Post Game Observations Oklahoma State

[IrishSpartan]

People need to calm down. Who cares what would have happened if Kelly coached, it would be the same result.

• We needed to run the ball to at least give the defense a breath.
• Linebacker and Safety play was abysmal.
• Clarence Lewis looked like a freshman in his first college game.
• Something was off with the DLine. Possibly the whole line changes really messed things up.

Freeman will take this game to heart and learn. I believe his results next year will be completely different with a spring/summer under his belt and a complete staff.

Styles looked great and Austin clearly needs to return for another year he is not ready technique wise.

 

[NEIIrish]

The tackling on defense was our main problem imo. The offense needed to try to establish a run game at some point in the second half too. I think some Buchner might’ve helped a little. I didn’t like to see the loss but a silver lining to all of this is mf just got a reminder that this isn’t going to be easy and based off what kind of person I think he is I’ll bet he is going to learn a ton from this.

 

[Greenore]

My collection of thoughts.

1. What a great season, exceeded expectations and should end solidly in the top 10. Not bad at all for a rebuilding year.

2. Hate losing that game but for a glorified exhibition that was an exciting watch at least. I thought we would find magic late but it wasn't meant to be. Oh well.

3. The good: A. I think our Oline will be good next year and dominant the year after. Nice parting gift from Mr. Quinn, happy trails!
B. Styles is who we thought he was! Crown him dammit!
C. I can haz a commitment from a top 50 safety for next year? And the current commits chirping about better things ahead? Yes please.
D. Holes, there be holes! Linebackers not very athletic? Good news! Need another RB with some speed? Awesome! Continue building DL depth? Why not! Add a potential lock down corner from the best area in the country? You got it!

4. The bad: A. Flat ran out of gas. Injuries, attrition, not playing for a decade (dates approximate) all added up to a dead team in the second half. If only we had one more elite DB and RB....
B. I hesitate to even put this as bad because I think it's a great starting point, but has to go somewhere. MF has a roster he didn't build playing against a coach that has been his conferences coach of the year a couple of times that has nearly coached for more years since pronouncing he was a man than our HC and OC combined and we went toe to toe with him. Were they an inch away from potentially crashing the playoffs? Yes indeedy and we gave them all they wanted. The way we lost hurt but I think it was a strong debut, just bad because...well.....we lost. I am 100% confident that we will learn from it and be better for it.
C. Holes, there be holes! If all the WRs come back, and we get a portal guy, and we sign another player.....no sugar coating it. That room needs help. Safeties is pretty close but maybe we can paper over that if Foskey comes back.


5. The ugly: Message board meltdowns, I'm embarrassed for all the embarrassment and sore from laughing at all the jokes that we are/were/continue to be etc., etc., etc. Love you guys and the entertainment you bring even though I'm honestly not sure how some posters function at life.

6. On to Ohio State (speaking of an embarrassing half of football, amiright?!?!?!?!)

Post of the Year?

Cheers Brothers and Go Irish!!

 

[Irish2155]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this. I don't think the issue was having people "ready to play," per se. They were clearly ready to play to start the game, and one of the complaints about Kelly teams has always been slow starting.

Being "ready to play" coming out of half is about adjustments not emotion/energy. What adjustments was Kelly going to hypothetically make? The offense was crushing them, you're not going to change anything there. Defense was doing OK besides that drive before halftime.

Kelly wasn't going to magically make our three ILBs become athletic. He wasn't going to make Hamilton un-declare. He wasn't going to do something about Clarence Lewis. I think the biggest issue was that with Freeman not coaching the defense is that Elston was unprepared to do something to counteract their QB run game or bench Clarence Lewis. It's clear to me -- with the power of hindsight -- that ND's only chance to win that game was to get the ILBs off the field and get as much speed out there as possible. And maybe bench Lewis for Bracy at corner. I don't see how Kelly helps with any of that. The issue wasn't preparedness/mental errors/lack of discipline/etc. It was a handful of really bad, really slow defenders getting picked on.

Correct, we’re clearly not seeing eye to eye. But at least you’re leaning toward common sense

When has BK gave up a 21 point lead? Who, regardless of coach, gives up a 21 point lead?

MF does. Hope this gets good but I’m leaning more Chuck Wise after today

 

[FWIrish4]

Absolutely brutal way to end a great season. Just an all-time meltdown.

For those that think Rees/offense didn’t make any adjustments, you’re just flat out wrong. The play calling was still pretty good in the 2nd half even with the lack of points. Two turnovers in OSU territory and the long TD throw to Styles that was literally an inch out of reach cost us points. Execution on offense in the 2nd half killed momentum, not Rees’ play calling. Remember we were playing the #2 defense without any running threat at QB.

