B.S. Story in Ohio

IrishLax

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Fixed.

Damn it... thread name didn't change... can a mod fix this for me?
 
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I'm from Toledo. Toledo Public Schools adopted a dress code because they were tired of kids dressing like thugs. I'm fairly certain it went to a vote, and it has actually done great things for the schools in terms of created an atmosphere conducive to learning. She should not have worn it though, since they do actually have a dress code and she didn't have to wear Ohio State or Michigan gear, she could have worn the regular khakis and polo.

I went to school at Cardinal Stritch High School in the suburb, Oregon, directly to the east of Waite's district. This girl should go there instead :) TPS is a dying school district, she should get the hell out. However our schools President was an Ohio State alumnus and outlawed Notre Dame gear too, what an *******. :)

Also, Ohio is the ****. Hopefully Kasich can turn the economy around though, Strickland was an idiot.
 

dshans

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With respect and love for Ohio, I say this was effing, mudder trucking bull shyte.

I have many beloved friends and classmates from Ohio, including my sister-in-law from Cleveland Heights. This episode crosses a very sketchy line.

"Spirit Days" are one thing, but demanding "A" or "B" without an accepted "C," "D" or "Z" that doesn't bring down the wrath of god for any who refuse either "A"or "B" is garbage.

Hell, I would be in her corner even had she worn USC gear.
 

WabashFalcon

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Reminds me of the kid that got screwed in Tampa Bay for getting the "Rally Mohawk" when the Rays got to the Series.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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Thank you, Irish4Life09, GreatDayne, and dshans, (everyone following dshans, also).

I have a local view of the story, living just west of the TPS district, and I have an inside view with experience as an educator. I can state unequivocally that the other comments (other than those I delineated above) I have seen about this story on this thread are horsesh it. I mean pure garbage. Not that I have an opinion about anything.

Here is the lowdown. Toledo always had a large ethnic Irish population. Toledo has always traditionally had a large Catholic population, (as high as 45 to 50 percent). During my childhood, many were both Irish and Buckeye fans. One of the local Catholic high schools (Central Catholic) shows the schizophrenia the best: Nicknamed the Fighting Irish, their colors are Scarlet and Grey. So wearing ND gear at an Ohio State/Michigan game party has always been acceptable local behavior.

Woody Hayes recognized this phenomenon all over the state, which is why he never scheduled a game with Notre Dame. Also, he claimed to be the Notre Dame’s best recruiter. He oft stated that if he knew he wasn’t getting a player, he would really chat up the Irish, good education and all, and even make some connections, so that way he wouldn’t have to worry about Michigan getting the player!

Also, for those of you not from the area, you may have missed it in your history books. The only other war between the states was the Toledo War, between Ohio and Michigan. There were several stabbings, several bada ss bar fights, and a couple of skirmishes across open water, beyond musket range. Why? Because some drunken surveyor made an error in Indiana, (which resulted in an eight-mile discrepancy when you followed his line east to Lake Erie.) Both sides claimed Toledo for the port and though Michigan got the UP as an appeasement, the hard feelings never went away. They actually translated nicely to college football. That is why the traditionally “most viewed” college rivalry is the Buckeyes and the Wolverines.

Back to this incident. TPS is a failing school district. It is horrendous. And like everything else in Toledo, there is no one to blame but ourselves. Reports state that Toledo is now eighth poorest city in the United States! It didn’t get that way by accident.

With this incident, you had a dumb-*** administrator making a big issue about something stupid. It doesn’t matter and is not worthy of note, other than for three simple points. This kind of stupidity is exactly what got us (as a town and a nation) into such deep trouble. Certain Toledo authorities, as well as members of the national media have an incredible anti-Irish bias. It is amazing that in a week a substitute teacher was fired from another Toledo high school (Start) for choking a student to unconsciousness in a submission hold, this story got all of the ink.

In the Toledo Blade, you may, (occasionally) see a Notre Dame score reported, rarely an article with any substance. You have an idiot (administrator) being encouraged, with all kinds of attention. The administration is able to cover up their gross negligence by having superfluous issues like this distracting us from a story that shows the dangerous level of incompetence we had accepted for our children. All this, and no one respect our Irish? (My Irish?) It almost breaks my heart!

