Rioting in St Louis

[Booslum31]

They are being made because they are mostly Democratic voters being disenfranchised.

If someone is stopping them from getting an ID...you might have a point. If they can find their way to a voting booth they should be able to find their way to get an ID. Unless ofcourse they are here illegally which is the main reason for the laws. Sorry...nothing to do with race. Nothing.

 

[Irish Insanity]

NJNP, quick question. Is it possible you could post a list of what you think is racist in America? Or being it will be much shorter, or non-existent, a list of what isn't racist.

 

[IrishLax]

Someone asked what laws are discriminatory against blacks. He answered and it spun from there.

Ah OK. Can easily make a case that voter ID laws are far more discriminatory towards my people (Latino/Hispanic immigrants).

However, just because a law affects a certain group doesn't make it racist. For example, ID laws to buy a beer at any establishment in this country also affect people just the same as voter ID laws. So booze laws disproportionately affecting poor people without photo IDs who happen to be disproportionately minorities doesn't mean that they are, by default, "racist."

 

[kmoose]

.

These numbers alone are just that......... numbers. YOU are the one that is turning them into some kind of institutional racism within the police force(s) in the United States. Without knowing the circumstances that led up to those deaths, that claim is no more than your opinion. So then it becomes a question of how much weight and/or sway your opinion holds with other people. And, when you claim racism is the root of every problem that a group of people faces, then your opinion loses strength. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. had a GREAT effect on race relations in the US. He was successful because his voice carried GREAT weight. And it carried great weight because he didn't make ridiculous claims of racism about every perceived injustice.

 

[phgreek]

Voter ID laws are redundant. You only need to register and get your Voter ID. Colin Powell is even on the record for this. In person voter fraud is so rare. Requiring additional IDs are targeting persons who don't have or need drivers licenses or other ID. Who are these people? Urban people, college kids, elderly people and poor people. They are patently discriminatory for political gain. That is not really arguable. There is no other reason for their existence.

oh well, by saying it definitively, it becomes fact...it must be true...

Just because you say it with conviction...It don't mean shit to me...

I have always thought identification of people before they vote is a good idea...never really thought for a minute about race, until someone told me I was racist for thinking that way...to me, voting is something worth PREVENTING fraud and assuring the utmost integrity...all starts with making sure voters are eligible to vote, and doing everything we can to count all votes. Has very little to do with rather people think fraud is prevalent...and everything to do with utmost confidence they can't cheat.

 

[Wild Bill]

Voter ID laws are redundant. You only need to register and get your Voter ID. Colin Powell is even on the record for this. In person voter fraud is so rare. Requiring additional IDs are targeting persons who don't have or need drivers licenses or other ID. Who are these people? Urban people, college kids, elderly people and poor people. They are patently discriminatory for political gain. That is not really arguable. There is no other reason for their existence.

The law is not discriminatory on its face. Everyone is treated the same.

 

[Cackalacky]

oh well, by saying it definitively, it becomes fact...it must be true...

Just because you say it with conviction...It don't mean shit to me...

I have always thought identification of people before they vote is a good idea...never really thought for a minute about race, until someone told me I was racist for thinking that way...to me, voting is something worth PREVENTING fraud and assuring the utmost integrity...all starts with making sure voters are eligible to vote, and doing everything we can to count all votes. Has very little to do with rather people think fraud is prevalent...and everything to do with utmost confidence they can't cheat.

I totally agree but the Voter ID laws that conservatives recently have been passing are made such that it's inarguable who they target and are unnecessary. I can find Colin Powell's take on it but I don't want to muddy up this thread with any more OT stuff. Like Lax pointed out just because a law is discriminatory =! Racism. I thought I might have indicated that point in my earlier post but Lax said it much better.

 

[phgreek]

I totally agree but the Voter ID laws that conservatives recently have been passing are made such that it's inarguable who they target and are unnecessary. I can find Colin Powell's take on it but I don't want to muddy up this thread with any more OT stuff. Like Lax pointed out just because a law is discriminatory =! Racism. I thought I might have indicated that point in my earlier post but Lax said it much better.

I'll go find Powell's take...presume the laws, and specifically the ones he takes issue with, and how they are crafted...those are made pretty clear when he talks it???

 

[Cackalacky]

The law is not discriminatory on its face. Everyone is treated the same.

Texas Voter Registration Act ruled Discriminatory by SCOTUS
I have more.

 

[Cackalacky]

I'll go find Powell's take...presume the laws, and specifically the ones he takes issue with, and how they are crafted...those are made pretty clear when he talks it???

Yes among other interviews he specifically addresses additional requirements while arguing with Bill Oreilly.

 

[GoIrish41]

Ah OK. Can easily make a case that voter ID laws are far more discriminatory towards my people (Latino/Hispanic immigrants).

However, just because a law affects a certain group doesn't make it racist. For example, ID laws to buy a beer at any establishment in this country also affect people just the same as voter ID laws. So booze laws disproportionately affecting poor people without photo IDs who happen to be disproportionately minorities doesn't mean that they are, by default, "racist."

Agree in general but these laws are "solving" a problem tha does noy exist for polotical purposes and unnecessarily placing a barrier to people's constitutional right to vote. No right you buy beer in the constitution.

 

[wizards8507]

Agree in general but these laes are "solving" a problem tha does noy exist for polotical pirposes and unnecessarily placing a barrier to people's constitutional righy to vote. No right yo buy beer in the constitution.

There's a right for me to keep and bear arms in the Constitution, yet it's going to cost me over two months and $300 to get my carry permit. Why is two months and $300 an acceptable burden to a constitutionally protected right but two hours at the DMV for a free identification is so outrageous?

