Racism

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Cackalacky

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I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com



Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.
 
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drayer54

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I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com

It's incredibly messed up for a kid to do this to another kid, regardless of what they look like. I would hope it isn't because of what he looked like.

I've always had the Blazing Saddles approach to handling race. Make fun of it and be totally blunt about it. People are so concerned about being PC or victims and they always dodge the real issues.
 

wizards8507

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I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com
There's nothing racist in that article. Like, at all. A black kid and his redneck friend did some stupid shit and the kid ends up on fire. Then a black police captain investigates the incident and the white kid ends up charged.

I distinctly recall being around that age when my friends shoved my feet in a jack-o-lantern bucket full of thumb tacks. Not as severe, but the same dumbass kid thought process.

I don't get where the allegations of racism come into play at all. The two kids were friends and the cop conducting the investigation was black.

Also, the article is bullshit. As evidence that "Jim Crow still lingers in this county blah blah," they cite a 1944 case where a black teenager was convicted of murder.
 

Old Man Mike

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Gentlemen, I'll duck posting in this thread, but in case I want to read and learn something: could someone begin this thing by attempting to write a useful definition of "racism" to which other commentators might refer when they unload their own opinions (and God Forbid prejudices)?
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Gentlemen, I'll duck posting in this thread, but in case I want to read and learn something: could someone begin this thing by attempting to write a useful definition of "racism" to which other commentators might refer when they unload their own opinions (and God Forbid prejudices)?



Definition of racism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination
 
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Bogtrotter07

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It's incredibly messed up for a kid to do this to another kid, regardless of what they look like. I would hope it isn't because of what he looked like.

I've always had the Blazing Saddles approach to handling race. Make fun of it and be totally blunt about it. People are so concerned about being PC or victims and they always dodge the real issues.

A long time ago, I used to do that too.

But then I found out it wasn't okay for white people, with all they had, to kid about something that was an everyday reality for others. One that wasn't at all advantageous.

It would kind of like Buckeye fans kidding ND about sometimes having a 'real college football team' after the results of the last five or so meetings between the two teams. Stuff like, 'Let the women's basketball team play, it couldn't be much worse!'

The only problem with my analogy is the Constitution doesn't say all teams are created equal, so we Irish fans have to suffer it. No individual should ever have to because of a trait or feature, however.

There's nothing racist in that article. Like, at all. A black kid and his redneck friend did some stupid shit and the kid ends up on fire. Then a black police captain investigates the incident and the white kid ends up charged.

I distinctly recall being around that age when my friends shoved my feet in a jack-o-lantern bucket full of thumb tacks. Not as severe, but the same dumbass kid thought process.

I don't get where the allegations of racism come into play at all. The two kids were friends and the cop conducting the investigation was black.

Also, the article is bullshit. As evidence that "Jim Crow still lingers in this county blah blah," they cite a 1944 case where a black teenager was convicted of murder.

Here is a real problem. Not only is there enough anecdotal evidence to show that a professional investigation wasn't conducted by the lame duck sherriff, but there is actually information not touched on in this article that shows white firefighters' suppressed information in the investigation. And their determination that what the step-father claimed happened couldn't be true.

So, not only don't I agree with you, I would point to your response as a classical example of racism, spawned by white privilege. Every one of your misstatements of the facts from claiming the boys to be friends, to seeing this as anything but a sneak attack supports that. If you had bad things happen to you as a kid that resulted in your intensive care hospitalization for two days, I am sorry.

The closest thing I remember is having a big kid repeatedly punch me at the baseball diamond because they wanted to kick us out. I started to walk away, and he and his friends started to laugh at me. I just walked over to our equipment pile and picked up my #34 Louisville Slugger, turned around and went for him. He turned just in time for me to hit him over the head with a life changing blow. If he hadn't had an old-fashioned catcher's mask on and up, I probably would have killed him.

So when he took off running after me, I still beat him out of the park and the half-block to my home. As luck would have it, my oldest cousin and his partner, (truly a couple of Irish whales) had just stopped by to see my parents while on patrol. They looked at me bleeding, and such, and this kid coming after me and they snatched his ass. They took him home with lights on and scared the holy family out of his mom.

I asked him if the kid was going to get in trouble, and my cousin said no with a smile, that they were bluffing when they returned him, and that I hit the kid so hard that he didn't know what day it was. They just wanted to keep his parents from going after us.

Kids can be guilty of assault and battery, and even the kind of blood letting we went through, both of us saw it coming. This kid got burned on his back, with second and third-degree burns. The were 100% on his back and the worst were at the point of origin of the fire. He was doused and lit from behind, so he never saw it coming. So they weren't playing.

