Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352
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Cackalacky

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I can never understand this position.

Isn't that why people fight in the first place?

That is the crux of it for me. What's the problem? Why all the fighting? If people are so certain of their status (ie there is another life after this one) then why? What is the impetus to dominate and convert others that don't share the same beliefs? Do they really not believe and suffer from severe dissonance?

Oh and says the guy battling a bear ;)
 
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That is the crux of it for me. What's the problem? Why all the fighting? If people are so certain of their status (ie there is another life after this one) then why? What is the impetus to dominate and convert others that don't share the same beliefs? Do they really not believe and suffer from severe dissonance?

Oh and says the guy battling a bear ;)

Im a real man so I fight bears with my hands =)

But Im saying, in my mind, I see people fighting because they know this is their one shot on Earth.

If you get beaten up and your land taken then you probably aint getting it back.
 
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Cackalacky

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Im a real man so I fight bears with my hands =)

But Im saying, in my mind, I see people fighting because they know this is their one shot on Earth.

If you get beaten up and your land taken then you probably aint getting it back.

Right. Also there are resources to be gained. That is what people and animals do. We need to justify it though. It's what separates us from other animals.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Thought Cacky and OMM might be interested in this. From The Economist:

Bx8p25iIUAAEF8u.png
 
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Cackalacky

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That figure is damn depressing. The Montreal protocol was to ban the production and use of CFCs which it was very effective at doing, and CO2 is a byproduct/component of that production. Just imagine if we actually decided to DO anything about carbon output into the atmosphere. The use of CFCs is now just beginning to peter out. None of those other policies listed embrace what needs to be done which is a cradle to grave philosophy and net neutral or positive reduction. Hydro electric is the best IMO but requires to much land and water and nuclear has it's quite obvious risks.

I will post a bit (in a little while) on the concept of mass balance and how we are losing that fight across the globe as we destroy our naturally evolved carbon sinks in vegetation and the oceans.

Rack'em- that figure was for co2 not methane. You are safe to keep shitting your pants.
 
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Cackalacky

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So, to get back to how to view the problem of anthropogenic CO2 it is very convenient and ultimately helpful to view it as amass balance problem.

Mass Balance
A mass balance, also called a material balance, is an application of conservation of mass to the analysis of physical systems. By accounting for material entering and leaving a system, mass flows can be identified which might have been unknown, or difficult to measure without this technique. The exact conservation law used in the analysis of the system depends on the context of the problem, but all revolve around mass conservation, i.e. that matter cannot disappear or be created spontaneously. In environmental monitoring the term budget calculations is used to describe mass balance equations where they are used to evaluate the monitoring data (comparing input and output, etc.) In biology the dynamic energy budget theory for metabolic organization makes explicit use of mass and energy balances.

General form of the equation:
While it can become a more substantial differential equation used in modeling, it can be simplified in layman’s terms as:
Input + Generation = Output + Accumulation + Consumption

Current naturally evolved sinks and cylcing whithout the input of humans
1024px-Carbon_cycle.jpg


Carbon pools in the major reservoirs on earth.

Pool Quantity (gigatons)
Atmosphere 720

Oceans (total) 38,400
  1. Total inorganic 37,400
  2. Total organic 1,000
  3. Surface layer 670
  4. Deep layer 36,730

Lithosphere
  1. Sedimentary carbonates > 60,000,000
  2. Kerogens 15,000,000
  3. Terrestrial biosphere (total) 2,000
  4. Living biomass 600 - 1,000
  5. Dead biomass 1,200
  6. Aquatic biosphere 1 - 2
Fossil fuels (total) 4,130
  1. Coal 3,510
  2. Oil 230
  3. Gas 140
  4. Other (peat) 250

