Politics

[wizards8507]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tea....naacp.org%2Fpages%2Ftea-party-report;280;364

Liberals caught posing as Tea Partiers - National Conservative | Examiner.com

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Lol

While you giggle to yourself over there, let me remind you that the Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already." Do some homework on tea party candidates nationwide. You might surprise yourself...not a crowd full of angry white racists.

If race is what you really want to talk about, I'm game. Harry Reid has made more racist comments on his own than all other national politicians combined.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

VIDEO: Black Chicagoans Angry Message as Obama Puts Illegals above Blacks

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, Mexico sold the U.S land that various tribes had been on for who knows how long that pretty much had no Americans or Mexicans. A lot of the people who populated the area for America were immigrants. ** After the Redskins debate here on IE, I've been asking a local Native friend about the history of the area. As of now I have a very basic understanding of what happened way back when.

But the main point is that the USA has been so willing to let in immigrants is to due to the huge tract of Indian land that could be populated with newcomers. Is it a coincidence that the original Tea Party, the Know Nothings, popped up when a large number of immigrants showed up in American cities?

I don't dispute any of that. But if you're looking for examples of how the US has hosed Native Americans, the acquisition of California is pretty far down the list.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Race baiting. The Tea Party has absolutely nothing to do with race. The Tea Party evolved because a large number of people became disgusted with Democratic spending and establishment Republicans acting the same way.

What do you think, he's lying to you? I don't know about you, but I've never met a shy racist. If the Tea Party had anything to do with race, don't you think they might have, I don't know, said something racist by now? Or how about the fact that Ben Carson would be a top three candidate for president among the Tea Party if he showed any interest in running?

Maybe I should start hanging around college educated Tea Partiers, you know the real ones.

 

[GoIrish41]

Maybe I should start hanging around college educated Tea Partiers, you know the real ones.

You have apparently made the mistake of hanging out with liberals who were posing as Tea Baggers trying to make them look like racists. lol

 

[Emcee77]

Yeah, Mexico sold the U.S land that various tribes had been on for who knows how long that pretty much had no Americans or Mexicans. A lot of the people who populated the area for America were immigrants. ** After the Redskins debate here on IE, I've been asking a local Native friend about the history of the area. As of now I have a very basic understanding of what happened way back when.

But the main point is that the USA has been so willing to let in immigrants is to due to the huge tract of Indian land that could be populated with newcomers. Is it a coincidence that the original Tea Party, the Know Nothings, popped up when a large number of immigrants showed up in American cities?

Race baiting. The Tea Party has absolutely nothing to do with race. The Tea Party evolved because a large number of people became disgusted with Democratic spending and establishment Republicans acting the same way.

I don't see where the race-baiting comes in. Are Tea Partiers not generally opposed to large-scale immigration with limited restrictions? The comparison of the modern Tea Party with the Know-Nothings of the 19th century is often made, even by (non-Tea Party) conservatives. It might be more of a flight of rhetoric than a sound analytical comparison, but it's hardly outrageous.

Anyway, Jeb's point was that waves of immigrants came to this country in the 19th century in part because there were vast expanses of formerly Indian land to settle, and there were populist objections then, as there are now, to the immigration. There was no accusation of racism, unless I missed it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You have apparently made the mistake of hanging out with liberals who were posing as Tea Baggers trying to make them look like racists. lol

Allen West. Tim Scott. Suzanna Martinez. Deneen Borelli. Ted Cruz. Raul Labrador. I could list dozens more since you two haven't done any research on this. You're engulfing too much MSNBC and have no idea who makes up the Tea Party.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I don't see where the race-baiting comes in. Are Tea Partiers not generally opposed to large-scale immigration with limited restrictions? The comparison of the modern Tea Party with the Know-Nothings of the 19th century is often made, even by (non-Tea Party) conservatives. It might be more of a flight of rhetoric than a sound analytical comparison, but it's hardly outrageous.

Anyway, Jeb's point was that waves of immigrants came to this country in the 19th century in part because there were vast expanses of formerly Indian land to settle, and there were populist objections then, as there are now, to the immigration. There was no accusation of racism, unless I missed it.

Jeb's argument to me read that the racist Tea Party rose due to the country's first half black president being elected. I countered with the fact that the Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already" and had more to do with fiscal conservatives fed up with establishment Republicans and Democrats with their spending. They also want a constitutional government (TARP, stimulus, obamacare, etc).