And incidental ignition of clothing almost doesn't happen anymore, without being doused by an accelerant. No, you can get spark smoldering clothing off well before it is a problem, and even then burns aren't as severe. Accelerant on the skin produces second and third-degree burns.

Finally, one thing not included in the definition of racism, it survives with ignorance. The 1944 murder case that you claim isn't relevant, is a case where a 14-year-old was executed after a confession was coerced from him, and he was not allowed to see his family over months of incarceration. Though he was executed, the trial conviction was vacated in 2013 because his rights were so egregiously violated. And they were violated because he was black.
 

wizards8507

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Bogs, if the kids weren't friends, why did the black kid sneak out of the house to go play with the white kid? Why were they playing in the sprinklers with one another?

Regarding the fire department, if you have information that's not in the article, please share.

Of course the 1944 case was racism. My objection is that the author used it as evidence of the legacy of Jim Crow. Obviously it's not relevant to commentary of POST Jim Crow.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
 
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NorthDakota

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Kids are dumb and cruel. I don't think race really comes into this one. Hope the little guy ends up alright.

Never underestimate children's stupidity.
 
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Cackalacky

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We all know what racism is. We dont need a definition. The question is that is what we see today racism?
 
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Cackalacky

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Kids are dumb and cruel. I don't think race really comes into this one. Hope the little guy ends up alright.

Never underestimate children's stupidity.

The handling of the case by they police is certainly questionable. The lies about how the kid caught fire (later debunked) is certainly weird. The boys mother is the one claiming that racism played a part in the investigation, less so with the actual burning.
 

drayer54

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A long time ago, I used to do that too.
But then I found out it wasn't okay for white people, with all they had, to kid about something that was an everyday reality for others. One that wasn't at all advantageous.
What do I have? I hate it when people act like being white is some kind of birth right perpetuity. I went to an urban school where I was the minority. I actually did a minority to minority transfer, as a white kid, in Dallas, TX and turned a few heads from the school office when I did it. I still remember sticking our hands up at the end of football practice to break and mine stood out. I was educated in an equal playing field in my public education then I got a couple degrees paid for by Uncle Sam and the GI Bill after serving because I, like most in my school, couldn't just go to college (especially one like ND!) on daddy's dime. I should have been a Romney.

When you have a black person as a minority in the crowd it is an entirely different dynamic from what happens with a white person as the minority in the crowd. And don't ever tell me that black people can't be racist too. I was always blunt about it, generally because everyone else around me was as well.

I would argue access (generally from money) is what separates what people have and don't have. I think this is why we see unfortunate cycles in certain communities, regardless of color.

What Dez Bryant said a few weeks back about black culture being held back by a lack of accountability was spot on. Shortly thereafter, Stephen A Smith, the most annoying man in the world, came in to argue that he was just trying to please white people and we can't ignore the old and new world of Jim Crow. People who want to be held back will be. People who want to be victims will be. Go ahead, hold yourself back. White poor cycles exist too and are not few and far in between.

People always look to divide themselves. I've seen it at schools where it was black/white, rich/poor, catholic/protestant, and established/new. Which side of the tracks are you on? Always.

You can blame other people throughout your life or hold yourself accountable and accomplish something. I will never look at someone of any race and prejudge them on what they have or don't have and what they are or are not because of how they were born. I don't like the issue because people spend too much time dancing around what they think or trying to not offend people. The issue will never get better when it is all we can talk about. I would imply you are doing no one a favor trying to understand what they don't have because of their skin.
 
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NDPhilly

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I ran across the following article and did some seraching and didnt see a thread so i am starting this thread to have an honest discussion on racism as many times it is from one perspective and not from others. See this initial article.


Case of white 11-year-old charged with burning black boy stirs racial tension in Clarendon County, where history runs deep | News | postandcourier.com



Edit: I would like to impress upon all posters to refrain from low energy posts and judgmental posts as much as possible please. Lets keep this civil. We are all IE brothers.


So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.
 

wizards8507

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So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.
I guess the new theory is that it's the firefighters and the cops who are racist, not the white dad. But maybe the white dad too.
 

NDRock

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I do find some of the white privilege stuff interesting as I live in the southeast where many of the poorest people around are white. Seems like a lot of stuff that gets characterized as racist is more about class.

There never seems to be frank discussions about race, ethnic groups, etc... The fact is some consistently do better than others. Why is that? Why do Asians in this country make more money than white people in this country? Why do blacks make less? Is it all predestined at birth based on skin color?

