PSU hires O'Brien
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Mr. McGibblets
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who?
Rhode Irish
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SportsCenter discussing O'Brien hire listed Ronald Darby as a Penn State de-commit. Um what?
nlroma1o
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I'm with you on that one bro. When i was in college i think espn was on my tv 24/7. I dont really watch TV anymore now, but if i did, i would never leave espn on. They are complete rubbish!!!
cwatching espn the past few days has really showed me how out of touch with sports they really are.
Tells you everything.
WOW that Hoke is one hell of a coach!
First he teaches Robinson how to complete long passes be bouncing them off the defender's hands and then he wins TWO BCS games in the same week!
If he isn't the coach of the year there should be an investigation!
autry_denson
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nice hire by psu - i like o'brien a lot, he's smart as hell and I thought he did a fantastic job with the pats' offense. those recent outbursts on the sidelines that have made the news were a sneak peek at what you'll see on the sidelines in happy valley - he's intense, and doesn't care who's feelings he hurts. if penn state recovers they are going to have to do it with a bunch of tough kids who don't need to be coddled.
woolybug25
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Give me a break. I bet you think McDaniels was an offensive genius too? The Pats offense hasn't changed since Charlie. They are one of the most mature offenses in the NFL. O'Brien had little to do with it. In fact, Brady calls a lot of the plays (which is where the argument with O'Brien stemmed). Brady sees Charlie as father figure, see's McDaniels as a mentor, but screams at O'Brien on the sidelines? What does that tell you?
I will bet you a million vbucks that a no-name offensive coordinator will step in next year and have the same results as O'Brien did. Just like O'Brien did, just like McDaniels did.
Hiring Pat's offensive coordinators as head coaches doesn't exactly have the best track record.
McDaniels and Brady had their share of spats. O'Brien was a huge part of the offense. As for saying the Pat's offense hasn't changed since Charlie, I'm not sure if you're serious.
Weiss, McDaniels and O'Brien had three very easily differentiable offenses. Sure they were linked, but to pretend the offense is the same now as under Charlie is a joke.
All in all, its a good hire. You get a relatively young guy with some passion and coaching ability. Nobody big was going to touch Penn State with a ten foot pole at this point. If O'Brien pans out, great. If not, you've put a few years in between the scandal and then and can find a bigger name.
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autry_denson
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You exposed yourself there. You haven't been watching the Patriots if you think their offense hasn't changed - it has changed dramatically over time. The only constant is how well they adapt to new personnel and new strengths.
Regardless, I said O'Brien did a fantastic job with the offense from what I can tell, not that he was responsible for their offensive success. I think Brady gets most of the credit, Belichick gets lots of credit, and over the last couple of years O'Brien should get a good deal of credit as well.
That said, you're right that N.E. coordinators don't have a track record. And I may be way off on my assessment - the full disclosure is that I'm a bit biased b/c he's an alum of my brother's high school and he's an alum of my college, so I have followed his career closely and feel I have a good sense of what kind of coach he is. But I may be blinded by these connections - we'll see how he does in Happy Valley, I'm no fan of PSU but I wish him well there.
woolybug25
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They still run the same pass-happy spread em out offense. If anything, O'Brien brought them closer to Charlie's original offense that was predicated on smaller, shiftier receivers. I didn't expose anything, prove me wrong.
O'Brien managed an offense that has been clicking on its own for years. The only real changes in philosophy on that team come from Belichek. As I said before, Brady has a GREAT relationship with his former coordinators and would have never screamed in any of their faces on the sidelines.
If he cant get along with one of the most tenured and mature QB's in all of the NFL, I have a hard time believing that he is going to be able to relate to 18 year old kids.
They picked this dude over Clements. Seriously, take a look at both of their track records and sell me on O'Brien. This is a terrible hire from an administration that has done nothing but destroy their football program with terrible decision making over the last couple years.