Close ties to Atmospheric CO2 and Oceanic uptake
Carnegie Department of Global Ecology
Conclusion When these data are used in combination with indicators of ocean carbonate mineral saturation to force carbon cycle models, the maximum imbalance between the supply and uptake of CO2 is 1–2% during the late Pleistocene. This long-term balance holds despite glacial–interglacial variations on shorter timescales. Our results provide support for a weathering feedback driven by atmospheric CO2 concentrations that maintains the observed fine mass balance.
Zeebe_Caldeira.jpg


So what we have now is that humans are disrupting the naturally evolved carbon cycle balance. We are extracting stored carbon from the lithosphere (non-reactive and inert), and converting it to atmospheric CO2 which becomes reactive and forms a positive feedback loop, leading to further disruption of the normal carbon cycle.

Regarding the mass balance equation relative to atmospheric CO2, humans are increasing "Input" and "Generation" terms while simultaneously decreasing the "Output" and "Consumption" terms through deforestation (listed in the biosphere sink) and disruption of the Ocean's ability to store carbon (Lithosphere sinks). This simply leads to an increase in the "Accumulation" term as the normal balance is disrupted and the natural storage sinks are being removed.

This is exactly what is occurring as predicted by numerous models and what we see is an undeniable increase in atmospheric CO2 because it physically and chemically is being accumulated and has nowhere to go.

One way to correct this is to develop, adopt, and promote activities that result in a negative "Accumulation" term. These include reducing carbon footprints of individuals, companies, and resources used, alternative net neutral or positive energy sources, sequestration of atmospheric CO2 among others.
 

phgreek

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Conversely what part of Christianity reflects the axiom... "knock it off or we will kill you?" Is that not a perversion of Christianity? Who is correct in deciding who is justified in doing what each other is claiming if they are compelled by their religion?

The problem is that Phil, and apparently you, like him, cannot understand that this opinion is just as fundamentalist as what is being argued against. Its actually the same thing.

You Missed my point...I DON"T go around trying to convert anyone...I DON'T think that convert or die fights are the answer...I did say Radical Islam's approach is unacceptable, and they need to decide if killing folks for faith-based reasons is something Muhammad preached or it is a perversion...either way stop killing folks, and threatening them because of how they believe...or they should die. Has nothing to do with my faith and everyhting to do with liberty/justice and common fvcking decency.

It is not the same thing...I practice my faith in a way that does not threaten anyone...I am talking about defense of the right for anyone to peacefully practice their faith...and to kill those who would kill in the name of their faith. If YOU think thats the same thing...YOU need to rethink things...not me pal.

Edit: and way to zero in on one statement and take it out of context...acceptable form of religion is one that does not promote killing people
...far cry from me saying knock it off or die to what amounts to murderers...JFC no wander we are such lambs...
 
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Cackalacky

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You Missed my point...I DON"T go around trying to convert anyone...I DON'T think that convert or die fights are the answer...I did say Radical Islam's approach is unacceptable, and they need to decide if killing folks for faith-based reasons is something Muhammad preached or it is a perversion...either way stop killing folks, and threatening them because of how they believe...or they should die. Has nothing to do with my faith and everyhting to do with liberty/justice and common fvcking decency.

It is not the same thing...I practice my faith in a way that does not threaten anyone...I am talking about defense of the right for anyone to peacefully practice their faith...and to kill those who would kill in the name of their faith. If YOU think thats the same thing...YOU need to rethink things...not me pal.

Phil Robertson who you were initially commenting on believes in a theocratic government that is no different than any other theocracy. You agreed with his point that we as a Christian nation would be justified in killingTHEM in order to keep THEM from killing others. What I posted and subsequently I gathered from Whiskeyjack's post, is that the only thing that is different/same is the justification. So I have thought about it, a lot in my life actually. Phil's solution, which you seemed to agree with is the same solution as what ISIS is doing, just with a justification via God, through a government, not a terrorist group, if such distinctions really exist.
 
