Post Game Observations Oklahoma State

Irishbounty28

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We could have masked our deficiencies at DB if our front-7 was getting home. But OSU's OL won that battle as well.

I wouldn’t say their online won the battle really. D-line was getting home so their QB started taking off. I’m certain the coaches told the d-line to hold up and contain. I think Freeman said as much in his presser. This is what limited sacks more than their o-line.

I will agree thei o-line dominated when it came to running the ball.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I also posted elsewhere I think even one Hamilton PBU/INT could have really altered things. Sanders is very temperamental and a Superman Hamilton play would have deterred him competely or led to INTs if he went off the rocker like he’s prone to.

Right. If either Kyren or Kyle had played, I'm sure we win that game.
 

FWIrish4

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Some pretty great perspective from the Rakes Report:

https://rakesreport.substack.com/p/rakes-report-186-roll-me-over-and

”I know it gets annoying to repeat this, but the last four seasons of Notre Dame football have brought us two playoff bids and two 11-2 seasons that have felt mildly disappointing, including the most recent one coming in a rebuild/reload year. I want to take the next step as much as anyone but this is still an impressive run of football surpassed only by a handful of programs in the country. Do I want to be one of those programs, playing for the national title and celebrating a big New Year’s Six bowl win? Yes, please, so much, but we’ve been blessed with so few Saturdays of sadness and don’t forget that when the sting of this one has eventually, hopefully faded.”
 

Whiskeyjack

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Sharing the full Rakes Report here for those not inclined to click through:

1) While a profoundly disappointing way to start off 2022 and Marcus Freeman’s tenure, I’d be hard-pressed to say much that happened in the desert was surprising. There’s an old adage that the postseasons for the MLB and NBA end up being microcosms of a team’s season as a whole, any flaw that nagged at you over the course of 162 or 82 games (an eighth-inning reliever who played with fire a little too much, leaky defensive rebounding) was almost certain to flare up at the most inopportune time. The flaws of this specific Irish team as well as the program as a whole were on full display as a Fiesta Bowl trophy slipped away.

Key among those issues was the previously discussed lack of oomph in the back seven, nobody able to step up and make a play once Spencer Sanders started to find his groove. At linebacker, this was just rotten luck, as injury wiped out a deep unit over the course of August. At secondary, we’ve discussed the failures in recruiting there at length, and without Kyle Hamilton there just aren’t many capital-D Dudes developed to where they need to be to make plays. On top of that, you had the issue we saw this season with the Irish defense giving up a touchdown in 39 seconds at the end of the first half, coming out in their base defense — were they not comfortable in nickel or dime due to the aforementioned depth chart issues? — and getting toasted.

On offense, you had the inability to run the ball consistently with Jack Coan in the game, particularly without Kyren Williams to make miracles happen a few times, and the perilous process of attempting to manage multiple quarterbacks. Chris Tyree was incredible as a receiver but his long carry in this game was six yards, and Logan Diggs’ was 13. I understand the desire to get Tyler Buchner in there and have been poring over drive charts to find the correct spot(s)*, but part of the problem was Coan was playing really well despite his limitations on the ground. His final three real drives of the first half were 10 plays for 78 yards and a touchdown, eight plays for 47 yards and a missed field goal and 11 plays for 84 yards and a touchdown. If you’re the coaching staff you have to adjust and maybe counter with Buchner before the Cowboys lock in their own changes, but Coan put up more points in the first half than most people thought Tommy Rees’ offense would put up in the game even with the missed field goal. On top of all of that, there were also the known depth issues at receiver, forcing those available to play so many snaps.

* I think the best time was probably at the end of the first quarter. Oklahoma State had just scored to make it 14-7 and the Irish had gone three-and-out their previous possession. You could also have inserted Buchner mid-drive at some point, but that’s always tricky, too.

2) I have a hard time putting much of this game on the offense despite the second half struggles. They averaged over six yards per play with limited options at wide receiver and two true freshmen playing tackle (excellently, I might say) against one of the best defenses in the country. I get the sentiment of “Well, they needed to run the ball to let the defense rest,” but the defense’s problem was less rest and more trying to generate some havoc by blitzing linebackers who never were able to get home. Oklahoma State’s four touchdown drives came:
  • On their fourth drive of the game, when the defense had been on the field for ten total plays prior to it starting.
  • At the end of the first half, when Notre Dame had just completed an 11-play touchdown drive to go up 28-7.
  • Immediately after halftime.
  • After Notre Dame had run some clock with a nine-play, four-minute drive in the third quarter.
Eventually fatigue caught up as the game reached the final frame, but you can’t give up four touchdowns on long fields to this rickety Oklahoma State offense in under three quarters. Did you know the Cowboys converted three third-down attempts the entire game? Two of them came on the first drive of the second half, including the incredible diving catch, but they were doing most of their damage on first and second. It was really easy for them at times.

