Politics

[GoIrish41]

The Republicans have lost the last two presidential elections( and things don't look good for the next. ) It's not them, it's voter fraud.

If people had to show IDs to vote Romney would obviously be President today.

 

[chicago51]

My breakdown of the Ryan Budget:

What's in Paul Ryan plan? Surprising numbers from GOP House budget. (+video) - CSMonitor.com

Share on stumbleuponShare on emailPaul Ryan, in his latest House budget plan, is certainly ambitious in his goals.

Balance the budget in 10 years. Avoid the military cuts occurring in the current federal “sequester.” Streamline the tax code without raising taxes. Make entitlement programs sustainable. Make the public debt go down, not up.

Representative Ryan urged all those things Tuesday and more, in his role as chairman of the House Budget Committee. The targets in the committee’s new budget plan are in some cases hard to achieve simultaneously.

RECOMMENDED: How much do you know about US entitlement programs? Take our quiz.

And they’re controversial. Ryan blended candor with understatement when he said President Obama would “probably not” sign on to all the Republican ideas. The White House didn't disappoint, saying in a statement that the budget's math "doesn't add up" and that Mr. Obama considered the proposal "the wrong course for America."

Here’s a tour of Ryan’s proposal, with each stop headlined by an eye-popping number from the House budget document.

Net interest on national debt in 2023: $630 billion
That’s how much the nation would spend on interest payments alone, during the 2023 fiscal year, even if Ryan’s big spending cuts were enacted and the nation balances its budget.

Without any change from current policies, debt payments in that year would total $857 billion, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) calculates.

Want your top political issues explained? Get customized DC Decoder updates.

Unless the buildup of debt is addressed, “we are consigning the next generation to an inferior standard of living,” Ryan said Tuesday.

Although they might not phrase the consequences exactly that way, nonpartisan economists including those at the CBO generally agree on the need to address the national debt.

Most economists agree that the core cause of the rising national debt is entitlement spending that’s growing fast, as a share of overall national income, without tax revenue to cover the cost.

Annual rise in Medicare spending per capita: GDP growth plus 0.5 percent
Ryan’s controversial idea of overhauling Medicare isn’t new, but his approach gives a jolt to anyone accustomed to the current system. He says he’s saving Medicare from its current track of “going bankrupt.” Critics say he’s turning a vital piece of economic security for seniors into a voucher program.

Ryan’s new budget plan calls for a shift toward a “premium support” model of Medicare, starting in 2024 for people born in 1959 or later. Seniors would choose among a variety of health plans, and Medicare would provide a premium-support payment that would cover all or part of the insurance.

The pace of Medicare spending would slow, because annual increases would be capped at the rate of GDP growth plus 0.5 percent – well below their long-term trend line. Low-income Americans would get extra help with out-of-pocket costs.

“This proposal would use competition – not bureaucratic fiat – to control costs,” the budget plan says.

Where the CBO forecasts $8 trillion in Medicare spending between 2014 and 2023, the new House budget plan calls for $6.6 trillion in net Medicare spending for that period.

Bottom line the Medicare voucher does not keep up with the rising cost of Health Care. So senior citizens over time are going to have to eat the difference. My parents who are in their early 50s would be some of the first victims of his voucherization (not sure if that is a word) if this happened.

Expanding the federal safety net: zero dollars
A section of the House Republican plan is titled “safety net strengthened.” The Ryan approach is defined by the argument that the current array of antipoverty programs hasn’t put much of a dent in poverty, and that a focus on stronger economic growth would do the most to improve living standards at all income levels.

Practically, though, that translates into what liberals and some other budget experts say are harsh cutbacks in programs including Medicaid for the poor. The plan calls for a repeal of the Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”), including its expansion of Medicaid coverage to more Americans.

The impact? A CBO baseline sees Medicaid spending at $572 billion in 2023 plus $134 billion for insurance subsidies to help households buy insurance under Obamacare. The House budget would provide $387 billion in that year for Medicaid and other non-Medicare health programs.

The House budget also sees “other mandatory” spending (which includes supports for the poor such as food stamps) falling from $443 billion in 2014 to $404 billion in 2023.

