Politics

[connor_in]

Obama executive actions seen as threat to Constitution - Washington Times

 

[Bluto]

Do you understand how "employment" works? Workers are NOT slaves. They are free individuals with the agency to evaluate their situation and change it. Nobody is forced to work for anyone. If the private sector was doing such horrible things to its employees, THEN THE EMPLOYEES WERE FREE TO WALK AWAY. You make it seem like people have no choice but to stay with their current employer and eat whatever shit is fed to them. That's simply not true. The only entity with the power to force individuals into certain situations in this country is the federal government.

Various states, local municipalities, criminal organizations, privately held companies and corporations have a long history of coercion and ruining the lives of "whistle blowers". It's not so much that people don't have a "choice", sometimes it comes down to nothing but bad choices and being in a position where you are screwed either way.

 

[irishff1014]

.

 

[GoIrish41]

You can disagree all you want, but you're still wrong as it applies to US immigration law. I posted two days ago the 5 circumstances under which people can come here. Refugee status means the person is being persecuted in their home country. That does NOT include poverty.

Murder Rate in O'Malley's Baltimore Rivals Central American Countries

The murder rate in Honduras is the worst in the world.

U.N. report reveals world's highest murder rates; Honduras tops list - CNN.com

I have said over and over again that these children were not fleeing poverty. They are running for their lives. They aren't just coming to the United States, either. Nicaragua, one of the poorest countries in Latin American, has seen a 238% increase in asylum applications in the last year. If they are fleeing poverty, why would they go there?

I supose your assessment depends upon how narrow your definition of persicution is. Yours is apparently far more narrow than mine. If I lived in a place with a murder rate of more than 90 murders per 100,000 people, I'd be looking for a safe haven for my children, too.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/calls-are-growing-consider-border-kids-refugees

 

[Ndaccountant]

Hotel to Undergo Transformation into Immigrant Center | KRGV.com | CHANNEL 5 NEWS | Breaking News Breaking Stories

lol.....and then later that day.....

BCFS Walks Away from Palm Aire Hotel Project | KRGV.com | CHANNEL 5 NEWS | Breaking News Breaking Stories

 

[NDFan4Life]

MS-13 Member Arrested in La Grulla | KRGV.com | CHANNEL 5 NEWS | Breaking News Breaking Stories

How many more are on their way or are already here?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The murder rate in Honduras is the worst in the world.

U.N. report reveals world's highest murder rates; Honduras tops list - CNN.com

I have said over and over again that these children were not fleeing poverty. They are running for their lives. They aren't just coming to the United States, either. Nicaragua, one of the poorest countries in Latin American, has seen a 238% increase in asylum applications in the last year. If they are fleeing poverty, why would they go there?

I supose your assessment depends upon how narrow your definition of persicution is. Yours is apparently far more narrow than mine. If I lived in a place with a murder rate of more than 90 murders per 100,000 people, I'd be looking for a safe haven for my children, too.

Calls grow to consider border kids 'refugees' | MSNBC

You still don't get it. Our opinions don't matter here. All that matters is our law, amd under our law these people are not refugees. They should be going home to their families.

 

[GoIrish41]

You still don't get it. Our opinions don't matter here. All that matters is our law, amd under our law these people are not refugees. They should be going home to their families.

Our law states that they stay pending a hearing as their home nations do not border the US. Those individual hearings will determine if they can stay. I get it, do you?

 

[irishog77]

Has the murder rate increased all of a sudden in these other countries, prompting the influx to the U.S.? Were conditions not bad enough a few years ago to prompt parents to pay for somebody to (hopefully) send their child to the U.S. border? What about the immense number of people flooding our border that aren't children?

In other words, there are specific reasons that have prompted the literal occupation of our southern border by waves and waves of people. If somebody doesn't see this, then his head is completely in the sand.

Any amount of money, wether it be $1 or $3.7 billion, spent by our government is essentially strictly humanitarian aid if nothing is done by the current administration to curb this behavior by illegals.

Any genuine human being acknowledges that we should do something to help these people (or at least the children, specifically), but any person that doesn't acknowledge that our government must take swift and decisive action against furthering what is currently going on is living in a delusional fantasy land.

 

[GoIrish41]

Has the murder rate increased all of a sudden in these other countries, prompting the influx to the U.S.? Were conditions not bad enough a few years ago to prompt parents to pay for somebody to (hopefully) send their child to the U.S. border? What about the immense number of people flooding our border that aren't children?

In other words, there are specific reasons that have prompted the literal occupation of our southern border by waves and waves of people. If somebody doesn't see this, then his head is completely in the sand.

Any amount of money, wether it be $1 or $3.7 billion, spent by our government is essentially strictly humanitarian aid if nothing is done by the current administration to curb this behavior by illegals.