Finally, if you notice, the young lady was dressed neatly and was a credit to the Irish Nation. And oh yeah, this is a sports site. Can you believe some canker would take a story like this and try to make a political issue out of it? That is just the overarching stupidity the people (the ones from both sided of the isle) that run all that mess count on, to get away with the crap they (all) have pulled for decades. And that is what has ruined towns like Toledo.
 
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phork

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Can't say A & B without the rest of the alphabet, end of story.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Remember the story of the kids in California getting suspended for wearing the american flag t shirt on cinco de mayo?

GARBAGE
 

nlroma1o

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And this is precisely why i hate both scUM and tosu.... they are f'n MORONS!!!!
 

IrishBlood81

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unbelievable! jeez. Thats hard to believe something like that would happen in the 21rst Century! I mean its almost racism!
wow...that family should sue!



81
 

Stoic

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Dress codes don't make schools any better. It made it a lot easier to grab a kids neck tie while punching the sh*t out of him in catholic school. :)
 

dshans

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Dress codes don't make schools any better. It made it a lot easier to grab a kids neck tie while punching the sh*t out of him in catholic school. :)

As a stoic I assume that you took your beatings quietly ... sorry; couldn't resist.

I'm sure that a priest or two grabbed me by the tie (and probably a nun or two) way back when in Orlando. No beatings, just a few ernest and enthusiastic in-your-face "discussions" when I cracked wise. There was one Irish Priest (he was an import from Eire) who would grab what little I had by way of sideburns and yank or kick me in the shins as I sat at my desk, but that was about it.

On the other hand, there was the lay teacher teacher I had in seventh grade who slammed a few guys into the blackboard when they acted up. Neckties were not a part of our uniform then. A shirt with a torso inside it was all he needed. The school forgave him the occasional split lip, but the broken tooth ended his teaching career.
 

edgesofsanity

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Lacy's father came to school. He says school administrators gave his daughter two options: take off the shirt or spend the day in in-school suspension.

The freshman decided to go home. Her father said he supports her decision. "I back her. I'm 100 percent behind her that she has the right to support her team."

I'll say this for the kid - she's going to have a hell of an opening to her personal statement should she choose to apply to Notre Dame.
 

kmoose

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The school has a dress code. Like it or not, agree with it or not; if you send your kids there you are de facto agreeing to abide by the code. I think only allowing Ohio State or Michigan gear was a cheesy move, however, it just goes to show how big and serious the Wolverines - Buckeyes rivalry is. The point is that they clearly stated (or so it seems) that there were only two acceptable deviations from the normal dress code. They didn't leave any room for "wear your favorite shirt". It was "wear tOSU or Michigan gear, or follow the dress code". So the girl decided to push the envelope by wearing her ND shirt. While I admire her moxey; once the game was up, she should have complied with the rules. And for her father to come in and argue it just teaches his daughter that she only has to follow the rules that she likes. If she doesn't like them? Well, then, Daddy's got yer back! We often complain about today's kids and their apparent lack of respect for authority, but yet we often stand idly by, or even encourage, lessons like the one that this father is passing down to his daughter.
 

BCSorBust

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I think the real problem is allowing only children who are fans of OSU or UM to deviate from the dress code - that kind of stuff doesn't fly it today's society. Please leave the PC discussion for another day if you don't like that. ND is literally an hour or so from Toledo - I believe Columbus is the farthest, so I don't see a problem with a girl supporting a different team (esp on SPIRIT DAY). What if she was supporting Auburn or Alabama for their big game today? I feel like that is just as reasonable as supporting the two other teams for their rivalry weekend. That assistant went on a power trip and now looks like an idiot in front of the entire country unfortunately for him.

On a side note, I live in Cleveland and UofM OSU weekend is my least favorite weekend of the year. I root for UofM just so OSU fans will shut up for 5 seconds which I believe to be impossible because I have not witnessed it yet.
 