Converting SNAP (food stamps) into a block grant to states, indexed for inflation and eligibility, “allows states to tailor their programs to their recipients’ needs,” while encouraging recipients to find work, the House plan says.

So he wants to cut from poor people by gutting Medicaid and ending Medicaid expansion. This is going bring health insurance up for everyone else. There will an increase in uninsured patient's ending up in the emergency room with less Medicaid benefits. "Bad Debt, Free Care" as we say here is what we want to avoid because it drives everybody's cost up. FYI my part time job right now is in hospital billing and I can tell you free care kills us. The cost will no doubt be passed along to the rest of the consumers.

By turning food stamps into block grants you are shifting cost to state governments strapped for cash. Not mention you got Governor's like Rick Synder and Scott Walker out there. Plus their is Bobby Jindal who has raced taxes on poor people and cut taxes on rich people.

Defense funding for a decade: $6 trillion
The Ryan plan calls securing citizens’ safety the “first job of the federal government.” It calls for adding back about $500 billion in defense cuts that would be in place if the automatic reductions of the Budget Control Act (reductions known as the “sequester”) remain in effect.

Still, the House budget seeks less for defense than the Ryan-led committee did last year. Ryan says the plan fully funds defense needs that have been outlined by the military’s joint chiefs of staff.

So minor cuts to defense much less than the sequester. I think we can go a bit further but I'm not furious here.

Going after waste: $115 billion in “improper payments”
The Budget Committee cites research tallying $115 billion in “improper payments” to individuals or contractors from the federal government in 2011. This includes a range of problems from Medicare fraud to unintentional wrong payments. But it’s not all pure waste – some of this money is the right amount, being sent to the right place, but with improper record keeping.

Targeting this problem is part of a larger initiative Ryan calls for, to improve the fairness of federal programs by eliminating waste and special-interest handouts – and saving money in the process.

The effort includes rolling back corporate subsidies across the energy sector (Ryan says the handouts have been especially generous to green-energy firms) and reforming the role of government in mortgage financing. The Republican plan says the loan guarantees provided by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, with taxpayers as a backstop, should be "drastically" decreased. Some critics of this idea say this could push up mortgage interest rates.

This isn't totally terrible. I think green energy is important but it needs to be invested smarter. I don't think anyone is against finding and elimating waste in any area of government.

Only two tax brackets: 10 percent and 25 percent

The House Republicans call for simplifying the tax code. The aim is to raise the same amount of tax revenue, but in a way that better encourages economic growth – by keeping marginal tax rates low. Payers would be divided into two tax brackets, one paying at a 10 percent marginal rate and the other at a 25 percent marginal rate.

Critics level a similar charge that they did against presidential candidate Mitt Romney: that the change could bestow extra benefits on upper-income Americans who are now being asked to pay a 39.6 percent top tax rate.

Ryan asserted, as Romney did last fall, that this problem can be addressed by rolling back tax deductions more for the rich than for everyone else.

Okay how the heck are you going to do this Mr. Ryan? Dropping the rates of the high end tax brackets is going to be a tax cut of several trillion dollars it is pretty much what Romney wanted and that was 5 trillion dollar cut. Okay now if closed all the loopholes for the priviledge you might be able to get more than a trillion. The House progressive sequester replacement plan closes 10 major loopholes and only gets $737 billion over 10 years. (Congressional Progressive Caucus : Balancing Act) Even if you made capital gains taxes the same as regular income that is still not enough offset the kind of tax cuts they are talking about by dropping the rates. Yet they claim they will get the same amount of revenue as we are getting right now? I would love to see the specifics on how he can do this.

Total federal spending over 10 years: $41.5 trillion
Total federal spending would be about $4.6 trillion lower than the baseline the committee started with, and $5.7 trillion less than a CBO baseline.

So, if you aren’t convinced yet, the Ryan plan involves big budget cuts. Total spending would be higher, in dollars, in 2023 than it is today. But as a share of the economy, outlays would fall to match revenues of roughly 19 percent of GDP.