On defense, inexcusable we still have 2 min drive issues before the end of first halves. Asking Jack Kiser to run with a receiver out of the slot is absurd. It happened in the Cincinnati game as well. I have no idea why we did not 1) bracket Tay Martin on critical downs and 2) help Clarence Lewis. They picked on him over and over again and we did nothing to help him.

Absolutely ecstatic for the future of the offense with all the young talent. We find some DB solutions in the portal and I won’t be concerned about the defense next year.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Don't think Kelly would've gotten us 28 first half points. He would've leaned on the run more and not used Tyree the way Rees (Coan) did to get behind the all-out blitz for that TD. Kelly would've kept him into block. Kelly would've been more conservative and not as aggressive...he'd lean on manufacturing points probably like 17 first half points.

Now, I do think Kelly would've manufactured us more 2nd half points. Probably in the 10-17 range. Maybe he would've won? Maybe not?

Coan played more than well enough to win. I think, in the second half, we should atleast attempted to run the ball some more. At least mix it in. Two turnovers inside the OSU 35 (INT and fumble) cost us the game from the offensive angle.

I thought Tommy called a pretty good game. With HH coaching the line next season and our RBs/WRs...and God willing Buchner develops...we'll be pretty good.

Defense was a disaster. I was worried even up 28-7 that we had no run game. Hard to win that way. Also, part of me thinks that the 28-7 lead hurt the team. They got complacent or something and could never get that edge back. But schematically, No adjustment at all. The secondary looked confused. The pressure in the second half was predictable and no one could tackle.

Also, Lewis should've been pulled or given help. I don't understand how no changes were made. Elston didn't do well in his DC audition. Freeman should've taken the wheel on the defense well before he did late in the 4th. Even early in the season, Freeman wasn't the sharpest with in-game adjusting. Not like Lea. He'll have some growing pains but I'm confident he'll figure it out. He needs to bring in a experienced DC.

Looks like Freeman is clearing house. Word is Del is gone. HH is on his way back. I like that he's being decisive. The ceiling is very high for Freeman as a coach but there's going to be a learning curve. How he responds and how he builds his staff will determine how high he can go.

Go Irish


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[Irish2155]

It’s one thing to get your ass rammed by Saban. It’s another to give up a 3 score lead to Okie St

 

[FWIrish4]

Correct, we’re clearly not seeing eye to eye. But at least you’re leaning toward common sense

When has BK gave up a 21 point lead? Who, regardless of coach, gives up a 21 point lead?

MF does. Hope this gets good but I’m leaning more Chuck Wise after today

Do you not remember the Florida State game literally this year? I believe Kelly was the head coach for that game.

Also, it’s one game and he’s been head coach for literally a month. He had to fly across the entire country to hold the recruiting class together and they don’t have a full coaching staff to prepare with and the best players on offense and defense opted out. There’s so much that goes into this.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Making matters worse.... Ohio St played a terrible first half and now are going to win this FUCKING game

 

[tommyIRISH23]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this. I don't think the issue was having people "ready to play," per se. They were clearly ready to play to start the game, and one of the complaints about Kelly teams has always been slow starting.

Being "ready to play" coming out of half is about adjustments not emotion/energy. What adjustments was Kelly going to hypothetically make? The offense was crushing them, you're not going to change anything there. Defense was doing OK besides that drive before halftime.

Kelly wasn't going to magically make our three ILBs become athletic. He wasn't going to make Hamilton un-declare. He wasn't going to do something about Clarence Lewis. I think the biggest issue was that with Freeman not coaching the defense is that Elston was unprepared to do something to counteract their QB run game or bench Clarence Lewis. It's clear to me -- with the power of hindsight -- that ND's only chance to win that game was to get the ILBs off the field and get as much speed out there as possible. And maybe bench Lewis for Bracy at corner. I don't see how Kelly helps with any of that. The issue wasn't preparedness/mental errors/lack of discipline/etc. It was a handful of really bad, really slow defenders getting picked on.

I agree for the most part. But, like you mentioned, Elston was unprepared and didn't adjust at all. I think if Freeman were more involved in the scheme prep he wouldve dialed up something to counter what OSU adjusted into. I actually think Freeman gave Elston way too long of a leash but Freeman does tend to be a little too patient in his adjustment.

Also, from a coaching perspective, early in the Bama vs Cinci game, Cinci had Bamas defense on the ropes at some point in the beginning of the game. Saban had atleast 1 well timed timeout to regroup and settle his team down. I was hoping Freeman would've done that a few times in the game to disrupt OSU momentum and give the staff time to come up with a plan.

He'll learn. I'm still pretty confident in him


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[IrishLax]

Correct, we’re clearly not seeing eye to eye. But at least you’re leaning toward common sense

When has BK gave up a 21 point lead? Who, regardless of coach, gives up a 21 point lead?