IrishLax

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The school has a dress code. Like it or not, agree with it or not; if you send your kids there you are de facto agreeing to abide by the code. I think only allowing Ohio State or Michigan gear was a cheesy move, however, it just goes to show how big and serious the Wolverines - Buckeyes rivalry is. The point is that they clearly stated (or so it seems) that there were only two acceptable deviations from the normal dress code. They didn't leave any room for "wear your favorite shirt". It was "wear tOSU or Michigan gear, or follow the dress code". So the girl decided to push the envelope by wearing her ND shirt. While I admire her moxey; once the game was up, she should have complied with the rules. And for her father to come in and argue it just teaches his daughter that she only has to follow the rules that she likes. If she doesn't like them? Well, then, Daddy's got yer back! We often complain about today's kids and their apparent lack of respect for authority, but yet we often stand idly by, or even encourage, lessons like the one that this father is passing down to his daughter.

I personally agree with the father standing up for his daughter. What if instead of OSU and UofM apparel the school district said "you can wear shirts with crosses on them but not the jewish star" or equivalent. That would obviously be wrong, wouldn't it?

The bottom line is that if you are going to deviate from the dress code for the day it needs to be open to everyone to wear equivalents or it is discriminatory. If she got suspended the dad could've easily sued and won.
 

kmoose

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I personally agree with the father standing up for his daughter. What if instead of OSU and UofM apparel the school district said "you can wear shirts with crosses on them but not the jewish star" or equivalent. That would obviously be wrong, wouldn't it?

The bottom line is that if you are going to deviate from the dress code for the day it needs to be open to everyone to wear equivalents or it is discriminatory. If she got suspended the dad could've easily sued and won.

As I said, I'm not defending the school's decision to only allow Michigan and/or Ohio State gear. But the fact that the school system made a stupid decision has no bearing on whether or not you follow the rules. I personally believe that it is discriminatory to force me to obey a 15 MPH speed limit in front of a school, when I can go 35 in front of numerous other places where young children gather. But I'm not out there ignoring those limits. And, if I did, it would be wrong, no matter my personal thoughts on the matter. Maybe the dad should man up and run for a seat on the Board of Education, if it bothers him that much. It's just another example of an overprotective parent who is more worried about the fact that this is happening to his kid (and, by proxy, him) than he is worried about teaching his daughter respect for authority and doing the right thing.
 

IrishLax

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As I said, I'm not defending the school's decision to only allow Michigan and/or Ohio State gear. But the fact that the school system made a stupid decision has no bearing on whether or not you follow the rules. I personally believe that it is discriminatory to force me to obey a 15 MPH speed limit in front of a school, when I can go 35 in front of numerous other places where young children gather. But I'm not out there ignoring those limits. And, if I did, it would be wrong, no matter my personal thoughts on the matter. Maybe the dad should man up and run for a seat on the Board of Education, if it bothers him that much. It's just another example of an overprotective parent who is more worried about the fact that this is happening to his kid (and, by proxy, him) than he is worried about teaching his daughter respect for authority and doing the right thing.

To play devil's advocate here... Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, etc. all violated rules through civil disobedience because they believed they were wrong. We're talking about civil rights/freedom of expression here in its most basic sense.
 

kmoose

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To play devil's advocate here... Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, etc. all violated rules through civil disobedience because they believed they were wrong. We're talking about civil rights/freedom of expression here in its most basic sense.

Seriously? Even playing Devil's Advocate, you are going to compare the right to eat in the same restaurants, use the same bathrooms, have your vote count the same as a white person's, to being able to wear an ND shirt to school when it is expressly forbidden? Sorry, I can't even begin to tell you how incongruous that is.
 

mgriff

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This is simply a blatant disregard for equal rights. You can't only allow people who like Ohio State or Michigan to get out of the dress code, as it isn't equal. People who dislike those teams do not have a legitimate option and are treated differently. It should be any team or no team, that should be the rule. The posts on that article are disgusting, and a confirmation of how our country has devolved to the state it's in. No one understands the their rights, and are too willing to give them up for any reason.
 

IrishLax

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Seriously? Even playing Devil's Advocate, you are going to compare the right to eat in the same restaurants, use the same bathrooms, have your vote count the same as a white person's, to being able to wear an ND shirt to school when it is expressly forbidden? Sorry, I can't even begin to tell you how incongruous that is.