Discretionary spending wouldn’t keep pace with inflation.

In other words we are going to get even less done on our roads, and transportation than we already do. So our infastructure will become 3rd world over time.

The benefit: Debt, which many economists see as already in a zone where it endangers economic prosperity, would fall from about 73 percent of one year’s GDP down to 55 percent.

The drawback is the squeeze on both entitlement programs and discretionary priorities. Where Ryan says these are tough but necessary choices, critics say there’s no reason the budget has to balance by 2013, or why some of the reduction in deficits can’t come from tax hikes.

It should be mentioned that although he repeals the part of Obamacare that expands Medicaid and give subsidies to those within 400% of the poverty he keeps the taxes in place that pay for those things. I know there have been some on here complaining about the Obamacare taxes you can't be happy he is keeping them right?

Should also be mentioned that the savings in Medicare (about $750 billlion) which was largely waste fraud and abuse type things from Obamacare was also kept. Yet he and Romney during the campaign tried to spin it as Obama taking benefits away from senior citizens when it didn't cut their benefits. So he was against it now he is keeping it? Hypocrite?

 

[Black Irish]

An Ohio poll-worker was indicted for voting for Obama 6 times.

Melowese Richardson, Cincinnati Poll Worker, Indicted on Voter Fraud Charges - JD Journal | JD Journal

Which is bizzare, because everyone knows that "voter fraud never happens" and "has never been proven"...

To be fair, she was being disenfranchised on her first 5 voting attempts by the racist white male power structure that watches Fox News and has signed pictures of Sarah Palin on their walls. I'd call it a wash.

 

[chicago51]

Dawn liberal bias

Even Forbes says the Bush tax cuts didn't help with job growth, and they looked at things pre-recession.

The Truth About The Bush Tax Cuts And Job Growth - Forbes

Tax Cuts Don't Create Jobs - Forbes

 

[connor_in]

My breakdown of the Ryan Budget:

What's in Paul Ryan plan? Surprising numbers from GOP House budget. (+video) - CSMonitor.com



It should be mentioned that although he repeals the part of Obamacare that expands Medicaid and give subsidies to those within 400% of the poverty he keeps the taxes in place that pay for those things. I know there have been some on here complaining about the Obamacare taxes you can't be happy he is keeping them right?

Should also be mentioned that the savings in Medicare (about $750 billlion) which was largely waste fraud and abuse type things from Obamacare was also kept. Yet he and Romney during the campaign tried to spin it as Obama taking benefits away from senior citizens when it didn't cut their benefits. So he was against it now he is keeping it? Hypocrite?

MY breakdown of Obama's and the Democrat proposed budget:
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... what...still don't have one yet? ok, I'll wait .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... anyone wanna head over to the bar while we wait??????

 

[chicago51]

MY breakdown of Obama's and the Democrat proposed budget:
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... what...still don't have one yet? ok, I'll wait .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... anyone wanna head over to the bar while we wait??????

Senate budget coming out at 2:00 PM ET

Obama will come out with his in April. You want to get on the president for being late that is very fair. The president is not required to submit a budget and some President's actually do not. Obama has so if you want get on him for being late that is fair.

President Obama's 2013 for fiscal year 2013 is right here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/budget.pdf

The framework for the President's long term debt reduction plan that would replace the sequester bring down the debt further is right here:

The Sequester - The President's Plan | The White House

The House Progressive Caucus has released a budget every year and should have their's out shortly.

Here's last year's: Congressional Progressive Caucus : Budget for All

http://www.epi.org/files/2012/wp293.pdf


House progressives also put out a plan to replace the sequester: Congressional Progressive Caucus : Balancing Act ; A plan that Republican voters chose over their own parties plans when they didn't know who's idea picking in a blind poll. Sequester Poll: Respondents Buck Party Trends - Business Insider

 

[GoIrish41]

MY breakdown of Obama's and the Democrat proposed budget:
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... what...still don't have one yet? ok, I'll wait .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... anyone wanna head over to the bar while we wait??????

lol

 

[connor_in]

In my opinion, requiring any kind of ID is a hinderence (SP) (and thus shouldn't be required, as nothing is free in the world, there is no free lunch.

