Post Game Observations Oklahoma State

[Sea Turtle]

Slept on it. Woke up. Still can’t fully articulate how I feel about what I witnessed yesterday in that game. Such bliss to such agony. You want to run the gamut of emotions contained in the ND Football experience? Peep that game thread.

I’ve got a lot of thoughts, but honestly moving forward I feel like it should give Freeman some solid foundation for the directions he needs to go with the team. We definitely saw some strengths that we can bank on, as well as a lot of glaring weaknesses that need addressed. Now it’s just incumbent upon him to fix them. I believe he is motivated and will work tirelessly to do so.

Cheers, boys. What a ride it’s been over the last 6-7 weeks.

It's really a wake-up call for what the program really is. It's an ok program that can beat poor to mediocre teams. It simply can't beat good teams. It simply can't win big games. 28 years isn't a coaching issue. It's not a strength and conditioning issue. It's not a resource issue.

There is something systemically wrong with the program and University as it relates to football. A team of scrappy 3 stars, after a slow start, completely dominated and embarrassed a team full of 4 stars and some 5 stars in a way that was stunning and embarrassing. In a game that would have been the biggest victory in over a quarter of a century.

I'm not as angry as I was last night. I'm more introspective than irascible now. I'm more crestfallen than infuriated. Notre Dame can have nice seasons. We can enjoy them for what they are. They can win Music City, Pinstripe and Citrus Bowls. And we can cheer them on. But we have to be honest with ourselves. Notre Dame and great football broke up in 1995 and like the Beatles, no matter how much we want it, they aren't getting back together again.

 

[irishff1014]

It's really a wake-up call for what the program really is. It's an ok program that can beat poor to mediocre teams. It simply can't beat good teams. It simply can't win big games. 28 years isn't a coaching issue. It's not a strength and conditioning issue. It's not a resource issue.

There is something systemically wrong with the program and University as it relates to football. A team of scrappy 3 stars, after a slow start, completely dominated and embarrassed a team full of 4 stars and some 5 stars in a way that was stunning and embarrassing. In a game that would have been the biggest victory in over a quarter of a century.

I'm not as angry as I was last night. I'm more introspective than irascible now. I'm more crestfallen than infuriated. Notre Dame can have nice seasons. We can enjoy them for what they are. They can win Music City, Pinstripe and Citrus Bowls. And we can cheer them on. But we have to be honest with ourselves. Notre Dame and great football broke up in 1995 and like the Beatles, no matter how much we want it, they aren't getting back together again.

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

These bowl games have become more of an exhibition. I honestly don't care too much about the loss. Freeman should have used it as an opportunity to get Buchner reps. We are going to get trounced in the Shoe next year unless he's the chosen one.

 

[IrishTusker]

It's really a wake-up call for what the program really is. It's an ok program that can beat poor to mediocre teams. It simply can't beat good teams. It simply can't win big games. 28 years isn't a coaching issue. It's not a strength and conditioning issue. It's not a resource issue.

There is something systemically wrong with the program and University as it relates to football. A team of scrappy 3 stars, after a slow start, completely dominated and embarrassed a team full of 4 stars and some 5 stars in a way that was stunning and embarrassing. In a game that would have been the biggest victory in over a quarter of a century.

I'm not as angry as I was last night. I'm more introspective than irascible now. I'm more crestfallen than infuriated. Notre Dame can have nice seasons. We can enjoy them for what they are. They can win Music City, Pinstripe and Citrus Bowls. And we can cheer them on. But we have to be honest with ourselves. Notre Dame and great football broke up in 1995 and like the Beatles, no matter how much we want it, they aren't getting back together again.

So what, in your view, is the problem? 28 years could be a coaching issue, actually (e.g., in which of the NY6 games since 1994 did we have better coaching than the other team?)

This sounds to me like a "curse" theory. If not, tell us what exactly the problem is.

