Post Game Thoughts: Boston College

IrishLion

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Observations after being distanced from the game and watching most of the replay:

1. Wimbush's first long scamper was like a shot of confidence directly into his veins. He got around the end, opened up to full speed, and then put some moves on defenders before getting taken down inside the 10. After that, you could notice a difference in how he was operating. He was much more confident in running the ball, trusted his vision and feel for the flow of the defense, and relied on his athleticism to make things happen. That was clear on his looooong TD run... which was supposed to be a shovel pass. First-Quarter-Brandon tries to make that throw, or puts it in the dirt for an incompletion, or tries to cut back and gets swallowed up. Post-Big-Run-Brandon was feeling it, and stuck with the outside flow, waiting for his chance to turn it up field on a broken play. Also, he threw a beautiful deep ball to Smythe after his first long run... he's gonna get there.

2. Related - Long's Gameplans Against Good Defenses the Past Two Weeks:
UGA Run Plan: Bad
UGA Pass Plan: Decent
BC Run Plan: Decent
BC Pass Plan: Bad
Long is learning on the job. He's turned in head-scratchers with certain aspects of the gameplans the past two weeks, but I'd suspect BK will work with him on ironing things out. Combine that with Wimbush's much-needed shot of confidence through the second half, and I'd bet we see a decently well-rounded gameplan against MSU as a lite preview of what we'll have in store for USC.

3. BK wasn't lying about the WR depth chart becoming clear. It seems the base personnel grouping after three weeks has clarified itself, and mirrors what we saw used effectively in the B&G game over the offseason:
ESB - Smythe - Mack - Claypool

This allows flexibility, and opens up some nice setup-play opportunities if Long is on his game. The WR screen game is unpopular, but could be devastating if Long figures out WHEN to call the play... leading your opening drive with the WR screen isn't the correct time, IMO, because the opposing defense hasn't been lulled to sleep by certain play flows yet. But, if you're hitting Mack in the slot, or off of motion, and ESB becomes an actual threat as the lead WR, you're going to have opportunities, which will in turn open opportunities for Smythe going deep off of a fake WR screen, which they tried early against BC. It didn't work because, again, Long doesn't have a feel for when to call those plays yet.

4. This defense, man. It's amazing to see how confident they look, even after giving up some plays. There's no sense of impending doom when things go bad. They just tighten up, make adjustments at halftime, and attack the ball.

Tackling wasn't good, but it didn't kill the defense like it would have last year, because the unit is confident and rallies to the ball. "Help Is On The Way" is one of my favorite hivemind ideas in football when it manifests itself, and that's what's happening with ND's defense. Even if the first guy misses and the second guy is lunging and about to be shrugged off, the third, fourth and fifth guys are there to clean up. It's inspiring.

So fundamentally different from the BVG bullshit we suffered through. BK committed a certified crime by allowing that clown to stay on the sidelines at all in '16. Being able to actually trust and look forward to this defense being on the field is a joyous wonderment.

5. There are still red flags about this team that need to be cleaned up. Wimbush got a shot of confidence, but that needs to carry over. If not, and he keeps sailing balls high, Sparty and USC will make him pay. The coverage on the team still looks below-average, despite Crawford's performance. He did an amazing job to steal his first INT, but a ball placed better is a completion over his head. Love seems to be a step behind when a WR tries to get deep on him. Elliot is a total liability in coverage, period. The DL was getting cleared out against BC at times, but Coney played a hell of a game and covered that up. A better OL might give more help at the second level, and bigger runs will get broken off. Bilal looks great against basic reads, but looks worse by orders of magnitude when he has to actually diagnose a play... Tranquill NEEDS to stay healthy.

6. Something is happening during the week in practice that we don't know about... that's the only explanation as to why Dex isn't getting any work in the first half. Even with Adams ripping off two 60+ yard runs and obviously being effective, Dex needs a chance to spell him.

Tony Jones Jr must be the most devastating pass protector, and the most gifted receiver out of the backfield, in the world, or else Dex is the absolute worst in the world at those two things.
 