 

[kmoose]

Agree in general but these laws are "solving" a problem tha does noy exist for polotical purposes and unnecessarily placing a barrier to people's constitutional right to vote. No right you buy beer in the constitution.

So you're saying that we should just take people's word, that they are the person that they say they are, at the polls?

 

[Cackalacky]

So you're saying that we should just take people's word, that they are the person that they say they are, at the polls?

False equivalency here. No one is arguing what you are saying. Yes we need Voter registration but poll taxes and other things that are politically motivated are unnecessary.

Can we get back on topic. The voter Id stuff has been discussed ad nauseum in the Politics thread.

 

[GoIrish41]

So you're saying that we should just take people's word, that they are the person that they say they are, at the polls?

No i am not saying that and most states already require some form of id such as a voter registratiom card. Making it more burdensome when there is no problem to be solved seems unAmerican. We should want people to participate in their government not adding barriers.

 

[Bluto]

NJNP, quick question. Is it possible you could post a list of what you think is racist in America? Or being it will be much shorter, or non-existent, a list of what isn't racist.

The entire criminal justice system consistently produces grossly skewed outcomes based solely on race. That demonstrates to me that racism has become institutionalized within that system. If our economic and education systems are producing similar results well then maybe it's time look at the idea that racism might have become embedded in and become a function of the very foundations of our society over the course of the last 200 plus years where racist policies were openly embraced and enthusiastically put into practice within the base cultural institutions (economy, government and education) that make up American society.

 

[kmoose]

No i am not saying that and most states already require some form of id such as a voter registratiom card. Making it more burdensome when there is no problem to be solved seems unAmerican. We should want people to participate in their government not adding barriers.

I guess the difference is that I don't see a voter ID card, which doesn't have a picture on it, to be any different than someone just walking in and saying "I'm John Doe from 123 Main St., and I am here to vote." I guess you could argue that, in order to have the person's voter ID card, the fraudulent voter would have to have some kind of connection to that person; but that's still not much of a deterrent.

 

[D-BOE34]

I hate this whole damn thing. I can list you about 30 people from my FAMILY that are white and trash. They have murders, robbed, sold drugs, acted as "thugs" in todays society that I have nothing to do with. Damn near that entire side of my family is gone from cops, drugs, suicide and even a few have dies during a run from the cops. I don't run around bashing the white people of Kentucky because of them. They were a small portion of my race that made the rest of whites in Kentucky look bad. Only a few people in Ferguson make the community look bad. All this White vs Black shit is a result of the wrong that is happening in this country. It takes a change from the entire community to make waves in America. It takes both sides uniting together to make waves in America. Yet, a few "thugs" can ruin it for an entire community? So stupid in so many ways.

We have fallen so far back it makes me sick.

 

[ab2cmiller]

False equivalency here. No one is arguing what you are saying. Yes we need Voter registration but poll taxes and other things that are politically motivated are unnecessary.

Can we get back on topic. The voter Id stuff has been discussed ad nauseum in the Politics thread.

Yet it was brought up by posters once again crying racism. It only continues to drive home my point. If you cry racism regarding things that are not the most blatant of examples then you only weaken the effectiveness of your argument with the people that you are trying to convince.

I understand that many of you are convinced that Voter ID laws are discriminatory, but when the vast majority of people support the concept of being required to prove your identity before being allowed to vote, your cries of racism fall on deaf ears and they are less likely to be open to your other arguments. I would suggest people pick their examples more carefully.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Awesome protests going on at Times Square because of Garner's killing.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yet it was brought up by posters once again crying racism. It only continues to drive home my point. If you cry racism regarding things that are not the most blatant of examples then you only weaken the effectiveness of your argument with the people that you are trying to convince.

I understand that many of you are convinced that Voter ID laws are discriminatory, but when the vast majority of people support the concept of being required to prove your identity before being allowed to vote, your cries of racism fall on deaf ears and they are less likely to be open to your other arguments. I would suggest people pick their examples more carefully.

The vast majority of people do not support voter id laws

 

[GoIrish41]

Yet it was brought up by posters once again crying racism. It only continues to drive home my point. If you cry racism regarding things that are not the most blatant of examples then you only weaken the effectiveness of your argument with the people that you are trying to convince.

I understand that many of you are convinced that Voter ID laws are discriminatory, but when the vast majority of people support the concept of being required to prove your identity before being allowed to vote, your cries of racism fall on deaf ears and they are less likely to be open to your other arguments. I would suggest people pick their examples more carefully.

And if you dismiss every point in which people see racism then you diminish your argument and demonstrate a lack of open mindedness. So there is that.

 

[ab2cmiller]

And if you dismiss every point in which people see racism then you diminish you argument and demonstrate a lack of open mindedness. So there is that.

I've changed my mind, I think you should point out every instance of racism that you can find.

 

[kmoose]

The vast majority of people do not support voter id laws

What percentage is "the vast majority"?

 

[GoIrish41]

What percentage is "the vast majority"?

You should ask ab2miller. He is the one who claimed a vast majority suppprt voter id laws. I was jist disagreeing.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Protesters have done a great job disrupting today, shutting down a bunch of streets. Really good response to the no indictment on the murder.

 

[kmoose]

You should ask ab2miller. He is the one who claimed a vast majority suppprt voter id laws. I was jist disagreeing.

Actually, he said that the vast majority support having to prove your id before you can vote. That's not really the same. You can support a concept, but disagree with how the government chooses to implement that concept.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I've seen more US police execution videos than ISIS execution videos in the last year.</p>— The Public Archive (@public_archive) <a href="https://twitter.com/public_archive/status/540236296090681344">December 3, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BGIF]

What percentage is "the vast majority"?

Actually half vast.