Post-Game Thoughts: 2017 Blue-Gold Game

[NDFan4Life]

I'm just happy knowing that there's a clear starting QB, and we're not going to wonder who would be starting the first game.

I hate drama.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I'm just happy knowing that there's a clear starting QB, and we're not going to wonder who would be starting the first game.

I hate drama.

Some jackasses in the stadium last night were saying we should start Book instead. Some fans are so damn hard to please and don't know shit about football

 

[NDFan4Life]

Some jackasses in the stadium last night were saying we should start Book instead. Some fans are so damn hard to please and don't know shit about football

I'm just being facetious, but I didn't say WHO the starting QB would be.

 

[Downinthebend]

True.

Also Alabama has big, bruising running backs and offensive lineman. Defenses that are built to stop the spread can never handle a full game of that style.

As far as I can see/hear, Our offense is simply built to take what the offense gives us with a run preference

This exactly, we ran several slant and post RPOs, etc, that are "called run plays". Its my hunch that the coaching staff gives that credit to the running game (in terms of stats and concept of "balance").

 

[jspags10pg]

Some jackasses in the stadium last night were saying we should start Book instead. Some fans are so damn hard to please and don't know shit about football

Holy cow, I agree! It was bad! I'm no football guru but there were a few guys sitting right next to me who were just bitching the whole game.

Here's a few gems I heard:

- After a good play by Wimbush, "Hey Kizer, I hope you're watching this!" Like Deshone was the big problem last year lol. Then of course the guy had nothing to say after BW threw a pick or held on to the ball and got sacked. Guy said something else along the lines of Kizer being too hesitant and holding the ball too long as well.

- "Clausen and Kizer were two of the biggest busts EVER!" Seriously? Kizer wasn't even a big time prospect and played well above expectations. Clausen had big expectations but had an amazing junior season before going pro. Clausen would have won the Heisman if we had a decent defense in '09.

- "Catch the damn ball you sissy" or "Lets see a return! Cant be afraid to get hit or you won't make the team!" After just about every punt where we either fair caught it or let it roll. Guess he didn't hear the announcer say there would be no live special teams before the game or he's never watched a spring game before. I really liked the one about not making the team tho. It was Sanders he was talking about...I wanted to turn around and tell the guy that CJ is on scholarship, he already has a spot on the team locked up.

There were a couple other good ones that had me rolling my eyes but those were a few. I don't understand why people have to be so vocal and yell when they're obviously ignorant on any details. Blows my mind.

 

[IrishLion]

So if you want something to be concerned about, BW, in basically 1 half of play when he couldn't even got hit, accounted for 3 turnovers himself. 2 INTs, and a strip sack. Not to mention, there probably would have been more if he was allowed to be hit, because he stood in the pocket too long and took sacks that weren't because he was in a red shirt.

Yeah he definitely needs to work on efficiency in not holding the ball too long/making late throws during the summer. I think a lot of your concern will be ironed out as he takes more reps in fall camp. The guy hasn't been in live reps like that since UMass two years ago, and now he's in charge, so he needs to learn how to process everything with the bullets flying.

And like Crusader said, a few of those sacks are probably big runs.

 

[IrishLax]

So if you want something to be concerned about, BW, in basically 1 half of play when he couldn't even got hit, accounted for 3 turnovers himself. 2 INTs, and a strip sack. Not to mention, there probably would have been more if he was allowed to be hit, because he stood in the pocket too long and took sacks that weren't because he was in a red shirt.

But the thing is if he had been allowed to run he never would've stood in the pocket like that in the first place. They asked him to stand in the pocket and go through progressions... they literally asked him to hold the ball. Book -- who everyone is raving about getting the ball out 'lightning quick' -- against a second team defense took 4 "sacks" on 28 drop backs (14%). Wimbush took 7 "sacks" on 44 drop backs (16%). The game was absolutely skewed towards the defense getting negative plays in the backfield, and both guys did basically the same. Most of the "sacks" for each player would've actually resulted in them making the DL that go through look foolish and then making a big play.... Wimbush more than Book because he's more athletic but Book is not a statue. Chip Long mentioned (and they mentioned during the broadcast) how the scheme calls for moving the pocket and taking an advantage of an athletic QB's traits BUT that in this scrimmage they weren't going to do that because QBs weren't live and they wanted to focus on getting them work standing in the pocket and going through progressions.

This is the kind of thing that typically happens with an athletic QB when they get 1v1 with a DL they can see: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fkTRxC28NF4?start=69&end=83" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The play above would've been a "sack" yesterday when the defender even got in the area code of Golson.

