggling, but The capital-S Struggle is over.

This is the type of dismissive bullshit that drives people of color crazy and is absolutely pathetic. Since we're taking this position how about the Jews? Hey it's been waay over 40 years right. How about all those 911 families? Those whiny military vets and their pissing and moaning about PTSD? Those Vietnam vets and their Pow Mia flags....

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Sociopaths. No care for the people.

EXCLUSIVE: Cop texted union rep as Akai Gurley lay dying - NY Daily News

While Akai Gurley was dying in a darkened stairwell at a Brooklyn housing development, the cop who fired the fatal bullet was texting his union representative, sources told the Daily News.

Right after rookie cop Peter Liang discharged a single bullet that struck Gurley, 28, he and his partner Shaun Landau were incommunicado for more than six and a half minutes, sources said Thursday.

In the critical moments after the Nov. 20 shooting, the cops’ commanding officer and an emergency operator — responding to a 911 call from a neighbor and knowing the duo was in the area — tried to reach them in vain, sources said.

“That’s showing negligence,” said a law enforcement source of the pair’s decision to text their union rep before making a radio call for help.

“The guy is dying and you still haven’t called it in?”

To make things even worse, the officers were uncertain of the exact address of the building in the Pink Houses they were in, according to their text messages, the sources said.

The explosive details of the immediate aftermath following the shooting of Gurley are at the center of an investigation by Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson — who is poised to present evidence to a grand jury as early as the end of this month.

The police shooting case is certain to command extra scrutiny after a Staten Island grand jury Wednesday declined to indict NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo for the chokehold death of Eric Garner.

Adding to the tragedy surrounding Gurley’s death, the officers involved were not supposed to be doing a patrol in the stairways, the sources said.

Deputy Inspector Miguel Iglesias, then the head officer of the local housing command, ordered them not to carry out such patrols, known as verticals.

He opted instead for exterior policing in response to a spate of violence at the East New York housing project.

“They’ve done verticals before,” a police source said of the two officers.

“But Iglesias’ philosophy was, ‘I want a presence on the street, in the courtyards — and if they go into the buildings they were just supposed to check out the lobby.”

Another source said the commander was furious after the shooting, raging, “I told them not to do verticals.”

Police Commissioner Bill Bratton characterized the incident as an “unfortunate tragedy” and an accident. Officials said Liang was holding a flashlight in his right hand and a Glock 9-mm. in the other when he opened the door to the eighth-floor landing.

One bullet flew out and apparently ricocheted into the chest of Gurley, who was on the seventh-floor landing and taking the stairs with his girlfriend Melissa Butler, 27.

The victim stumbled down to the fifth floor and Butler knocked on a woman’s door on the fourth floor, pleading for help. That woman called 911, a source said.

When Liang and Landau finally resurfaced on the radio, they reported an accidental discharge, added the source. Authorities have said they didn’t immediately know anyone was struck with the bullet.

The stairwell was pitch-black because the lights were out. The superintendent had asked NYCHA to fix the lights months before the fatal encounter. The problem was finally resolved hours after Gurley died.

While the shooting may have been a mishap, the cops’ subsequent conduct can amount to criminal liability, court insiders said.

“I would be surprised if it is not at least presented to a grand jury,” said Kenneth Montgomery, a lawyer for Gurley’s parents. “It’s a debacle and it speaks of criminal negligence.”

DA Thompson had called the shooting “deeply troubling” and promised “an immediate, fair and thorough investigation.”

A spokeswoman for his office had no comment Thursday. The NYPD also declined comment.

Gurley’s mother, Sylvia Parker, and stepfather, Kenneth Palmer, are scheduled to make their first public statements Friday morning, ahead of their son’s wake.

Gurley will be laid to rest Saturday.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

A guy much smarter than me once said: "I deliver a hard day's work for my money. I just want the chance. It'll come. I believe in America. I follow the rules. Everybody's got their own hard times these days."

 

[MPClinton22]

How much do you guys hate the Boston Tea Party?

This is by far my favorite argument that supporters of these "protests" make.

I just want to give you a bit of a history lesson. The colonists were responding to the Tea Act of 1773. This was designed to essentially force them to buy the Tea supplied by the East India Company (a British company), as they had an enormous surplus and were struggling financially. So, instead of giving into this injustice by the British government, they dumped the Tea into the Boston harbor. This all makes sense to me and I see a pretty clear connection between the injustice and their actions.

Now, please tell me what the connection is between these "injustices" and burning down innocent people's businesses or putting thousands of drivers in danger. And don't just say "IT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GET ANY ATTENTION RIGHT NOW!" With our 24 hour news networks nowadays they would be getting plenty of attention for protesting at police stations, city halls, etc. It's ridiculous.

 

[GATTACA!]

This is by far my favorite argument that supporters of these "protests" make.