NewBrunswickIrish

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Would you have been happy with Deshaun Watson last year? He had ridiculously bad passing stats last season. There were several games that Clemson's offense was absolutely terrible and their defense bailed them out(or a missed 30 yard field goal from NC State bailed them out), but he won football games.

Brandon Wimbush has played three games. Two of those games were blowout wins and one was a one point loss to one of the top defenses in the country. Let the kid continue to win. Let his passing game improve. Let the season progress - this is a work in progress.

Sheesh this board has become deplorable. We are 2-1 with our wins being blowouts.

Lighten up people...

What? If his were ridiculously bad I hate to see what most quarterbacks' stats were

I think people would settle for over 4500 yards passing on 67% completion rate.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Figure out what % of CFB QBs get to start for 3 years. I'll bet it's about 3%. Clausen is the exception, not the rule.

Not to mention, you're comparing 18 year old, year 1 Clausen to 20 year old, year 3 Wimbush. Wimbush is not a teenager. This isn't his first year in the program.

You're not worth my time.

You're so arrogantly uniformed, it's startling.
 

CrystalHead

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I said this in the Wimbush thread and I'll say it here as well. The offense added another dimension that opposing defenses have to plan for and that's a QB that can kill you with his legs. Couple that with a strong running attack with our RB's then we have a stronger offense. It doesn't make it perfect but it can make it better by opening up a short to medium range passing game. RPO becomes more effective and will help long range passing game open up. I get frustrated like the next guy not seeing a productive passing game but give the kid a break and see how this offense develops.
 
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koonja

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I said this in the Wimbush thread and I'll say it here as well. The offense added another dimension that opposing defenses have to plan for and that's a QB that can kill you with his legs. Couple that with a strong running attack with our RB's then we have a stronger offense. It doesn't make it perfect but it can make it better by opening up a short to medium range passing game. RPO becomes more effective and will help long range passing game open up. I get frustrated like the next guy not seeing a productive passing game but give the kid a break and see how this offense develops.

That's what's crazy to me. Our running game should scare the hell out of everyone - and on top of that you have to almost dedicate another person to the box because of our QB.

And we still cannot open up the passing game. Or our QB can't see the field. Or simply cannot throw accurately. Or something - but it's weird that with this running attach and with our QB demanding more in the box, we don't have a down field passing game.

Passing should be so easy right now. Everyone's focused on stopping the run (and cannot besides Georgia).
 
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FightingIrishLover7

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That's what's actually scary. Our running game should scare the hell out of everyone - and on top of that you have to almost dedicate another person to the box because of our QB.

And we still cannot open up the passing game. Or our QB can't see the field. Or simply cannot throw accurately. Or something - but it's insane with this running attach and with our QB demanding more in the box, we don't have a down field passing game.

Per Brian Kelly's presser (paraphrasing, well):

"we're starting to see what Brandon is actually capable of, it's hard to see this in practice. Now that we're seeing his strengths and weaknesses we can craft the offense around those strengths and focus on correcting the weaknesses."

Do you guys not understand that it, actually, takes time to build a new offense? Especially with a dual threat QB that has NEVER practiced the way he's playing now? They can do all the plays they want in practice, but they can't get a feel for the actual Brandon Wimbush until he's got that red jersey off.

If you, honestly, expect a well-oiled, perfect (or even near perfect) offense in a situation like what ND is in right now (new role for HC, new OC, new QB coach, new QB, new offense) then you're crazy.

This isn't a "tweak" from Kelly:Sanford:Kizer last season, this is a freaking OVERHAUL. Overhaul's take time, kids.
 

CrystalHead

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That's what's actually scary. Our running game should scare the hell out of everyone - and on top of that you have to almost dedicate another person to the box because of our QB.

And we still cannot open up the passing game. Or our QB can't see the field. Or simply cannot throw accurately. Or something - but it's insane with this running attach and with our QB demanding more in the box, we don't have a down field passing game.

I hear what your saying but I think there is more of a problem with formations and play calling then there is with BW not getting it. ill ask you this... Would you rather see a QB struggle in the beginning of the season while he is still growing in aspects of his game AND still win or look like a world beater and crap down the stretch? I've seen more first year starters do the latter and come back to earth and completely fall apart.
 

philipm31

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We only can go as far as our passing game takes us. Wimbush is not taking us anywhere. The best we can hope for is 8-4 and with the amount of talent we have on both sides of the ball, barring QB (because Wimbush is a godawful QB, but a great RB), and that is just unacceptable.
 

