QB situation

[ulukinatme]

Dan Mullen ain't leaving Florida for here. Not in this universe.

I think you’re right. There may have been a shot at him while he was at Mississippi State but UF trumps that for sure.

That was my thinking. I don't even know if Wittingham or Rhule would come here since they're roughly in the Top 25 salary wise, but Mullen is making some serious bank at Florida now and he's got a recruiting hotbed in his backyard. No reason to come to South Bend now for sure, not while Florida is highly ranked.

 

[Ndaccountant]

When I refer to an established, good coach I would say any of the big boys in P5 that aren't on the hot seat and are making good bank. If they're not in the hot seat, they're probably winning consistently enough to keep their fan bases happy, and if they're in the Top 15-30 in salary then they're not going to come to ND to make the same cash or less. So, that's why I say the next coach is going to be a relative unknown with recent success, likely someone at a Group of 5 program in the midst of a Cinderella run or a smaller P5 program enjoying similar success.

I'm not sure I get the Harbaugh connection. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm genuinely curious. To my knowledge he has no academic ties to ND, and he doesn't have any employment history either. How does his family situation come into play, especially if we don't play Michigan for another 14 years? [EDIT] Daughter at ND, I forgot. Maybe that's enough, who can say though.

I'll say this much for Matt Campbell: he's taken 3 star talent at ISU and done some great things. They haven't hit double digit wins or anything, but they've been competitive in every loss since his first season. No blowouts the last few years, and they've been competitive with all the big boys in the Big 12. That said, he's one of the favorites for the FSU job, I would expect he lands there instead.

As far as coaches flaming out and ended up at crummy jobs, that's kind of expected, right? The point I was going for is it's obviously harder to win at ND than it is an tOSU, Florida, or most other big programs. If you have the option to go to a football factory or ND, most coaches take the traditional football factory because there's a better chance you succeed. It's a better career move. When the margin for error at ND is smaller, it's just too risky when most good coaches have a path of less resistance available.

There was one coach that got fired and still found himself in promising positions at a few different stops: Kiffin. Going from the Raiders to UT was pretty decent, it was still considered a good job at that time. He left on his own accord to go to USC, and then after being fired he wound up as Saban's OC which is almost a lateral move these days when you consider Saban's lackeys all get HC jobs of their own after a year or two on his staff. The move to FAU is a bit head scratching, but I'm sure he thought he could use his newfound knowledge to parlay that into a better gig once again. For what it's worth, he's also expressed interest in the FSU job.

reps for the response.

FWIW, this is the latest coaches salary from USA today. Not the end all be all, but at least provides a decent measuring stick for public schools.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/

For guys like Campbell that are at "less than" P5 schools, the measuring stick needs to be whether or not they outperform the historic norm. Mullen at MSU for example. There are some guys on that list right now worth keeping an eye on. Campbell has been discussed, but guys like Mario Cristobal, Joe Moorehead, Scott Satterfield. I wouldn't get rid of Kelly for those guys yet, but they are worth watching over the next year or two.

FSU is going to need to show that they are not financially a mess. That was the hold up with Fisher and why he bolted. He saw the writing on the wall and FSU (at that point) was not going to fund the program in the same fashion as other blue blood programs. Not sure if that has changed or not, but I personally view FSU as a few notches below other top programs.

 

[JD Irish]

The bottom line is that we need better players, and we need them at almost every position, including QB. Brian Kelly has been great at identifying under-the-radar players and developing them into solid contributors. But solid contributors, 3-star players playing like 4-star players, don't win national championships. We need more of the top 50 players in the country. Many more. We need more Jaylon Smith, Manti Te'o, Michael Floyd, top-10, true can't-miss players. It will have taken 10 years, but we finally landed what looks like to be a truly top QB in Tyler Buchner in 2021. There are some other pieces that look great in that class as well. But with BK there have always been holes. Whether it's DB or LB this year, or DL, RB, QB, etc. in past years, no class has been complete. The top 5 players in our current class are great - but why has it taken so long? Why are we not recruiting a second elite RB? Our current group simply does not have the ability to be a championship-winning group. Chris Tyree might end up being special, but he is not going to be able to do it on his own. We needed him to complement Markese Stepp. Every class seems to start pretty strong, but then fade late.

