Politics

[NDRock]

How realistic is a 3rd party? The only 3rd party will be the new Republican party when that shit show goes down the tubes. I'm a Republican who is totally befuddled by our party leaderships ability to hold liars accountable.

Not sure if it will ever happen but it definitely won't if people keep voting the same two parties. I hear a lot of people on both sides echo your sentiment about their own party's failures. Unfortunately the hatred for the "other" party keeps them from voting any other way. Look at this thread, most guys are talking about how bad the other side is than what their side actually stands for and accomplishes. Seems we're voting against someone as opposed to voting for someone.

 

[GoIrish41]

These people are not refugees being persecuted at home. They are trying to escape poverty. Guess what...so are millions of Americans. It's not accurate to paint the situation like the Kosovo crisis or Saddam gassing the Kurds. It's not.

A persom is many times more likely to be murdered in these countries than in the US so I disagree. They were poortwo years ago. Is it some cooincidence that 50k families simultaneously came to the conclusion that they should send their children on a dangerous journey to an uncertain fate just because the were poor? I have read that these families paid thousands of dollars to send their kids North. If you think absolute poverty was the reason I you are ignoring some imporyant information about how bad things down there.

 

[GoIrish41]

Is there a way to hide a thread so I'm not tempted to read the garbage being spewed out by the bleeding heart liberals who feel the need to recite the same narrative that's been repeated time and time again?

But before I go, I must ask, has it dawned on you that the ancestors of poor Irish immigrants like myself who you point out died building some of these countries greatest advancements, feel pride that the blood of their kin was spilled in order to make this country the most cherished on earth? Those immigrants took those jobs and minimal pay because it was better than anything they could get back in their home countries. They were glad to do the work, that is why they were disenfranchised by the Americans of British or other decent that had been here for ages. People come to America for one reason, to better themselves, and to give their future descendants a better life. They dont come, say "Oh no what did I get myself into, this is really tough, I'm going back home where things are easier."

I request the apologists take their argument and shove it up their ass, because all you are doing is a disservice to those people who died making this country great. Instead, get the candy ass attitude out of here, and appreciate the bravery that those people displayed, instead of coming to me looking for an apology because your spineless high school history teacher told you I owed you one.

As I said, they didn't want apologies. They wanted a better life for you than they got. That has happened 100 fold.

Fuck you.

God Bless America.

That was beautiful man. Seriously i shed a tear when the eagle flew by the fireworks that spontaneously went off as the american flag draped coffins of grateful irish peasant children were marched by. You sir are what this country is all about ... indifference to human exploitation. Bravo!

 

[pkt77242]

Is there a way to hide a thread so I'm not tempted to read the garbage being spewed out by the bleeding heart liberals who feel the need to recite the same narrative that's been repeated time and time again?

But before I go, I must ask, has it dawned on you that the ancestors of poor Irish immigrants like myself who you point out died building some of these countries greatest advancements, feel pride that the blood of their kin was spilled in order to make this country the most cherished on earth? Those immigrants took those jobs and minimal pay because it was better than anything they could get back in their home countries. They were glad to do the work, that is why they were disenfranchised by the Americans of British or other decent that had been here for ages. People come to America for one reason, to better themselves, and to give their future descendants a better life. They dont come, say "Oh no what did I get myself into, this is really tough, I'm going back home where things are easier."

I request the apologists take their argument and shove it up their ass, because all you are doing is a disservice to those people who died making this country great. Instead, get the candy ass attitude out of here, and appreciate the bravery that those people displayed, instead of coming to me looking for an apology because your spineless high school history teacher told you I owed you one.

As I said, they didn't want apologies. They wanted a better life for you than they got. That has happened 100 fold.

Fuck you.

God Bless America.