JohnnyJasper

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Prove this to me.



Three games into his three year career. Prove to me that he won't develop.



The irrationality and sensationalism of this forum is staggering.



Because he can't move the chains with his arm... He's the starting QB for Notre Dame and has all the time in the world to throw the ball. Don't tell me "no ones open". A good QB can hit his targets when he sits in the pocket for 8+ seconds. If you really believe we have a shot at the CFP with MSU/USC/Mia/Stanford left on the schedule, you're lying to yourself. Theres at least 1 more loss on the schedule which means bye-bye CFP. Lets also not dismiss the likelihood that USC and Stanford could each have a loss or two by the time we play them which doesn't help us if we were to even win those games.

I think BW could turn things around next year, but to all of a sudden flip a switch and be able to hit his targets and move the ball midseason?? I don't know man.


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Pops Freshenmeyer

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Overthrowing receivers, unsettled in the pocket, and rushing through progressions all look like a guy who is pressing too hard. Based on the schemes not seeming to fit his performance I suspect practice Brandon Wimbush hasn't had these same issues. Hopefully he can get this all ironed out and settle down; he put up stupid numbers in high school so I assume it's fixable.

I also suspect he's going to spend a lot of time in pads this week.
 
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JohnnyJasper

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That's what's crazy to me. Our running game should scare the hell out of everyone - and on top of that you have to almost dedicate another person to the box because of our QB.

And we still cannot open up the passing game. Or our QB can't see the field. Or simply cannot throw accurately. Or something - but it's weird that with this running attach and with our QB demanding more in the box, we don't have a down field passing game.

Passing should be so easy right now. Everyone's focused on stopping the run (and cannot besides Georgia).



I think our running game is great. No question. But what did we do against a good defense like Georgia? It was an issue running the ball. And so we turned to the passing game. BW stats speak for itself that night. I know it was his first REAL game. But we saw it again this week against BC. A team can literally focus on stopping the run, and just like that we're in trouble. Can every team simply just stop the run? No. But there are definitely some that can.

I like the physical characteristics BW brings to the table, but he's not there yet this year. Not writing him off as the worst QB ever, but there's no way he figures it out midseason.


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FightingIrishLover7

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I think our running game is great. No question. But what did we do against a good defense like Georgia? It was an issue running the ball. And so we turned to the passing game. BW stats speak for itself that night. I know it was his first REAL game. But we saw it again this week against BC. A team can literally focus on stopping the run, and just like that we're in trouble. Can every team simply just stop the run? No. But there are definitely some that can.

I like the physical characteristics BW brings to the table, but he's not there yet this year. Not writing him off as the worst QB ever, but there's no way he figures it out midseason.


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I love this fan base.
 

IrishLax

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FIL7 thank god for your existence or I'd be losing my mind.

Literally every year since Weis '06 people have been complaining about not running the ball well enough and needing to go back to our roots and doing things like Holtz and Tony Rice.

Now we have absolutely shredded two oppponents on the ground at near historic levels and it's all "we're not going anywhere with a pretty passing game!!! You can't win just running the ball!" It's just so fucking stupid because it's equal parts hypocritictal and factually untrue... you 100% can win a LOT of games as a one dimensional team committed to the run.
 
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koonja

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FIL7 thank god for your existence or I'd be losing my mind.

Literally every year since Weis '06 people have been complaining about not running the ball well enough and needing to go back to our roots and doing things like Holtz and Tony Rice.

Now we have absolutely shredded two oppponents on the ground at near historic levels and it's all "we're not going anywhere with a pretty passing game!!! You can't win just running the ball!" It's just so fucking stupid because it's equal parts hypocritictal and factually untrue... you 100% can win a LOT of games as a one dimensional team committed to the run.

Until you run into Georgia's, where you find out your running game isn't all it's cracked up to be, and you're stuck in the one-dimension with no passing game to compliment.