Really? The right to wear what you want is that different from the right to sit in what seat you want on a bus? The right to wear what you want is that different from the right to eat what you want?

They're all rights. Yes, this is obviously not "congruent" to the civil rights movement but it touches on the exact same freedoms and laws. You simply cannot give preferential treatment or rights or privileges to any one group of society without affording the same rights to all. If this ever went to court, the father would win in a landslide on the same tenants that all civil rights and freedoms are based on.
 

kmoose

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Really? The right to wear what you want is that different from the right to sit in what seat you want on a bus? The right to wear what you want is that different from the right to eat what you want?

They're all rights. Yes, this is obviously not "congruent" to the civil rights movement but it touches on the exact same freedoms and laws. You simply cannot give preferential treatment or rights or privileges to any one group of society without affording the same rights to all. If this ever went to court, the father would win in a landslide on the same tenants that all civil rights and freedoms are based on.

So I can bring a lawsuit, if someone refuses to allow me entry into a black tie event, because I am in jeans and a t-shirt? Good luck with that one.
 

IrishLax

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So I can bring a lawsuit, if someone refuses to allow me entry into a black tie event, because I am in jeans and a t-shirt? Good luck with that one.

This isn't an exclusive private event.

This is public school with the government making the rules.

Those are two completely distinct events with relatively nothing in common. I'm starting to wonder if this is worth my time to keep going if you can't see that. Anyone who has taken any law or government or general American civics classes should be able to understand why this is wrong and why your analogy doesn't fit.
 

kmoose

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This isn't an exclusive private event.

This is public school with the government making the rules.

Those are two completely distinct events with relatively nothing in common. I'm starting to wonder if this is worth my time to keep going if you can't see that. Anyone who has taken any law or government or general American civics classes should be able to understand why this is wrong and why your analogy doesn't fit.

Let's not make this personal. I'm really not even concerned about the rule itself. I'll give you that it is a bogus rule. But the reaction to the rule is what I am talking about. You brought up the civil rights movement. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s, and Rosa Parks' actions were appropriate, given the gravity of the situation. You cannot compare the ramifications of black Americans accepting racism, with some girl being told to change a shirt that was out of compliance with the student dress code. I grew up in Ohio, and unless things have drastically changed, the father would be laughed out of a courtroom if he tried to sue. As would any lawyer who tried to compare him and his daughter's response to those of Rosa Parks and MLK
 

IrishLax

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Let's not make this personal. I'm really not even concerned about the rule itself. I'll give you that it is a bogus rule. But the reaction to the rule is what I am talking about. You brought up the civil rights movement. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s, and Rosa Parks' actions were appropriate, given the gravity of the situation. You cannot compare the ramifications of black Americans accepting racism, with some girl being told to change a shirt that was out of compliance with the student dress code. I grew up in Ohio, and unless things have drastically changed, the father would be laughed out of a courtroom if he tried to sue. As would any lawyer who tried to compare him and his daughter's response to those of Rosa Parks and MLK

Sincere apologies, I wasn't trying to make this personal. If you want to talk about the gravity of the situation, I totally agree with you.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of challenging the law. I live in the DC and when my brother was in elementary school they tried to put in multiple uniform codes. Each one of them got absolutely destroyed in court and in the end they had to go wit ha "voluntary" uniform and "strict" dress code.

I can tell you right now that in my neck of the woods if a school tried to say "you can wear shirts advocating one school but not another" they would get laughed at. And if they tried to enforce it and threatened a girl with suspension... they would end up in court, the administrators would all end up fired and the school board would end up issuing some sort of public apology. But hey, maybe that's a difference in our areas. I'm sure mine has far more ACLU lawyers per capita than Ohio.
 

JughedJones

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Irishlax, I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on here.

(I can't believe I'm explaining this)

Having to sit in the back of the bus or eat at a certain lunch counter was because of the color of your skin, something that people have no choice over.

This example is wearing a shirt that's against dress code. I'm sure their reasoning is that if you can wear any ol' teams gear you would have the same problems that made them switch to a dress code to begin with. The thing is if the locality votes in a dress code, thems the rules.

That being said, it was a terrible decision by a small minded administrator.
 
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