O'Brien managed an offense that has been clicking on its own for years. The only real changes in philosophy on that team come from Belichek. As I said before, Brady has a GREAT relationship with his former coordinators and would have never screamed in any of their faces on the sidelines.
If he cant get along with one of the most tenured and mature QB's in all of the NFL, I have a hard time believing that he is going to be able to relate to 18 year old kids.
They picked this dude over Clements. Seriously, take a look at both of their track records and sell me on O'Brien. This is a terrible hire from an administration that has done nothing but destroy their football program with terrible decision making over the last couple years.
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Now I hope the Pats make it to the Super Bowl so he can't hit campus or really recruit through signing day.
autry_denson
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Doesn't seem worth it to try to make a case that the Patriots offense has changed - there are no statistics that would quantify this effectively and you could easily change your definition of what 'change' means to fit your perspective. It also doesn't seem like you are open to reconsidering your point - consider that immediately after you posted two of us responded to your claim in shock. Anchorman wondered whether you were serious, and at the same time I responded with the same disbelief. If two people immediately responded to a claim I made in that way, I might think for a minute about whether I could be wrong or whether I was in a position to make the claim. Calling on us to 'prove it', as if that is possible, is a copout.
Brady has a great relationship with O'Brien as well.
Brady and O'Brien are both very fiery guys. Their spat was 1/10 of what you saw out of Kelly, and in O'Brien's case he's chewing out a multimillion dollar professional, not a college kid. I'd be far more worried if I had a coach who didn't have the balls to hold a player accountable. THey are also great friends.
As for the offense being the same, that's a joke.
The offense under Weis always had a very balanced attack, and the passing game was anything but explosive. It was based on running the rock with Smith, Faulk and Dillon and letting that open up the pass game, which was screen heavy.
Under McDaniels, you saw the offense become much more explosive and downfield, with Moss and Caldwell. The first few years saw a running game continue with Dillon spelled by Maroney, but it diminished as Maroney simply wasn't a star.
Under O'Brien, you've seen far more TE action than ever before, a return to running, albeit by committee, and Welker being put out more rather than strictly a slot threat.
Under Weiss, a TE never went more than 400 yards. This year Hernandez went for 900 and Gronk for 1300.
woolybug25
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I think you cant prove me wrong because I am right. The same offensive formations, the same pass happy offense, the same heavy utilization of the TE. He has been in the organization since 2007 and learned how to be an offensive coordinator under its system. I haven't changed my tune on bit, so I dont know where you are getting that from.
Brady has a good relationship with O'Brien? What evidence do you have of that? Last time I checked, the only public comments Brady has ever made about O'Brien was to say that he just got a little heated on the sidelines and that his screaming in the face of O'Brien wasn't that big of a deal. As I said before, do you really think Brady would have done that to Weis or McDaniels?
woolybug25
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They have tweeked for personell, but have remained in the same system. Weis utilized the tight end a ton when he had a talented one at Notre Dame. Weis had a better RB when he was at NE, McDaniels had better recievers, and O'Brien had better TE's. That's where the change comes from.
Don't get it twisted. O'Brien didn't "chew out" Brady. Brady chewed out O'Brien.
Again, go look at Clements resume and put it up against O'Brien's and give me your argument for O'Brien. Terrible hire.
woolybug25
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Bullshit. Going from a TE who has never topped 640 (my bad, missed a year of Watson) to two who combine for 2200 isn't a tweak for personnel. Pushing Welker out isn't a tweak on personnel, its a new role for him
If you want to say they 'tweaked' for personnel, no ****. Every offense does that. Those tweaks amount to a different offense.
As for Clements, that comes down to Penn State preference. Obviously both have worked with tremendously potent offenses. Maybe they wanted someone with more and more recent college experience. Maybe they liked O'Brien's personality more. Maybe they didn't have the Irish-tinted glasses we both have. As for bigger name, they're comparable.
As for Brady chewing out O'Brien, take a look at the tape. Brady made a crap throw. On the bench, Brady gets angry at Underwood. O'Brien steps in, and as everyone who has commented on the incident has said, made Brady accountable.