You guys crack me up and some still can't wrap their heads around this: I am not anti immigration, and neither is the Tea Party. We are anti ILLEGAL immigration. Big difference, yet on this forum somehow impossible for some to understand. Look at GoIrish41's posts from yesterday and you'll see the same.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have made this point before, my wife (Filipino/Mexican), my brother in law (Black), my mother and father in law (Filipino and Mexican, obviously) and my parents are all Tea Party members… all of them are TP members for the exact reasons Polish metions above, and three of the six have their masters degree and one has a doctorate. Please stop with the “Tea Bagging” crap, and or cries of mass racism/stupidity, there are a lot of names and labels that I could use to express my contempt for modern liberal movements that I refuse to use out of respect for many of the liberal minds on this board that I happen to respect.

 

[GoIrish41]

Allen West. Tim Scott. Suzanna Martinez. Deneen Borelli. Ted Cruz. Raul Labrador. I could list dozens more since you two haven't done any research on this. You're engulfing too much MSNBC and have no idea who makes up the Tea Party.

Dozens? Wow, that is impressive for a national political movement. Oh, and Allen West? hahahahahaha

 

[GoldenDomer]

 

[Emcee77]

Jeb's argument to me read that the racist Tea Party rose due to the country's first half black president being elected. I countered with the fact that the Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already" and had more to do with fiscal conservatives fed up with establishment Republicans and Democrats with their spending. They also want a constitutional government (TARP, stimulus, obamacare, etc).

You absolutely misread his posts then, or I did. That wasn't in there, as far as I noticed.

 

[wizards8507]

Are Tea Partiers not generally opposed to large-scale immigration with limited restrictions?

Nope, they're not. They're opposed to ILLEGAL immigration. Let's see if we can make this clear.

White guy who enters the country illegally = bad
Hispanic guy who enters the country legally = good

If it had ANYTHING to do with race, the problem "tea partiers" would have would be with the Hispanic guy. The issue is not who is coming here or what color they are, it's with how they're coming here.

 

[Emcee77]

Nope, they're not. They're opposed to ILLEGAL immigration. Let's see if we can make this clear.

White guy who enters the country illegally = bad
Hispanic guy who enters the country legally = good

If it had ANYTHING to do with race, the problem "tea partiers" would have would be with the Hispanic guy. The issue is not who is coming here or what color they are, it's with how they're coming here.

That makes no difference for purposes of Jeb's comparison. He never said ANYTHING about race or about legal/illegal immigration. He merely mentioned Indians by way of explaining WHY there were vast expanses of unsettled land that were inviting to immigrants, and linked the Tea Party movement to the immigration issue. There was no race baiting in this thread, at least not by Jeb, and yet AGAIN, you have unnecessarily posted a contemptuous, condescending message.

 

[wizards8507]

There was no race baiting in this thread, at least not by Jeb, and yet AGAIN, you have unnecessarily posted a contemptuous, condescending message.

See below.

Race baiting. The Tea Party has absolutely nothing to do with race. The Tea Party evolved because a large number of people became disgusted with Democratic spending and establishment Republicans acting the same way.

Leppy may have jumped the gun with his accusation of "race baiting," but Jeb proved him right with his very next post.

Lol

Clearly a contemptuous post scoffing at the idea that the tea party has nothing to do with race.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tea....naacp.org%2Fpages%2Ftea-party-report;280;364

GoIrish's attempt to use Google Images as an authoritative source to prove how racist the tea party is.

 

[Emcee77]

What do you think, he's lying to you? I don't know about you, but I've never met a shy racist. If the Tea Party had anything to do with race, don't you think they might have, I don't know, said something racist by now? Or how about the fact that Ben Carson would be a top three candidate for president among the Tea Party if he showed any interest in running?

You posted this at 6:35 a.m., post # 13518.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tea....naacp.org%2Fpages%2Ftea-party-report;280;364

GoIrish posted this at 7:36 a.m., post # 13521.

When you posted 13518, there was no race baiting.

Jeb's "lol" could just as easily have been laughing at the accusation of race baiting, which was baseless at that time.

I make no apologies for GoIrish's post, I want to be clear. But he wouldn't have posted that without false claims of race-baiting by Leppy and wizards.

 

[GoIrish41]

See below.

My response -- a group of photographs of tea party rallies in which marchers were holding up offensive and often racist signs and such, was a direct response to this statement:

If the Tea Party had anything to do with race, don't you think they might have, I don't know, said something racist by now?

I did not bring up race, I was simply demonstrating how silly your statement was.

 

[pkt77242]

I have made this point before, my wife (Filipino/Mexican), my brother in law (Black), my mother and father in law (Filipino and Mexican, obviously) and my parents are all Tea Party members… all of them are TP members for the exact reasons Polish metions above, and three of the six have their masters degree and one has a doctorate. Please stop with the “Tea Bagging” crap, and or cries of mass racism/stupidity, there are a lot of names and labels that I could use to express my contempt for modern liberal movements that I refuse to use out of respect for many of the liberal minds on this board that I happen to respect.