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phgreek

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Phil Robertson who you were initially commenting on believes in a theocratic government that is no different than any other theocracy. You agreed with his point that we as a Christian nation would be justified in killingTHEM in order to keep THEM from killing others. What I posted and subsequently I gathered from Whiskeyjack's post, is that the only thing that is different/same is the justification. So I have thought about it, a lot in my life actually. Phil's solution, which you seemed to agree with is the same solution as what ISIS is doing, just with a justification via God, through a government, not a terrorist group, if such distinctions really exist.

Nope...we as Human beings would be justified in killing killers to prevent them from killing us and others...not because any faith is superior to another...but because self preservation and empathy supersedes such issues...IN MY OPINION. You can tangle the origins of "justice" with faith...but IN MY OPINION, it is alot easier than that. We as humans have two things hard-wired...self preservation, and Empathy...They cause us to respond to threats upon ourselves and others...AAAnd they cause us to question the value of those (ie judge) who short circuit their hard wiring (for whatever reason)...acceptable membership to humanity kinda starts with not killing folks who do not pose a threat to your mortal temporal self...thus acceptable faith practice lives in there...thats it! Acceptable form of faith ... thats the meaning. VERY simple, straight forward. My point with Phil's commentary...we both arrive at the point where these guys are not welcome here on planet earth, as he would say. His rationale and approach are different, but the bad guys gotta go...if you suffer from relativism...not my problem.

Look...I'm ok that you all feel so strongly about faith hate etc. Most of what is written is pretty interesting, and much of which falls in the category of shit I once had to know...yay for higher education...but taking me out of context and lecturing me is just bullshit...no matter how many words are used to argue this...that is all.
 
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Cackalacky

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That's fine.... Just do me a favor and go back and read my posts in between the those responding directly to you and tell me if I am lecturing or merely asking questions.
 

BobD

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wvVPdyYeaQU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

BobD

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Looks like there are gonna be some shake ups. I like it.

Some of the races look like they won't be decided right away. Run offs
 
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johnnycando

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Bump.

How has Obamacare affected you?

I recently left a company that had paid upfront to prevent their workers from being affected. They paid 100% the insurance premium for family also.

I left for a better position up the totem pole.

Crazy, but I went from making $125K to not even close to that and I'm paying my family's insurance premium.

But I'm home with my family a LOT more now.

My thoughts are, that if you're in a line of work or working for a predatory company and the service you provide is in high demand, you're immune,
 
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pkt77242

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Bump.

How has Obamacare affected you?

I recently left a company that had paid upfront to prevent their workers from being affected. They paid 100% the insurance premium for family also.

I left for a better position up the totem pole.

Crazy, but I went from making $125K to not even close to that and I'm paying my family's insurance premium.

But I'm home with my family a LOT more now.

My thoughts are, that if you're in a line of work or working for a predatory company and the service you provide is in high demand, you're immune,

I don't think that the ACA caused higher premiums, deductibles, etc.

During the downturn in the economy many companies started foisting a larger percent of the cost of healthcare onto employees as a way to shift costs off their books and onto employees.

Also a smaller percentage of companies may have used the bad press of the ACA to blame it for premium hikes as a way to make themselves not look bad for the increases.

People are blaming the ACA when they should be blaming their company.

(Not to say that the ACA is perfect or didn't have some unintended consequences).
 

BobD

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Bump.

How has Obamacare affected you?

I recently left a company that had paid upfront to prevent their workers from being affected. They paid 100% the insurance premium for family also.

I left for a better position up the totem pole.

Crazy, but I went from making $125K to not even close to that and I'm paying my family's insurance premium.

But I'm home with my family a LOT more now.

My thoughts are, that if you're in a line of work or working for a predatory company and the service you provide is in high demand, you're immune,

My healthcare costs have gone up, but no more than they were increasing yearly prior to Obamacare.
 

BobD

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Not that anyone asked but.....this is where I stand.

Both parties suck.

Term limits.

Maximum Expenditures on campaigns.

Flat tax.

Education for all. Even illegals because I'd rather change the world with a book than a gun.