I have no issue at all with the players that ND has brought in under Kelly. He has absolutely shown that he and his staff can get a lot out of the lower rated players. I also think that with better players, their preparation and gameday coaching will look much better. It is not about depth anymore. It is about getting the best players and developing them into being the top players in college football.

The only question is this: is the current staff capable, and willing, to do what it takes to sign the best players in the country at ND? If they do, I trust that they will be able to take care of the rest - but that is a big "if."

I really have no issue at all with not making the playoffs every year, and that isn't my expectation. I just want the staff to recognize that they have reached a plateau with their current program-building strategy, and that there is one solution to keep improving: more players with much higher ceilings than the current 85.

 

[Ndaccountant]

It had more to do with the fact we had NFL talent at QB (2nd round pick) RB (3rd round pick) and WR (1st round pick). Kelly has recruited very few top end skill players at ND. Honestly, other than those three (Kizer, Procise, and Fuller) have we had any skill players drafted in the top 3 rounds from a Kelly class? Pretty sad, as we're in year 10.

Eifert if you are considering him "skill", as he was not the typical TE.

2012 had talent with Eifert, Theo, and TJ Jones. Not nearly as prolific, but talent none the less. At the offense in total for 2012, was, well, good enough I guess considering the defense.

But...yea, pretty sad in the big picture.

 

[Nothingman]

Driskell has been slamming Book the past two weeks. He’s full on the PJ train.

I'm a big fan as well. I don't see what they have to do with Book though.

 

[NDRock]

Eifert if you are considering him "skill", as he was not the typical TE.

2012 had talent with Eifert, Theo, and TJ Jones. Not nearly as prolific, but talent none the less. At the offense in total for 2012, was, well, good enough I guess considering the defense.

But...yea, pretty sad in the big picture.

Also, forgot about Miles last year. So, in the Kelly era we have the following:

QB - Kizer (2nd)
RB - Procise (3rd)
WR - Fuller (1st), Boykin (3rd)

It's actually impressive how many games Kelly has won here without recruiting elite players (compared to other blue blood programs). I can't think of another coach who has "won more, with less". Of course I would prefer him to actually give a shit about recruiting elite players and win "more with more".

 

[Irish#1]

It's actually impressive how many games Kelly has won here without recruiting elite players (compared to other blue blood programs). I can't think of another coach who has "won more, with less". Of course I would prefer him to actually give a shit about recruiting elite players and win "more with more".

I think he does. We all know he's at a disadvantage to begin with.Then when you look at the elite players, the pool gets smaller. Once you remove the kids that either cannot qualify or they have no interest in the 40 year decision and are just focused on the NFL, the pool gets even smaller. Now you're going against Bama, Clemson and OSU all who have won championships recently and it gets even tougher.

 

[NDRock]

I think he does. We all know he's at a disadvantage to begin with.Then when you look at the elite players, the pool gets smaller. Once you remove the kids that either cannot qualify or they have no interest in the 40 year decision and are just focused on the NFL, the pool gets even smaller. Now you're going against Bama, Clemson and OSU all who have won championships recently and it gets even tougher.

Here's all I know. In the five years Weis was here, he signed 13 skill position players (QB, RB, WR) who were ranked in the top 100 by 247 composite. In Kelly's nine classes since, he has signed 9 and only two in the last four years. I would argue that Weis had the same disadvantages as Kelly and probably more so. Obviously Kelly is a much better coach but he is just not a very good recruiter.

 

[bert2834]

Here's all I know. In the five years Weis was here, he signed 13 skill position players (QB, RB, WR) who were ranked in the top 100 by 247 composite. In Kelly's nine classes since, he has signed 9 and only two in the last four years. I would argue that Weis had the same disadvantages as Kelly and probably more so. Obviously Kelly is a much better coach but he is just not a very good recruiter.

Yea, but how many of those were using Weis as a stepping stone to the NFL? Kelly doesn't have the NFL pedigree that Weis had. Or the connections.

 

[hungryhippo]

Here's all I know. In the five years Weis was here, he signed 13 skill position players (QB, RB, WR) who were ranked in the top 100 by 247 composite. In Kelly's nine classes since, he has signed 9 and only two in the last four years. I would argue that Weis had the same disadvantages as Kelly and probably more so. Obviously Kelly is a much better coach but he is just not a very good recruiter.

I feel like Weis could always reel in the top end skill player talent on offense, but his misses always left us paper thin. Maybe he would've learned over time about the importance of not missing and actively recruiting plan B's throughout the process.