3) Game management stuff: Not great. At the end of the first half, Notre Dame got the ball with 37 seconds and three timeouts. The passing game had been sizzling to that point but the Irish just ran the clock out, leaving potential points on the board. I understand that Coan threw a pick six in that situation against Toledo and going in up two touchdowns was probably more than the staff had hoped for, but need to be more aggressive there.

Prior to Oklahoma State’s game-tying touchdown midway through the third quarter, the Irish offense had moved the ball out to the 50 and punted on fourth and four. With the Cowboys having found their footing on offense, that’s certainly a situation where you could (and perhaps should, considering this is a bowl game and fortune favors the bold) have gone for it.

The decision not to punt at the end of the game with three timeouts and a little under three minutes on the clock is one where I think reasonable people can disagree. On one hand, a failure to convert put Oklahoma State in easy field goal territory and the game was essentially over barring a last-gasp miss or block that didn’t happen. On the other, the Cowboys were getting six yards per play and we had watched the Irish defense for much of the afternoon so the possibility of kicking it away only to see Sanders bootleg on a second-and-seven to end things seemed very possible. Ideally, you keep yourself in a position where you do not need to convert a fourth down deep in your own territory at the end of the game.

4) Adding onto everything was a rough day for the specialists in their final games at Notre Dame. Jonathan Doerer missed his lone field goal attempt and, after a beauty in the early going, Jay Bramblett was unable to flip the field the rest of the way. Net neutral on returns.

5) This has been exceedingly grim but there was also a lot to like. If that was Isaiah Foskey’s last time in blue and gold, he went out on his shield, ending three drives on his own (a sack, a hurry on third down and the miracle forced fumble to give the Irish life). Lorenzo Styles and Tyree were electric, and Michael Mayer was a warrior again, playing every single snap and breaking the single-season touchdown record for tight ends in the process. Blake Fisher hadn’t played since Tallahassee and was dominant, while Joe Alt continued his excellent freshman campaign.

In his final game, Coan mostly did a lot of good. The pick near the end was really bad but for much of the day he got the ball out against an aggressive front and was great at making adjustments, highlighted by the touchdown throw to Tyree when he read the Oklahoma State defense perfectly. I understand this is my decades-long bias, but I think going forward Notre Dame needs to focus on having a quarterback with at least some wheels to help them at the margins. Sanders was able to do things with his legs, Coan was not, and that adds up over the course of a tight shootout with a lot of possessions. I would have loved to see Buchner come in to try and loosen things up with the run game but I also understand the staff dancing with who brung them.

(Personnel sidebar: On Sunday, Kevin Austin announced he would be moving on to the NFL Draft while Braden Lenzy and George Takacs said they’ll be coming back for fifth years.)

6) That really, really sucked, particularly with the way it started where it felt like the big bowl coronation that has eluded us for so long would finally come to pass and start the year off right. Finally, the Irish got to play a team that was mortal* in one of these games and it was going so well and then it all just slipped away.

* Here are the F+ rankings (a blend of FEI and SP+ meant to limit the bias of the individual systems) of Notre Dame’s bowl opponents since Charlie Weis was fired.
  • 1st 2020 Alabama
  • 1st 2012 Alabama
  • 2nd 2015 Ohio State
  • 3rd 2018 Clemson
  • 11th 2021 Oklahoma State
  • 13th 2014 LSU
  • 13th 2017 LSU
  • 15th 2011 Florida State
  • 20th 2010 Miami (Fl)
  • 23rd 2019 Iowa State
  • 88th 2013 Rutgers (god bless the Scarlet Knights)
You’ve read this far so I’m going to attempt to draw a very thin distinction here that will likely be nonsense but let’s give it a go. I think there is a slight difference between being sad about a Loss and being sad about The Absence of a Win. When you lose a game, you often lose some potential paths forwards, perhaps keeping you from playing for a title or a bigger bowl, cutting off an avenue that would have been really fun to travel. This loss cuts off nothing for the program. Every long-term dream you had for Freeman’s time in South Bend is still very much alive, even if an 0-2 start to his tenure seems likely with the Buckeye passing attack looming.

Therefore, I am not really sad about losing the game, but I am disheartened by the Absence of a Win. A win would have made this the most blissful, extended honeymoon of an offseason imaginable. It would have ended the “Notre Dame hasn’t won a major bowl in decades” graphics (although I suspect they would have just been amended to say “Has only won one major bowl in decades,” but hey, progress is progress), meant the Irish finished in the Top 5 three times in four years and given this team who scrapped and clawed and fought so hard all season a wonderful capper. All of that just outside our grasp, easy to imagine, because we all were thinking about it at 28-7 late in the first half, forgetting the core tenet of this newsletter. In a way, it feels a little bit like Athens in 2019.