I just want to give you a bit of a history lesson. The colonists were responding to the Tea Act of 1773. This was designed to essentially force them to buy the Tea supplied by the East India Company (a British company), as they had an enormous surplus and were struggling financially. So, instead of giving into this injustice by the British government, they dumped the Tea into the Boston harbor. This all makes sense to me and I see a pretty clear connection between the injustice and their actions.

Now, please tell me what the connection is between these "injustices" and burning down innocent people's businesses or putting thousands of drivers in danger. And don't just say "IT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GET ANY ATTENTION RIGHT NOW!" With our 24 hour news networks nowadays they would be getting plenty of attention for protesting at police stations, city halls, etc. It's ridiculous.

Aaaaaaand your comment is going in the ignore pile.

 

[ickythump1225]

This is the type of dismissive bullshit that drives people of color crazy and is absolutely pathetic. Since we're taking this position how about the Jews? Hey it's been waay over 40 years right. How about all those 911 families? Those whiny military vets and their pissing and moaning about PTSD? Those Vietnam vets and their Pow Mia flags....

You can either choose to be a victim your whole life or you can suck it up and truck on. Everyone has their own battles and struggles they have to overcome.

 

[kmoose]

Because racism is subtle and disguised now does not mean it's gone. This whole situation has made it clear. You may not care about the well being of others but this shows how many people do.

By the same token; just because you believe that a person's motivations are racial, doesn't mean that they are.

 

[Cackalacky]

This is the type of dismissive bullshit that drives people of color crazy and is absolutely pathetic. Since we're taking this position how about the Jews? Hey it's been waay over 40 years right. How about all those 911 families? Those whiny military vets and their pissing and moaning about PTSD? Those Vietnam vets and their Pow Mia flags....

Exactly. It's infuriating and it is a dehumanizing mind set. People were calling a lack of indictment on Wilson as "Justice served." Bullshit. Police do not have the right to dispense field justice and we will never know what the facts of the case were because Wilson killed the suspect and no trial will be had. Not justice at all. It's the exact opposite. That young man probably should have been on trial for stealing cigarillos but instead he is dead.

 

[Cackalacky]

You can either choose to be a victim your whole life or you can suck it up and truck on. Everyone has their own battles and struggles they have to overcome.

Fighting to not repeat history and playing the victim are often confused by certain people but they are obviously different and I think that struggles to ensure that our most base tendencies ar corrected are worthy of effort.

 

[MPClinton22]

Aaaaaaand your comment is going in the ignore pile.

Please explain to me what is so outrageous about what I said. Regardless of my opinion on what they are protesting for, I think they are going about this the complete wrong way. And I think it's naive to believe that the only way to get any attention to your cause is to burn down businesses and endanger unrelated third parties, like random people on an interstate. Sorry if that offended you?

 

[Nick Setta]

Get over it, man. The Struggle is over. Yes, some folks are still small-s struggling, but The capital-S Struggle is over.

Lol, you can't be serious.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Lol, you can't be serious.

Hey, didn't you see, there's a black president now....

 

[Bluto]

You can either choose to be a victim your whole life or you can suck it up and truck on. Everyone has their own battles and struggles they have to overcome.

There in lies a huge part of the problem. American Society and the way the criminal justice and economic systems exist and function has not allowed a huge number of blacks to "move on". They are consistently reminded particularly by the law enforcement aparatus in this country that they are second class citizens. To me these largely peaceful protests are blacks choosing not to "be victims" yet here we sit poo pooing even that.

When certain ethnic European groups in this country (whom I assume we're the grandparents or great grandparents of many on this board) decided to "stop being victims" riots, armed clashes with the police, bombings, assassinations and violence were common. Come to think of it when Jews decided to "stop being victims" they followed that same approach in Palestein. So instead of sitting here wagging our fingers at Blacks yet again how about at the very least commending Blacks for being much more civilized than our forefathers in their struggles against oppression?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There in lies a huge part of the problem. Whites have never allowed a huge number of blacks to "move on". They are consistently reminded particularly by the law enforcement aparatus in this country that they are second class citizens. To me these largely peaceful protests are blacks choosing not to "be victims" yet here we sit poo pooing even that.

When certain ethnic European groups in this country (whom I assume we're the grandparents or great grandparents of many on this board) decided to "stop being victims" riots, armed clashes with the police, bombings, assassinations and violence were common. Come to think of it when Jews decided to "stop being victims" they followed that same approach in Palestein. So instead of sitting here wagging our fingers at them how about at the very least commending Blacks for being much more civilized than our forefathers in their struggles against oppression?

"What would MLK do!?"

*does exactly what MLK would do*

"Jeez do you have to whine so much! So inconvenient for me! I'll just kill some protesters because they are inconveniencing me! Racism is over get over it you lazy ni....African-Americans!"

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Justice is served because a prosecutor rigged the grand jury process so it didn't go to trial.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Cleveland cop who shot 12-year-old slammed for ‘immaturity’ in past job | WQAD.com

(CNN) — Nearly two years before he shot and killed a 12-year-old who had an air gun, Cleveland Police Officer Timothy Loehmann resigned from another police job after a supervisor described him as “distracted and weepy” and “emotionally immature.”