You had to make it personal. How about you go and learn something about history. The Irish and Chinese should be proud of the work that they did in building the railroad, and many other things that both groups did when they came to the U.S. What we shouldn't be proud of as Americans is how these private companies paid the employees like shit, put them to work under deplorable conditions all in a rush to make as much money as they could off the back of the laborers. Did you know that the Chinese were given paid monthly wages and then had to pay the railroads for room and board at the camps, so they made extremely little while dying by the hundreds? Or how about how the U.S. Army was wiping out Native Americans to move them out of the way of the Railroads. General William Tecumseh Sherman wrote in 1867: "The more we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed the next year, for the more I see of these Indians the more convinced I am that they all have to be killed or be maintained as a species of paupers." The facts are that the private sector had a long and sordid history of mistreating their workers in order to become insanely wealthy until the government stepped in with labor laws (and still got insanely wealthy but protected the workers to some extent). So why don't you go and read some goddamn books (Why don't you start with "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair) about the time period and how employees were treated and then come back and have a civil intelligent conversation. If you can't do that GTFO. Thanks

 

[pkt77242]

Bahahahahahaha. Oh this is brilliant. I have to ask: what do you do for work?

The US private sector, as Irish19 had to spell out for you, is 100% voluntary and requires zero coercion. The US private sector with limited gov and entrepreneurship created the most prosperous nation in history.

Think of the beauty of this situation: you are sitting at home on a tablet or laptop (private sector), having a political discussion on the Internet (private sector) with someone hundreds of miles away, on a Notre Dame football site(multi million dollar entity), crying about the US private sector. I love it!!

So for the underlined, you can use products in the private sector and believe that we need to improve the conditions. Seriously life is not black or white, I love the Private Sector 100% or I hate it all the time, life is extremely more nuanced than that and by your posting in this thread you seem incapable of understanding that concept.

Now as to the bold portion, while they did advance the US industrially by leaps and bounds they did it to get themselves exceedingly wealthy and they did it while absolutely taking advantage of the workforce and the lack of regulation. Literally they worked people from very young ages till the day they died. Their was no unemployment, no social security, and it was very difficult to move anywhere as transportation was difficult and expensive. People literally got rich working people to death and that is something that you want to celebrate? You can be a fan of capitalism and the private sector but you come off as lacking any knowledge of history when you can not grasp all of the horrible things that the private sector did to its employees in order to make as much money as humanly possible.

 

[GoldenDomer]

You had to make it personal. How about you go and learn something about history. The Irish and Chinese should be proud of the work that they did in building the railroad, and many other things that both groups did when they came to the U.S. What we shouldn't be proud of as Americans is how these private companies paid the employees like shit, put them to work under deplorable conditions all in a rush to make as much money as they could off the back of the laborers. Did you know that the Chinese were given paid monthly wages and then had to pay the railroads for room and board at the camps, so they made extremely little while dying by the hundreds? Or how about how the U.S. Army was wiping out Native Americans to move them out of the way of the Railroads. General William Tecumseh Sherman wrote in 1867: "The more we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed the next year, for the more I see of these Indians the more convinced I am that they all have to be killed or be maintained as a species of paupers." The facts are that the private sector had a long and sordid history of mistreating their workers in order to become insanely wealthy until the government stepped in with labor laws (and still got insanely wealthy but protected the workers to some extent). So why don't you go and read some goddamn books (Why don't you start with "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair) about the time period and how employees were treated and then come back and have a civil intelligent conversation. If you can't do that GTFO. Thanks

I don't think you read my post... Once again reciting the narrative. Everyone read The Jungle is high school. Get some new material, liberals have the same lines all day long. It's maddening. If you feel so poorly about the land "taken" (as if all land was not once possessed by another group before it was taken by the people who own it currently) why don't you offer up your house or your land to a Native American (who can prove that their tribe has owned the land since the beginning of time... good luck)? Or maybe you move to Mexico and trade houses with an illegal immigrant. That would be the right thing to do right??? I believe liberals hate the private sector because it resembles reality, something they simply have no concept of.

 

[GoldenDomer]

That was beautiful man. Seriously i shed a tear when the eagle flew by the fireworks that spontaneously went off as the american flag draped coffins of grateful irish peasant children were march by. You sir are what this country is all about ... indifference to human exploitation. Bravo!

I would ask why you hate this beautiful country, or the people who love it, but the Eagles logo explains it all. Simply a lack of brain cells in your head.