Being one dimensional will beat the BC's. It won't beat the Georgia's, the USCs, probably Miami, and whoever we play in a bowl.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Until you run into Georgia's, where you find out your running game isn't all it's cracked up to be, and you're stuck in the one-dimension with no passing game to compliment.

Being one dimensional will beat the BC's. It won't beat the Georgia's, the USCs, probably Miami, and whoever we play in a bowl.

Lou Holtz was one dimensional. He did ok.
 
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koonja

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Lou Holtz was one dimensional. He did ok.

CFB has changed. So has ND's talent level since Holtz's days.

This argument will go no where - you're convinced all is well. And I'm telling you it'll look that way against BC. But not against Georgia, USC, Miami, etc.
 

IrishLion

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Until you run into Georgia's, where you find out your running game isn't all it's cracked up to be, and you're stuck in the one-dimension with no passing game to compliment.

Being one dimensional will beat the BC's. It won't beat the Georgia's, the USCs, probably Miami, and whoever we play in a bowl.

UGA has an elite front 7, built to stop the run, period.

The plan for throwing the ball on UGA wasn't bad, but Wimbush had no confidence at that point. I'm thinking running all over BC maybe turned the light on a little bit, because we know he has a good arm... he just wasn't executing.

Also, I think it would be foolish to think that Long/BK didn't take some good lessons from that UGA game. I'd doubt they just run-run-run into the wall with slow-developing plays if MSU/USC/Stanford are holding up against the run like UGA did.
 

beryirish

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FIL7 thank god for your existence or I'd be losing my mind.

Literally every year since Weis '06 people have been complaining about not running the ball well enough and needing to go back to our roots and doing things like Holtz and Tony Rice.

Now we have absolutely shredded two opponents on the ground at near historic levels and it's all "we're not going anywhere with a pretty passing game!!! You can't win just running the ball!" It's just so fucking stupid because it's equal parts hypocritical and factually untrue... you 100% can win a LOT of games as a one dimensional team committed to the run.

Hello Navy.

If ND is able to score based on running the ball and if the defense continues at 19ppg. then that is what you want your team to do, run the ball and eat the clock.

Wimbush will get his bearings down and the WR's, hopefully, will start to wake up.
 

CrystalHead

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FIL7 thank god for your existence or I'd be losing my mind.

Literally every year since Weis '06 people have been complaining about not running the ball well enough and needing to go back to our roots and doing things like Holtz and Tony Rice.

Now we have absolutely shredded two oppponents on the ground at near historic levels and it's all "we're not going anywhere with a pretty passing game!!! You can't win just running the ball!" It's just so fucking stupid because it's equal parts hypocritictal and factually untrue... you 100% can win a LOT of games as a one dimensional team committed to the run.

Thank God someone gets it! So tired of so called fans ignoring the positive and jumping all over the literally 1 temporary weakness of this team. We can go a long way with this running game especially once we figure out exactly how to use it.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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CFB has changed. So has ND's talent level since Holtz's days.

This argument will go no where - you're convinced all is well. And I'm telling you it'll look that way against BC. But not against Georgia, USC, Miami, etc.

Of course we'll run for more yards, against lesser opponents.
Of course we'll have to keep the defense honest with occasional passes.
Of course our talent and execution isn't Lou Era level.

College football changes, offensive schemes come and go.

There is NO reason an RPO can't win a national championship. There is also NO reason a 50% completion percentage makes it impossible to win a national championship.

It has been done before, and can be done again. What goes around comes around especially in football.

Experience and improved execution, that is what we need.

There are plenty of ways to win football games.
 

philipm31

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Per Brian Kelly's presser (paraphrasing, well):

"we're starting to see what Brandon is actually capable of, it's hard to see this in practice. Now that we're seeing his strengths and weaknesses we can craft the offense around those strengths and focus on correcting the weaknesses."

Do you guys not understand that it, actually, takes time to build a new offense? Especially with a dual threat QB that has NEVER practiced the way he's playing now? They can do all the plays they want in practice, but they can't get a feel for the actual Brandon Wimbush until he's got that red jersey off.

If you, honestly, expect a well-oiled, perfect (or even near perfect) offense in a situation like what ND is in right now (new role for HC, new OC, new QB coach, new QB, new offense) then you're crazy.