7) After a December that was running almost exclusively on Good Vibes, the Fiesta Bowl did serve as a reminder that Marcus Freeman is not a football angel come down to save us but indeed a flesh-and-blood coach who will make mistakes and who has plenty of work to do now that the offseason is here. Assistant hires need made — including a defensive coordinator who will hopefully have a better feel than what we saw Saturday — and the transfer portal needs worked to help patch up some of the depth chart holes. Recruiting looms large, with Tommy Rees needing to lock down his next quarterback and the coaching staff needing to convince some guys they should return for the 2022 season. Freeman said all the right stuff after the game, and now he needs to execute over the next eight months.

I know it gets annoying to repeat this, but the last four seasons of Notre Dame football have brought us two playoff bids and two 11-2 seasons that have felt mildly disappointing, including the most recent one coming in a rebuild/reload year. I want to take the next step as much as anyone but this is still an impressive run of football surpassed only by a handful of programs in the country. Do I want to be one of those programs, playing for the national title and celebrating a big New Year’s Six bowl win? Yes, please, so much, but we’ve been blessed with so few Saturdays of sadness and don’t forget that when the sting of this one has eventually, hopefully faded.
 

chicago51

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Sharing the full Rakes Report here for those not inclined to click through:

I agree about the blitzing and not getting home being a problem. Marcus Freeman is not going to throw Mike Elston under the bus but Elston was too blitz happy IMO. In particular to end the first half; no reason to blitz at that point till OkState crossed mid field . Particularly with a QB like Spencer Sanders. The dude makes explosive plays in the air and on the ground BUT he is mistake prone. He’s not a guy that is going to consistently lead long drives (he may lead 1 or 2). The whole logical way to defend Ok State is don’t give up the explosive plays, make them keep snapping the ball, and Spencer Sanders will make mistakes.

In particular when you have a 28-7 lead, you want to make them earn their scores, and not give up big chunk plays.

Some people including myself believe Marcus Freeman was calling the D in the 4th quarter. If so he did a better job, especially when you consider how tired the defense was at that point. ND actually only gave up 6 points in the 4th quarter, 3 of which where because of going for it on 4th down; albeit partially thanks to Foskey’s miracle strip. In the 4th quarter regardless of who was play calling they seemed to be making OkSt earn it, at the very least, not giving up explosive plays.

As a defensive coach myself it isn’t always sexy or what the fans want but sometimes just rushing 4 and dropping 7 is the better play call.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I agree about the blitzing and not getting home being a problem. Marcus Freeman is not going to throw Mike Elston under the bus but Elston was too blitz happy IMO. In particular to end the first half; no reason to blitz at that point till OkState crossed mid field . Particularly with a QB like Spencer Sanders. The dude makes explosive plays in the air and on the ground BUT he is mistake prone. He’s not a guy that is going to consistently lead long drives (he may lead 1 or 2). The whole logical way to defend Ok State is don’t give up the explosive plays, make them keep snapping the ball, and Spencer Sanders will make mistakes.

In particular when you have a 28-7 lead, you want to make them earn their scores, and not give up big chunk plays.

Some people including myself believe Marcus Freeman was calling the D in the 4th quarter. If so he did a better job, especially when you consider how tired the defense was at that point. ND actually only gave up 6 points in the 4th quarter, 3 of which where because of going for it on 4th down; albeit partially thanks to Foskey’s miracle strip. In the 4th quarter regardless of who was play calling they seemed to be making OkSt earn it, at the very least, not giving up explosive plays.

As a defensive coach myself it isn’t always sexy or what the fans want but sometimes just rushing 4 and dropping 7 is the better play call.

Mentioned it in another thread that I feel like ND (Freeman) may have voluntarily eliminated their greatest asset (Freeman the DC play-caller) when he (Freeman) got hired as HC and decided Elston was going to be the DC Play-caller (a guy who's never done it before, to my knowledge). Freeman is the defense. He has to be more involved. Even if he hires an outside DC, he has to be involved in the game day play-calling. Why handicap yourself by voluntarily eliminating the aspect of his coaching that made him so desirable in the first place? I'm not saying it's got to be 100% on him. But he's got to figure that part out, imo. When I heard that Elston was calling plays, I was happy for him but also skeptical.
 

BilboBaggins

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Basically, once Oklahoma State spread ND out at the end of the first half they went back to 4 WR repeatedly and ND did not have an answer. The reason ND didn’t have an answer is that they had a mismatch on on our LBs (both receivers and in the QB run game) and on Lewis and it forced the safeties to be difference makers (they aren’t).

From Freeman’s comments they weren’t prepared for it because they didn’t run it virtually all year. So it was a new look and Elston was lost. Freeman needed to step in earlier.

Someone smarter than me can probably say what the adjustment was that they were supposed to make but I’m guessing it was either to go to a 3 down front or get the LBs off the field and play “3rd down defense” on every down.

My comment on r/cfb immediately after the game:

"I think the difference was Notre Dame's unathletic ILBs. ND didn't have the personnel to adjust so they'd send them on blitzes hoping they'd get home. Lots of missed tackles and blown assignments. From there it snowballed and the defense got tired. OSU just did a really nice job of never letting the ILBs get comfortable in the second half."