MF does. Hope this gets good but I’m leaning more Chuck Wise after today

Not 21, but he blew an 18 point lead in the 4th quarter to a horrible Florida State team and got lucky to win in OT. And he blew a three score lead in the second half at Michigan in 2011. Hardly perfect in protecting leads. But I do think that Freeman showed the following flaws:
1. Not being willing to take the wheel after the 1st second half TD for Oklahoma State. Elston was clearly lost at that point.
2. Not going aggressive after giving up points to Oklahoma State right before halftime. Made zero sense to take a knee there.
3. Not being more active working the refs about the blatant holding/PI that Oklahoma State was getting away with. I think in general, he needed to be more active and engaged with the defense once it became clear they were in deep water.

I blame Elston the most of any coach, and I blame Freeman for empowering him instead of calling the game himself. But the biggest blame is on guys like White/Bauer/Bertrand/Lewis/Brown being glorified traffic cones out there instead of football players who can run and cover and tackle.

 

[irish o'phile]

This scheme seems to have real issues with mobile QBs. They repeatedly killed ND this year. Also, the CB play killed ND.

 

[Irish2155]

Do you not remember the Florida State game literally this year? I believe Kelly was the head coach for that game.

Also, it’s one game and he’s been head coach for literally a month. He had to fly across the entire country to hold the recruiting class together and they don’t have a full coaching staff to prepare with and the best players on offense and defense opted out. There’s so much that goes into this.

Absolutely, I was on Martha’s Vineyard.

game won. Not pretty but another W. Today we got beat, after dominating for a half.

Im not here to bag on Coach Freeman, at all. But today just can’t ever, ever happen. If you can’t agree with that, then fuck off

 

[Whiskeyjack]

"Most yardage allowed by Notre Dame since 2006" and people are trying to blame Rees.

Other fun facts from /r/cfb:

• ND is 49-1* when scoring at least three offensive TDs going back to the beginning of the 2017 season;
• ND is 79-1* when leading by 21+ points.

*2022 Fiesta Bowl

 

[Sea Turtle]

It’s one thing to get your ass rammed by Saban. It’s another to give up a 3 score lead to Okie St

Yeah, this loss is just embarrassing and unacceptable. We keep complaining about getting these great, loaded teams in these games and now we lose in this fashion to a good but certainly beatable opponent. We are FAR more talented than them. Anyone who isn't furious with this outcome just isn't a fan.

 

[Riddickulous]

Freshman LBs and a (hopefully) healthy Marist Liufau will give LB a badly needed boost.

 

[ACamp1900]

Yeah, this loss is just embarrassing and unacceptable. We keep complaining about getting these great, loaded teams in these games and now we lose in this fashion to a good but certainly beatable opponent. We are FAR more talented than them. Anyone who isn't furious with this outcome just isn't a fan.

I mean move on and all but yeah that was a horrid way to end the year and start the Freeman era, it was jarring and no one should be laughing it off. The flip is spend time with family and act like you don’t care because nothing can be done about it. Beyond that I’m spent,…

 

[chicago51]

You drunk?

if BK was coaching tonight then we’d be victorious. Why is that so hard for some to concept?

2019 when Andy Reid and the Chiefs scored 31 second half points after getting shut out in the first half. It wasn't because Bill Bellichek couldn't make adjustments.

It was that Bellichek had a really good plan going in. That was the best Bellichek could do. Once Andy Reid sorted through it and figured it out the Chiefs offense was just better than New England's defense.

I'm not that is what happened this game. But sometimes if you do a great job in your opponent scouting and your preparation, what you start with is the best you got.

I'm not a D1 coach but I've coached high school ball / 8th grades these days because of my job. Practice and initial gameplan are more important than what you do at halftime. In my experience good halftime adjustments work best when you were the better team but got out coached in the initial game plan.

By all means this staff probably done better with in game coaching. But I think a lot of this was OkSt had better fundamentals (which to be fair is coaching but not game day coaching) and was just better at executing and that was covered up somewhat early by ND having a good initial game plan.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Freshman LBs and a (hopefully) healthy Marist Liufau will give LB a badly needed boost.

We have worst LBs of all teams in NY6 bowls.

 

[ThePiombino]

I mean move on and all but yeah that was a horrid way to end the year and start the Freeman era, it was jarring and no one should be laughing it off. The flip is spend time with family and act like you don’t care because nothing can be done about it. Beyond that I’m spent,…

Excellent take, and I'm with you, but to be fair the year started that way. Didn't end that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[bobbyok1]

Not 21, but he blew an 18 point lead in the 4th quarter to a horrible Florida State team and got lucky to win in OT. And he blew a three score lead in the second half at Michigan in 2011. Hardly perfect in protecting leads. But I do think that Freeman showed the following flaws:
1. Not being willing to take the wheel after the 1st second half TD for Oklahoma State. Elston was clearly lost at that point.
2. Not going aggressive after giving up points to Oklahoma State right before halftime. Made zero sense to take a knee there.
3. Not being more active working the refs about the blatant holding/PI that Oklahoma State was getting away with. I think in general, he needed to be more active and engaged with the defense once it became clear they were in deep water.