Yeah!

Them asking me about my name and address is wrong too to try to find me in their big book of voters. How unfair is that? I thought this was a private ballot and yet they want to check me off on a list? Its amazing what they can get away with...and why are there all the "poll workers" around? Its like they are trying to check out who I voted for! We should not stand for this oppression....you should be able to walk in...grab a ballot...fill it out the way you want and put it in the ballot box without all this other interference and identifying you...when I go to McDonald's, they don't check me off on a list of names...when i go to the liquor store, they look at my id to check my age, but they don't check me off any list...when I vote for American Idol, I don't have these poll workers all over the place creating an environment of spying and duress.

 

[connor_in]

Senate budget coming out at 2:00 ET

see last line of referenced post

 

[irishpat183]

I just wanna get this straight, you guys are arguing that throughout the illustrious history of voter intimidation, disenfranchisement, and fraud in this country, that blacks have been the real culprits and those three guys that called themselves the new black panther party are the big problem and the ones who should be prosecuted? Those three morons effect elections? They did the equivalent of what the Supreme Court did in 2000? They delivered the election for their man?

That's not what I said. He said everyone needing to have ID to vote, was "disenfranchising" which is total bullshit and everyone knows it. YOu know it. You're just playinig the party line.

I was simply saying that how can THAT be considered "prevention" and guys standing outside voting booths with billy clubs NOT be?!@?!?!?!

 

[irishpat183]

Dawn liberal bias

Even Forbes says the Bush tax cuts didn't help with job growth, and they looked at things pre-recession.

The Truth About The Bush Tax Cuts And Job Growth - Forbes

Tax Cuts Don't Create Jobs - Forbes

Cut taxes for small businesses and start ups. It doesn't say that "tax cuts don't create jobs"...they do. If you put them in the right place.

 

[chicago51]

Cut taxes for small businesses and start ups. It doesn't say that "tax cuts don't create jobs"...they do. If you put them in the right place.

American Jobs Act would have cut taxes for small business, it got filibustered and missed going into effect by 1 vote. You guys must really hate infastructure. The American jobs Act called for an additional $50 billion in immediate infastructure investment but it was too much to stomach for the Republicans in the Senate. So small businesses didn't get the tax cuts.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Update on how much the Gov't is responsible for increased oil and gas production:

Review & Outlook: Drill, Barack, Drill - WSJ.com

Again, here is more detail on how much oil companies really pay in taxes:

Review & Outlook: Big Oil, Bigger Taxes - WSJ.com

Finally, here is what my plan would be. Finally approvel Keystone, but earmark the tax revenues (income & excise) to pay for LNG and CNG conversion. In the end, LNG and CNG are significantly cheaper fuel sources, can be manufactured domestically and are much cleaner than oil and gas. This would be a high source of economic growth in our country not to mention relief on prices and the middle class.

 

[irishpat183]

American Jobs Act would have cut taxes for small business, it got filibustered and missed going into effect by 1 vote. You guys must really hate infastructure. The American jobs Act called for an additional $50 billion in immediate infastructure investment but it was too much to stomach for the Republicans in the Senate. So small businesses didn't get the tax cuts.

Again...what else was packed into that bill?? Extending unemployment? Mortgage refinanicing? Bank infrastructure...Yeah, Fannie and Freddie was such a winner. It was another stimulus, and after the last COMPLETE FAILURE stimulus...it's not wonder it didn't pass.

And if the left was so concerned about jobs...Davis-Bacon should've been suspended or done away with. Forcing contractors to pay above market and or union wages cost us jobs.

Again, the left doesn't give a damn about small biz. Or growing the economy on the private side. Davis-Bacon is crippling us and should've been an obvious solution to jumpstarting job growth.

Also, government cannot create permanent jobs. How does building roads solve long term unemployment?

 

[GoIrish41]

That's not what I said. He said everyone needing to have ID to vote, was "disenfranchising" which is total bullshit and everyone knows it. YOu know it. You're just playinig the party line.