 

[Downinthebend]

But the thing is if he had been allowed to run he never would've stood in the pocket like that in the first place. They asked him to stand in the pocket and go through progressions... they literally asked him to hold the ball. Book -- who everyone is raving about getting the ball out 'lightning quick' -- against a second team defense took 4 "sacks" on 28 drop backs (14%). Wimbush took 7 "sacks" on 44 drop backs (16%). The game was absolutely skewed towards the defense getting negative plays in the backfield, and both guys did basically the same. Most of the "sacks" for each player would've actually resulted in them making the DL that go through look foolish and then making a big play.... Wimbush more than Book because he's more athletic but Book is not a statue. Chip Long mentioned (and they mentioned during the broadcast) how the scheme calls for moving the pocket and taking an advantage of an athletic QB's traits BUT that in this scrimmage they weren't going to do that because QBs weren't live and they wanted to focus on getting them work standing in the pocket and going through progressions.

This is the kind of thing that typically happens with an athletic QB when they get 1v1 with a DL they can see: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fkTRxC28NF4?start=69&end=83" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The play above would've been a "sack" yesterday when the defender even got in the area code of Golson.

Ya, its called the "Naked" (because no protectors) game. He talked about it alot in his clinic talk. One point of emphasis we didn't see today is the H-back/TE is supposed to hit/chip the DE a little bit to give the QB a larger advantage in the roll, for whatever reason I didn't see that happen once. I'm not very concerned about the roll outs from a qb health perspective.

 

[tko]

I doubt BK would waste reps on a guy who is guaranteed bit to be eligible come fall.

Also, how has no one mentioned the "FOR 20" on Wimbush's towel? Am I missing something here or is it exactly what I suspect? And if it is exactly that, how long until he's rumored to be suspended for that activity?

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Man, you lost me on this. Please knock me over the skull with the explanation. I'm sleep deprived.

 

[irishandy]

1. I feel good about our #2 QB. Ian Book was impressive. He moved well in the pocket and he has a nice pass.
2. Hey opposing DC's how are you going to plan for this WR core: EQ, A'lize, Claypool, and Boykin?
3. Looking at the team on the sidelines, you can tell the S&C program has improved 150%.
4. Tony Jones Jr. could be a good goal line back for us.
5. Interesting to hear what Koonja said about Stepherson, the guy I sat by said the same exact thing.
6. I hope Khalid Kareem can have a strong summer and fall camp, I want to see him on the field.

 

[drayer54]

Some jackasses in the stadium last night were saying we should start Book instead. Some fans are so damn hard to please and don't know shit about football

Lots of the talk I've seen off this board from Irish football types was about Book and people who thought he should be lining up under center this fall. I just thought Wimbush was a foregone conclusion and was looking forward to seeing him roll. I thought Book was a good looking QB yesterday for sure, but I don't think it's a jackass statement to say he should get a look. I just don't want to see another Texas where we waste half the game when the answer is clear.

 

[Downinthebend]

Also this game potentially signals the deal of the tunnel screen, which disappoints me because I really love the tunnel.

 

[irishandy]

I think it's 99.9% OK to say that Wimbush will be starting against Temple.

If anyone on here was expecting Wimbush to dazzle with stats your crazy. Kelly is not going to show everything with Wimbush at a spring game. Also don't forget Wimbush didn't play last year at all.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Just got through watching the game.

The only real question I have is Tommy Kraemer or Liam Eichenberg at right? At some point, one of them will have to gel with the others to complete the O-line.

 

[stlnd01]

There were a couple other good ones that had me rolling my eyes but those were a few. I don't understand why people have to be so vocal and yell when they're obviously ignorant on any details. Blows my mind.

Because some people are just assholes?

 

[drayer54]

I think it's 99.9% OK to say that Wimbush will be starting against Temple.

If anyone on here was expecting Wimbush to dazzle with stats your crazy. Kelly is not going to show everything with Wimbush at a spring game. Also, don't forget Wimbush didn't play last year at all.

I agree. But the #2 QB has a weird way of showing up a lot at ND. I just remember watching him against UMASS (yes UMASS) and saying "Yes please!"

 

[Crazy Balki]

Well consider me underwhelmed by Wimbush. Two INTs and he had the ball knocked loose (fumble) from what I saw in the first half. He held the ball way to long and some of his reads were very questionable. Sure he might have a great arm and some wheels which will help him out but I saw some things I typicallly loath seeing from any quarterback college or pro.

