Racism

[Bluto]

Are there zero US veterans who are minorities? Are there only white kids fighting cancer?

Sure, I'm in. And to take it a step further, eliminate the Federal Dept of Education.

At the state level, let governors approve school choice, dissolve teacher unions, and don't trap minority children in awful school districts with no alternate options.

Most minority children being “trapped” in awful school districts is directly related to the process of redlining way back when.

Anyhow, if you want to dissolve the Dept of Ed I’d be for that as long as local public schools were guaranteed to be equally funded across the board.

If you want to dissolve teachers unions I would be for that as well as long as there was guaranteed healthcare with a $20 co pay, starting salaries for teachers were 150k and escalated based on outcomes/performance, 2 hot meals a day were provided free to all students, after school care/rec activities were provided free to all students by well paid and qualified professionals, classroom size was limited to 15 students per class, special ed teachers were available as needed as, free transportation to and from school was provided, schools were limited in size to 500 students and neighborhood based.

The above is basically asking for our school system to receive resources similar to the current prison/defense system so I don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask.

 

[RDU Irish]

Most minority children being “trapped” in awful school districts is directly related to the process of redlining way back when.

Anyhow, if you want to dissolve the Dept of Ed I’d be for that as long as local public schools were guaranteed to be equally funded across the board.

If you want to dissolve teachers unions I would be for that as well as long as there was guaranteed healthcare with a $20 co pay, starting salaries for teachers were 150k and escalated based on outcomes/performance, 2 hot meals a day were provided free to all students, after school care/rec activities were provided free to all students by well paid and qualified professionals, classroom size was limited to 15 students per class, special ed teachers were available as needed as, free transportation to and from school was provided, schools were limited in size to 500 students and neighborhood based.

The above is basically asking for our school system to receive resources similar to the current prison/defense system so I don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask.

I agree unconditionally with the bolded.

Conditions in schools would improve dramatically if administrators were allowed to administrate. Ban hammer shitty teachers with some rational incentive comp and ship delinquent students to state military schools - watch how quickly conditions improve. Teachers don't want to be abused by students and administrators are there to run interference between parents so teachers aren't hassled. Pretty good recipe for apathy on all fronts.

Teachers are paid a lot for effectively a part time job with 25% to 50% of their day allocated to "prep" time. Making it more about the money is ludicrous. Pay more for STEM teachers you can't find and less for kindergarten teachers with 2000 applicants per opening. Supply and demand. But the bulk of teaching - it is the work environment destroying the job, not the pay.

North Carolina Teacher Salary (What You Need To Know) | TeachNC | TeachNC

$41k minimum STARTING salary in NC with full pension before add ons from the county. "A North Carolina teacher’s salary is comparable to or even higher than many other fields. Plus, teachers are contracted to work about 190 days each year—compared to 260 work days in most other fields" More than three months off per year - don't forget, you are off when your kids are off so the amount you can save on camps and daycare is astronomical. Teachers being some abused slave class of labor is faker news than the Steele Dossier.

Factored for actual work time- a starting teacher makes more than a starting RN per hour. With a state pension to boot.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Most minority children being “trapped” in awful school districts is directly related to the process of redlining way back when.

Anyhow, if you want to dissolve the Dept of Ed I’d be for that as long as local public schools were guaranteed to be equally funded across the board.

If you want to dissolve teachers unions I would be for that as well as long as there was guaranteed healthcare with a $20 co pay, starting salaries for teachers were 150k and escalated based on outcomes/performance, 2 hot meals a day were provided free to all students, after school care/rec activities were provided free to all students by well paid and qualified professionals, classroom size was limited to 15 students per class, special ed teachers were available as needed as, free transportation to and from school was provided, schools were limited in size to 500 students and neighborhood based.

The above is basically asking for our school system to receive resources similar to the current prison/defense system so I don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask.

My dad was an educator for 40 years (private and public) and I got my master's in secondary edu. Just adding context before I disagree with you. Most of the above is desirable as it is unreasonable.

1) Redlining would have no impact on districts like LA, NY, and Chicago.

2) In regard to all your demands, it would be entirely up to each school district/ state and their allocated resources for teacher salaries and benefits. We all know that $150k in Boston isn't the same as $150k in Nebraska.