Here is what I would say, that the Tea Party has a significant portion of highly educated and wealthy members, it also has a significant portion of older people/retired and it has a small but vocal racist component. I don't believe that the Tea Party was created to be racist or is racist in and of itself but it does attract some racist groups as members (again a small but vocal portion).

On the stupidity part there is some truth just as there is some truth in how any party/movement plays to it's base. I think that there are many very smart people in the movement but in order to get traction as a national movement they dumbed down some of the message to appeal to the masses (just like both Democrats and Republicans do). It just happens that the most vocal tea party members amongst the public seem to be the least intelligent (though you could probably make that argument about any political party). Also some of their candidates have been rather laughable (Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Todd Akin, etc) but they have also put some strong candidates out there (whom I happen to disagree with but they are strong candidates none the less) such as Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, etc.

Just for shits and giggles. Daniel Kurtzman: The Top 20 Craziest Quotes by Tea Party Candidates

 

[wizards8507]

Outrageously, laughably, and transparently dishonest, wizards.

You posted this at 6:35 a.m., post # 13518.

GoIrish posted this at 7:36 a.m., post # 13521.

When you posted 13518, there was no race baiting.

I make no apologies for GoIrish's post, I want to be clear. But he wouldn't have posted that without false claims of race-baiting by Leppy and wizards.

My response was to Jeb's "lol" post, not to GoIrish. I don't care who started it, frankly, but I stand by my posts. My problem is not with race-baiting in this conversation but with people at large who bring up racism as it relates to the tea party. Regardless of how race ENTERED the conversation, GoIrish continued it and I felt compelled to respond.

My response -- a group of photographs of tea party rallies in which marchers were holding up offensive and often racist signs and such, was a direct response to this statement:

If the Tea Party had anything to do with race, don't you think they might have, I don't know, said something racist by now?

I did not bring up race, I was simply demonstrating how silly your statement was.

Again, I don't care who started it. Leppy probably did. My point about your pictures of the signs is that it has been proven that ThinkProgress and other leftist groups have gone to Tea Party events as "fake racists" so they could get on the news and give me movement a black eye. Furthermore, even if a "real" racist showed up to a tea party rally, that doesn't automatically disqualify its message. A racist who believes that murder is wrong and a murderer who believes that racism is wrong are both correct, however despicable the rest of their beliefs might be.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Dozens? Wow, that is impressive for a national political movement. Oh, and Allen West? hahahahahaha

Yes, dozens. More than the Democrats have in the Senate. Chew on that for a bit.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Yeah, Mexico sold the U.S land that various tribes had been on for who knows how long that pretty much had no Americans or Mexicans. A lot of the people who populated the area for America were immigrants. ** After the Redskins debate here on IE, I've been asking a local Native friend about the history of the area. As of now I have a very basic understanding of what happened way back when.

But the main point is that the USA has been so willing to let in immigrants is to due to the huge tract of Indian land that could be populated with newcomers. Is it a coincidence that the original Tea Party, the Know Nothings, popped up when a large number of immigrants showed up in American cities?

Jeb's argument to me read that the racist Tea Party rose due to the country's first half black president being elected. I countered with the fact that the Tea Party stands for "Taxed Enough Already" and had more to do with fiscal conservatives fed up with establishment Republicans and Democrats with their spending. They also want a constitutional government (TARP, stimulus, obamacare, etc).

You guys crack me up and some still can't wrap their heads around this: I am not anti immigration, and neither is the Tea Party. We are anti ILLEGAL immigration. Big difference, yet on this forum somehow impossible for some to understand. Look at GoIrish41's posts from yesterday and you'll see the same.

Yeah, my first post about the Tea Party was definitely about race and a black president...

 

[GoIrish41]

My response was to Jeb's "lol" post, not to GoIrish. I don't care who started it, frankly, but I stand by my posts. My problem is not with race-baiting in this conversation but with people at large who bring up racism as it relates to the tea party. Regardless of how race ENTERED the conversation, GoIrish continued it and I felt compelled to respond.


Again, I don't care who started it. Leppy probably did. My point about your pictures of the signs is that it has been proven that ThinkProgress and other leftist groups have gone to Tea Party events as "fake racists" so they could get on the news and give me movement a black eye. Furthermore, even if a "real" racist showed up to a tea party rally, that doesn't automatically disqualify its message. A racist who believes that murder is wrong and a murderer who believes that racism is wrong are both correct, however despicable the rest of their beliefs might be.

