QB situation

[WilliamWallace]

Eeehhhh. Up until Jalen Hurts, Saban had game managers at QB. Guys who wouldn’t cost his superior talented teams costly turnovers.


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Yes, and also make good decisions at the line, and in the pocket. I’d bet all my vbucks for the rest of this forums life we’d be undefeated right now with a coach of his caliber. It’s about playing to your strengths, and opponents weaknesses. It’s a lot of work I’m sure, but the end result is undeniable. Book might be a heisman front runner right now.

 

[Irishize]

So as I peruse this thread I look up and watch Navy’s QB (Malcolm Perry) throw a post for a TD. We are officially in bizarro world.

 

[stlnd01]

Eeehhhh. Up until Jalen Hurts, Saban had game managers at QB. Guys who wouldn’t cost his superior talented teams costly turnovers.


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Well, Book is a game manager who generally doesn't make costly turnovers. He also doesn't see open receivers and bails at the slightest pressure.

 

[irishtrain]

Book moves around so he doesn't get the ^@#$ beat out of him at times-Jurkovich will never be an impact QB at Notre Dame-I was at the spring game -my eyes told me the qualities are not there. It was raining buckets at mich and people were hanging all over him-they need a running game and the players to run the ball are not there this year. Run the ball well and Book looks like a million bucks-don't run the ball well and nobody can save your &@$. Ian Book is not the problem.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Book moves around so he doesn't get the ^@#$ beat out of him at times-Jurkovich will never be an impact QB at Notre Dame-I was at the spring game -my eyes told me the qualities are not there. It was raining buckets at mich and people were hanging all over him-they need a running game and the players to run the ball are not there this year. Run the ball well and Book looks like a million bucks-don't run the ball well and nobody can save your &@$. Ian Book is not the problem.

It's hard to run the ball when the LBs dont respect the middle of the field, the safeties are less than 10 yds from the LOS, and the corners press the WRs. These are all due to an ineffective QB.

 

[ThePiombino]

Book moves around so he doesn't get the ^@#$ beat out of him at times-Jurkovich will never be an impact QB at Notre Dame-I was at the spring game -my eyes told me the qualities are not there. It was raining buckets at mich and people were hanging all over him-they need a running game and the players to run the ball are not there this year. Run the ball well and Book looks like a million bucks-don't run the ball well and nobody can save your &@$. Ian Book is not the problem.

Run game has ZERO to do with Book's inability (refusal?) to test the middle of the field, or really anything intermediate and beyond. If anything, it's Book's limitations that are hindering the running game.

 

[stlnd01]

Run game has ZERO to do with Book's inability (refusal?) to test the middle of the field, or really anything intermediate and beyond. If anything, it's Book's limitations that are hindering the running game.

Bingo.

 

[IrishLax]

Run game has ZERO to do with Book's inability (refusal?) to test the middle of the field, or really anything intermediate and beyond. If anything, it's Book's limitations that are hindering the running game.

Yup. The main reason I want Jurkovec, even if he's "bad" or whatever PR the program is putting out there behind the scenes, is because he's actually willing to let it fly and he's also tall and could try to throw passes to the middle of the field.

There are three sections of the field, and three depths within them (short, medium, long). We only regularly attacks 4 out of the 9. Makes ND is easy to defend.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I’m also all in for Jurkovec, not because I don’t like Book, but because this season is a scratch. Yes, we can still win 10 regular season games, and that’s really good, but the ultimate prize is gone. Let’s get PJ the supposed experience he’s lacking. I hadn’t really thought about it, but many have posted that Book isn’t seeing the field. Maybe that’s his problem, he can’t stand in the pocket because he literally can’t see over the line? Not sure what changed from last season, but I’ll go with that. Unleash the gunslinger!

 

[Irishize]

Yup. The main reason I want Jurkovec, even if he's "bad" or whatever PR the program is putting out there behind the scenes, is because he's actually willing to let it fly and he's also tall and could try to throw passes to the middle of the field.

There are three sections of the field, and three depths within them (short, medium, long). We only regularly attacks 4 out of the 9. Makes ND is easy to defend.

Here’s my two cents: I’ve heard/read that it’s not fair to the seniors to sacrifice the rest of this season to get Phil reps so they’ll be better suited to transition into 2020. You know the old line, “the seniors have a ton to play for...for some it’s their last year of football”. I get it & I’ll give them one more week (this week vs VT) to show they really do want to make their senior season a success. But they didn’t show that passion & pride at Ann Arbor, so if they lay another egg today all bets are off & they’ll be hard pressed to silence the critics who are ready to turn the page. For the record, they still haven’t put together four solid quarter of football.