 

[GoldenDomer]

You had to make it personal. How about you go and learn something about history. The Irish and Chinese should be proud of the work that they did in building the railroad, and many other things that both groups did when they came to the U.S. What we shouldn't be proud of as Americans is how these private companies paid the employees like shit, put them to work under deplorable conditions all in a rush to make as much money as they could off the back of the laborers. Did you know that the Chinese were given paid monthly wages and then had to pay the railroads for room and board at the camps, so they made extremely little while dying by the hundreds? Or how about how the U.S. Army was wiping out Native Americans to move them out of the way of the Railroads. General William Tecumseh Sherman wrote in 1867: "The more we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed the next year, for the more I see of these Indians the more convinced I am that they all have to be killed or be maintained as a species of paupers." The facts are that the private sector had a long and sordid history of mistreating their workers in order to become insanely wealthy until the government stepped in with labor laws (and still got insanely wealthy but protected the workers to some extent). So why don't you go and read some goddamn books (Why don't you start with "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair) about the time period and how employees were treated and then come back and have a civil intelligent conversation. If you can't do that GTFO. Thanks

Oh and one more question for you, if capitalists are evil and did Native Americans so wrong, why have the the Natives taken the land given to them by the federal govt. and built casinos on them, in true capitalist spirit???

 

[pkt77242]

I don't think you read my post... Once again reciting the narrative. Everyone read The Jungle is high school. Get some new material, liberals have the same lines all day long. It's maddening. If you feel so poorly about the land "taken" (as if all land was not once possessed by another group before it was taken by the people who own it currently) why don't you offer up your house or your land to a Native American (who can prove that their tribe has owned the land since the beginning of time... good luck)? Or maybe you move to Mexico and trade houses with an illegal immigrant. That would be the right thing to do right??? I believe liberals hate the private sector because it resembles reality, something they simply have no concept of.

I read your post, you personally attacked people and showed a complete lack of understanding of the issue. You can be proud of what your ancestors accomplished and also dislike the way that they were treated by their employers. Can you not grasp that issue. Life isn't like everything about something or like none of it.

Stop with the crap arguments that "liberals don't like the private sector or we have no concept of reality", as it makes it obvious that you are only arguing on an emotional (Fox News) level and not actually presenting any facts or points.

Also I believe that you should leave this thread as you seem incapable of posting without becoming butthurt and personally attacking people.

 

[BobD]

I'm not sure what gives me more of a headache, listening to rich people trying to identify with the middle class and poor or working stiffs attempting to defend the policies favored by the wealthy, in hopes they'll somehow become included one day.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I read your post, you personally attacked people and showed a complete lack of understanding of the issue. You can be proud of what your ancestors accomplished and also dislike the way that they were treated by their employers. Can you not grasp that issue. Life isn't like everything about something or like none of it.

Stop with the crap arguments that "liberals don't like the private sector or we have no concept of reality", as it makes it obvious that you are only arguing on an emotional (Fox News) level and not actually presenting any facts or points.

Also I believe that you should leave this thread as you seem incapable of posting without becoming butthurt and personally attacking people.

Personal attacks? Please do show me. I made a simple request to all people who feel a certain way. Since we are on a football board, I will put it in coach speak, "Buy in or get out". If you are not proud of the American way, why stay? There must be more viable options.

 

[GoIrish41]

I would ask why you hate this beautiful country, or the people who love it, but the Eagles logo explains it all. Simply a lack of brain cells in your head.

Hey you are missing the Factor. You should watch it and get some new material. Your twisted view of history is astonishing. Were the slaves grateful too? Am i unpartiotic for not thinking so?

 

[pkt77242]

Oh and one more question for you Chief All-Knowing, Head Representative of the Disenfranchised, if capitalists are evil and did Native Americans so wrong, why have the the Natives taken the land given to them by the federal govt. and built casinos on them, in true capitalist spirit???

All I can do right now is laugh at your posts. Please go read about how we treated the Native Americans. Read about how we gave the small pox blankets on purpose, read about how we broke just about every damn treaty we signed with them, about how we killed them and raped them.