I don't think Kelly's great at this but I do see significant improvement from his early years (couldn't hit live OL in bowl practice before the Bama rout). It still happens (CB into next year, RB this year, which is much a function of McIntosh and Holmes getting booted as misses).

He may be overly cautious about fit after having flameouts like Lynch and Davonte Neal, because a 5-star that can't stay on the team is as good as a whiff in recruiting.

I think we're seeing the best recruiting efforts of Kelly's era now in the 20/21 classes where he's pulling the high-4 and 5 stars and still being intentional about not having misses of scrambing for Plan C/D players.

Overall, while recruiting still has holes, my issues with Kelly are more about what happens with the guys once they get here than how he goes about getting them to campus.

 

[NDRock]

Yea, but how many of those were using Weis as a stepping stone to the NFL? Kelly doesn't have the NFL pedigree that Weis had. Or the connections.

Welcome to big time football. Always an excuse.

 

[NDRock]

I feel like Weis could always reel in the top end skill player talent on offense, but his misses always left us paper thin. Maybe he would've learned over time about the importance of not missing and actively recruiting plan B's throughout the process.

I don't think Kelly's great at this but I do see significant improvement from his early years (couldn't hit live OL in bowl practice before the Bama rout). It still happens (CB into next year, RB this year, which is much a function of McIntosh and Holmes getting booted as misses).

He may be overly cautious about fit after having flameouts like Lynch and Davonte Neal, because a 5-star that can't stay on the team is as good as a whiff in recruiting.

I think we're seeing the best recruiting efforts of Kelly's era now in the 20/21 classes where he's pulling the high-4 and 5 stars and still being intentional about not having misses of scrambing for Plan C/D players.

Overall, while recruiting still has holes, my issues with Kelly are more about what happens with the guys once they get here than how he goes about getting them to campus.

If the goal of ND football is to win a NC then you have to recruit to that level. Kelly has not, simple as that. If you think it's too hard to recruit better at ND, that's fine, just don't expect any championships. Last year is as good as it will get. Personally, I don't think that's the goal of the University. It's their choice, not mine. So I'm fine with keeping Kelly, I just don't expect us to be elite.

 

[Irish#1]

Here's all I know. In the five years Weis was here, he signed 13 skill position players (QB, RB, WR) who were ranked in the top 100 by 247 composite. In Kelly's nine classes since, he has signed 9 and only two in the last four years. I would argue that Weis had the same disadvantages as Kelly and probably more so. Obviously Kelly is a much better coach but he is just not a very good recruiter.

Yea, but how many of those were using Weis as a stepping stone to the NFL? Kelly doesn't have the NFL pedigree that Weis had. Or the connections.

You know Charlie's SB rings sold a lot of kids on ND.

 

[NDRock]

You know Charlie's SB rings sold a lot of kids on ND.

Correct. Charlie also worked like hell in recruiting. I’ve never seen anyone who follows/reports on ND that says Kelly is a great recruiter or puts a lot of work in.

 

[stlnd01]

You know Charlie's SB rings sold a lot of kids on ND.

That and his coaching acumen when it came to QBs and WRs. Weis brought in the skill-position stars. I'll give him that.

But I'd note that it was his lowest-rated recruiting class - his last one in 2009 that ranked 15th on 247 - that formed the backbone of the best-performing team (2012), for Brian Kelly.
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2009-Football/Commits/

Also, holy hell was 2005 bad. Like two of these guys turned into decent players.
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2005-Football/Commits/

 

[Wingman Ray]

If the goal of ND football is to win a NC then you have to recruit to that level. Kelly has not, simple as that. If you think it's too hard to recruit better at ND, that's fine, just don't expect any championships. Last year is as good as it will get. Personally, I don't think that's the goal of the University. It's their choice, not mine. So I'm fine with keeping Kelly, I just don't expect us to be elite.

100% this.

Add to when you get your players, you have to develop them. BK has failed miserably at this.

 

[NDRock]

That and his coaching acumen when it came to QBs and WRs. Weis brought in the skill-position stars. I'll give him that.

But I'd note that it was his lowest-rated recruiting class - his last one in 2009 that ranked 15th on 247 - that formed the backbone of the best-performing team (2012), for Brian Kelly.
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2009-Football/Commits/

Also, holy hell was 2005 bad. Like two of these guys turned into decent players.
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Season/2005-Football/Commits/

The 2004 and 2005 classes got Ty fired as much as his record. Brutal.