I thought he did well. Not great, but well.

Wimbush was pretty sharp yesterday, but I give a ton of credit to Elko and the defense. They were apparently pretty vanilla all spring and kept the focus on fundamentals for good reason. On Saturday, Elko decided to, not necessarily throw the kitchen sink at Wimbush, but at least a faucet handle or two. And to the defense's credit, they executed the new packages very well. They were disruptive and getting in the backfield at a consistent rate. And this was against a very good offensive line mind you.

I'd say Wimbush will look a lot better in fall moving forward:

A) Obviously he'll have the offseason to develop and learn the playbook.
B) He'll have time to study and recognize the defensive alignments, blitz packages, etc. where that wasn't really the case in spring.

 

[Crazy Balki]

True.

Also Alabama has big, bruising running backs and offensive lineman. Defenses that are built to stop the spread can never handle a full game of that style.

As far as I can see/hear, Our offense is simply built to take what the offense gives us with a run preference

I dunno. I mean, if we're talking pre-Kiffin Bama, then most definitely. It was all about tenderizing the defensive front 7 and then taking advantage of it in the 2nd half. But Alabama has been pretty spread-savvy the last few years, especially in 2016 with Jalen Hurts. Harris and Hurts were their two leading rushers, and while they're not small, they're not Josh Adams, Tony Jones or Brandon Wimbush level in terms of size, all of which are in the 225-230 range. They're certainly not cut from the same cloth that guys such as Derrick Henry, Trent Richardson and TJ Yeldon were. Those guys were giants.

I think this is Saban reacting to the prominence of spread offenses and the tendency of games to turn into shootouts on a frequent basis. Saban used to rely on power on both sides of the ball, but I've noticed that his teams are generally not quite as bulking as they used to, but more athletic, which is also probably a reaction to facing more spread teams.

 

[DONTH8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVefsxBx9pY



For those looking for a full replay, here is a link to a youtube video with it.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I was very impressed with Daelin and Jay Hayes yesterday.

Everyone agrees that Daelin stood out and he was a monster. If he can stay healthy the kid is going to become a star. And once 2018 season rolls around he is going to be on many analyst top 32 prospects. I have no doubt that if he is healthy the next two season he will be a first round pick. Let's face it Daelin would have been a 5 star if he played full seasons his junior and senior year of high school.

As for Mr. Jay Hayes I thought he played very well
and no one else is bringing it up. He set an edge and was strong against the run. He also got in the backfield a few times and I think got a so called "sack" once or twice.


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[stlnd01]

I was very impressed with Daelin and Jay Hayes yesterday.

Everyone agrees that Daelin stood out and he was a monster. If he can stay healthy the kid is going to become a star. And once 2018 season rolls around he is going to be on many analyst top 32 prospects. I have no doubt that if he is healthy the next two season he will be a first round pick. Let's face it Daelin would have been a 5 star if he played full seasons his junior and senior year of high school.

As for Mr. Jay Hayes I thought he played very well
and no one else is bringing it up. He set an edge and was strong against the run. He also got in the backfield a few times and I think got a so called "sack" once or twice.


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Jay Hayes may be the most under-the-radar guy on our entire defense. He never gets talked about. But if he can play up to his potential he'll make a big difference for us.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After the Blue-Gold Game its obvious Elko is going to allow his LB's to be far more aggressive, thankfully. Here's a good example: <a href="https://t.co/wl4BTGnnpE">pic.twitter.com/wl4BTGnnpE</a></p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/856510371888324610">April 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here's another example, this time against the pass. Well designed scheme and well executed. <a href="https://t.co/8qfoS3cywY">pic.twitter.com/8qfoS3cywY</a></p>— Bryan Driskell (@BGI_CoachD) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_CoachD/status/856510695470510082">April 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

He also showed some of how aggressive he is with his S's as well. Both against the run and pass. Personally, I love when he brings his S's down in the run game. As the players get more familiar, those will get more effective.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I didn't get to watch the game. Did Okwara get any pressure? Were the safeties okay?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Message from the 35.

Message from the 35.

Thought I would post, after some of the comments in this thread.

Many of you hit the nail right on the head!

You cannot make any major player pronouncements based upon the weight of a single performance in a scrimmage when the rules are changed as much as they were (to protect players health.)

But team tendencies may be a different matter :

1) It is a 'forest for the trees' issue, but the most important element about this spring game is how this spring game may have featured the most competent performance of basic football skills in many years at ND. I can't think of many Kelly events, that stack up as favorably on this basis.