 

[Irishman77]

Reese turned book into Reese. It’s that easy. Fix the problems , not the symptoms

 

[greyhammer90]

Reese turned book into Reese. It’s that easy. Fix the problems , not the symptoms

No he didn't. Rees was a game manager who made play reads and protection shifts at the line, would throw ints like crazy because he didn't have the physical tools to throw a man open, and made a living off his third read. Book is a QB who mentally struggles, has trouble pulling the trigger because he's afraid of turning the ball over, and relies on his feet too much when he his initial read isn't wide open. They couldn't be more different except that they've both won a lot of games while being just ok.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I’m also all in for Jurkovec, not because I don’t like Book, but because this season is a scratch. Yes, we can still win 10 regular season games, and that’s really good, but the ultimate prize is gone. Let’s get PJ the supposed experience he’s lacking. I hadn’t really thought about it, but many have posted that Book isn’t seeing the field. Maybe that’s his problem, he can’t stand in the pocket because he literally can’t see over the line? Not sure what changed from last season, but I’ll go with that. Unleash the gunslinger!

Idk if I agree with that, there's plenty of guys in Book's height range that have had huge success throwing the ball from the pocket. The last 2 Heisman winners and #1 draft selections were little dudes, it's more about going thru progressions and not staring at your primary read on any given play. When he (Book) stares down that primary read, the oline, LB, DB, whoever can just wait for him to go into his throwing motion and then jump to knock the ball down, they've been watching him stare the guy down the whole play. Unfortunately, it's beyond him to look-off the defenders and then make the throw last second to another receiver, it's a byproduct of being horrible in your presnap reads and an inability to go thru his progressions. He ain't it.

 

[Bluto]

I think one of the fundamental problems is that BK and all of his OC’s/QB recruiters seem to suck at identifying high school talent or just talent in general that will translate to good QB play at the college level.

The most telling data point would be the number of ND QB’s that transferred to other schools and failed to do much at those places.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I think one of the fundamental problems is that BK and all of his OC’s/QB recruiters seem to suck at identifying high school talent or just talent in general that will translate to good QB play at the college level.

The most telling data point would be the number of ND QB’s that transferred to other schools and failed to do much at those places.

Well, if that's the case then everyone missed, not just BK and Co. 247, Rivals, ESPN, whoever identified them as a high school talent.

 

[Bluto]

Well, if that's the case then everyone missed, not just BK and Co. 247, Rivals, ESPN, whoever identified them as a high school talent.

QB is the hardest position to evaluate when you move from high school to college, college to pro ect....and yes those services miss all the time. Unfortunately, BK and his staff seem to have missed on just about every QB they’ve brought in to date.

 

[Irishman77]

No he didn't. Rees was a game manager who made play reads and protection shifts at the line, would throw ints like crazy because he didn't have the physical tools to throw a man open, and made a living off his third read. Book is a QB who mentally struggles, has trouble pulling the trigger because he's afraid of turning the ball over, and relies on his feet too much when he his initial read isn't wide open. They couldn't be more different except that they've both won a lot of games while being just ok.

I agree with all that. I was just referring to your last sentence

 

[Riddickulous]

QB is the hardest position to evaluate when you move from high school to college, college to pro ect....and yes those services miss all the time. Unfortunately, BK and his staff seem to have missed on just about every QB they’ve brought in to date.

You're saying we just happened to land an overrated dud every time we got a highly rated QB prospect? I don't buy it.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

QB is the hardest position to evaluate when you move from high school to college, college to pro ect....and yes those services miss all the time. Unfortunately, BK and his staff seem to have missed on just about every QB they’ve brought in to date.

I'm not sure where the blame lies anymore? It's hard to imagine that BK and EVERY recruiting service missed on every QB they've brought in. I think it's gotta be, at least partially, attributed to the coaching staff's inability to develop the guys, or their inability to call plays, and develop gameplans, that suit the individual player...or a combo of both. But again, I'm stumped. If Phil fails, and Pyne fails, and they can't get anything out of Buchner then we're just cursed.

 

[Bluto]

You're saying we just happened to land an overrated dud every time we got a highly rated QB prospect? I don't buy it.

Outside of Kizer it sure seems that way. Again everyone of the highly rated QB’s that transferred fell flat on their face at the new school.

Hendrix - USC 2013 - transfer - dud

Golson - academic and turnover issues - transfer - dud

Kiel - personal issues - transfer - dud

Zaire - injury - team cohesion issues - transfer - dud

Kizer - 3rd stringer until above transfer and or get injured - best of the bunch

Wimbush - accuracy issues - benched - transfer - dud

Book - pocket presence issues - trending toward dud

Davis - plays cornerback, receiver and running back

 

[ND88]

BK might suck at identifying and developing next level QBs, but he does a pretty good job of getting average talent to play better than they probably should. Book hasn’t played great in most of his big games, but he’s mostly been solid in those in-between games and of course, against lesser teams (not named Michigan). This was his first at-play against Michigan. My guess is that BK favors QBs who are gym rats and football-film nerds that bust their ass over more naturally athletic and harder-to-reign in options. I wonder how Kelly would coach a Deshaun Watson type.