As to your question which serves no purpose to the discussion, they didn't really take the land, they were forced onto it. The land that they are currently on is generally not their ancestral land. Also if you read at all about Native Americans you would understand that capitalism is killing their culture, they have embraced capitalism (if you can't beat them join them) and they are slowly dying as a separate culture as well as dying of things like diabetes, alcoholism, etc. You can attack me all you want if it makes you feel like a big man, but until you go and actually understand the horrors that we put them through, you never understand why they are what they currently are and why they are struggling as a culture despite the influx of cash. Also many Native Americans have chosen not to do casinos as they fear the loss of their culture, so please don't paint all Native Americans that way.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Hey you are missing the Factor. You should watch it and get some new material. Your twisted view of history is astonishing. Were the slaves grateful too? Am i unpartiotic for not thinking so?

Ew, O'Reilly sucks. I do not remember touching on slavery. I think everyone knows it was a horrible thing. Why do liberals talk about it so much? Don't you want to distance yourself from it? I do.

 

[ACamp1900]

All I can do right now is laugh at your posts. Please go read about how we treated the Native Americans. Read about how we gave the small pox blankets on purpose, read about how we broke just about every damn treaty we signed with them, about how we killed them and raped them.

As to your question which serves no purpose to the discussion, they didn't really take the land, they were forced onto it. The land that they are currently on is generally not their ancestral land. Also if you read at all about Native Americans you would understand that capitalism is killing their culture, they have embraced capitalism (if you can't beat them join them) and they are slowly dying as a separate culture as well as dying of things like diabetes, alcoholism, etc. You can attack me all you want if it makes you feel like a big man, but until you go and actually understand the horrors that we put them through, you never understand why they are what they currently are and why they are struggling as a culture despite the influx of cash. Also many Native Americans have chosen not to do casinos as they fear the loss of their so please don't paint all Native Americans that way.

Just sayin...

 

[pkt77242]

Personal attacks? Please do show me. I made a simple request to all people who feel a certain way. Since we are on a football board, I will put it in coach speak, "Buy in or get out". If you are not proud of the American way, why stay? There must be more viable options.

Last time I checked "Fuck You" was personal as well as "shove it up your ass" Nice try.

Do you see all of life in black and white? Seriously, you can not actually believe all the crap you are posting. You can love the U.S. while still wanting to change somethings and regretting some of the U.S. history. Is that really such a difficult concept to understand? To love something doesn't mean that you have to agree 100% with it, it doesn't mean you can't want to change things about it.

 

[GoldenDomer]

All I can do right now is laugh at your posts. Please go read about how we treated the Native Americans. Read about how we gave the small pox blankets on purpose, read about how we broke just about every damn treaty we signed with them, about how we killed them and raped them.

As to your question which serves no purpose to the discussion, they didn't really take the land, they were forced onto it. The land that they are currently on is generally not their ancestral land. Also if you read at all about Native Americans you would understand that capitalism is killing their culture, they have embraced capitalism (if you can't beat them join them) and they are slowly dying as a separate culture as well as dying of things like diabetes, alcoholism, etc. You can attack me all you want if it makes you feel like a big man, but until you go and actually understand the horrors that we put them through, you never understand why they are what they currently are and why they are struggling as a culture despite the influx of cash. Also many Native Americans have chosen not to do casinos as they fear the loss of their culture, so please don't paint all Native Americans that way.

Wow, I see you are passionate about this topic. What is your current project you are working on to help at risk Native American teens battle those problems? (typing on this board doesn't count)

 

[GoldenDomer]

Last time I checked "Fuck You" was personal as well as "shove it up your ass" Nice try.

Do you see all of life in black and white? Seriously, you can not actually believe all the crap you are posting. You can love the U.S. while still wanting to change somethings and regretting some of the U.S. history. Is that really such a difficult concept to understand? To love something doesn't mean that you have to agree 100% with it, it doesn't mean you can't want to change things about it.

I see what your saying. I can read. I just don't know what thousands of posts on a message board is going to do to change 200 year old history? I think everyone wishes we lived in a perfect world, and somethings were never the way they were, but we never have and probably never will. As of now, America has bee the most cherished nation in the history of the world. So I for one, am more proud of our accomplishments than disappointed in our shortfalls.