Any genuine human being acknowledges that we should do something to help these people (or at least the children, specifically), but any person that doesn't acknowledge that our government must take swift and decisive action against furthering what is currently going on is living in a delusional fantasy land.

In Honduras the murder rate doubled between 2005 and 2010 and has risen every year since so yes it seems to have reached the point of being intollerable.

 

[irishog77]

What about the people not from Honduras then?

Not just your head, but your entire body is in the sand if you believe these people have just now decided to attempt to escape harsh living conditions by entering into the United States illegally.

 

[irishog77]

It surely doesn't have anything to do with this:

Misperceptions about U.S. immigration policy behind surge of illegal children, report says | Fox News

Of the 230 migrants interviewed, 219 cited the primary reason for migrating to the United States was the perception of U.S. immigration laws granting free passes or permisos to UAC (unaccompanied children) and adult females OTMs (other than Mexicans) traveling with minors,” the report said.

And a sidenote-- I read or heard yesterday, in regards to this crisis, that the U.S. deported 95 people last year. I'm not sure if that is 95 total, or 95 similar to the ones flooding our border currently. Whatever the case, the point is an example of how our administration and justice department are NOT enforcing our laws and doing the least amount they can in establishing an actual border.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Our law states that they stay pending a hearing as their home nations do not border the US. Those individual hearings will determine if they can stay. I get it, do you?

No, you don't. They aren't being persecuted, they arent refugees, our border patrol agents shouldn't be changing diapers, some of these people are carrying diseases, MS-13 has infiltrated, and they should go home to their families.

 

[Buster Bluth]

And a sidenote-- I read or heard yesterday, in regards to this crisis, that the U.S. deported 95 people last year. I'm not sure if that is 95 total, or 95 similar to the ones flooding our border currently.

Hasn't the "flooding" reversed since the economy took a dump?

Whatever the case, the point is an example of how our administration and justice department are NOT enforcing our laws and doing the least amount they can in establishing an actual border.

And yet Obama has deported more illegals than any President in history...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Side note: ANY circumstance where illegal immigrants are being provided with government services and our veterans can't get the care they deserve is FUBAR. 100% unacceptable

 

[GoIrish41]

No, you don't. They aren't being persecuted, they arent refugees, our border patrol agents shouldn't be changing diapers, some of these people are carrying diseases, MS-13 has infiltrated, and they should go home to their families.

Maybe we should let them determine who is and is not a refugee IN THE HEARINGS that are designed to do just that. You should be all for that given your affinity for our immigration laws. It is like you said -- our opinions do not matter ... or was it just mine that don't?

 

[GoIrish41]

Side note: ANY circumstance where illegal immigrants are being provided with government services and our veterans can't get the care they deserve is FUBAR. 100% unacceptable

Agreed. Lets give the vets their due.

 

[BobD]

Hasn't the "flooding" reversed since the economy took a dump?



And yet Obama has deported more illegals than any President in history...

Stop with the facts already

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Agreed. Lets give the vets their due.

And keep our priorities straight

 

[irishog77]

Hasn't the "flooding" reversed since the economy took a dump?



And yet Obama has deported more illegals than any President in history...

I have no idea what this means or how it makes any sense.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Jonathan Turley Congressional Testimony Enforcing the President's Constitutional Duty to Faithfu - YouTube

This didn't start under Obama, but the encroachment of a more powerful Executive Branch has been taking place for decades and we (as Americans) are idly sitting by and letting our Constitunional Republic slowly be taken away from us piece by piece.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves"Abraham Lincoln. IMO, these words are more relevant than ever today.

This shouldn't be a left v right, black/brown v white issue, the fundemental argument as to what kind of future are we going to want to live in is at stake. The left can mock, impune, and ridicule those on the right (Tea Party and alike) for saying how dangerous Obama is, but last I knew we were governed by a unique and special type of a Government that was of the people, by the people, and for the people.
Jonathan Turlry is no far right nut job and he is sounding the alarm and as trueAmerican/Pariot should do, and for that I comend him.

 

[connor_in]

Hasn't the "flooding" reversed since the economy took a dump?



And yet Obama has deported more illegals than any President in history...

High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

Stop with the facts already

Facts are funny things, aren't they?

 

[RDU Irish]

Deportation Numbers Unwrapped | Center for Immigration Studies

Quick google for "US Deportation statistics" found this. Maybe someone with more spare time can rip the source to shreds but seems legit enough on its surface.