 

[IrishLax]

In the clear light of morning I’m mainly pissed that this has potential to torpedo momentum whereas a win would’ve led to 9 months of good vibes and recruiting.

ignoring the existential stuff — we obviously need a DC with track record and need to massively hit the portal. Even with doing that, I don’t know how we possibly match up with Ohio State (or even USC) next year. Our back end and LBs are just slow and can’t tackle. Marist will help with the athleticism but we don’t have an impact player in the pipeline at MIKE. We don’t have an answer at safety or CB either unless it’s a freshman that couldn’t get on the field.

 

[texbender]

A very makeable FG might have allowed for a win.
Poor tackling was our demise.
Thought Coan had a pretty good game, but still surprised TB didn't play.
Styles was awesome.
Lewis got torched.

 

[MacIrish75]

In the clear light of morning I’m mainly pissed that this has potential to torpedo momentum whereas a win would’ve led to 9 months of good vibes and recruiting.

ignoring the existential stuff — we obviously need a DC with track record and need to massively hit the portal. Even with doing that, I don’t know how we possibly match up with Ohio State (or even USC) next year. Our back end and LBs are just slow and can’t tackle. Marist will help with the athleticism but we don’t have an impact player in the pipeline at MIKE. We don’t have an answer at safety or CB either unless it’s a freshman that couldn’t get on the field.

The safety from NW would help immensely. I’m hopeful we can pick up at least 4-5 quality players at positions of need in the portal.

 

[IrishLax]

The safety from NW would help immensely. I’m hopeful we can pick up at least 4-5 quality players at positions of need in the portal.

Would certainly be a huge pickup.

If ND doesn’t lose a bunch of people to the portal, my shopping list is:
-1 safety
-1 CB
-2 WR (unless we add someone to this class)
-1 athletic MLB

 

[ThePiombino]

Slept on it. My observations:

* MF and JS need to go out and hire a GOOD defensive coordinator -- a la how JS and BK did in 2017, 2018, 2021. Otherwise, this program will trend closer to 2016 than 2018 and 2020.

* We need to get more athletic at LB and DB and like fast. Lea was a GREAT coach, but he left the cupboard pretty thin on the backside.

* I truly believe Coan was both the reason we won 11 games and the reason we lost 2. Yes, the defense gave up 600+ yards. And that's brutal; HOWEVER, a lot of that was because they were constantly on the field in the 2nd half and absolutely gassed. Yes, a better DC than Elston would have made better adjustments, but think about this - the defense can't be a sieve if it's not on the field, right? The offense did the D zero favors in the 2nd half. A lot of that is due to Coan's limitations. Coan may very well be a better passer than TB (we don't know that, but he could be). However, TB's athleticism alone would have allowed for SEVERAL 1st downs that resulted in punts for the Coan-led offense yesterday. Even if those drives don't result in scores, they 1) flip the field more efficiently and 2) allow the ND D more time to catch its breath. I'm genuinely surprised that MF/Tommy didn't think there was an opportunity in the 2nd half for TB...

 

[notredomer23]

Would certainly be a huge pickup.

If ND doesn’t lose a bunch of people to the portal, my shopping list is:
-1 safety
-1 CB
-2 WR (unless we add someone to this class)
-1 athletic MLB

Is Avery Davis expected back/ be fully healthy? If he’s back and they can add the new offer that went out, IMO better off getting 3 WR recruits in 2023 and a 4th athlete that can play it as well. I think a receiving corps of Styles, Austin, and Colzie is actually really damn good even if a little thin.

I think I’d grab 2 corners and a safety if they even can. I’ve been a big Clarence Lewis fan. Came in and has probably already shattered expectations based on his star rating, but corner is dire in terms of talent and depth. Get all the warm body transfers we can there and hope for the best. I mean I’m picturing Lewis defending Smith-Njigba. Not fun.

 

[ThePiombino]

Is Avery Davis expected back/ be fully healthy? If he’s back and they can add the new offer that went out, IMO better off getting 3 WR recruits in 2023 and a 4th athlete that can play it as well. I think a receiving corps of Styles, Austin, and Colzie is actually really damn good even if a little thin.