 

[GoldenDomer]

And to explain my post about the immigrant sacrifices, I will now use an analogy:

Vietnam sucked. You can argue till your blue in the face about woulda, shoulda, coulda. But our guys that died there, or suffered in POW Camps, did so with the goal of liberating people and giving them the chance to have the sort of free-will they did back home. So they should be remembered as people who died fighting for the cause of liberation, not govt. pawns who died fighting a losing battle.

Immigrants came here and worked themselves to death in order to provide their family with better lives and hopes of a prosperous future. Like the vietnam soldier, we should view them as brave people, who came to a foreign place to better themselves and their relatives like you and I, not as herds of sheep used to carry out the tasks of greedy capitalists.

All I am saying is not to use these sacrifices as chess pieces in a political argument.

 

[GoIrish41]

I see what your saying. I can read. I just don't know what thousands of posts on a message board is going to do to change 200 year old history? I think everyone wishes we lived in a perfect world, and somethings were never the way they were, but we never have and probably never will. As of now, America has bee the most cherished nation in the history of the world. So I for one, am more proud of our accomplishments than disappointed in our shortfalls.

If you do not remember your history you are doomed to repeat it.

 

[GoldenDomer]

If you do not remember your history you are doomed to repeat it.

I believe we have done an (almost) complete 180 degrees from where we were. I live in Nascar Country, I see the rebel flags and stupid shit like that, but I what I see more of is football and basketball teams filled with white kids and black kids that will die for each other. So no, I don't think we are doomed to repeat that side of history. I think we overcame that obstacle and need to look past it to more looming issues. Every person here hates the idea of slavery. Period. Move on.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Just cleaned up some personal invective and needless profanity. Please try to keep things civil.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

We need to legalize marijuana ASAP

Things wouldn't be so amped up

 

[GoldenDomer]

We need to legalize marijuana ASAP

Things wouldn't be so amped up

I think all ND fans can appreciate a lil' green grin:

 

[Bluto]

The private sector does not take anything from anyone. They accumulate wealth by producing goods or services. Transactions are voluntary and involve no coercion.

This is one of the funniest posts I've ever read. I guess some people just didn't pay attention in history class.

 

[pkt77242]

I see what your saying. I can read. I just don't know what thousands of posts on a message board is going to do to change 200 year old history? I think everyone wishes we lived in a perfect world, and somethings were never the way they were, but we never have and probably never will. As of now, America has bee the most cherished nation in the history of the world. So I for one, am more proud of our accomplishments than disappointed in our shortfalls.

And to explain my post about the immigrant sacrifices, I will now use an analogy:

Vietnam sucked. You can argue till your blue in the face about woulda, shoulda, coulda. But our guys that died there, or suffered in POW Camps, did so with the goal of liberating people and giving them the chance to have the sort of free-will they did back home. So they should be remembered as people who died fighting for the cause of liberation, not govt. pawns who died fighting a losing battle.

Immigrants came here and worked themselves to death in order to provide their family with better lives and hopes of a prosperous future. Like the vietnam soldier, we should view them as brave people, who came to a foreign place to better themselves and their relatives like you and I, not as herds of sheep used to carry out the tasks of greedy capitalists.

All I am saying is not to use these sacrifices as chess pieces in a political argument.

I understand you point about the Vietnam Veterans but why can't we remember them as men who sacrificed everything for us and also remember how our government treated them and make sure that we never treat our soldiers that way again?

I love history and one of the things that I have seen is that the farther away we get from events the more we remember the positive and the more we downplay the horrors as well as forget the difficulties of the time period. We see it with wars (Civil War, WWI, etc), with how the Native Americans were treated, and as this thread shows we even do it with how workers were treated by corporations and why labor laws were passed in the first place. As GoIrish pointed out in his response, when we start forgetting our history (or even glossing over the negative portions of it) you are doomed to repeat it. It is normal to romanticize the past but without the memory of both the good and bad things that the U.S. has done we will repeat some of our past mistakes and I for one don't want to see that happen. I love the U.S. but I feel that at times we buy time much into our own greatness and have a tendency to look past our flaws and put down anyone who would dare remind us of our mistakes or the areas where we have failed.

Truthfully I am tired of posting in this thread and I think I need to take a break from it.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I understand you point about the Vietnam Veterans but why can't we remember them as men who sacrificed everything for us and also remember how our government treated them and make sure that we never treat our soldiers that way again?