3) The faulty logic with your comparison is that public education is mandatory K-12 and kids have to be there, but everyone in prison made decisions that led them there. The number of students in school K-12 is a country compared to the number in the prison system. Apples and oranges.

4) The US doesn't have enough teachers to support your desired teacher-student ratio.

5) As far as I know, zero students are denied access to special edu teachers.

6) Free transportation is already included in local taxes.

7) "Neighborhood based" and student population caps don't equate. No pun intended.

8) Extra curriculars are what they are...extra. More personnel. More salaries. More taxes. It would be up to each district/ state. Same with meals and such.

 

[Irish#1]

Saw the father on TV yesterday. This is terrible. Evidently he went to the principal and administration over 20 times and nothing was done. He's filing a suit. Those in the school system should be terminated.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/local-father-pushing-for-change-after-10-year-old-died-by-suicide/

 

[IrishLax]

Astounding. So they were just letting in tons of grossly unqualified people. Interested to see what impact this has on med schools.

 

[Armyirish47]

Astounding. So they were just letting in tons of grossly unqualified people. Interested to see what impact this has on med schools.

How did you get to "grossly unqualified"?

 

[SeekNDestroy]

Saw the father on TV yesterday. This is terrible. Evidently he went to the principal and administration over 20 times and nothing was done. He's filing a suit. Those in the school system should be terminated.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/local-father-pushing-for-change-after-10-year-old-died-by-suicide/

So awful. If that happened to my family, I would absolutely go after every bully and their families. Scorched earth.

 

[ulukinatme]

Saw the father on TV yesterday. This is terrible. Evidently he went to the principal and administration over 20 times and nothing was done. He's filing a suit. Those in the school system should be terminated.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/local-father-pushing-for-change-after-10-year-old-died-by-suicide/

This is the sad truth. We've seen it in our community. There have been a few high school kids in the last 5-7 years that have committed suicide due to bullying, and we're a small community. My daughter wound up on the high school marching band in 7th grade because a number of the former band members quit after the most recent suicide. The school preaches anti-bullying, but there's little enforcement despite the recent past. It's unbelievable these things continue to happen and nothing is done.

 

[RDU Irish]

This is the sad truth. We've seen it in our community. There have been a few high school kids in the last 5-7 years that have committed suicide due to bullying, and we're a small community. My daughter wound up on the high school marching band in 7th grade because a number of the former band members quit after the most recent suicide. The school preaches anti-bullying, but there's little enforcement despite the recent past. It's unbelievable these things continue to happen and nothing is done.

When our oldest was in eighth grade he was given a concussion in religion class and we had to call the cops b/c the school wouldn't do anything trying to cover it up. Kid twice his size snuck up and bashed his head against the wall in the middle of class. Kid was a transfer after being kicked out of another school. Police report was blank and we were run through the mud for making a scene. That's a private catholic school in an affluent city too. Good luck out there folks.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

How did you get to "grossly unqualified"?

I think it's pronounced "legacy."

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

7th grade sucks. I have an 8th grader and 7th grader currently. 8th grader is loving life, last year it was misery. 7th grader right now is in misery after enjoying 6th grade last year. We have a 4th grader who will be in middle school in two years.

Our 7th grader's math class is full of complete degenerate asshole kids. One kid was caught vandalizing political yard signs in his neighborhood earlier this fall (he had a particular fondness for Harris Walz signs and ended up being undone by a Ring doorbell camera). This handful of little asswipes disrupt the class on a daily basis. Our daughter was recently caught in the crossfire. We've emailed the teacher multiple times and spoke to her at parent teacher conferences. At least two of these kids are high on the radar not only at the school but in the District. It is getting to the point that we're past the point of no return and something needs to happen. So happens her toughest subject is math, and this environment isn't helping matters.

I know the majority of our school board members because I helped put all but 2 of them there via local elections. I use that conduit as much as I am able without abusing it, and my wife is a teacher so we communicate with the teachers when we feel it is warranted and offer our support as allies far more often than not. Regarding this math class of dickheads, after Christmas break we're probably going to take it a step further and go up the chain at the school. Too many of these teachers are left powerless because administrators don't want to rock the boat with parents, many of whom are just complete assholes.

The only ones who are going to advocate for our daughter are us. Just the way it is. Thankfully we have a new superintendent this year and change is coming (code of conduct for students AND parents) but it's time we get things moving along now.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Our family's experience is that a new administrator usually results in trying to do the "right thing". There are rules, there are consequences for not following the rules.