 

[EddytoNow]

Outside of Kizer it sure seems that way. Again everyone of the highly rated QB’s that transferred fell flat on their face at the new school.

Hendrix - USC 2013 - transfer - dud

Golson - academic and turnover issues - transfer - dud

Kiel - personal issues - transfer - dud

Zaire - injury - team cohesion issues - transfer - dud

Kizer - 3rd stringer until above transfer and or get injured - best of the bunch

Wimbush - accuracy issues - benched - transfer - dud

Book - pocket presence issues - trending toward dud

Davis - plays cornerback, receiver and running back

The question is "Why were they all duds?" Were they over-rated because of a lack of talent/athleticism (poor recruiting)? Were they under-developed once they got to ND (poor coaching)? Or were they forced into a system that didn't match their skill set (poor coaching)?

 

[ND88]

Outside of Kizer it sure seems that way. Again everyone of the highly rated QB’s that transferred fell flat on their face at the new school.

Hendrix - USC 2013 - transfer - dud

Golson - academic and turnover issues - transfer - dud

Kiel - personal issues - transfer - dud

Zaire - injury - team cohesion issues - transfer - dud

Kizer - 3rd stringer until above transfer and or get injured - best of the bunch

Wimbush - accuracy issues - benched - transfer - dud

Book - pocket presence issues - trending toward dud

Davis - plays cornerback, receiver and running back

Barnett - Dud #1

 

[greyhammer90]

You're saying we just happened to land an overrated dud every time we got a highly rated QB prospect? I don't buy it.

I think the real issue is that our "highly rated QBs" usually aren't that highly rated.

Keil - .98
Wimbush - .97
PJ - .95
Zaire - .93 - Injured
Kizer - .90
Golson - .89
Rees - .87
Book - .86

Sort of an interesting look when you see it from this angle. We basically have had 2 QBs rated in the "elite" range, Wimbush and Keil. Those appear to have been busts, with both of them confirmed mediocre because they couldn't play at an elite level at other programs either. PJ and Zaire are in the "solid four star" range, and everyone else in the closer to 3 star or 3 star range. We have been unfortunate to have landed two busts in the high 90s, and we should do better at identifying talent, but also really we just need to recruit better at the position in a conventional sense period.

 

[Bluto]

The question is "Why were they all duds?" Were they over-rated because of a lack of talent/athleticism (poor recruiting)? Were they under-developed once they got to ND (poor coaching)? Or were they forced into a system that didn't match their skill set (poor coaching)?

Probably a combination of all the above. It does seem to point to the fact that BK and his staff members over the years stink at bringing in QBs that are capable of doing what they want irregardless of what the offensive scheme and or who the coordinator is.

 

[EddytoNow]

Outside of Kizer it sure seems that way. Again everyone of the highly rated QB’s that transferred fell flat on their face at the new school.

Hendrix - USC 2013 - transfer - dud

Golson - academic and turnover issues - transfer - dud

Kiel - personal issues - transfer - dud

Zaire - injury - team cohesion issues - transfer - dud

Kizer - 3rd stringer until above transfer and or get injured - best of the bunch

Wimbush - accuracy issues - benched - transfer - dud

Book - pocket presence issues - trending toward dud

Davis - plays cornerback, receiver and running back

The question is "Why were they all duds?" Were they over-rated because of a lack of talent/athleticism (poor recruiting)? Were they under-developed once they got to ND (poor coaching)? Or were they forced into a system that didn't match their skill set (poor coaching)?

 

[BeatSC]

Can I just say Book sucks and end the discussion ? He doesn’t have the balls to make the throws.

 

[Riddickulous]

Can I just say Book sucks and end the discussion ? He doesn’t have the balls to make the throws.

I thought he got off to a decent start today but it derailed pretty fast.

Starting to think Phil Jurkovec just isn't good. Kelly has had no problem pulling established starters in the past, so why not now? I'm struggling to think of another explanation.

 

[BeatSC]

This is like Michigan all over again except VT sucks. Really pathetic execution all around.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I thought he got off to a decent start today but it derailed pretty fast.

Starting to think Phil Jurkovec just isn't good. Kelly has had no problem pulling established starters in the past, so why not now? I'm struggling to think of another explanation.

Zaire and Kizer
Rees and Golson
Crist vs USF
Pulling the trigger to late on a QB swap is basically Kelly’s favorite thing to do.