Rioting in St Louis

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Kmoose. Thank you for the feedback. You are right. As opposed to using "whites" I should have used America's criminal justice and economic systems.

"The powers that be" is the right term. The racists who run the criminal justice system and have established these policies meant to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.

 

[Bluto]

"The powers that be" is the right term. The racists who run the criminal justice system and have established these policies meant to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.

I agree completely.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Rabbis Recite Kaddish, Jewish Mourning Prayer, For Eric Garner, Later Arrested In NYC Protest

Four prominent New York rabbis were arrested during protests against police brutality and racial injustice on Thursday night, along with more than 200 others taken into custody throughout the city.

Rabbis Sharon Kleinbaum, Jill Jacobs, David Rosenn and Shai Held, along with Randi Weingarten, the president of the American Federation of Teachers, joined thousands of other protesters who took to the streets Wednesday and Thursday evenings in opposition to a grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Daniel Pantaleo for the death of Eric Garner.

Rabbi Jacobs told HuffPost by email that she and others arrived at the police station at roughly 11:30 p.m. and were held until 5:15 a.m. Friday morning. Despite the sleepless night, Jacobs said the protest was crucial to her as "a religious act" to highlight the "dignity of every single human being."

"Rabbis and all Jews need to stand up and say that every single person is a creation in the divine image -- that black lives matter," Jacobs said. "We put our bodies on the line to show how crucial it is that the systems meant to protect us do protect all of us."

The protest began at B’nai Jeshurun, a Jewish synagogue on 88th St., and proceeded along Broadway to 96th St. where the rabbis engaged in an act of civil disobedience. Many of the protesters had just attended a ceremony organized by Jews for Racial and Economic Justice (JFREJ) at B'nai Jeshurun, during which Rabbi Kleinbaum was one of three recipients of the Rabbi Marshall T. Meyer Risk Taker Awards.

B'nai Jeshurun's Rabbi J. Rolando Matalon said the ceremony was planned months in advance, and when the grand jury decision was announced it was clear to him and others that a demonstration of their concern was in order.

"It was all very peaceful and respectful but carried a great deal of concern and the commitment that we have to make serious change in our justice system and in our society to eradicate racism," Matalon told HuffPost over the phone. "These incidents which are now a recurring pattern of the deaths of black men at the hands of police are issues of tremendous concern."

The protesters recited the kaddish, a Jewish mourning prayer delivered in memory of loved ones -- video of which several participants posted to Facebook and can be viewed below. During the prayer attendees read the names of more than 20 black individuals who had been killed by New York police, followed by the statement, “I am responsible.”

Matalon said the purpose of the kaddish was to deliver a "symbolic action" of community solidarity and to offer some hope for the future.

"This prayer is a prayer of hope," Matalon explained. "It's a prayer about the vision of the world redeemed. It was a desire to express in Jewish terms our outrage, our concern and also our vision for a brighter future."

 

[Nick Setta]

You can't really generalize and its on the person. I know people who work hard and also know someone that tried to sell food stamps to me yesterday. It depends on the individual. But poorer people have it definitely harder for them to succeed than rich people.

 

[kmoose]

"The powers that be" is the right term. The racists who run the criminal justice system and have established these policies meant to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.

Is it really racist, to keep the poor poor? The poor are represented by all manner of races, creeds, and colors, are they not?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Is it really racist, to keep the poor poor? The poor are represented by all manner of races, creeds, and colors, are they not?

It's both classist and racist. People are afraid of the poor and most people consider black people to be living in "the ghetto" to be the poor ones in America. The black welfare queen is one example of using racism to help keep the poor poor. Racism is a tool for the people who are classist. I think the people who make the laws and methods to keep people down don't care about the poor and they use the racism of the common person to achieve this.

 

[Bluto]

Is it really racist, to keep the poor poor? The poor are represented by all manner of races, creeds, and colors, are they not?

They are. The question of race arises for me when you look at how disproportionately represented say blacks and native Americans are in terms of those living in poverty and or their incarceration rates. If clearly identifiable and consistent racially biased outcomes are the end product of how our society functions then how do we describe this process? Do we do anything to then address it?

The statistics on Black incarceration are mind blowing.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

They are. The question of race arises for me when you look at how disproportionately represented say blacks and native Americans are in terms of those living in poverty and or their incarceration rates. If clearly identifiable and consistent racially biased outcomes are the end product of how our society functions then what do we do and how do we describe this process?

Some interesting stuff that I've read is about how pictures of black people shows inherent biases. People are more likely to be against welfare and for voter ID laws when they see pictures of videos of black people voting or using food stamps.