Year 1 - Extreme hope based upon Administrators initial actions
Year 2 - Still mostly hopeful, but a few isolated decisions causing some concern
Year 3 - Fearing that this Administrator will end up like the rest as more and more items causing concern to grow.
Year 4 - Thinking "we are screwed" as it's become obvious that the Administrator has lost all courage and resigned to the fact that the Administrator is totally bought into not rocking the boat.

 

[IrishLax]

How did you get to "grossly unqualified"?

If you cannot get them in anymore, that means they are far outside the normal distribution of other students (or way below the "lower quartile" line). If you are just a little outside, then you could still get them in because it's easy to justify based on other holistic factors. They ended up with *less than half* of what they had the previous year, so an easy conclusion to draw is that greater than 50% of the black students they were admitting did not have close to the GPA/LSAT scores to qualify on merit.

 

[Armyirish47]

If you cannot get them in anymore, that means they are far outside the normal distribution of other students (or way below the "lower quartile" line). If you are just a little outside, then you could still get them in because it's easy to justify based on other holistic factors. They ended up with *less than half* of what they had the previous year, so an easy conclusion to draw is that greater than 50% of the black students they were admitting did not have close to the GPA/LSAT scores to qualify on merit.

Oh so instead of looking at actual data about the applicants, or bar passage rates by class by demographic, or class by class comparisons of GPS/LSAT to see if they were skewed versus previous years etc. etc. to tease out actual information you just made some assumptions and went with "tons of grossly unqualified" people. Easy is certainly one way to put it.

 

[IrishLax]

Oh so instead of looking at actual data about the applicants, or bar passage rates by class by demographic, or class by class comparisons of GPS/LSAT to see if they were skewed versus previous years etc. etc. to tease out actual information you just made some assumptions and went with "tons of grossly unqualified" people. Easy is certainly one way to put it.

I don’t know why it’s polarizing to talk in facts. There are plenty of black lawyers capable of getting into lower tier law schools or passing the bar. There are very few with the GPA/LSAT combo to get into places like Harvard on objective metrics. This isn’t my opinion, this is the data.

 

[IrishLax]

And I want to know what the moral high ground is to take spots away from high GPA / high test score Asians and give them to lower performing people of a different skill color. Do you want America to be a meritocracy or do you want handouts based on gender/race quotas? That’s the part of this that is opinion, and it’s fine to make the argument either direction, but there is a reason that our courts ruled in favor of the Asians who were being discriminated against.

 

[Armyirish47]

I don’t know why it’s polarizing to talk in facts. There are plenty of black lawyers capable of getting into lower tier law schools or passing the bar. There are very few with the GPA/LSAT combo to get into places like Harvard on objective metrics. This isn’t my opinion, this is the data.

Lol, you weren't talking in facts, you were making easy assumptions, as you plainly stated after I asked how you got to "tons of grossly unqualified" people. Now you've brought in Taki (love their chips!) so I guess it explains everything. I'm not polarized, just curious. And between burning all my buddies about their being grossly unqualified and digging in to some Ann Coulter on the Taki I've got lots of entertainment before kickoff tomorrow!

 

[IrishLax]

Lol, you weren't talking in facts, you were making easy assumptions, as you plainly stated after I asked how you got to "tons of grossly unqualified" people. Now you've brought in Taki (love their chips!) so I guess it explains everything. I'm not polarized, just curious. And between burning all my buddies about their being grossly unqualified and digging in to some Ann Coulter on the Taki I've got lots of entertainment before kickoff tomorrow!

I mean I can link you a half dozen studies or columns on this (and even more for med school) about how qualified Asians were getting denied spots but this is the internet. Most people aren’t reading that shit. If you think I’m uninformed because I’m simplifying things you would be mistaken.

 

[Armyirish47]

I mean I can link you a half dozen studies or columns on this (and even more for med school) about how qualified Asians were getting denied spots but this is the internet. Most people aren’t reading that shit. If you think I’m uninformed because I’m simplifying things you would be mistaken.

Send them on, anytime I read about there not being enough smart Blacks to go around which means they are inherently grossly unqualified to do some job training my curiosity meter goes wild.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I don’t know why it’s polarizing to talk in facts. There are plenty of black lawyers capable of getting into lower tier law schools or passing the bar. There are very few with the GPA/LSAT combo to get into places like Harvard on objective metrics. This isn’t my opinion, this is the data.