I think I’d grab 2 corners and a safety if they even can. I’ve been a big Clarence Lewis fan. Came in and has probably already shattered expectations based on his star rating, but corner is dire in terms of talent and depth. Get all the warm body transfers we can there and hope for the best. I mean I’m picturing Lewis defending Smith-Njigba. Not fun.

I think it's way more likely that we get Davis back than Austin. IMO, we get Davis and 1 of Wilkins and Lenzy back.

 

[NDFAN2008]

We signed some good LB’s in this class yes they’ll be Freshman but Sneed should be on the field as a freshman. Hopefully 1 of the 3 corners coming is can show out right away. Jaden Mickey could be that guy. I’m super excited for Jadarian price the coaches need to find a way to get him touches or on the field next year. Also please get someone that can return punts besides fair catching. Maybe styles? price? Someone please

 

[Dizzyphil]

Would certainly be a huge pickup.

If ND doesn’t lose a bunch of people to the portal, my shopping list is:
-1 safety
-1 CB
-2 WR (unless we add someone to this class)
-1 athletic MLB

Linebacker Paul Moala and Punter Jay Bramblett announced last night they are entering the portal - Staff knew Bramblett was leaving, and Moala couldn't stay healthy. So, I'm hoping that this will be the common theme - transfers that have been limited to playing time because they are hurt or lack of playing time. MF needs to start working on those that have eligibility and Feb 2nd.

 

[Irish#1]

In the clear light of morning I’m mainly pissed that this has potential to torpedo momentum whereas a win would’ve led to 9 months of good vibes and recruiting.

ignoring the existential stuff — we obviously need a DC with track record and need to massively hit the portal. Even with doing that, I don’t know how we possibly match up with Ohio State (or even USC) next year. Our back end and LBs are just slow and can’t tackle. Marist will help with the athleticism but we don’t have an impact player in the pipeline at MIKE. We don’t have an answer at safety or CB either unless it’s a freshman that couldn’t get on the field.

We’re in pretty good shape. This team was mentally exhausted after a whirlwind 30 days. Getting out to such a large lead was probably the worst thing that could happen as they mentally thought the game was over in the first half.

Elston’s lack of play calling experience was obvious as we didn’t back out of the constant blitzing until it hurt us.

The key play of the game was the screen in the second half where #20 got the ankle of Tyree. If he doesn’t, it’s a huge gain and possibly a TD which would have stemmed the tide.

 

[IrishLax]

We’re in pretty good shape. This team was mentally exhausted after a whirlwind 30 days. Getting out to such a large lead was probably the worst thing that could happen as they mentally thought the game was over in the first half.

Elston’s lack of play calling experience was obvious as we didn’t back out of the constant blitzing until it hurt us.

The key play of the game was the screen in the second half where #20 got the ankle of Tyree. If he doesn’t, it’s a huge gain and possibly a TD which would have stemmed the tide.

I think it was Diggs, because I remember thinking “wow Tyree would’ve scored there.”

 

[Irishize]

So what, in your view, is the problem? 28 years could be a coaching issue, actually (e.g., in which of the NY6 games since 1994 did we have better coaching than the other team?)

This sounds to me like a "curse" theory. If not, tell us what exactly the problem is.

It was a coaching issue. Specifically a coach hiring issue. ND is 0-8 in NY6 bowls in the BCS/CFP era. That’s embarrassing but for context look who was coaching:

2000 - Bob Davie (Irish blown off the field by Oregon St)
2005 - Charlie Weis (no answer on defense for tOSU)
2006 - Charlie Weis (competed for one half; embarrassed in 2nd half by LSU)
2012 - Brian Kelly (Bama made ND look like a G5 team)
2015 - Brian Kelly (lose best defensive player in 1st qtr; doesn’t mean ND would’ve won or kept it close but still shows they lacked depth to compete when key players are lost)
2018 - Brian Kelly (ND holds it’s own until their AA CB has to leave the field due to injury; floodgates open immediately; game over)
2020 - Brian Kelly (as solid as Ian Book was, ND was an elite QB away from having a chance to win against an unbeatable Bama)
2021 - Marcus Freeman (2-pt loss in a game that went down to final play. Not excusing the blown lead but wasn’t as ugly as the previous blow outs)

the current administration is responsible for the past five games so if you want to put that on Swarbrick…go ahead…but look at the mess he had to clean up in the wake of Wadsworth & White. Those two gave us Bob Davie, Ty Willingham & Charlie Weis. That ineptitude doesn’t get fixed overnight. Swarbrick tabbed BK who was the best candidate at the time. BK left ND in much better shape than he found it. Now the hope is Swarbrick made an even better hire in Freeman b/c it’s a roll of the dice that could get ND over the hump or set them back to pre-BK. Time will tell & it shouldn’t be decided based on yesterday.

 

[irish4ever]

Linebacker Paul Moala and Punter Jay Bramblett announced last night they are entering the portal - Staff knew Bramblett was leaving, and Moala couldn't stay healthy. So, I'm hoping that this will be the common theme - transfers that have been limited to playing time because they are hurt or lack of playing time. MF needs to start working on those that have eligibility and Feb 2nd.

Moala probably sees the writing on the wall based on battling the injury bug and LB corps that are coming in that his chance of significant playing time at LB wouldn't be there.

 

[irishog77]

BK probably doesn't get ND to have the 1st half performance they had yesterday. BK also probably doesn't get ND to have the 2nd half performance they had yesterday. So the BK/MF argument is probably a wash. There is no clear proof, either way, of which coach wins or loses the game.

Part of me thinks MF may be in way over his head, but I also fell like this: If BK were ND's coach yesterday, he's probably hitting the golf course today. With MF, I bet he's hitting the office and game film and at least trying to get better. So I at least feel like MF will put the work in. But, unfortunately, hard work doesn't always equal success.

 

[NDRock]

Seems like the main reason we win that game with Kelly is MF would still have been the DC. I’d like to hope he would have come up with something to stop 30 straight points from being scored.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Seems like the main reason we win that game with Kelly is MF would still have been the DC. I’d like to hope he would have come up with something to stop 30 straight points from being scored.

MF would be the next DC at Ohio State or HC at Duke were he not our DC. He probably would have tried to stick around long enough to coach our defense in the Fiesta Bowl, but I doubt he'd have been allowed to.

So we probably end up with Elston as our interim DC regardless. You cannot convince me Kelly would have found a way to beat that defense.

 

[BeatSC]

What do you need, Phork? To act like BK was a bafoon is you’re problem.

Today, BK would have had this team ready out of half. We were the better team on the field, but lost. This is not a game we’ve lost under BK in a long time.

What were you talking about again? I like my eggs runny

Has A Kelly coaches team at ND or anywhere given up a 21 point lead and lost? I doubt it. There’s your data point. Add to that ND has more talent across the board albeit not at LB and the secondary.

 

[IrishLax]

Has A Kelly coaches team at ND or anywhere given up a 21 point lead and lost? I doubt it. There’s your data point. Add to that ND has more talent across the board albeit not at LB and the secondary.

He gave up a 3 score lead to Michigan in the second half of 2011 and lost, he gave up an 18 point lead to Florida State in the 4th quarter this year and probably should have lost were it not for missed FG.

 

[GATTACA!]

Does everyone on this board suffer from dementia or something? How can no one remember all of the games Kelly “shit the bed” in? I have a news flash, Kelly was a great coach, but he had some real blunder games as well. Most happened on this, or a bigger stage. Some were Miami/Michigan games where the team wasn’t even prepared, or competitive.

Newsflash, Alabama has lost games where the other team made better halftime adjustments as well. The sky isn’t falling!

 

[BeatSC]

Jesus dude, we lost a glorified exhibition game against a good team in Freeman’s first game As a head coach. Was it frustrating sure but to call him a weis clone? That’s asinine.