I love history and one of the things that I have seen is that the farther away we get from events the more we remember the positive and the more we downplay the horrors as well as forget the difficulties of the time period. We see it with wars (Civil War, WWI, etc), with how the Native Americans were treated, and as this thread shows we even do it with how workers were treated by corporations and why labor laws were passed in the first place. As GoIrish pointed out in his response, when we start forgetting our history (or even glossing over the negative portions of it) you are doomed to repeat it. It is normal to romanticize the past but without the memory of both the good and bad things that the U.S. has done we will repeat some of our past mistakes and I for one don't want to see that happen. I love the U.S. but I feel that at times we buy time much into our own greatness and have a tendency to look past our flaws and put down anyone who would dare remind us of our mistakes or the areas where we have failed.

Truthfully I am tired of posting in this thread and I think I need to take a break from it.

Well put. And good time to stop posting, I wanna get back to the real boards!

Don't hold my views against me on Saturdays this fall.

Go Fucking Irish!!!

(sorry mods)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

A persom is many times more likely to be murdered in these countries than in the US so I disagree. They were poortwo years ago. Is it some cooincidence that 50k families simultaneously came to the conclusion that they should send their children on a dangerous journey to an uncertain fate just because the were poor? I have read that these families paid thousands of dollars to send their kids North. If you think absolute poverty was the reason I you are ignoring some imporyant information about how bad things down there.

You can disagree all you want, but you're still wrong as it applies to US immigration law. I posted two days ago the 5 circumstances under which people can come here. Refugee status means the person is being persecuted in their home country. That does NOT include poverty.

Murder Rate in O'Malley's Baltimore Rivals Central American Countries

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So for the underlined, you can use products in the private sector and believe that we need to improve the conditions. Seriously life is not black or white, I love the Private Sector 100% or I hate it all the time, life is extremely more nuanced than that and by your posting in this thread you seem incapable of understanding that concept.

Now as to the bold portion, while they did advance the US industrially by leaps and bounds they did it to get themselves exceedingly wealthy and they did it while absolutely taking advantage of the workforce and the lack of regulation. Literally they worked people from very young ages till the day they died. Their was no unemployment, no social security, and it was very difficult to move anywhere as transportation was difficult and expensive. People literally got rich working people to death and that is something that you want to celebrate? You can be a fan of capitalism and the private sector but you come off as lacking any knowledge of history when you can not grasp all of the horrible things that the private sector did to its employees in order to make as much money as humanly possible.

Yes I will always celebrate the US way of life and the private sector. Mistakes were made along the way and WE corrected them. Look at how many people went from poor to rich because of it. Look at the millions of lives that were improved.

I will despise people who run Ponzi schemes, companies who incorrectly bill thousands of customers, and the like. People like Ford, Gates, and others like them should be championed for their contributions.

 

[wizards8507]

So for the underlined, you can use products in the private sector and believe that we need to improve the conditions. Seriously life is not black or white, I love the Private Sector 100% or I hate it all the time, life is extremely more nuanced than that and by your posting in this thread you seem incapable of understanding that concept.

Now as to the bold portion, while they did advance the US industrially by leaps and bounds they did it to get themselves exceedingly wealthy and they did it while absolutely taking advantage of the workforce and the lack of regulation. Literally they worked people from very young ages till the day they died. Their was no unemployment, no social security, and it was very difficult to move anywhere as transportation was difficult and expensive. People literally got rich working people to death and that is something that you want to celebrate? You can be a fan of capitalism and the private sector but you come off as lacking any knowledge of history when you can not grasp all of the horrible things that the private sector did to its employees in order to make as much money as humanly possible.

Do you understand how "employment" works? Workers are NOT slaves. They are free individuals with the agency to evaluate their situation and change it. Nobody is forced to work for anyone. If the private sector was doing such horrible things to its employees, THEN THE EMPLOYEES WERE FREE TO WALK AWAY. You make it seem like people have no choice but to stay with their current employer and eat whatever shit is fed to them. That's simply not true. The only entity with the power to force individuals into certain situations in this country is the federal government.