Basically when I watched the game it looked like the adjustment Notre Dame made was sending the ILBs on blitzes to try and create a negative play, and they wiffed often enough for a mobile QB to make the Irish pay dearly.

The second half was one big scenario where Kyle Hamilton's presence would've allowed Notre Dame to play a better nickel package and counter what Oklahoma State was doing.

This is why I SMFH when posters are talking about the lack of Buchner or shoulda-woulda-coulda the offense in the second half, aka the usual Einstein insight of "dO sOmeThIng diFFeRenT." Tommy Rees called an excellent game and unless I'm mistaken, Coan is only the second Notre Dame QB to pass for 500+ yards in a game, ever. Against the best defense in the Big 12 lol

The difference in the game was the unathletic ILBs and lack of depth at DB...aka the big recruiting wins we have all been so excited about.
 
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FWIrish4

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My comment on r/cfb immediately after the game:

"I think the difference was Notre Dame's unathletic ILBs. ND didn't have the personnel to adjust so they'd send them on blitzes hoping they'd get home. Lots of missed tackles and blown assignments. From there it snowballed and the defense got tired. OSU just did a really nice job of never letting the ILBs get comfortable in the second half."

Basically when I watched the game it looked like the adjustment Notre Dame made was sending the ILBs on blitzes to try and create a negative play, and they wiffed often enough for a mobile QB to pay the Irish pay dearly.

The second half was one big scenario where Kyle Hamilton's presence would've allowed Notre Dame to play a better nickel package and counter what Oklahoma State was doing.

This is why I SMFH when posters are talking about the lack of Buchner or shoulda-woulda-coulda the offense in the second half, aka the usual Einstein insight of "dO sOmeThIng diFFeRenT." Tommy Rees called an excellent game and unless I'm mistaken, Coan is only the second Notre Dame QB to pass for 500+ yards in a game, ever. Against the best defense in the Big 12 lol

The difference in the game was the unathletic ILBs and lack of depth at DB...aka the big recruiting wins we have all been so excited about.

*whispers to self*

This guy gets it.
 

HouseofPain

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Hi Guys! First post! I agree with your assessment of the LBers but honestly cannot understand why there is such an issue there. ND's LBers were pretty high rated players. I dont have the data but my guess is every ND LBer was as high as to higher ranked than any player on OSU's roster. So why would they be considered a liability against lower ranked players so much? Only one thing really stands out...lack of development. It has been an ongoing issue and debate for years from what I have seen, especially with ND when ND's players have been outplayed by much, much lesser rated competition such as Purdue, Navy, etc. You can say stiff hips, etc but ALL the ND 4 star LBers cant have stiff hips can they? If you knew that your DB support was not well experienced, wouldnt you run faster, lighter LBs, especially in the 2nd half when OSU was eating up the passing yards? To me, it seems a lot of the blame falls on the coaching staff which honestly, makes sense all things considered. You are looking at a first game calling HC and DC and playing against the best team in the conference yet still losing by 2 pts. Granted, a loss is a loss but beats the heck out of losing by 14+ like we have in the past!
 

chicago51

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My comment on r/cfb immediately after the game:

"I think the difference was Notre Dame's unathletic ILBs. ND didn't have the personnel to adjust so they'd send them on blitzes hoping they'd get home. Lots of missed tackles and blown assignments. From there it snowballed and the defense got tired. OSU just did a really nice job of never letting the ILBs get comfortable in the second half."

Basically when I watched the game it looked like the adjustment Notre Dame made was sending the ILBs on blitzes to try and create a negative play, and they wiffed often enough for a mobile QB to pay the Irish pay dearly.

The second half was one big scenario where Kyle Hamilton's presence would've allowed Notre Dame to play a better nickel package and counter what Oklahoma State was doing.

This is why I SMFH when posters are talking about the lack of Buchner or shoulda-woulda-coulda the offense in the second half, aka the usual Einstein insight of "dO sOmeThIng diFFeRenT." Tommy Rees called an excellent game and unless I'm mistaken, Coan is only the second Notre Dame QB to pass for 500+ yards in a game, ever. Against the best defense in the Big 12 lol

The difference in the game was the unathletic ILBs and lack of depth at DB...aka the big recruiting wins we have all been so excited about.

100% spot on.

Yet with a 28-7 lead, Clark Lea calling defense wins this game despite all things that are 100% true. Lea pissed me off a lot of times when he would give up these 2nd half TD drives being conservative when you were kind of hoping ND would show some style points BUT the fact is the man didn’t blow 2nd half leads at Notre Dame.

OkState was able to come back because of explosive plays, not because Spencer Sanders, threw 6 yard outs all the way down the field and executed long perfect drives, Spencer Sanders typically can’t take what the defense gives him and execute long play drives. Maybe he would have Saturday, but with a 28-7, lead you need to make Spencer Sanders show you he’s capable of doing that.
 