It was so worth the trip to see as much good basic blocking, tackling, footwork, routes, etc., etc. Yeah, sure Boykin didn't come back under on the easy pick Winbush threw, and Eliott missed a couple of tackles badly. Winbush sailed a couple balls, etc. But in fairness to the biggest whiff of any defender, did you see that move Adams made? I swear it was teleportation!

And there were a few throws Winbush's shoulders weren't square to the line, but when has that been the exception, for both quarterbacks in a spring game? Remember, it took Tommy until his last year to learn that, and Golson never did quite master it! On and on, just better quality performances, up and down the roster.

And the improvements in the o-lines footwork, with that old reach, influence, line blocking scheme eliminated!

I sat in front of a family of one of the players who played in the spring game. In this family, the father and uncle had advanced football experience (like NFL) and more than one sibling had D1 college caliber experience. They continually pointed this out to me.

Probably the biggest ongoing shortcoming that I saw was the tackles not being able to kick out on defensive ends adequately; I am not sure if that is entirely the tackles fault (McGlinchey, Eichenberg, Kramer, and Biven all had problems,) because defensive ends that played looked to be a different breed of cat. So to speak. And the linebackers were able to confuse everyone. Speaking of which -

2) Mike Elko is a football god! The play of the linebackers was amazing! Morgan looked to be a beast and moved like one. I think there is every reason to expect Martini to be a beast this year as well. I looked for a flaw in his game and didn't see one. He looked to be one of the biggest non-linemen on the field and moved like a much smaller guy.

Anyone who noted Drue Tranquil, not for a heroic performance, per se, but for finally being in the best possible position to kick ass, is right on target. What a luxury. It is clear that he is correct when he says being closer to the line lets him disrupt the receiver so easily with his strength, improving his coverage skills. What an asset to have him right on the line!

This really warmed the cockles of my heart. The whole time I am thinking, if I were a top high school recruit at linebacker, and I saw the improved performance out of today's linebackers after last season's performances, and realized only one of the projected starters will return next season, I would feel pretty positive about playing for ND. Wouldn't you?

3) Did anyone see any player with their hands on their hips? Not really? Neither did I, other than maybe for a few seconds after a particularly long run.

4) You can dog the "O" or "D" line as much as you want, but there wasn't a single penalty against them yesterday, which may have been the first time in Kelly's tenure that any event officiated went foul-free from the big uglies. In fact, was there even a penalty of any kind? Methinks not.

At this point Sam Mustipher deserves a big shout-out! Not only was he at the next level with his play, but talk about a dude that has made progress reshaping his body! And he played with absolute certainty, and confidence!

5) For the scrimmage having plenty of aggressive, spirited play, there wasn't a single injury of merit. And the players to the man looked much more fit. They really looked the part. I especially noted that McGlinchey's arms, which used to look long and lanky, now look like he has some large ordinance under his pads. Tillery looks much better, less mushy, and he seemed to move better on the field. Same with most of the d-linemen.

I laughed because of how monstrous Wimbush and Morgan each looked. Do you want an offensive and defensive set of poster-boys? Look no further. Wow!

I wonder how much of this is Duncan French teaming up with Matt Balis and Company, and how much is simply just chance? Personally, I think the admin just rode chance (bad luck) out of town on the noon train, with these recent hires!

 

[BobbyMac]

Thought I would post...

Screw this thread, we got it covered.

Now get over to Gant's thread and explain yourself.

 

[Old Man Mike]

An idle thought:

As I look at the OLine (as I usually do), I believe that in McGlinchey, Nelson, and Bars I see three persons who will be DRAFTED (pause to meditate upon what that says about the group this coming season) and, if Bogs is correct about Mustipher, one more shortly thereafter. The "baby" is Kraemer --- I doubt that many think he WON'T be drafted when his time comes --- or Eichenberg.

In any reasonable universe, ND is rolling out a OLine with too many NFL DRAFT picks to get on the field. .... mind-boggling.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Screw this thread, we got it covered.

Now get over to Gant's thread and explain yourself.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7404XMzHr-M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I've only had time to watch the first half...Agree with most of the analysis on here.

I'll add, does anyone else think Nic Weishar looks like he added some real good weight? Having a hard time telling him apart from Smythe.

 

[tko]

I've only had time to watch the first half...Agree with most of the analysis on here.

I'll add, does anyone else think Nic Weishar looks like he added some real good weight? Having a hard time telling him apart from Smythe.

Ask Isaiah Robertson if Nic added more good weight, LOL.