 

[pumpdog20]

Did Book really hush his own crowd? If so, that's really disappointing. The entire team seems to be semi-rebelling against it's own fanbase based off of comments in interviews. They better tred lightly.

 

[BabyIrish]

The 2004 and 2005 classes got Ty fired as much as his record. Brutal.

Who is DJ Hord and how have we never heard of him

 

[stlnd01]

Who is DJ Hord and how have we never heard of him

I vaguely recall DJ Hord as a backup WR who never played. Players 2 through 6 on that list I have no recollection of ever.

 

[Irishize]

Did Book really hush his own crowd? If so, that's really disappointing. The entire team seems to be semi-rebelling against it's own fanbase based off of comments in interviews. They better tred lightly.

Sampson was really amazed at this. But look at the context...the kid just scored a GW TD after a stressful week & a stressful day where they failed in the RZ 3 times & likely heard boos from the crowd. Don’t forget, fans on this board who were at the game said VT fans were louder than ND at times. Maybe he was hushing them? Or it was just a knee-jerk shush to shut all the haters up and reinforce the teams foxhole mentality.

Whatever the reason, will he just be tired of the shit that goes w/ being QB @ ND and grad transfer or will he come back reinvigorated that he’s the man & PJ transfers? One of those two won’t be here next year.

 

[ab2cmiller]

OK, I went back to where he supposedly hushed the crowd after his score. At full speed he makes a quick move with his finger towards his facemask. It does look kind of like him hushing the crowd. Played back in slow-mo. He's grabbing his mouth guard. Unless there is a different spot that he supposedly hushed the crowd, this is all about nothing.

 

[ThePiombino]

Did Book really hush his own crowd? If so, that's really disappointing. The entire team seems to be semi-rebelling against it's own fanbase based off of comments in interviews. They better tred lightly.

I doubt he was "hushing" the entire fanbase. It was likely more a message to the haters. Granted, the "hate" is warranted based on the product on the field. But at the same time, the haters also open themselves up to this by not supporting the team. You can disagree with the coaching decisions and player performance, but if you're booing (and there was plenty of booing on Saturday), then you open yourself up to something like this from the players. I'm among those who believe it's time to move on from Book, but that said -- I don't blame him.

 

[greyhammer90]

He could literally have meant the hush to be to tell anyone from VA Tech's defensive players to Kirk Herbstreit to hush. There's no way to know what that was about, so it's silly to try and construe it. It's doubly silly to do what Sampson did and state the intention as if it was a fact.

 

[ThePiombino]

OK, I went back to where he supposedly hushed the crowd after his score. At full speed he makes a quick move with his finger towards his facemask. It does look kind of like him hushing the crowd. Played back in slow-mo. He's grabbing his mouth guard. Unless there is a different spot that he supposedly hushed the crowd, this is all about nothing.

100% it was hush. I present you with exhibit A:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr">🤫 <a href="https://t.co/DMcrKwRL00">pic.twitter.com/DMcrKwRL00</a></p>— Ian Book (@Ian_Book12) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ian_Book12/status/1191141966479802368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 3, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ab2cmiller]

ok

 

[Irishize]

OK, I went back to where he supposedly hushed the crowd after his score. At full speed he makes a quick move with his finger towards his facemask. It does look kind of like him hushing the crowd. Played back in slow-mo. He's grabbing his mouth guard. Unless there is a different spot that he supposedly hushed the crowd, this is all about nothing.

Dumb question: how do you upload a pic on this thread if it’s not based on a website? I hit the pic button above but it asks for a http:

 

[ulukinatme]

There's no hush at all, he's grabbing his mouth piece and taking it out. Seriously much ado about nothing, 11:00 mark:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K0ZDXoz5i-o?start=660" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've watched from TD till he gets to the sideline, I see no other moment than this when he reaches to his mouth.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[ab2cmiller]

There's no hush at all, he's grabbing his mouth piece and taking it out. Seriously much ado about nothing, 11:00 mark:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K0ZDXoz5i-o?start=660" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I've watched from TD till he gets to the sideline, I see no other moment than this when he reaches to his mouth.

He must have done it right when he got towards the corner of the stands. I assumed he was putting up his hand to slap fans hands, but it's kind of hidden. Later he does slap hands fans.