Healthcare available (not mandatory) for all.

Drug testing and work for welfare.

Other people's religion, sexuality, personal choices as long as they don't harm others is nobody else's business.

Legalize pot and treat it like liquor.

Warehousing criminals is like breeding roaches.

Hold parents accountable, teachers aren't babysitters. If your son is a freak, it IS your fault.

Continue to modernize our military.

We are destroying our planet and need much tougher laws on pollution.
 

EddytoNow

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Bump.

How has Obamacare affected you?

I recently left a company that had paid upfront to prevent their workers from being affected. They paid 100% the insurance premium for family also.

I left for a better position up the totem pole.

Crazy, but I went from making $125K to not even close to that and I'm paying my family's insurance premium.

But I'm home with my family a LOT more now.

My thoughts are, that if you're in a line of work or working for a predatory company and the service you provide is in high demand, you're immune,

Since I work for an employer that provides healthcare as one of my benefits, the Affordable Care Act hasn't affected me at all. But the main problem isn't the Affordable Care Act. It was the failure of the politicians of both parties to make it a single payer plan to control costs. The private market is fueling any higher costs. Private health insurers see the ACA as a cash cow to be milked for anything they can get.

I also wonder why oppenents of the Affordable Care Act insist on calling it Obamacare. Their insistence on calling it that only reveals their negativity towards the president. They were successful in obstructing everything else that President Obama tried to accomplish. Their failure to block the Affordable Care Act has left them bitter. This program to help the needy obtain healthcare is here to stay. Instead of monthly attempts to undermine the act, the Republican party should be offering bills to improve its weaknesses.
 

Wild Bill

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Bump.

How has Obamacare affected you?

I recently left a company that had paid upfront to prevent their workers from being affected. They paid 100% the insurance premium for family also.

I left for a better position up the totem pole.

Crazy, but I went from making $125K to not even close to that and I'm paying my family's insurance premium.

But I'm home with my family a LOT more now.

My thoughts are, that if you're in a line of work or working for a predatory company and the service you provide is in high demand, you're immune,

Huge increase to my premium. I pay $530/month plus $36/month for dental. My employer pays nothing so it's a giant kick in the dick.

I checked bc/bs prices post aca. It's a bit cheaper to buy it on my own but I get a tax deduction if I buy it through my employer, so it pretty much evens out.

Co-pays are more expensive now but they really don't affect me bc I rarely go to the doc.
 

phgreek

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Speaking of the ACA...any thoughts on the impact of the MIT Prof. articulating what we all kinda ssumed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G790p0LcgbI

I appreciate his honesty, but he is a pompous dickhead just like all the fvck sticks who decided Americans don't know what they want/need, so lying and deceit substitute for outreach...ya know, the "work" part of legislating. And for all of you clamoring about how well thought out this ACA was...why would you have to engage in systematic lying...and since it had a financial implication...I believe thats FRAUD...SMH.

As for the impact/fallout...not sure the water can get hotter for the President and his admin. So they'll manufacture some bullshit to try and distract from yet another layer of the onion being peeled back...however I find great joy in seeing the numbers willfully mislead are dwindling...I just hope the President has enough sense to let some adults come turn his wish into a functioning healthcare system...as for the MIT prof., I worry some angry dude puts a .223 through his skull...you just can't perpetrate this kind of shit and be proud of it....
 

IrishinSyria

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Speaking of the ACA...any thoughts on the impact of the MIT Prof. articulating what we all kinda ssumed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G790p0LcgbI

I appreciate his honesty, but he is a pompous dickhead just like all the fvck sticks who decided Americans don't know what they want/need, so lying and deceit substitute for outreach...ya know, the "work" part of legislating. And for all of you clamoring about how well thought out this ACA was...why would you have to engage in systematic lying...and since it had a financial implication...I believe thats FRAUD...SMH.