 

[Cackalacky]

There in lies a huge part of the problem. American Society and the way the criminal justice and economic systems exist and function has not allowed a huge number of blacks to "move on". They are consistently reminded particularly by the law enforcement aparatus in this country that they are second class citizens. To me these largely peaceful protests are blacks choosing not to "be victims" yet here we sit poo pooing even that.

When certain ethnic European groups in this country (whom I assume we're the grandparents or great grandparents of many on this board) decided to "stop being victims" riots, armed clashes with the police, bombings, assassinations and violence were common. Come to think of it when Jews decided to "stop being victims" they followed that same approach in Palestein. So instead of sitting here wagging our fingers at Blacks yet again how about at the very least commending Blacks for being much more civilized than our forefathers in their struggles against oppression?

Nailed it. "These people should just accept the role they play in our Society!"

 

[kmoose]

The black welfare queen is one example of using racism to help keep the poor poor.

Are you trying to say that people are forcing black women to become welfare queens?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Are you trying to say that people are forcing black women to become welfare queens?

No I'm saying that when people created this "black welfare queen" stereotype or character, they created a push for people to be anti-welfare because the racism of others made people faraid that black women were gaming the system.

 

[kmoose]

No I'm saying that when people created this "black welfare queen" stereotype or character, they created a push for people to be anti-welfare because the racism of others made people faraid that black women were gaming the system.

Is there any chance that black women were actually gaming the system, and that it was that, not some latent racism, that created the perception?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Is there any chance that black women were actually gaming the system, and that it was that, not some latent racism, that created the perception?

One woman was gaming the system and Reagan and other Republicans used it like it was a huge problem. Like in-person voter fraud, the welfare system being gamed was extremely rare but the powers that be used public ignorance and hysteria to push a system that would harm the poor.

 

[kmoose]

They are. The question of race arises for me when you look at how disproportionately represented say blacks and native Americans are in terms of those living in poverty and or their incarceration rates. If clearly identifiable and consistent racially biased outcomes are the end product of how our society functions then how do we describe this process? Do we do anything to then address it?

The statistics on Black incarceration are mind blowing.

The single biggest risk factor for incarceration is not color, but having a father in the household. Would it be racist to extrapolate that, due to the relationship between the two facts, it could be reasoned that there is a serious issue with black men not being responsible fathers?

 

[kmoose]

Like in-person voter fraud, the welfare system being gamed was extremely rare

Can you give me some numbers on that?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Can you give me some numbers on that?

USDA Releases New Report on Trafficking and Announces Additional Measures to Improve Integrity in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program | Food and Nutrition Service

"SNAP continues to have one of the lowest fraud rates for Federal programs."

 

[Bluto]

The single biggest risk factor for incarceration is not color, but having a father in the household. Would it be racist to extrapolate that, due to the relationship between the two facts, it could be reasoned that there is a serious issue with black men not being responsible fathers?

No, it would not be racist. That is a conversation that is going on within the Black community. However, as a part of that conversation one would have to take an in depth look at and be willing to accept that the base institutions that form the larger society (economic model, law enforcement, government) acted and in many ways continue to act with a whole lot of vigor and support to destroy cultural institutions such as the family within black communities.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

At the Lorraine Hotel. Extremely powerful.

 

[kmoose]

USDA Releases New Report on Trafficking and Announces Additional Measures to Improve Integrity in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program | Food and Nutrition Service

"SNAP continues to have one of the lowest fraud rates for Federal programs."

A couple of things here:

1. How do statistics from 1993-2013 support the notion that Ronald Reagan and others used ONE instance of a black woman abusing welfare to create a racist perception that black women abuse welfare?

2. This article deals strictly with the selling of food stamps. Abuse of the welfare system is MUCH broader than simply selling food stamps for cash. Intentionally becoming pregnant to receive more benefits is another. As is the notion that you will just collect welfare, instead of working. So again, it doesn't really support your contention that the notion of a "black welfare queen" is something that was made up and not rooted in reality.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

SLC protest for Darrien Hunt.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Sad to see how racism is learned.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

No, it would not be racist. That is a conversation that is going on within the Black community. However, as a part of that conversation one would have to take an in depth look at and be willing to accept that the base institutions that form the larger society (economic model, law enforcement, government) acted and in many ways continue to act with a whole lot of vigor and support to destroy cultural institutions such as the family within black communities.