I blame Elston the most of any coach, and I blame Freeman for empowering him instead of calling the game himself. But the biggest blame is on guys like White/Bauer/Bertrand/Lewis/Brown being glorified traffic cones out there instead of football players who can run and cover and tackle.

Totally agree here. Elston laid a HUGE egg in running D. Freeman an even bigger one, only because he is THE guy. He HAS to take over the D play calling once its 28-21. I give him a little slack on the halftime knee thing, but not much.

Also agree Freeman needs to learn how to be more of a leader with refs. My biggest concern about Freeman going in was his "niceness" or at least the application of being too nice leading him to be quiet when he needs to lead. I only say that because Freeman and I have similar personalities, and I've had to learn how to lead more vocally. He didn't seem ready to do that yet. Hopefully this loss will motivate him to push past those internal barriers if indeed this is a limitation of his.

 

[ACamp1900]

Excellent take, and I'm with you, but to be fair the year started that way. Didn't end that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I said I was spent!!!!!!!! Lol

 

[Irish2155]

This was not a matter of being the worst team on the field. Saban got us then

This was 100% being out coached. And it’s so obvious given the halftime results. We had the better team. 100% Freeman

 

[rtrn2glory]

Freshman LBs and a (hopefully) healthy Marist Liufau will give LB a badly needed boost.

You mean freshmen linebackers with zero game experience?

 

[chicago51]

I agree for the most part. But, like you mentioned, Elston was unprepared and didn't adjust at all. I think if Freeman were more involved in the scheme prep he wouldve dialed up something to counter what OSU adjusted into. I actually think Freeman gave Elston way too long of a leash but Freeman does tend to be a little too patient in his adjustment.

Also, from a coaching perspective, early in the Bama vs Cinci game, Cinci had Bamas defense on the ropes at some point in the beginning of the game. Saban had atleast 1 well timed timeout to regroup and settle his team down. I was hoping Freeman would've done that a few times in the game to disrupt OSU momentum and give the staff time to come up with a plan.

He'll learn. I'm still pretty confident in him


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To be fair Freeman struggled with mobile QBs all season and shut everyone else down.

Freeman in the press conference he was with the defense every game plan / scout team period. He only spent time with O during good on good periods early on in the bowl prep.

Freeman also said post game they ran 10 personal which they didn't do during the season much and weren't prepared for. Caught them off guard. So I don't think this was Freeman not being involved in the preparation .

This was an issue all season .

 

[phork]

You drunk?

if BK was coaching tonight then we’d be victorious. Why is that so hard for some to concept?

You keep saying this shit but back up your opinion, which you haven't.

 

[AKRowdy]

Totally agree here. Elston laid a HUGE egg in running D. Freeman an even bigger one, only because he is THE guy. He HAS to take over the D play calling once its 28-21. I give him a little slack on the halftime knee thing, but not much.

Also agree Freeman needs to learn how to be more of a leader with refs. My biggest concern about Freeman going in was his "niceness" or at least the application of being too nice leading him to be quiet when he needs to lead. I only say that because Freeman and I have similar personalities, and I've had to learn how to lead more vocally. He didn't seem ready to do that yet. Hopefully this loss will motivate him to push past those internal barriers if indeed this is a limitation of his.

This. Growing as a coach. Believe he was trying too hard to be the leader and let his coaches make the calls. This is why it’ll be critical to get a good DC. Will be interesting to see how our WRs improve with a better WR coach.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

He did. I would be interested in seeing him at left guard. That side could be devastating.

If Fisher, who has the makings of a 1st round pick at tackle is moved to guard, he should transfer.

 

[T-Boone]

Other fun facts from /r/cfb:

• ND is 49-1* when scoring at least three offensive TDs going back to the beginning of the 2017 season;
• ND is 79-1* when leading by 21+ points.

*2022 Fiesta Bowl

That sucks but it also felt to me more like we were lucky to be up by 21 than an outright meltdown.
We were one dimensional and OSU only needed to realise how bad the DBs are for it to turn out how it did.

 

[Irish2155]

You keep saying this shit but back up your opinion, which you haven't.

What do you need, Phork? To act like BK was a bafoon is you’re problem.

Today, BK would have had this team ready out of half. We were the better team on the field, but lost. This is not a game we’ve lost under BK in a long time.

What were you talking about again? I like my eggs runny