I think a big issue is the lack of an intact family unit. I'm fairly progressive on many issues but there seems to be a strong correlation between a child's success and a stable, two parent family. No surprise that the divorce rate is higher in black households and lowest in Asian households. At a certain point, individuals/groups need to take responsibility for themselves and their own success.

At the end of the day, people are tribal and like to break up into groups. If we were all the same skin color, we would find other ways of "hating" each other.
 

johnnycando

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I watched "Get Out" last night.

Freaky movie.

Straight up in line with today's Racism.

BTW Bradley Whitford looks just Joe Maddon big time!
 
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ACamp1900

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About six months or so back I had a black professor tell me I didn't earn my degrees or anything else I have because I'm white and 'white privilege', just matter of factly in a normal conversation like that's just shit you drop on someone normally... this douche nozzle literally knows nothing about me at all aside from the color of my skin. Her playing that card makes her elightened and me a privledged SOB that needs to sit down and stfu. It's bullshit. I can also just about guarantee I come from a less privledged background than her and have had numerous opportunities denied me through the years due to nothing at all aside from my skin being pale. This dynamic does more harm than good imo as it prevents real discussions that could actually prove constructive in minority communities, instead, it's all 'racism'... and frankly it's a false dichotomy anyway as a lot of this privilege is tied to wealth, not nessecarily race. For a side: this professor teaches American History... I find that incredibly problematic.


Anyway, long to short, Im very troubled by numerous things in minority communities and have been vocal and active in trying to help... at least locally. Throwing those like me under the privilege bus on nothing other than skin color while decrying discrimination or racism is self defeating. I can speak for myself, it puts up walls in front of those who would otherwise be in the trenches.
 
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ACamp1900

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Forgive me, I saw Rocks post on privilege and it got me going... I can laugh off almost every political or social dynamic on IE, but that one always gets me... 'racism' has way more layers than just that tho, so moving along....
 
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Cackalacky

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So the white kid's stepfather possibly saves the black kid's life, then immediately goes to his mother explaining what happened and this is somehow racism. ok.

Last Monday a white Fordham student was assaulted and robbed a couple blocks off campus in the Bronx by three adult African American males. The student was taken by ambulance to the hospital. Some variation of this happens every couple weeks. Odd that this story isn't newsworthy but the one you posted is. Guess we'll never know why though.

I think you are missing the point. Its not about what the dad did or didnt do. Its not about what the police did or didnt do. Its that the mother is claiming racism on how the police handled the investigation. We wont ever know what was in the white kids heart or why he set a black kid on fire. But there are things in the story that dont add up. If you have an article by all means post it. Lets discuss. I didnt scour the nations headlines looking for something. This happened literally 35 miles away from my house.
 

NDdomer2

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IrishLax

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About six months or so back I had a black professor tell me I didn't earn my degrees or anything else I have because I'm white and 'white privledge', just matter of factly in a normal conversation like that's just shit you drop on someone normally... this douche nozzle literally knows nothing about me at all aside from the color of my skin. Her playing that card makes her elightened and me a privledged SOB that needs to sit down and stfu. It's bullshit. I can also just about guarantee I come from a less privledged background than her and have had numerous opportunities denied me through the years due to nothing at all aside from my skin being pale. This dynamic does more harm than good imo as it prevents real discussions that could actually prove constructive in minority communities, instead, it's all 'racism'... and frankly it's a false dichotomy anyway as a lot of this privledge is tied to wealth, not nessecarily race. For a side: this black professor teaches American History... I find that incredibly problematic.

Anyway, long to short, Im very troubled by numerous things in minority communities and have been vocal and active in trying to help... at least locally. Throwing those like me under the privledge bus on nothing other than skin color while decrying discrimination or racism is self defeating. I can speak for myself, it puts up walls in front of those who would otherwise be in the trenches.

Without a doubt, the weirdest thing about the "Twitter era" of race relations is that people who hate white people realized they can openly express bigotry and hatred towards white people with no consequence. They're literally espousing anti-white rhetoric and aggressively pushing for anti-whiteness under the guise of "inclusion." And moreover, you cannot express the slightest critique of such sentiment without being labeled a bigot/racist/whatever. Here is a perfect recent example where a company owned by a black woman enraged their mostly-black consumers by daring to put a white girl in an advertisement (alongside black people).