Records from the Independence Police Department obtained by CNN include comments from a supervisor detailing what they called “a pattern of lack of maturity, indiscretion and not following instructions,” a “dangerous loss of composure during live range training” and an “inability to manage personal stress.”

“I do not believe time, nor training, will be able to change or correct these deficiencies,” Independence Deputy Chief Jim Polak wrote in a November 2012 memo.

Now Loehmann, who could not be immediately reached for comment, is one of two Cleveland police officers under investigation after the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice last month. Police have said the boy was shot after pulling out an air gun that looked like a real firearm.

Loehmann joined the Cleveland Police Department in March. A Cleveland Police spokesman said Thursday that during a background check before hiring Loehmann, his department didn’t review the officer’s personnel file from Independence, a suburb south of the city. Detectives did speak with the Independence human resources director, the spokesman said.

“During that interview detectives inquired if there were any disciplinary actions or incidents that Cleveland Police should be aware of prior to hiring Loehmann, at which point they were told there were none,” Sgt. Ali Pillow said. “The reason for departure indicated was resignation. Officer Loehmann indicated that he resigned for personal reasons, which was substantiated by the City of Independence.”

According to the records, Loehmann worked at the Independence Police Department as an officer until December 2012, when he submitted his resignation “for personal reasons” after he was told that a disciplinary process of separation had begun.

“Ptl. Loehmann’s inability to perform basic functions as instructed, and his inability to emotionally function because of a personal situation at home with an on and off again girlfriend leads one to believe that he would not be able to substantially cope, or make good decisions, during or resulting from any other stressful situation,” Polok wrote.

Another memo from a sergeant who worked with Loehmann at a shooting range described the officer as “distracted,” “not fit to return” after an emotional outburst and someone who was “not following simple instructions.”

An Independence spokeswoman said in a statement that the city had made all personnel files for Loehmann available.

Loehmann has been on paid injured leave since November 22 after injuring his ankle in the shooting, Pillow said. His partner is also on paid administrative leave

The shooting has sparked criticism from community members who accuse police of unnecessary violence.

Police said it’s not clear if the responding officers involved in the shooting received information about the age of the suspect or the gun being “probably fake.”

Fred Loehmann, Timothy Loehmann’s father, told the Cleveland Plain Dealer this week that his son didn’t know the boy’s gun was fake or realize he was 12 years old.

“I was right there and he went for the gun,” he recalled his son saying, according to the newspaper. “I had no choice.”

Efforts by CNN to reach Loehmann Thursday were not immediately successful.

 

[kmoose]

There in lies a huge part of the problem. Whites have never allowed a huge number of blacks to "move on".

Stop right there, please. I am done listening. Once I hear that whites (all inclusive) are keeping you down, I am done listening. I think this is the biggest problem in race relations, today; lack of clear communication. I know that you probably did not mean ALL white people, but that is the way it comes off. Just like when some say "thugs", it comes off as all black people, or all protesters. And that's when the other side closes their ears and stops listening.

I think that a lot of race activists come off as if the entirety of white society is actively trying to hold them down. They come off as if it is criminal for blacks to make any advances. Have some of these people ever heard of the National Association for Advancement of Colored People, or the United Negro College Fund? Do they honestly think that anyone at the Southern Poverty Law Center gives a single fvck about JimBob the poor white trash redneck?

And a lot of "personal responsibility" people (myself included) can seem to be of the mind that all black people are lazy welfare whores, looking for a handout and using slavery as an excuse to extort money from society as a whole.

I think we all need to do a better job. Black, White, Police, Politician, Civilian....... we all need to become better communicators with the people around us. THAT will do more for race relations, in my opinion, than any laws or protests.

 

[Bluto]

Stop right there, please. I am done listening. Once I hear that whites (all inclusive) are keeping you down, I am done listening. I think this is the biggest problem in race relations, today; lack of clear communication. I know that you probably did not mean ALL white people, but that is the way it comes off. Just like when some say "thugs", it comes off as all black people, or all protesters. And that's when the other side closes their ears and stops listening.

I think that a lot of race activists come off as if the entirety of white society is actively trying to hold them down. They come off as if it is criminal for blacks to make any advances. Have some of these people ever heard of the National Association for Advancement of Colored People, or the United Negro College Fund? Do they honestly think that anyone at the Southern Poverty Law Center gives a single fvck about JimBob the poor white trash redneck?

And a lot of "personal responsibility" people (myself included) can seem to be of the mind that all black people are lazy welfare whores, looking for a handout and using slavery as an excuse to extort money from society as a whole.

I think we all need to do a better job. Black, White, Police, Politician, Civilian....... we all need to become better communicators with the people around us. THAT will do more for race relations, in my opinion, than any laws or protests.

Kmoose. Thank you for the feedback. You are right. I thought about it and edited my pervious post so as to clarify and hopefully allow my point to be heard.