Rees and Calabrese Suspended for Navy Game in Dublin

[Chris P. Bacon]

So worse case scenario, Golson and Hendrix either struggle and or get hurt at the Navy game, who's the 3rd string QB? Does he take the chance on bringing in Gunner, I wanna hope Kelly goes in with 3 QB's on the roster, but who?

 

[NYMIKE6]

I said it in the Golson thread, but realized it probably should be here.



Listen, i'm a vocal proponent of Team Golson and Team Kiel, but that doesn't mean that I want our coach unfairly punishing our players to ease his PR nightmare about the starting QB. I feel like they should have been given the same opportunities as Floyd to earn their way back.

Not trying to argue your points because they're valid, but i think the suspensions happened they way they did because of 2 reasons. 1) Timing-Floyd's incident happened earlier then the Tommy/Carlo incident. Floyd was dismissed from team for Spring ball. 2) As stated by Haynsworth at B&G "Floyd was a record-setting player at Notre Dame. His value to the team and Coach Kelly was greater than a player struggling to maintain his spot in the starting rotation. Additionally, Kelly worked hard to re-recruit Floyd for his senior season, really hard. He wasn't going to work that hard and then take Floyd for a 9-game regular season. Kelly was protecting his investment".

Wether it's fair or not IMO it's two different situations.

 

[NDPhilly]

I don't think this is fair to Carlo but certainly is for Rees. Missing out on a once in a lifetime opportunity certainly will teach them though.

 

[irishtrinity]

Name Golson the Starter BK!!!

Love my boy Fox also..

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Listen, i'm a vocal proponent of Team Golson and Team Kiel, but that doesn't mean that I want our coach unfairly punishing our players to ease his PR nightmare about the starting QB. I feel like they should have been given the same opportunities as Floyd to earn their way back.

The timing involved with the two incidents likely accounts for the some of the disparity. Floyd got busted over Christmas break, so Kelly was able to suspend him for spring camp. Rees and Calabrese got busted later in the year, so that wasn't an option for them. Fall camp is so critical to every player's prospects for the following season that holding them out of that would be even more draconian. Missing the opener seems like the most fair punishment under the circumstances.

That said, comparisons with Floyd's situation are unavoidable, and it does look a little hypocritical at first blush. Kind of a no-win situation for Kelly.

 

[D-BOE34]

I said it in the Golson thread, but realized it probably should be here.



Listen, i'm a vocal proponent of Team Golson and Team Kiel, but that doesn't mean that I want our coach unfairly punishing our players to ease his PR nightmare about the starting QB. I feel like they should have been given the same opportunities as Floyd to earn their way back.

Floyd was gone all spring, had to move back into the dorms and did whatever the required things were between him and BK. I see your point but Missing 1 game in Ireland is not as big as what Floyd missed. Not IMO at least.

If it comes out one day that Floyd didn't really have to do much other than do good in school then, well, I will agree.

 

[irishtrinity]

Let the guy play a whole game.. I have faith in Golson so i'll ride or die with my boy...

 

[woolybug25]

Not trying to argue your points because they're valid, but i think the suspensions happened they way they did because of 2 reasons. 1) Timing-Floyd's incident happened earlier then the Tommy/Carlo incident. Floyd was dismissed from team for Spring ball. 2) As stated by Haynsworth at B&G "Floyd was a record-setting player at Notre Dame. His value to the team and Coach Kelly was greater than a player struggling to maintain his spot in the starting rotation. Additionally, Kelly worked hard to re-recruit Floyd for his senior season, really hard. He wasn't going to work that hard and then take Floyd for a 9-game regular season. Kelly was protecting his investment".

Wether it's fair or not IMO it's two different situations.

I know that's the argument, but we all know what it really means. Kelly didn't want to punish Floyd in the manner that he is punishing Rees because Floyd was more important to the team. I personally do not like that and think that our program deserves more integrity.

The "Return on Investment" argument for Floyd's re-recruitment of his senior year is BS too. I doubt anybody thinks that if this was Teo, regardless of him being out of eligibility, he would be getting punished like Rees.

 

[D-BOE34]

Let the guy play a whole game.. I have faith in Golson so i'll ride or die with my boy...

What happens to the list if you die?

 

[Ironman8]

So worse case scenario, Golson and Hendrix either struggle and or get hurt at the Navy game, who's the 3rd string QB? Does he take the chance on bringing in Gunner, I wanna hope Kelly goes in with 3 QB's on the roster, but who?

Goodman could be an emergency third QB. He has done that in the past.

Danny Spond was a pretty good high school QB as well.