Dale

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Recruiting wise, White was actually a low 3 star, Kiser a mid 3 star, Bertrand a high 3/low 4 star, and Bauer was a 4 star. The issue isn’t necessarily missing on recruiting or development. Most of them are playing out of position is one and they excel at more traditional run stuffing, not coverage or sideline to sideline. They are “hits” in their roles. Saturday they were not in their ideal roles.
 

BilboBaggins

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Hi Guys! First post! I agree with your assessment of the LBers but honestly cannot understand why there is such an issue there. ND's LBers were pretty high rated players. I dont have the data but my guess is every ND LBer was as high as to higher ranked than any player on OSU's roster. So why would they be considered a liability against lower ranked players so much? Only one thing really stands out...lack of development. It has been an ongoing issue and debate for years from what I have seen, especially with ND when ND's players have been outplayed by much, much lesser rated competition such as Purdue, Navy, etc. You can say stiff hips, etc but ALL the ND 4 star LBers cant have stiff hips can they? If you knew that your DB support was not well experienced, wouldnt you run faster, lighter LBs, especially in the 2nd half when OSU was eating up the passing yards? To me, it seems a lot of the blame falls on the coaching staff which honestly, makes sense all things considered. You are looking at a first game calling HC and DC and playing against the best team in the conference yet still losing by 2 pts. Granted, a loss is a loss but beats the heck out of losing by 14+ like we have in the past!

Just because you're a four-star ILB doesn't mean you can spy a mobile QB. We saw ND's defense struggle a bit against North Carolina this year, as we see defenses struggle every weak against the spread. That's just college football right now. College football is a sport of matchups and Notre Dame's LBs got exposed big time. If Notre Dame would have faced a Michigan State, we would be worshiping Bertrand for having 15 tackles.

When Oklahoma State was in Irish territory in the 4th quarter, it was the first time all half that Oklahoma State's offense played into Notre Dame's strength. The ILBs filled holes and held the Cowboy offense to three points.
 

Armyirish47

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Recruiting wise, White was actually a low 3 star, Kiser a mid 3 star, Bertrand a high 3/low 4 star, and Bauer was a 4 star. The issue isn’t necessarily missing on recruiting or development. Most of them are playing out of position is one and they excel at more traditional run stuffing, not coverage or sideline to sideline. They are “hits” in their roles. Saturday they were not in their ideal roles.


Recruiting is funny (I know, breaking news), but think about the linebacker room that could have been.

2017: Highest Rated - David Adams .9125, body can't do it
Biggest Development - JOK, yeah baby!
Other recruits - JGH (would have been huge this type of game); Drew White .8452, another good development story but his ceiling is what it is

2018: Highest Rated - almost no difference between Simon and Lamb (.95) but.....not meant to be
Biggest Contributor - Bo Bauer .9015
Other - Moala, low rated and star crossed

2019: Highest Rated - Okwanu .9163, now a DE?
Biggest Contributor - Bertrand, who was actually .8918 and a steal, sort of, sometimes?
Other - Kiser who has been fine but again is limited; Liufau - flashed and possible game breaker, would have been HUGE

2020: Highest Rated - Botelho was .9478 but also not a linebacker perhaps?
.....crickets....Pryor via transfer?.....

An alternate universe exists where we have big athletes roaming sideline to sideline with a couple situational thumpers and a couple of swiss Army knives that would have nuked an opponent like OSU.
 

Wild Bill

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My comment on r/cfb immediately after the game:

"I think the difference was Notre Dame's unathletic ILBs. ND didn't have the personnel to adjust so they'd send them on blitzes hoping they'd get home. Lots of missed tackles and blown assignments. From there it snowballed and the defense got tired. OSU just did a really nice job of never letting the ILBs get comfortable in the second half."

Basically when I watched the game it looked like the adjustment Notre Dame made was sending the ILBs on blitzes to try and create a negative play, and they wiffed often enough for a mobile QB to make the Irish pay dearly.

The second half was one big scenario where Kyle Hamilton's presence would've allowed Notre Dame to play a better nickel package and counter what Oklahoma State was doing.

This is why I SMFH when posters are talking about the lack of Buchner or shoulda-woulda-coulda the offense in the second half, aka the usual Einstein insight of "dO sOmeThIng diFFeRenT." Tommy Rees called an excellent game and unless I'm mistaken, Coan is only the second Notre Dame QB to pass for 500+ yards in a game, ever. Against the best defense in the Big 12 lol

The difference in the game was the unathletic ILBs and lack of depth at DB...aka the big recruiting wins we have all been so excited about.

Tommy called a good game and they put some points on the board against a good D. The issue is the offense didn't compliment the defense, and a tired defense probably cost them the game. A different approach on offense in the 2nd half could have helped out the defense. Coan threw for over 500 but the offense wasn't doing shit in the third quarter and ND desperately needed to keep their defense off the field for a few minutes. It would have been a perfect opportunity to change the pace with Buchner and try to pick up a few first downs with the run game. Even if they didn't score, they could have given their defense some rest and pinned OSU a bit deeper in their zone.