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autry_denson
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from 3 days ago:
Brady commented on the possibility that offensive coordinator Billy O'Brien may leave New England for a job elsewhere next season.
"I haven't thought about it,” Brady said. “I really don't know what the situation is with Billy. He's been a great coach and a friend of mine so I don't think anyone really knows what's going to happen. I hope he's here for a long time, but everyone gets different opportunities. No one really knows how those opportunities, what will really pan out."
NYIrish14
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I think they would have been better off hiring someone who has head coaching experience. Instead, they hire a guy who has no head coaching experience and expect him to turn around one of the most prestigious college football programs in the country. I don't think this will work out too well. Hope it does though...ehh kinda.
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autry_denson
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need more? from the day after the exchange on the sidelines:
"He and I have a great relationship. I love that he feels that he can coach me. I think that's something as a veteran player, you maybe don't get a lot from coaches. Because you're a veteran, you think 'Man, I can't be yelled out.' But yeah, you can. And you should. We're all held accountable. I'm glad our defense really made the play to win the game at the end, because I would have been feeling pretty crappy if we would have somehow not pulled that game out with that interception there at the end."
wooly i respect your opinion that this is a bad hire but your points in making your argument are just way off. it is pretty clear that you haven't been following the patriots closely.
woolybug25
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So you were not only wrong on Weis's TE's in the pros, but conveniently leave out that he coached two of the best TE's in Notre Dame history. He had no problem utilizing the position at Notre Dame and when Watson was available at NE, he used it then too.
tweeks do not equal different offenses. All of the schemes since Weis have been the same scheme, just different personnel looks. Has Kelly's scheme changed at Notre Dame? It looks so, but it is still the same concepts and groupings.
He didn't make Brady do sh!t. When he came over to Brady, he got lit into by him. Then Brady continued to play with zero repercussions. O'Brien didn't put Brady in his place, Brady put O'Brien into his.
woolybug25
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Is this quote suppose to somehow change the fact that Brady screamed into his face on the sidelines? What exactly would you expect the top QB in the league to publicly say about a member of his coaching staff?
Actions speak louder than words.
I was wrong about Weis' TE's in the pros? I missed 200 yards. My bad. Still less than a third of the TE production here. And that Watson season was years after Charlie left. A TE under Charlie in NE never topped 4 and change. McDaniel's/Belichick's TEs hit 6 once. O'Brien's have hit 1000 last then 2200 this year. Charlie worked in TEs far more at ND than at NE. If your main point is that Belichick is still the HC, then you miss the point. The offense is very, very different today than it was almost a decade ago.
As for the Brady spat, again, look at the tape.
Brady is talking to Underwood.
O'Brien turns around and lights into Brady.
Obviously Brady continued to play. Benching a guy isn't the only way to coach.
By your "actions speak louder than words" standards, BK thinks TJ Jones, Dayne and Tommy should all be shot repeatedly until dead, then shot again. There's a difference between in-game tensions between two very fiery guys at a key point in the game after a turnover, and true animosity.
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tussin
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Right because Brady was just going to sit there with no response while he gets yelled at.... Tom Brady is one of the best QBs in NFL history, you think he would just take criticism like some kid on the JV team?
Regardless of that, how in the world is some little spat on the sideline of an NFL game any indication that O'Brien is a good/bad hire at PSU?
autry_denson
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wait a second, a minute ago you asked for evidence of their relationship and you suggested very clearly that public comments were the basis for your claims that they do not have a good relationship. Here's what you wrote: "What evidence do you have of that? Last time I checked, the only public comments Brady has ever made about O'Brien was to say that he just got a little heated on the sidelines and that his screaming in the face of O'Brien wasn't that big of a deal."
this suggests that public comments might serve as evidence of their relationship. and then when i bring you the public comments you turn and say that they are meaningless. that's a nice strategy (you can never be wrong!) but it's not conducive to productive arguments.