Also how many are without a parent because of the drug laws in America? The incarceration rate does have an impact on how people are raised. I also saw an interesting protest sign in NY this week that said something like "You mock us for not having fathers yet kill the ones we have" or something like that. Pretty powerful with the killings of Garner and Gurley.

 

[kmoose]

However, as a part of that conversation one would have to take an in depth look at and be willing to accept that the base institutions that form the larger society (economic model, law enforcement, government) acted and in many ways continue to act with a whole lot of vigor and support to destroy cultural institutions such as the family within black communities.

Can you explain to me what that means? Who or what is vigorously trying to destroy the black family?

 

[Bluto]

A couple of things here:

1. How do statistics from 1993-2013 support the notion that Ronald Reagan and others used ONE instance of a black woman abusing welfare to create a racist perception that black women abuse welfare?

2. This article deals strictly with the selling of food stamps. Abuse of the welfare system is MUCH broader than simply selling food stamps for cash. Intentionally becoming pregnant to receive more benefits is another. As is the notion that you will just collect welfare, instead of working. So again, it doesn't really support your contention that the notion of a "black welfare queen" is something that was made up and not rooted in reality.

If you're genuinely interested in the "welfare queen" narrative and how it came about I would recommend watching the documentary Boogie Man. It's about Lee Atwater. He ran Reagan and Bush seniors campaigns for president. Pretty fascinating stuff.

It's not so much whether or not there were "welfare queens" it was the fact that it was blown waaaay out of proportion in terms of how a very small proportion of welfare recipients was negatively impacting the country as a whole. As Atwater makes clear it was also not a coincidence that these shady characters were consistently Black.

 

[wizards8507]

Also how many are without a parent because of the drug laws in America?

If you're without a parent because they're in prison from drug laws, even changing the drug laws would leave you with a parent who's a drug dealer or abuser. Is that really better?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

If you're without a parent because they're in prison from drug laws, even changing the drug laws would leave you with a parent who's a drug dealer or abuser. Is that really better?

Not if it helps them get treatment, which has happened in Portugal. Not if they are dealing small amounts of weed which is extremely harmless. Not if they are living a good home life. The drug laws are completely insane and have created a boogeyman of these violent weed dealers like the guy selling nickel bags out of his parked car is a member of the cartel.

 

[wizards8507]

Not if it helps them get treatment, which has happened in Portugal. Not if they are dealing small amounts of weed which is extremely harmless. Not if they are living a good home life. The drug laws are completely insane and have created a boogeyman of these violent weed dealers like the guy selling nickel bags out of his parked car is a member of the cartel.

Hey I hate the drug laws too, but they're shitty regardless of race.

 

[Nick Setta]

If you're without a parent because they're in prison from drug laws, even changing the drug laws would leave you with a parent who's a drug dealer or abuser. Is that really better?

Drug dealers usually aren't terrible people. Some of my good friends are. Depends on the dealer really.

 

[ickythump1225]

There in lies a huge part of the problem. American Society and the way the criminal justice and economic systems exist and function has not allowed a huge number of blacks to "move on". They are consistently reminded particularly by the law enforcement aparatus in this country that they are second class citizens. To me these largely peaceful protests are blacks choosing not to "be victims" yet here we sit poo pooing even that.

When certain ethnic European groups in this country (whom I assume we're the grandparents or great grandparents of many on this board) decided to "stop being victims" riots, armed clashes with the police, bombings, assassinations and violence were common. Come to think of it when Jews decided to "stop being victims" they followed that same approach in Palestein. So instead of sitting here wagging our fingers at Blacks yet again how about at the very least commending Blacks for being much more civilized than our forefathers in their struggles against oppression?

None of those "protestors" out there are protesting some noble cause. They're "protesting" the fact that a dude assaulted a police officer, tried to steal his weapon, and then got shot. Now they're "protesting" the fact that another guy resisted arrest and died in police custody. This isn't the new Civil Rights movement. The whole philosophical outlook on the movement seems to be "black people died and the cops were white...RAAACISTTTTTTTTT!!!"

Does racism still exist? Of course it does but most people are in their current life situations because they choose to be there. At some point people have to take responsibility for their own lives. That is the only way you can move forward. Black America is in a prison of their own making.

And "oppression?" Come on. The idea that the current situation in America even is even vaguely similar to the Holocaust, slavery, or what is going on in the Middle East is absurd. Beyond absurd.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Hey I hate the drug laws too, but they're shitty regardless of race.

Except your jail sentence will be 18 times longer for crack, a drug associated with poor & black people, than cocaine, a drug associated with rich & white people. Black people also get longer jail sentences for the same crimes as white people.