Maybe that would have made a difference in the game, maybe not.

Freeman and Rees got outfoxed by Gundy. Doesn't mean they're destined to fail but they probably learned a few things on Saturday.
 

IrishLax

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Recruiting is funny (I know, breaking news), but think about the linebacker room that could have been.

2017: Highest Rated - David Adams .9125, body can't do it
Biggest Development - JOK, yeah baby!
Other recruits - JGH (would have been huge this type of game); Drew White .8452, another good development story but his ceiling is what it is

2018: Highest Rated - almost no difference between Simon and Lamb (.95) but.....not meant to be
Biggest Contributor - Bo Bauer .9015
Other - Moala, low rated and star crossed

2019: Highest Rated - Okwanu .9163, now a DE?
Biggest Contributor - Bertrand, who was actually .8918 and a steal, sort of, sometimes?
Other - Kiser who has been fine but again is limited; Liufau - flashed and possible game breaker, would have been HUGE

2020: Highest Rated - Botelho was .9478 but also not a linebacker perhaps?
.....crickets....Pryor via transfer?.....

An alternate universe exists where we have big athletes roaming sideline to sideline with a couple situational thumpers and a couple of swiss Army knives that would have nuked an opponent like OSU.

Yea JGH would've been a freaking godsend this game//this season. It sucks that he lost the WILL job and then you have Liufau/Simon both get hurt. Both of those dudes are also so much more athletic than Bertrand they would've made a HUGE difference especially Liufau.
 

Luckylucci

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Scheme coach.

Snap counts got too high and over the entire season Freeman never came up with anything other than more Bertrand. This has been an issue since FSU. I mean, who hasn’t been talking about Bertrand’s snap counts all season?

Rees had a WR room with limited options but an elite talent in Styles. He spent the season and extra month working to expand his role in the offense. Styles had a breakout game when it mattered most.

Freeman had an elite talent in Kollie and he did not. After an entire season plus a month, Freeman got nothing from Kollie.

This notion that we have these unathletic LB’s so there was nothing that could be done is lazy. Sorry but it is.

We had an entire season to work Kollie into the rotation or even find a role for him, or increase the ILB rotation by cross training Kiser and Bauer, or find more options in the Dime packages. This is the best he came up with. Massive coaching failure by Freeman to end the season the way he started it with no other solutions than Bertrand playing 70-80+(?) snaps.

Okie State’s offense had an S&P+ ranking of 67th prior to the game. That was good for the 2nd worst offense of the top 31, overall, teams rated by S&P+. Even after whooping our ass, they finished at 53rd. There are plenty of answers on this roster to not get our asses completely waxed by that bad of a unit.

Im here for the Freeman Era and he has my full support but that was a terrible job by the defense overall and his previous position group.
 

dankgesang

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Scheme coach.

Snap counts got too high and over the entire season Freeman never came up with anything other than more Bertrand. This has been an issue since FSU. I mean, who hasn’t been talking about Bertrand’s snap counts all season?

Rees had a WR room with limited options but an elite talent in Styles. He spent the season and extra month working to expand his role in the offense. Styles had a breakout game when it mattered most.

Freeman had an elite talent in Kollie and he did not. After an entire season plus a month, Freeman got nothing from Kollie.

This notion that we have these unathletic LB’s so there was nothing that could be done is lazy. Sorry but it is.

We had an entire season to work Kollie into the rotation or even find a role for him, or increase the ILB rotation by cross training Kiser and Bauer, or find more options in the Dime packages. This is the best he came up with. Massive coaching failure by Freeman to end the season the way he started it with no other solutions than Bertrand playing 70-80+(?) snaps.

Okie State’s offense had an S&P+ ranking of 67th prior to the game. That was good for the 2nd worst offense of the top 31, overall, teams rated by S&P+. Even after whooping our ass, they finished at 53rd. There are plenty of answers on this roster to not get our asses completely waxed by that bad of a unit.

Im here for the Freeman Era and he has my full support but that was a terrible job by the defense overall and his previous position group.

You're not allowed to make this criticism because he didn't recruit the players in question.
 

Dale

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Scheme coach.

Snap counts got too high and over the entire season Freeman never came up with anything other than more Bertrand. This has been an issue since FSU. I mean, who hasn’t been talking about Bertrand’s snap counts all season?

Rees had a WR room with limited options but an elite talent in Styles. He spent the season and extra month working to expand his role in the offense. Styles had a breakout game when it mattered most.

Freeman had an elite talent in Kollie and he did not. After an entire season plus a month, Freeman got nothing from Kollie.

This notion that we have these unathletic LB’s so there was nothing that could be done is lazy. Sorry but it is.

We had an entire season to work Kollie into the rotation or even find a role for him, or increase the ILB rotation by cross training Kiser and Bauer, or find more options in the Dime packages. This is the best he came up with. Massive coaching failure by Freeman to end the season the way he started it with no other solutions than Bertrand playing 70-80+(?) snaps.