It’s the way we lost the game and sat there and watched it happen hoping things would somehow change. Losing 37-35 is not a disgrace but losing the way we did is. MF Elston and Rees should be ashamed. Let it motivate them to learn from it.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Seems like the main reason we win that game with Kelly is MF would still have been the DC. I’d like to hope he would have come up with something to stop 30 straight points from being scored.

Good lord. Freeman was involved in yesterday's defense and added nothing. Do you honestly think Freeman didn't have some input on the defensive calls yesterday? Imagine if what you and others have said is true that Elston was given free reigns. Freeman decided to give Elston (who has never coordinated a defense) game plan, game adjustment, and game calling duties for Freeman's defense scheme for a New Years Bowl game. He only stepped in the fourth quarter? Really? If that is true, then Freeman should be fired for gross incompetence.

The reality is that Freeman was involved and again has been exposed for his inability to adjust. Elston, the linebackers, the secondary,...the list goes on...who are being used as excuses for Freeman's abject failure. If it was a personnel issue, then we would have struggled from the beginning on the defensive side of the ball. OSU adjusted and we either did not or didn't know what to adjust to to counter them...inexperience.

Then on the offensive side of the ball, Tommy apparently thinks he is a co-head coach and decides to call offensive plays without any regards to the defense. Freeman allowing Tommy to call that many pass plays is again indicative of inexperience. For Tommy to think he can win the game by throwing more than 60 times is indicative of his arrogance and his lack of experience. The blind leading the blind.

 

[yankeehater]

I still go back to the game plan......What were they thinking? With Coan throwing the ball 68 times, I almost feel like that was a Rees FU to Kelly and the WR recruits who decommitted. It was like he was trying to prove ND is a throwing team. Too bad we lack the QB, WR's and depth to accomplish it. Once you could see the defense was gassed (mid-2nd quarter) that should have been the clue to change the offensive strategy. Also a gassed defense means you are a step late on the blitzes (yet they kept sending everyone) and not in proper position on the tackles; hence, the ton of missed tackles.

The kids played hard. I don't fault the ones who showed up. This one was all on the coaches and partly on the guys who abandoned their teammates. The bowl games are a part of the season and the final rankings will be affected by that performance when 2021 is put in the record books.

 

[MacIrish75]

Marcus Freeman:

Best loss in an NYC game as Head Coach at ND! It’s all about framing. Details are irrelevant!

 

[yankeehater]

Also this is a young and inexperienced coaching staff and it showed. Hopefully, they learn and grow from it. Time will tell, but chapter 1 was not great.

 

[ACamp1900]

I honestly thought that in game,… are they trying to make a recruiting point about the passing game??? It did just feel odd

 

[NDRock]

Good lord. Freeman was involved in yesterday's defense and added nothing. Do you honestly think Freeman didn't have some input on the defensive calls yesterday? Imagine if what you and others have said is true that Elston was given free reigns. Freeman decided to give Elston (who has never coordinated a defense) game plan, game adjustment, and game calling duties for Freeman's defense scheme for a New Years Bowl game. He only stepped in the fourth quarter? Really? If that is true, then Freeman should be fired for gross incompetence.

The reality is that Freeman was involved and again has been exposed for his inability to adjust. Elston, the linebackers, the secondary,...the list goes on...who are being used as excuses for Freeman's abject failure. If it was a personnel issue, then we would have struggled from the beginning on the defensive side of the ball. OSU adjusted and we either did not or didn't know what to adjust to to counter them...inexperience.

Then on the offensive side of the ball, Tommy apparently thinks he is a co-head coach and decides to call offensive plays without any regards to the defense. Freeman allowing Tommy to call that many pass plays is again indicative of inexperience. For Tommy to think he can win the game by throwing more than 60 times is indicative of his arrogance and his lack of experience. The blind leading the blind.

It was obvious that Freeman was not calling the defense. Was he involved? I’m sure. That doesn’t negate the fact that that was a change from the regular season. How much of an impact it was? None of us knows. Well, except you. You seem to know.