"•The number of deportations resulting from interior enforcement by ICE declined by 19 percent from 2011 to 2012, and is on track to decline another 22 percent in 2013. "

"•ICE is doing less enforcement with more resources. Despite reporting more encounters in 2013 than 2012, ICE agents pursued deportation of 20 percent fewer aliens this year than last. "

"•Total deportations in 2011, the latest year for which complete numbers are available, numbered 715,495 – the lowest level since 1973. The highest number of deportations on record was in 2000, under the Clinton administration, when 1,864,343 aliens were deported. "

 

[RDU Irish]

Another interesting perspective from the above article

"To support the claim of “record” deportations in 2012, the Obama administration and its supporters cite the 409,000 deportations attributed to ICE that year. This is the highest number of removals credited to ICE in a single year; however, the number is higher because it includes the largest number of Border Patrol cases that ever have been transferred to ICE for processing in a single year (see Table 3). It does not reflect an increase in enforcement activity. In past years, these cases would have been handled by the Border Patrol, and counted in total deportations, but not as removals. Removals are at best half the number of total deportations, and do not represent the entire scope of enforcement actions taken by DHS enforcement agencies.

The President himself confirmed this statistical manipulation in 2011, speaking at a roundtable for Hispanic reporters:


“The statistics are actually a little deceptive because what we’ve been doing is, with the stronger border enforcement, we’ve been apprehending folks at the borders and sending them back. That is counted as a deportation, even though they may have only been held for a day or 48 hours, sent back — that’s counted as a deportation.” he said."

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Maybe we should let them determine who is and is not a refugee IN THE HEARINGS that are designed to do just that. You should be all for that given your affinity for our immigration laws. It is like you said -- our opinions do not matter ... or was it just mine that don't?

They are not refugees. Hondurans are not persecuting or killing other Hondurans because they're Honduran. They should be sent back to their families, and quickly.

Refugees: "Refugees are admitted to the United States based upon an inability to return to their home countries because of a “well-founded fear of persecution” due to their race, membership in a social group, political opinion, religion, or national origin."

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Maybe we should let them determine who is and is not a refugee IN THE HEARINGS that are designed to do just that. You should be all for that given your affinity for our immigration laws. It is like you said -- our opinions do not matter ... or was it just mine that don't?

And in the meantime they are going to need more housing, food, clothing, and healthcare. All provided by whom? And for how long?

#sendbacktheirkids

 

[Ndaccountant]

Deportation Numbers Unwrapped | Center for Immigration Studies

Quick google for "US Deportation statistics" found this. Maybe someone with more spare time can rip the source to shreds but seems legit enough on its surface.

"•The number of deportations resulting from interior enforcement by ICE declined by 19 percent from 2011 to 2012, and is on track to decline another 22 percent in 2013. "

"•ICE is doing less enforcement with more resources. Despite reporting more encounters in 2013 than 2012, ICE agents pursued deportation of 20 percent fewer aliens this year than last. "

"•Total deportations in 2011, the latest year for which complete numbers are available, numbered 715,495 – the lowest level since 1973. The highest number of deportations on record was in 2000, under the Clinton administration, when 1,864,343 aliens were deported. "

Stop with the facts!

But the portrait of a steadily increasing number of deportations rests on statistics that conceal almost as much as they disclose. A closer examination shows that immigrants living illegally in most of the continental U.S. are less likely to be deported today than before Obama came to office, according to immigration data.

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.

On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

Stop with the facts

 

[GoIrish41]

They are not refugees. Hondurans are not persecuting or killing other Hondurans because they're Honduran. They should be sent back to their families, and quickly.

Refugees: "Refugees are admitted to the United States based upon an inability to return to their home countries because of a “well-founded fear of persecution” due to their race, membership in a social group, political opinion, religion, or national origin."

Call them whatever you want. They are kids escaping horrific violence and seeking refuge in other places, including the United States ...

And in the meantime they are going to need more housing, food, clothing, and healthcare. All provided by whom? And for how long?

#sendbacktheirkids

... all provided by the richest country on the face of the earth I suppose. The fact that you want to send them back to the most violent place on the planet because you don't think it's fair that we have to foot the bill is just disturbing. They are kids for Christ's sake! Sometimes you just have to do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.

 

[wizards8507]

... all provided by the richest country on the face of the earth I suppose.

What do you think "rich" means? The United States has $3T in assets against $19T in liabilities. We flat-out can't afford to be as generous as you'd like to be.

EDIT: You'll be happy to know that Glenn Beck will be taking $2M of food, toys, and supplies to the border on Saturday to help these children. Can't wait to see what spin you put on that.

Glenn Beck pleads with migrant parents - Hadas Gold - POLITICO.com

 

[GoIrish41]

What do you think "rich" means? The United States has $3T in assets against $19T in liabilities. We flat-out can't afford to be as generous as you'd like to be.

EDIT: You'll be happy to know that Glenn Beck will be taking $2M of food, toys, and supplies to the border on Saturday to help these children. Can't wait to see what spin you put on that.

Glenn Beck pleads with migrant parents - Hadas Gold - POLITICO.com

Good for Glenn Beck. He is doing the right thing. I think some of the richest among us should follow his lead. Instead of talking about how unfair it is that someone has to pay for the care of these kids, demonstrate a little humanity. For those who have much, much is expected.