As for the impact/fallout...not sure the water can get hotter for the President and his admin. So they'll manufacture some bullshit to try and distract from yet another layer of the onion being peeled back...however I find great joy in seeing the numbers willfully mislead are dwindling...I just hope the President has enough sense to let some adults come turn his wish into a functioning healthcare system...as for the MIT prof., I worry some angry dude puts a .223 through his skull...you just can't perpetrate this kind of shit and be proud of it....

That's literally the least damning video I've ever seen. Technocrats going to technocrat.

Granted, the guy has 0 tact, but all he did was articulate the purpose of the individual mandate: young people have to buy in or else the costs spiral out of control. Obviously, insurers aren't going to agree to a system (or be able to survive as companies) where they have to provide a) affordable insurance to b) anybody.

Insurance is always a wealth transfer. It was under the old system, and it is under the ACA. The main difference is that under the old system, insurance companies got the profits they needed to operate by dropping coverage of the people who needed insurance the most and thus would be most expensive to cover. Under the ACA, they lose that ability but get to insure more young people who are relatively cheap to cover.

I seriously doubt anybody is actually surprised by the content of what he said. But I fully expect people to play up the arrogant way he said it.

ETA: I guarantee you every single member of both houses understood the logic behind the individual mandate. It wasn't framed the way it was to try to fool them, but to try to give them a fig leaf of political cover. Obviously, that didn't work so well.
 
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phgreek

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That's literally the least damning video I've ever seen. Technocrats going to technocrat.

Trey Gowdy seems to be seeing it differently...but I don't see anyone taking this up seriously...although they should.

Granted, the guy has 0 tact, but all he did was articulate the purpose of the individual mandate: young people have to buy in or else the costs spiral out of control. Obviously, insurers aren't going to agree to a system (or be able to survive as companies) where they have to provide a) affordable insurance to b) anybody.

...I had to check the video link...thought I screwed up after your first statement and then the one directly above...

All he did was articulate the purpose of the mandate...sure, yup, you bet. To me it was more an admission to breaking the law...twice. He willfully mislead federal agents charged with budgetary drills (CBO) and half of Congress when he sat with Congress to craft the ACA. Even if EVERYONE now suspects, or knew at some point he was lying...HE BROKE THE LAW by intending to provide false or misleading documents and providing false and misleading testimony...who cares if anyone believed him...its all a matter of record. As well, he should be debarred from Federal work, as he did all of this while contracted to provide support to the Federal Government. Even a pompous asshat like this knows you can't intentionally provide misleading information to the Federal Government, EVEN if your customer asks you to...aren't you at least curious why he thinks he's so legally bullet proof?


Insurance is always a wealth transfer. It was under the old system, and it is under the ACA. The main difference is that under the old system, insurance companies got the profits they needed to operate by dropping coverage of the people who needed insurance the most and thus would be most expensive to cover. Under the ACA, they lose that ability but get to insure more young people who are relatively cheap to cover.

Sounds good when you say it fast...but the additional wealth transfer will largely be for no appreciable benefit when weighed in totality. The law does not result in "affordable" care (seemingly defined by healthcare 2500 bucks cheaper, and real experiences of people seeking insurance on the exchange). The "Care" part is arguable in a quality of care discussion, as well as increasing numbers cared for. I believe it will not end up covering MORE people who wanted coverage, just some who didn't have coverage when all of this started. It will have put at least as many people in the unenviable position of once having been covered, but now not because 1) they can't afford it, and pay a fine...2) access to medical professionals is impacted (your parents tried to use Medicare lately?) such that scarcity of resources = little to no coverage. Now add in the fact that a new government agency was created to oversee this, not to mention the IRS resources in manpower and new software development. Billions of additional recurring costs. However, proponents of ACA get to conveniently ignore those costs...When you take an honest stab at Total lifecycle cost of ACA, it is frightening. So additional cost...its there, its real...and its big. The ACA people see already costs more...not 2500 bucks less, and thats without accounting for the aforementioned federal admin costs. So it really fails to do anything but transfer wealth to create more government, breaks even on covering people (I'm being generous here I think), and hammers the shit out of some people. This leaves the logical question then...why keep doing it this way?