This isn't a "tweak" from Kelly:Sanford:Kizer last season, this is a freaking OVERHAUL. Overhaul's take time, kids.

We are not "kids," and frankly, what you just said is far more arrogant and myopic than what you accused the previous poster of, because he is right. MOST CFB QBs do NOT start for 3-4 years, and to compare a starting freshman QB to a Junior is asinine. Brady started 3-4 years too, and yes, it does take time to progress, but BW has been in the program under the same coach, with the same basic offense, for 3 full years. I am sorry, but Chip is not installing an ENTIRELY NEW OFFENSE. He left Memphis, and guess what, they have a brand new QB and STILL hung 48 on a ranked team last weekend. As Lax said, Chip was not the offensive mastermind at Memphis, it was Jay Norvell, the HC.

The problem is our offense is atrocious, and our QB is not developing--the OC is. Wimbush is not and never was a great passer. Had he been as good a passer as DK, he would have played. Wimbush is just not a good QB. EVERYONE knew we were overhauling the offense and defense--and we ALL knew this already--but Wimbush is not a good passer and Long is not a good OC. When that happens, you are crippled offensively, and your defense has to be stellar. Thank god our defense has been stout, because we were one half away from losing to fvcking BC, thanks to our inept passing game. How good was Kizer just 3 games into his first starting season? EXACTLY. Wimbush is a garbage passer, period...and now if you can force ND to become one-dimensional and have a decent offense, you can beat ND. UGA showed how to do it and they might be the worst UGA team in years. THAT should be scary, because Wimbush never will be.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Also helps having a decent coach. But that's a whole nother beast.


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It also helps allowing your OC to have more than 3 games to implement a new system before you write if off (even if it is average 300+ yards rushing).
 

philipm31

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Also helps having a decent coach. But that's a whole nother beast.


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Did you happen to notice that the 88 defense gave up an AVERAGE of 12ppg against the toughest schedule in the nation? NO? Yeah, THAT is why we won the NC, because our defense was stout AND opportunistic as hell.

Just ask Steve Walsh. Or Rodney Peete. Or Major Harris.
 

JohnnyJasper

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It also helps allowing your OC to have more than 3 games to implement a new system before you write if off (even if it is average 300+ yards rushing).



Dude. I get your point. But mine is plain and simple. We're not good enough to make it this year. The goal is Natty or bust. I like some of the players on the team. I like Elko. But the reality is, we're just not there yet.


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FightingIrishLover7

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Did you happen to notice that the 88 defense gave up an AVERAGE of 12ppg against the toughest schedule in the nation? NO? Yeah, THAT is why we won the NC, because our defense was stout AND opportunistic as hell.

Just ask Steve Walsh.

I'm not comparing this team to Lou's success.

I'm comparing this style of play to Lou's. This is (allegedly) what fans wanted. They wanted the ND of old.

We have an OC/DC that are taking us that direction. They're both 3 games into their overhauls. You, nor I, know where this will go.

However, I know the direction that they're trying to take it. And they're aiming for a return to the ND of old. And I for one couldn't be happier with their direction. Now, let's see what they can do and how long it'll take.
 

JohnnyJasper

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It also helps allowing your OC to have more than 3 games to implement a new system before you write if off (even if it is average 300+ yards rushing).



Also having a new offensive system implemented has ZERO influence on whether or not a QB can hit his targets. Period.


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IrishLax

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CFB has changed. So has ND's talent level since Holtz's days.

This argument will go no where - you're convinced all is well. And I'm telling you it'll look that way against BC. But not against Georgia, USC, Miami, etc.

You know BC had a better run defense than either USC or Miami last year, right?

It's like you people are obsessed with one data point... Georgia... as some perfect counter-factual against running the ball. Nevermind that it's actually evidence to the contrary of what you think it shows... it shows what happens if you try to throw it 40 times because you're scared to commit to the run, and it shows what happens when you do slow developing cutesy shit to the perimeter instead of commuting to enforcing your will on the interior. We have no clue what the rushing offense could've done against Georgia's elite front 7 because it was abandoned in favor of dumb passing plays, and the running plays we did call were timid ones.
 
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