Could also suit up a walk-on QB for the game in his place for depth.

 

[IrishLion]

I said it in the Golson thread, but realized it probably should be here.



Listen, i'm a vocal proponent of Team Golson and Team Kiel, but that doesn't mean that I want our coach unfairly punishing our players to ease his PR nightmare about the starting QB. I feel like they should have been given the same opportunities as Floyd to earn their way back.

Floyd missed all of the offseason workouts before fall camp started, including spring practices / Blue and Gold game. I know missing a spring game is not comparable to missing a trip to Ireland, but they are not missing any workouts/practices. BK was put in a bad situation, and would be criticized for any punishment he gave them, simply because of the timing. If they get busted before the spring, I think they get the same as Floyd based on precedent.

I also think you have to consider that Floyd cooperated when he got busted, while Tommy ran and Carlo made (funny) threats.

 

[Grahambo]

Not the way I wanted them to lose their jobs. I'd much prefer them to lose their jobs simply because others stepped up and proved they were better. I also believe they should have at least been able to travel with the team.

 

[scUM Hater]

Feel bad they will miss the trip, but I am sure Kelly is trying to set a new standard. He has to be sick of dealing with the legal troubles the last 2 offseasons. There is enough to be worried about/ deal with being the head coach of ND.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Furthermore, celebrating a kid missing an opportunity like playing in Dublin is sad. We should be better fans than to openly cheer one of our players getting suspended simply because it makes it easier for another player to take his position.

I'm sure Golson would have much rather earned his spot over Rees than getting it through a punishment to Rees.

Some of the comments i'm reading are really poor.

I don't think there is any need for sympathy for Rees and Carlo for not being able to go to the Navy game in Dublin. They made their decisions and have to face the consequences, and those are to not be with the team. I'm not sure it's a celebration, but more of a relief that a decision has been made, and made for the better of the team and the University. There's no reason not to celebrate when a decision like this helps our football team.

I'm sure Golson knew he was competing against Hendrix, if he was to lose his spot to Rees or any other QB it would be on his own shoulders for not outplaying or out preparing for the Job, not because of CBK's decision.

We all wanted it down to either Golson or Hendrix, and this decision just helps us get what we all want, a perfect reason to be happy and celebrate the decision.

Forget Lebron and his 'Decision', this is the new 'Decision' and opposite of Lebrons public decision, this 'Decision is well accepted throughout Irish Nation.

GO IRISH!

 

[woolybug25]

The timing involved with the two incidents likely accounts for the some of the disparity. Floyd got busted over Christmas break, so Kelly was able to suspend him for spring camp. Rees and Calabrese got busted later in the year, so that wasn't an option for them. Fall camp is so critical to every player's prospects for the following season that holding them out of that would be even more draconian. Missing the opener seems like the most fair punishment under the circumstances.

That said, comparisons with Floyd's situation are unavoidable, and it does look a little hypocritical at first blush. Kind of a no-win situation for Kelly.

I understand this point too. But why couldn't Rees be suspended for all of fall camp? This would have been the same as Floyd missing spring and would have ended in the same result for the QB battle. Having Tommy suspended for all of fall camp and giving him the opportunity to return for the Navy game (which he obviously wouldn't be prepared for because of his absence in fall camp) if he met certain academic, personal and philanthropic goals would have been fair by the precedence Kelly set with Floyd.

 

[Zwidmanio]

I said it in the Golson thread, but realized it probably should be here.


Listen, i'm a vocal proponent of Team Golson and Team Kiel, but that doesn't mean that I want our coach unfairly punishing our players to ease his PR nightmare about the starting QB. I feel like they should have been given the same opportunities as Floyd to earn their way back.

I certainly hope that BK isn't using this as a way to slide a different QB in, but with that being said, I do think that the Floyd vs. Rees/Calabrese situations are different and have been incorrectly compared by many. Without getting into the merits of the relative wrongness of a DUI/third alcohol related offense vs. minor in possession/etc., Floyd did end up missing all of Spring ball if I recall correctly. I could understand an argument that missing the Dublin game and possibly losing their spot on the depth chart is a far greater punishment, but Floyd did get punished as well. So far, aside from the one game, I don't think Rees or Calabrese have received any football related punishment yet.

The timing of the incidents is also in play here. Once again, I hope BK isn't using this as an excuse, but the timing of the incidents made this outcome more likely. Floyd's DUI occurred during the winter, if I'm remembering correctly, whereas Rees/Calbrese's incident occurred at the end of Spring. If BK were to take the next available opportunity to punish those involved, then it actually makes sense that Floyd would miss out on Spring and Rees/Calabrese would miss out on Fall football activities.