Well again, I was responding to YOUR post. Your statement was nonsensical, suggesting that nobody in the tea party has ever said anything racist. I figured posting a link with about 1000 pictures of tea party members holding up signs with racist slogans was clear proof that your statement was not founded in reality. My post had nothing to do with calling anyone a racist, it had everything to do with correcting your ill informed statement.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes, dozens. More than the Democrats have in the Senate. Chew on that for a bit.

So, you are saying that you can name more miniorities in a national political movement than there are Democrats in a body that has 100 members? And, you are throwing that around like it is an impressive statistic? Alrighty then.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So, you are saying that you can name more miniorities in a national political movement than there are Democrats in a body that has 100 members? And, you are throwing that around like it is an impressive statistic? Alrighty then.

One might imagine a Democratic senate that always claims to support "the little guy", "minorities", and "diversity" would have more minorities (one Hispanic and zero blacks) and fewer old white men. I would think the party would want more minorities in such prestige, national positions.

The Tea Party is more racially diverse than the Senate Democrats, so from my viewpoint the narrative of the racist Tea Party is a joke.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Immigration reform is tantamount to US national security. We need the population growth that the immigrants provide to supplement the loss of workforce from the baby boomers or we risk the permanent loss of those jobs. Over time, the USA has had a much higher GDP growth rate than other developed economies such as France or England. However, when looking at the growth on a per capita basis, the US is in the middle of the pack. That means we need more people to continue the growth to pay off our mounting fiscal troubles.

The problem is we are not great at separating immigrants who contribute to our economic growth and those who consume resources. Consider this; nearly 75% of the unlawful immigrants in this country have no more than a high school education. In contrast to lawful immigrants, unlawful immigrants at present do not have access to means-tested welfare, Social Security, or Medicare. According to Heritage, in 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. The issue with amnesty is this net $14,000 drain is increased as the new US citizens would be eligible for 80 means tested welfare programs (including Obamacare). This could would be partially mitigated by moving the immigrants away from "off the books" and force them to contribute to FICA, but it would not make up the difference. Once legal, average benefits would rise to $43,900 per household; tax payments would increase to $16,000, thus the the average fiscal deficit would be about $28,000 per household. This is almost double from where they are today.

With all of that said, selective immigration is the key. Dating back to the mid 90's study on the fiscal drain of illegal immigrants, the NRC (National Research Council) found that for those who have a college education and immigrate to the US, they have a lifetime fiscal surplus of over $100K (1996 $'s). These are the people we need to be targeting and who should get the first chance at becoming citizens.

I know this probably seems like a cold, analytical view to something that clearly impacts millions of people who just want to have a better life. However, if we are not careful, we run the risk of creating serious financial instability for the Federal Government, which impacts significantly more people. Call it consequentialism if you will, but it is something that I can't get past.

 

[wizards8507]

I love this. Nothing says "you're doing something right" as a Republican more than John McCain, Rick Perry, and Dick Cheney criticizing your foreign policy.

The Rand Paul pile on - David Nather and Jeremy Herb - POLITICO.com

"I ask Gov. Perry: How many Americans should send their sons or daughters to die for a foreign country — a nation the Iraqis won’t defend for themselves? How many Texan mothers and fathers will Gov. Perry ask to send their children to fight in Iraq?"

 

[condoms SUCk]

Here is what I would do.
1). Send the US army to secure our southern boarder (we are a sovereign nation right?).
2). Enforce CURRENT immigration law.
3). Any illegal in custody with ICE currently is deported back to their country of origin, make sure to follow current law.
3). Enforce and expand E-Verify and stand up to big business and corporate farms. No more illegal employees.
4). Pass a law that would make it detrimental for employers to hire illegal workers.
5). Put in place a long term boarder security plan in place and start implementing it. (Change the current law referring to the contiguous US country’s that are allowing the Central American illegals to stay, to the same language that is used for Mexico)
6). Illegals that are currently residing in the US must make themselves known and register with ICE and request green cards for employment.
7). Deal with special circumstances….. too many variables to lay out in this format.
8). Work to try and improve the conditions in Mexico and the Central American countries. NAFTA was supposed to do that, but I don’t think it working, so another plan/policy is needed.

 

[pkt77242]

I love this. Nothing says "you're doing something right" as a Republican more than John McCain, Rick Perry, and Dick Cheney criticizing your foreign policy.

The Rand Paul pile on - David Nather and Jeremy Herb - POLITICO.com

"I ask Gov. Perry: How many Americans should send their sons or daughters to die for a foreign country — a nation the Iraqis won’t defend for themselves? How many Texan mothers and fathers will Gov. Perry ask to send their children to fight in Iraq?"

I don't think that John McCain has met a country that he didn't want to bomb.