I seriously doubt anybody is actually surprised by the content of what he said. But I fully expect people to play up the arrogant way he said it.

Surprise is simply not the point here. The guy broke the law. I doubt he'll be prosecuted. The thing to ask is, why so arrogant. Just because he is a "technocrat" does not make him so dysfunctional as to be unable to measure risk to himself...even if his being a member of the so called elite has molded him into a raging dickhead (not surprising either). He knows he is legally bullet proof due to the level of people complicit in the illegal activity he engaged in...that does not make him innocent...and his current "yea I did it, fuck you" attitude and conduct actually incenses people... not because they didn't suspect chicanery, but because he won't get nailed for it.

ETA: I guarantee you every single member of both houses understood the logic behind the individual mandate. It wasn't framed the way it was to try to fool them, but to try to give them a fig leaf of political cover. Obviously, that didn't work so well.

I think its pretty obvious I disagree with the general dismissive tone of your response and specifically the intent of the subject deceit...this was not harmless, and his intent was nefarious. It was designed to divide and confuse congress, the CBO, and the electorate. It cost a ton of money to prosecute the ACA through the supreme court, when, in essence, it was a sham knowingly perpetrated with some level of understanding that engaging as they did, this was likely to go to the SCOTUS. That some saw it as a fig leaf...I'm guessing they were complicit.


In the end, I think this man, and his cohorts believe the means justify the end because people should Want to do things their way...and are too dumb to know better. This enabled him to happily break the law. Personally, I don't think this attitude can be allowed to stand, and goes to the heart of people's perception of justice and overall the attitudes in DC. I think this should take precedence over alot of things being investigated because it speaks directly, and "unflatteringly" to the state of our "representative" government, and what people can expect from it... recourse to achieve justice...some here would say voting is not...so whats left...violence I guess.

If this guy gets a dirt nap to make the point that the electorate is in charge...will the means (killing him) justify the restoration of respect for the people (or at least fear) by those governing. One guy's life for a generation of prudent legislating... Using Gruber's own logic...should the electorate take that deal, since its collective wisdom actually does know best. (no...no, please no comparisons to when the collective wisdom was wrong...making a point here)

Obviously such action would be dismissed as "angry whackjob" by both sides, but I believe the attitudes and priorities in DC are impacting people's lives in a real way that is devoid of Justice. Not the typical self-interested legislature...but in ways that hurt big chunks of the electorate palpably. The lack of accountability for guys like this creates an attitude and environment where I think violence a possible outcome...hope I'm wrong ...suffice it to say something like that would indeed tear us apart...and possibly irreparably.

In a word, I think this is pretty serious...what will come of it...no legal action, and I hope the frustration continues to be reflected in the voting booth.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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I didn't want to politicize the Veteran's Day thread yesterday, so I'll leave this heart-breaking statistic here instead:

Suffering an IED blast on the battlefield is most certainly a traumatic event, especially when accompanied by witnessing the death or injury of other service members or civilians. Untangling the physical from the mental damage is never easy.

But doctors and veterans’ advocates feel that they are running out of time, given the skyrocketing rates of suicide among active-duty soldiers and veterans. According to the most recent statistics, Army and Navy suicides are at a record high: 2012 was the worst year for self-inflicted deaths since the military began tracking them in 2001. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta last summer called the situation an “epidemic” — with approximately 3,000 military suicides on record since 9/11.

The numbers are even worse for veterans — an estimated 18 veterans kill themselves each day, 6,570 a year. That’s comparable, advocates point out, to the approximately 6,600 men and women we’ve lost in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2001.

So we lose as many veterans every year to suicide as have been KIA overseas since 9/11.

Hug a veteran. And vote a chickenhawk out of office.
 
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