The internet and blogs and social media have effectively made race relations irreparable in this country because they emboldened anti-white racists to express their feelings which then leads to backlash and things like Trump. And they're taking that anti-whiteness into curriculum and housing to normalize division along racial lines. With respect to segregated housing put forth by public institutions (that rather obviously violates the letter of our federal law if you read it textually), the rationale used to justify it is to imply that white people are dangerous and the black people need to be protected from them.
 

drayer54

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Without a doubt, the weirdest thing about the "Twitter era" of race relations is that people who hate white people realized they can openly express bigotry and hatred towards white people with no consequence. They're literally espousing anti-white rhetoric and aggressively pushing for anti-whiteness under the guise of "inclusion." And moreover, you cannot express the slightest critique of such sentiment without being labeled a bigot/racist/whatever. Here is a perfect recent example where a company owned by a black woman enraged their mostly-black consumers by daring to put a white girl in an advertisement (alongside black people).

The internet and blogs and social media have effectively made race relations irreparable in this country because they emboldened anti-white racists to express their feelings which then leads to backlash and things like Trump. And they're taking that anti-whiteness into curriculum and housing to normalize division along racial lines. With respect to segregated housing put forth by public institutions (that rather obviously violates the letter of our federal law if you read it textually), the rationale used to justify it is to imply that white people are dangerous and the black people need to be protected from them.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shea Moisture centered white women in a black woman space and that is so hurtful. Yall not getting my coins. Them white women can have yall</p>— busan babe™ (@melaninbarbie) <a href="https://twitter.com/melaninbarbie/status/856586703108272128">April 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I blame Trump.
 

IrishLax

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Here's what I'll add to this thread and then basically bow out before it turns into a shit show...

-One of my first hands-on experiences with racism was when I was in HS and my dad was driving me somewhere in his Mercedes. My dad gets pulled over by a cop for "speeding". There's some back and forth and then the cop literally asks him "how he got this car" after registration and everything checks out. My dad gets a little irritated at that and the cop comes back with "the only beaners that drive a car like this are drug dealers" and asks my dad to step out of the vehicle and says he's going to search the car. I'm going to skip a lot of the story and just say it ends with my dad getting charged with "reckless driving" and then the case being immediately dismissed in court when the cop admits he didn't even radar the car for a speed reading.

-Institutional racism is very real. People legitimately should educate themselves it and not dismiss it. White privilege is also very real.

-Modern day racism is nowhere close the overt racism of the Jim Crow era and I hate when the two are conflated. The "New Jim Crow" i.e. mass incarceration is not the same as actual Jim Crow. The oppression is not the same, stop saying things like "modern day slavery" when it's nowhere close to actual-freaking-slavery. I dislike progress deniers and opportunists who have made an "activism" career out of racism. They only serve to profit by having people hate each other.

-I think Black Lives Matter has done more to hurt race relations in this country than any organization in my lifetime.

-It cracks me up how saying "colored people" was determined a long time ago to be offensive, so then modern day activists rebranded it "people of color" to ensure that they can unite all non-whites against whites. And ensure that everyone with tan skin can claim to be a victim.

-The most racist group of people I've ever met in my life are Asians. Last time I said this people got mad, so let me just quickly say that if you have a problem with that I don't care. Fuck off, it's my personal experience and I know it doesn't apply to everyone. They're the only people I've ever seen physically beat someone for dating a black guy. They're the only people who have ever told their daughter they couldn't date me because of skin color. They're the only group of people I've ever seen openly and regularly express disdain for other races in my presence like it's no big deal... and not just Asian vs black, or Asian vs white, I mean like Koreans telling me how "inferior" people from Vietnam are. But according to modern SJWs, they're all part of the big "people of color" tent so they can't be racist.
 

Old Man Mike

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Glimpses of trivial moments:

A). A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I was playing street ball in Ames Iowa and everyone else in the game was black. I was at the peak of my powers then, so I blew past the first two guys regularly. Then everyone else would converge to jump out of the sky to try to block my shot --- Racism? After a while, I began to fake a few moves in the air, but hand it off to teammates standing alone for layups. We held court all afternoon. A crowd of sorts collected. Murmurs in that crowd were "White Boy got some game." Racism?

B). Later at WMU when I still had some game, I'd be playing full court with otherwise all black players (my noontime recreation from teaching.) Some blacks (who weren't in the game) would occasionally run alongside me down the court yelling that I shouldn't be in the game. Racism?

C). One day we were in the early pick-em moments of a session (only eight there yet) when two guys walked in simultaneously to make ten. One was an old white math prof (who was actually pretty good) and the other was a 6'4" black guy who hadn't been there but once that I knew of. My "captain" (he "Got Game" in the other sense of that) wanted the black guy even though he'd never seen him and knew Jerry quite well. "My man looks like he's got some ball in him". (The time I'd seen this guy he was stoned and ruined his team.) Racism?