And there's a big part of the problem. You can't fix something that's broken if you do everything possible to avoid admitting it's broken. I seriously doubt Blacks are fundamentally incapable of producing top notch intellectuals capable of getting into the best medical and law schools on merit. The problem appears to be a culture and educational system that hinders them from doing so and severely limits the number who those who can. Until we address that, you'll get low rates of high achievement and an endless supply of excuses from those who don't want to admit what the real problem is.

 

[IrishLax]

Law:

Do Underrepresented Minority (URM) Applicants Have a Law School Admissions Advantage? - LSAT and Law School Admissions Blog

Law school admissions decisions are often thought to be formulaic and assume LSAT and GPA are the only important elements. We cannot deny that those numbers play a huge (and important) part in most admissions decisions. But, they aren’t the only factors that matter. We’ve previously discussed...

blog.powerscore.com

Summary — URMs get a 7% boost for their ethnicity.

Medicine:

Do MCAT scores predict USMLE scores? An analysis on 5 years of medical student data - PubMed

Each of the MCAT component scores was significantly associated with USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 CK scores, although the effect size was small. Being in the top or bottom scoring range of the MCAT exam was predictive of being in the top or bottom scoring range of the USMLE exams, although the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Validity of MCAT Scores in Predicting Students' Performance and Progress in Medical School: Results From a Multisite Study - PubMed

These data demonstrate that MCAT scores add value to the prediction of medical student performance and progress and that applicants from different backgrounds who enter medical school with similar ranges of MCAT scores and UGPAs perform similarly in the curriculum.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Summary — On average Asians who matriculate to med school score 90th percentile, Blacks score 65th to get in. Asians are actually most discriminated against relative to Native Americans where they have much higher GPAs and MCAT scores but are accepted at a lower rate. Under the old MCAT, the percentages were even more jarring.

General Primer from Harvard Law Review:

The Harvard Plan That Failed Asian Americans - Harvard Law Review

In November 2014, Students for Fair Admissions (SFFA) filed a complaint against Harvard College in federal district court. SFFA claims that Harvard discriminates against...

harvardlawreview.org

Simply put there has been active discrimination for decades in undergraduate and graduate programs to enroll underqualified URMs. That’s why SCOTUS ruled how they did, and there is mountains of evidence to this fact. This is the first year of “fair” admissions without boosting people based on how they look, and the changes are more than expected. Many thought that there would still be work arounds.

 

[IrishLax]

And there's a big part of the problem. You can't fix something that's broken if you do everything possible to avoid admitting it's broken. I seriously doubt Blacks are fundamentally incapable of producing top notch intellectuals capable of getting into the best medical and law schools on merit. The problem appears to be a culture and educational system that hinders them from doing so and severely limits the number who those who can. Until we address that, you'll get low rates of high achievement and an endless supply of excuses from those who don't want to admit what the real problem is.

Asians and whites certainly have better access to educational resources, have on average much better/safer schools, etc. Which was the whole purpose of affirmative action.

What they’re finding though is that — for whatever reason, and this is above my pay grade — when you look at test scores as a primary metric there are just not a lot of people scoring in the “Tier 1” realm. When you drop down a tier or two there are many more that qualify.

What’s interesting is that black lawyers appear to drastically outperform Asian peers *after* law school in terms of getting top tier law partnerships, judge appointments, etc.

 

[Blazers46]

 

[Irish#1]

Would be best to use your brain before using your emotions.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Would be best to use your brain before using your emotions.

Do you know who you're speaking to? These are the ones who are all emotions, no thought.

 

[IrishLax]

 

[GATTACA!]

Just be thankful he said black....

 

[Irish#1]

Just be thankful he said black....

If he posted that he's thinking it. He probably typed the other word, but it wouldn't let him post? Sicko

 

[ulukinatme]

Dude looks like a 2nd class Troll based on his replies, but I wouldn't put it past him to be actually racist too. Scumbags like this are why the internet is both the worst and greatest invention of our time. It used to be having your words published in a paper was an honor because not many got such a privilege. Now every idiot has a soapbox and can reach the masses.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Freeman is black? I guess he is.

I didn't notice.