Okie State’s offense had an S&P+ ranking of 67th prior to the game. That was good for the 2nd worst offense of the top 31, overall, teams rated by S&P+. Even after whooping our ass, they finished at 53rd. There are plenty of answers on this roster to not get our asses completely waxed by that bad of a unit.

Im here for the Freeman Era and he has my full support but that was a terrible job by the defense overall and his previous position group.

There is a distinct chance, Kollie wasn’t an improvement? He’s a FR that was trying to learn one position and then needed to be shifted. It seems more likely to assume Kollie is still processing the game like many freshman. Styles jumped off the screen the second he stepped on it, Kollie didn’t. That’s okay. Again he was only a FR.

How is Bauer training at WILL a solution? That just means more White at MIKE when the dude was hurt and would be situationally out of position. Kiser at WILL means what you want more Pryor? They tried that. Utilized him in proper spots. They tried Henderson. Henderson was not good inside in Nickel/Dime, so they tried him S and he did improve and look more natural there. Tried KJ Wallace, wasn’t good. The argument of should have tried more options rests on Kollie and the FR DBs. Hanging the words failure and terrible on the that, I wouldn’t.
 

chicago51

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While already mentioned I think conservative Clark Lea could have won this game with a 28-7 lead because Spencer Sanders isn't known as QB patient enough to keep taking what the defense gives him.

I will say though Lea, Todd Lyght, and Terry Joseph kind of left Marcus Freeman a mess when it comes to the back 7 on defense.

I critized his play calling in the Fiesta Bowl but Mike Elston's boys on the d-line actually made this defense very respectable most of the year.
 

IrishDan

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Any of you guys watch Baylor in the Sugar Bowl? Seeing what Dave Aranda did with that 3 Star talent on defense was a thing of beauty! I get that Corral (Sp?) went down, but those dudes were flying around and cracking skulls! Only 1 of them was in the top-500 Nationally....0 of them were his recruits. That guy knows how to coach defense - I sure hope Freeman does too!
 

Rogue219

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I'm glad he's coming back. He's needed badly. What a travesty it was that we couldn't even attempt to run against Okie State yesterday when they didn't even have a DC. It was embarrassing.

You're very dramatic. "Travesty". "Embarrassing."

Oklahoma State was tremendous against the run all year. The worst game they had defending the run: 189 yards to OU. http://www.cfbstats.com/2021/team/52...e/gamelog.html

Baylor was the tenth best rushing offense in America. OkSU allowed 107 yards to them in the first game they played and 62 yards the second time.

They are the 4th best defense in the country. 4th in total yards, 5th in yards per play. 9th in scoring D. They only gave up 30+ points twice all year and one of those was to ND.

Does anyone here think Buchner would have really made a difference against a team that was consistently stout in a conference that doesn't generally have stout defenses?
 

BleedBlueGold

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You're very dramatic. "Travesty". "Embarrassing."

Oklahoma State was tremendous against the run all year. The worst game they had defending the run: 189 yards to OU. http://www.cfbstats.com/2021/team/52...e/gamelog.html

Baylor was the tenth best rushing offense in America. OkSU allowed 107 yards to them in the first game they played and 62 yards the second time.

They are the 4th best defense in the country. 4th in total yards, 5th in yards per play. 9th in scoring D. They only gave up 30+ points twice all year and one of those was to ND.

Does anyone here think Buchner would have really made a difference against a team that was consistently stout in a conference that doesn't generally have stout defenses?

I would've given Buchner a few reps in the 3rd quarter when the wheels were completely falling off for ND. At worst, Buchner's legs can pick up a couple first downs and provide the defense some rest and the ability to regroup. OSU didn't have to respect Coan's legs at all. So much so that their LBs would cheat back into coverage (see Rodriguez's INT.....a play in which TB would've taken off and picked up some key yardage).

I don't blame Rees for the second half game plan though. There were a few plays where players didn't execute or OSU made a good tackle in space. This is a bad example because I can't remember the details, but does anyone recall the play where ND ran a reverse (maybe?) and the OSU player broke up the play with a shoestring type tackle....literally no other OSU player in sight. If the runner (Tyree maybe?) breaks that one tackle, that is a massive explosive play, maybe even TD. Brilliant play call that just didn't work out. Point being, Rees didn't play TB because the game didn't dictate that TB play (although I'd argue maybe in 3rd qtr). Coan and the rest of the offense played good enough against a fantastic defense. In the end, ND's defense got exploited. IMO, it's as simple as that.
 

Whiskeyjack

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This is a bad example because I can't remember the details, but does anyone recall the play where ND ran a reverse (maybe?) and the OSU player broke up the play with a shoestring type tackle....literally no other OSU player in sight. If the runner (Tyree maybe?) breaks that one tackle, that is a massive explosive play, maybe even TD. Brilliant play call that just didn't work out.