I mention these trivial examples because these "small matters" were common parts of real life. Does it take big things to be racist? Do small things make racism, or whatever the above things were, almost impossible to stay unemotional and open-minded ... about ANYTHING (as soon as we hear some sketchy commentary on something.)?

Probably none of this seems germane, but those experiences gave me an admittedly very small taste of what felt like unearned prejudice, and it was hard to be always in a love-and-peace ZEN world because of them.
 

NDRock

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I think you are missing the point. Its not about what the dad did or didnt do. Its not about what the police did or didnt do. Its that the mother is claiming racism on how the police handled the investigation. We wont ever know what was in the white kids heart or why he set a black kid on fire. But there are things in the story that dont add up. If you have an article by all means post it. Lets discuss. I didnt scour the nations headlines looking for something. This happened literally 35 miles away from my house.

I have no idea if the cops "bungled" the case because of racism. The mother thought the child should have been charged sooner when it took a month and two days. I don't work in law enforcement but it seems people often think the wheels of justice should move quicker than they actually do. Even if it was slower than it should have been it doesn't mean the reason was racism. Often times it is simply incompetence or some other factors.

Years ago, I bought an old POS car to drive back and forth to the river (kayak). It literally cost $250 and was junk. I was pulled over two times in that thing for no other reason than driving a POS. Once the cop asked me, "do you even have a job"? Now, if I was black I would swear the guy was racist and pulled me over because of my race. I think this type of thing happens often. People assume others are being racist when in fact they are just assholes or are bad at their jobs.

Of course there is still plenty of racism in this country.
 

Woneone

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Here's what I'll add to this thread and then basically bow out before it turns into a shit show...

-Institutional racism is very real. People legitimately should educate themselves it and not dismiss it. White privilege is also very real.

I have no doubt there are aspects of life that are representative of this. But, I default to Ben Shapiro. I get tired of hearing "Institutional Racism" as a cover for, well, anything. If you name the policy or institution that is racist, I'm more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder and fight that policy or institution with anyone. But that's never what happens. It's a faceless man that you never see or hear that holds everyone down.

It's like shouting FIRE in a room with fire fighters. The first few times, those fire fighters will ask where it is so they can put it out. But, instead of a location, you just say "Everywhere". Of course there is a fire somewhere, but unless you can give a location, it can't actually be fought. Eventually, when you shout fire, even though there is a room full of people wanting to help, they'll just tune you out.
 
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IrishLax

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I have no doubt there are aspects of life that are representative of this. But, I default to Ben Shapiro. I get tired of hearing "Institutional Racism" as a cover for, well, anything. If you name the policy or institution that is racist, I'm more than happy to stand shoulder to shoulder and fight that policy or institution with anyone. But that's never what happens. It's a faceless man that you never see or hear that holds everyone down.

It's like shouting FIRE in a room with fire fighters. The first few times, those fire fighters will ask where it is so they can put it out. But, instead of a location, you just say "Everywhere". Of course there is a fire somewhere, but unless you can give a location, it can't actually be fought. Eventually, when you shout fire, even though there is a room full of people wanting to help, they'll just tune you out.

I agree it shouldn't be a catchall boogeyman and that people handwaving at everything and crying racism is a problem.

I'm talking about things like black people having 12x the wrongful conviction rate for drug crimes, and people with "black" names having a substantially worse callback rate on their resumes. Those are concrete, legitimate things one can point to as still being a problem.
 

Domina Nostra

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Years ago, I bought an old POS car to drive back and forth to the river (kayak). It literally cost $250 and was junk. I was pulled over two times in that thing for no other reason than driving a POS. Once the cop asked me, "do you even have a job"? Now, if I was black I would swear the guy was racist and pulled me over because of my race. I think this type of thing happens often. People assume others are being racist when in fact they are just assholes or are bad at their jobs.

Of course there is still plenty of racism in this country.

Exactly. You can't judge the black race by the actions of individual black people, and you can't judge the white race by the actions of individual white people. Similarly, you can't judge every manifestation of a particular institution by how it acts in one place or another.

Why should anecdotes about racist cops tell you any more than anecdotes about street crime involving black people?
A crime committed by a young black man does not reveal the "truth" that all black people criminals. A racist comment by a white police officer in Boston doesn't reveal the "truth" that the Police department in Boston is a racist institution, and it certainly doesn't tell you about, say, Dallas police.

Just because racism exists in some places in some ways, you can't just generalize and insist that you know it exists everywhere in whatever way you think. That's just lazy thinking, and people get away with it because people are terrified about being labeled racist (they should be terrified of being racist, not for getting labeled racist unfairly).
 
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