Furthermore, celebrating a kid missing an opportunity like playing in Dublin is sad. We should be better fans than to openly cheer one of our players getting suspended simply because it makes it easier for another player to take his position.

I'm sure Golson would have much rather earned his spot over Rees than getting it through a punishment to Rees.

Some of the comments i'm reading are really poor.

I couldn't agree with the above any more. I'll be as happy as anybody if/when Golson starts the game against Navy, but I'm sad for Tommy. He's still a ND football player and despite whatever anybody thinks of his abilities, they should support him as such.

Edit: I see a number of people have addressed this in the time it took me to write my reply. Oh wells.

 

[woolybug25]

Floyd missed all of the offseason workouts before fall camp started, including spring practices / Blue and Gold game. I know missing a spring game is not comparable to missing a trip to Ireland, but they are not missing any workouts/practices. BK was put in a bad situation, and would be criticized for any punishment he gave them, simply because of the timing. If they get busted before the spring, I think they get the same as Floyd based on precedent.

I also think you have to consider that Floyd cooperated when he got busted, while Tommy ran and Carlo made (funny) threats.

Floyd's crime was worse and he put innocent people's lives in danger. He cooperated because he was **** drunk and busted completely while Rees was trying to avoid getting caught.


Let's not kid ourselves, gentleman. If you think that Teo would be missing Dublin in this situation, then you are being naive.

 

[Emcee77]

I also think you have to consider that Floyd cooperated when he got busted, while Tommy ran and Carlo made (funny) threats.

Yeah, I get this. The DUI is obviously the more serious offense ... it is extreme recklessness that puts lives at risk. But fighting with cops and threatening them ... it looks bad, like the kids are out of control. It's almost more embarrassing to the program. Put another way, a DUI is a reckless act, something that is extremely irresponsible but that you can do just without thinking, whereas Tommy and Carlo's offenses are intentional acts. They may have been less serious but still this type of discipline seems appropriate to me. And who knows, maybe if the first game of the year last year had been Navy in Dublin, CBK would have suspended Floyd for that one too. Whiskey's timing point is a good one.

 

[Chris P. Bacon]

Bottom Line;

There is no comparison between what Floyd did on the field, and what Rees/Carlo have done on the field, or lack there of. Whether it's fair or whether you like it or not, when you perform on a higher level than your teammates and or co-workers in life, favoritism will always benefit those that perform better at their specific job. Kelly has a job to do and thats to win Football games, and not having Rees/Carlo on the field when you have better players to replace them isn't hurting the team. When Floyd was in trouble, it wasn't as if Kelly had another WR at Floyd's level, hence Floyd being on the field right away. There's no loss with not having Rees/Carlo at the NAvy game, it's not as if we're facing OKLA/USC. IF Rees/Carlo were really punished unfairly and are truly the better players, then I think the coaches will put them in the lineup.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, I get this. The DUI is obviously the more serious offense ... it is extreme recklessness that puts lives at risk. But fighting with cops and threatening them ... it looks bad, like the kids are out of control. It's almost more embarrassing to the program. Put another way, a DUI is a reckless act, something that is extremely irresponsible but that you can do just without thinking, whereas Tommy and Carlo's offenses are intentional acts. They may have been less serious but still this type of discipline seems appropriate to me. And who knows, maybe if the first game of the year last year had been Navy in Dublin, CBK would have suspended Floyd for that one too.

That's a rationalization at best. We both know Floyd would not be getting suspended. I also think that allowing a player on his third alcohol arrest back on the team (especially considering the last one is a DUI) is far more embarrassing than Rees, who would probably come to the Navy game as a backup anyway, a chance to earn his way back off a first offense misdemeanor.

I bought into the "Michael has to earn his way back" argument because I truly feel that it was the best way to teach him a lesson and turn his life towards the right direction. He took advantage of the opportunity, graduated and is now looking a promising career. My entire feelings that Kelly was doing what was best for Michael as person are now being seriously questioned with his decision in this matter, imo.

 

[woolybug25]

Bottom Line;

There is no comparison between what Floyd did on the field, and what Rees/Carlo have done on the field, or lack there of. Whether it's fair or whether you like it or not, when you perform on a higher level than your teammates and or co-workers in life, favoritism will always benefit those that perform better at their specific job. Kelly has a job to do and thats to win Football games, and not having Rees/Carlo on the field when you have better players to replace them isn't hurting the team. When Floyd was in trouble, it wasn't as if Kelly had another WR at Floyd's level, hence Floyd being on the field right away. There's no loss with not having Rees/Carlo at the NAvy game, it's not as if we're facing OKLA/USC. IF Rees/Carlo were really punished unfairly and are truly the better players, then I think the coaches will put them in the lineup.