Pretty sure that was Diggs. Had it been Tyree, that's an easy 6.
 

yankeehater

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My comment on r/cfb immediately after the game:

"I think the difference was Notre Dame's unathletic ILBs. ND didn't have the personnel to adjust so they'd send them on blitzes hoping they'd get home. Lots of missed tackles and blown assignments. From there it snowballed and the defense got tired. OSU just did a really nice job of never letting the ILBs get comfortable in the second half."

Basically when I watched the game it looked like the adjustment Notre Dame made was sending the ILBs on blitzes to try and create a negative play, and they wiffed often enough for a mobile QB to make the Irish pay dearly.

The second half was one big scenario where Kyle Hamilton's presence would've allowed Notre Dame to play a better nickel package and counter what Oklahoma State was doing.

This is why I SMFH when posters are talking about the lack of Buchner or shoulda-woulda-coulda the offense in the second half, aka the usual Einstein insight of "dO sOmeThIng diFFeRenT." Tommy Rees called an excellent game and unless I'm mistaken, Coan is only the second Notre Dame QB to pass for 500+ yards in a game, ever. Against the best defense in the Big 12 lol

The difference in the game was the unathletic ILBs and lack of depth at DB...aka the big recruiting wins we have all been so excited about.

Because he threw the ball 68 times! And you realize he only completed 55% of those passes. That means 45% of those ND gained no yardage (not counting sacks either). I would venture to guess most teams that throw the ball that much lose a majority of the time. ND played and looked like a Big12 team. A lot of passes and passing yards and no defense to speak of on the other side of the ball.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Because he threw the ball 68 times! And you realize he only completed 55% of those passes. I would venture to guess most teams that throw the ball that much lose a majority of the time. ND played and looked like a Big12 team. A lot of passes and passing yards and no defense to speak of on the other side of the ball.

You wanted ND to "impose its will" by running into the teeth of the #2 defense in the nation? That was never a realistic option. Forcing the run for the sake of balance would have resulted in more 3 and outs and fewer points.

I can't excuse the defense for its collapse between the late 2nd quarter through the 3rd, but aside from giving Buchner a series or two in the 3rd, I don't see what else Rees could have done.
 

yankeehater

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You wanted ND to "impose its will" by running into the teeth of the #2 defense in the nation? That was never a realistic option. Forcing the run for the sake of balance would have resulted in more 3 and outs and fewer points.

I can't excuse the defense for its collapse between the late 2nd quarter through the 3rd, but aside from giving Buchner a series or two in the 3rd, I don't see what else Rees could have done.

I think they could have varied up the run game at least. Buchner at some point. That jet sweep to Lenzy was going to the house if not for the shoestring tackle and Takacs missed block (I think Takacs thought Lenzy had already beaten the guy). More plays like that. If anything, try to give the D a rest. It was clear early on they were gassed.

I also believe the WR's were gassed as well. I watched a recent interview of Coach Norvell and the question came up about running an air raid (pass happy) offense in regards to recruiting. He said it takes 12 WR's on the team to practice and play that type of offense. ND definitely does not have the depth for that even for one game.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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I think they could have varied up the run game at least. Buchner at some point. That jet sweep to Lenzy was going to the house if not for the shoestring tackle and Takacs missed block (I think Takacs thought Lenzy had already beaten the guy). More plays like that. If anything, try to give the D a rest. It was clear early on they were gassed.

That's fair. There was obviously no need to change anything in the first half, and you have to at least try what was working so well for another series or two in the 3rd until it's clear that Gundy's adjustments have to be answered. So there was a window to mix things up there, but it wasn't very large. Regardless, 35 points should have been more than sufficient to beat the Pokes.
 

yankeehater

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That's fair. There was obviously no need to change anything in the first half, and you have to at least try what was working so well for another series or two in the 3rd until it's clear that Gundy's adjustments have to be answered. So there was a window to mix things up there, but it wasn't very large. Regardless, 35 points should have been more than sufficient to beat the Pokes.

I agree. Call me biased but Okie State did not really impress me on either side of the ball. Especially for a defense that highly touted.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I think they could have varied up the run game at least. Buchner at some point. That jet sweep to Lenzy was going to the house if not for the shoestring tackle and Takacs missed block (I think Takacs thought Lenzy had already beaten the guy). More plays like that. If anything, try to give the D a rest. It was clear early on they were gassed.

I also believe the WR's were gassed as well. I watched a recent interview of Coach Norvell and the question came up about running an air raid (pass happy) offense in regards to recruiting. He said it takes 12 WR's on the team to practice and play that type of offense. ND definitely does not have the depth for that even for one game.

I believe that's the play I was attempting to reference. Even the announcers called it out that there wasn't another OSU player in sight if he beats that one man. Ugh.

Also, I agree with your WR comment.

However, bottom line, I agree with Whiskey above....offense scored more than enough points to win this game. OSU exploited ND's defensive deficiencies mercilessly. If anything needed to be done during the game, it was on that side of the ball.
 

tko

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Curious the impact on the game had Bertrand been sound in tackling and Lewis broken up a few passes.
 
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