That's fine if that is how you feel, but I disagree. I feel like Our Mother's University is suppose to stand for integrity and principles. This decision spits on both of those and is clearly a "business decision".

I'm sad today.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Massa could also be the QB 3

 

[Grahambo]

Massa could also be the QB 3

I'm sure I have some eligibility..jus' sayin.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I understand this point too. But why couldn't Rees be suspended for all of fall camp? This would have been the same as Floyd missing spring and would have ended in the same result for the QB battle. Having Tommy suspended for all of fall camp and giving him the opportunity to return for the Navy game (which he obviously wouldn't be prepared for because of his absence in fall camp) if he met certain academic, personal and philanthropic goals would have been fair by the precedence Kelly set with Floyd.

Just guessing, but Kelly may very well need Rees this season. I wouldn't assume Hendrix is automatically the #2 now. Missing fall camp probably isn't an option for a player you may have to rely on during the season.

Floyd's crime was worse and he put innocent people's lives in danger. He cooperated because he was **** drunk and busted completely while Rees was trying to avoid getting caught.

Yes and no. It was definitely more serious in terms of potential consequences, but it's also a very common offense in our society; put another way, it was less embarrassing for the University. When our starting QB runs from, assaults, and gets maced by the cops, it looks worse for ND.

It's important that we not disregard everything except game suspensions in this discussion. That's what myopic CFB fans do when they want to wag a finger at opposing coaches, since they only consider punishments that impact the on-field strength of each team. Floyd's situation was simply different-- it happened much earlier in the year, and given his history, Kelly basically put him on a 12-step program and made him walk the line. Rees and Calabrese made some stupid decisions that embarrassed the University, so their consequences are more punitive than rehabilitory.

Let's not kid ourselves, gentleman. If you think that Teo would be missing Dublin in this situation, then you are being naive.

Hard to entertain this scenario, since Te'o is such a straight-laced kid. Regardless, I won't say Te'o would skate if he got in any kind of serious trouble.

 

[gkIrish]

Wooly is spot on.

 

[mkg77]

The timing involved with the two incidents likely accounts for the some of the disparity. Floyd got busted over Christmas break, so Kelly was able to suspend him for spring camp. Rees and Calabrese got busted later in the year, so that wasn't an option for them. Fall camp is so critical to every player's prospects for the following season that holding them out of that would be even more draconian. Missing the opener seems like the most fair punishment under the circumstances.

That said, comparisons with Floyd's situation are unavoidable, and it does look a little hypocritical at first blush. Kind of a no-win situation for Kelly.

This is right. The Floyd punishment would have been to make him miss the first 15 practices of the Fall, which I think would have screwed him over a good deal more than missing the first game.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I know that's the argument, but we all know what it really means. Kelly didn't want to punish Floyd in the manner that he is punishing Rees because Floyd was more important to the team. I personally do not like that and think that our program deserves more integrity.

I don't think it is possible for me to disagree more strongly with your take here. The two situations are entirely different. Floyd was suspended for the spring; Kelly couldn't have given Tommy and Carlo the same punishment. If you look at Floyd not missing a game and think that means Tommy and Carlo shouldn't either, then you are basically saying they don't deserve any punishment at all. Where is the integrity in that?

Bottom line: Kelly could not have given Tommy and Carlo the same punishment, so the two situations aren't worthy of a comparison.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I don't care about Floyd. Rees deserves to be suspended for assaulting an officer.

 

[IrishLion]

Floyd's crime was worse and he put innocent people's lives in danger. He cooperated because he was **** drunk and busted completely while Rees was trying to avoid getting caught.


Let's not kid ourselves, gentleman. If you think that Teo would be missing Dublin in this situation, then you are being naive.

I don't think it's so naive to think that someone making their first mistake, combined with the timing of the occurence, would miss the first game, no matter who it is. It could be Teo, could be someone barely on the depth chart; the point is that I think the punishment would have been the same regardless of who it was.

And I think that Kelly is making them earn their way back, just like Floyd. They must earn their way back from the bottom of the depth chart, after they are set back by missing the first game. Floyd had to earn his way back after missing a game as well, but back into the actual program.

 

[DSully1995]

I don't care about Floyd. Rees deserves to be suspended for assaulting an officer.

Ridiculous, he is innocent until proven guilty, and never got convicted of assault.