I was simply saying that how can THAT be considered "prevention" and guys standing outside voting booths with billy clubs NOT be?!@?!?!?!

I'll ask again. Why is nobody trying right now to push through legislation to require photo IDs to vote? Why did that issue die when the election was over? I'd say it is obvious what was going on with the voter ID laws. They were trying to keep people away from the polls by adding a requirement at the 11th hour. It was the timing that was troubling, not the idea. I'd support it if they were pushing for voter ID laws right now. But, if they wait until a month before the election and create chaos and confusion for voters who don't have an ID then I will be right back to being against it. Do it now and give people time to react and become compliant.

 

[GoIrish41]

Again...what else was packed into that bill?? Extending unemployment? Mortgage refinanicing? Bank infrastructure...Yeah, Fannie and Freddie was such a winner. It was another stimulus, and after the last COMPLETE FAILURE stimulus...it's not wonder it didn't pass.

And if the left was so concerned about jobs...Davis-Bacon should've been suspended or done away with. Forcing contractors to pay above market and or union wages cost us jobs.

Again, the left doesn't give a damn about small biz. Or growing the economy on the private side. Davis-Bacon is crippling us and should've been an obvious solution to jumpstarting job growth.

Also, government cannot create permanent jobs. How does building roads solve long term unemployment?

It stimulates the economy by putting more money in peoples' pockets. More money in their pockets means they can buy stuff. Them buying stuff creates demand. Increased demand makes businesses have to produce more. Businesses having to produce more means hiring more people to produce. As the highway projects come to a conclusion, there is a place for workers to go to get work in the private sector. At every step along the way, more taxes are being collected which could be used to lower the deficit.

 

[chicago51]

Again...what else was packed into that bill?? Extending unemployment? Mortgage refinanicing? Bank infrastructure...Yeah, Fannie and Freddie was such a winner. It was another stimulus, and after the last COMPLETE FAILURE stimulus...it's not wonder it didn't pass.
And if the left was so concerned about jobs...Davis-Bacon should've been suspended or done away with. Forcing contractors to pay above market and or union wages cost us jobs.

Again, the left doesn't give a damn about small biz. Or growing the economy on the private side. Davis-Bacon is crippling us and should've been an obvious solution to jumpstarting job growth.

Also, government cannot create permanent jobs. How does building roads solve long term unemployment?

People need to learn how to use google.

Look I don't have time to read the full bill so I just read the basics of it. However if you are going to comment that there is evil secret provisions in the bill, then you are welcome to read the full bill and point them out to us, otherwise I am going to give this notion you made zero credibility. Until then I'll assume the Republicans filibustered a bill that would have helped the economy and took money out of the pockets of small businesses.


Fact Sheet:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/jobs_act.pdf

Slightly more detailed fact site:

Fact Sheet and Overview | The White House

Full Bill:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/legislative/reports/american-jobs-act.pdf

 

[Ndaccountant]

It stimulates the economy by putting more money in peoples' pockets. More money in their pockets means they can buy stuff. Them buying stuff creates demand. Increased demand makes businesses have to produce more. Businesses having to produce more means hiring more people to produce. As the highway projects come to a conclusion, there is a place for workers to go to get work in the private sector. At every step along the way, more taxes are being collected which could be used to lower the deficit.

And where would that be?

If it were that simple, why wouldn't the government spend $5T on everything?

 

[Irish Houstonian]

MY breakdown of Obama's and the Democrat proposed budget:
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... what...still don't have one yet? ok, I'll wait .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... anyone wanna head over to the bar while we wait??????

5 years is a long time to wait at a bar.

 

[connor_in]

5 years is a long time to wait at a bar.

Its like being Norm of Cliffy

(that's a Cheers tv show reference for you younger guys - used to see that like 5 times a day on college)

 

[connor_in]

Anyone know the rules on voter ID for the papal election?

I was also gonna make a joke Obama's re-election and liken it to the papl election but figured I be called r@c!$t due to the whole papal election's use of certain colors of smoke...so I stopped myself and figured I avoided ugly comments towards me

 

[chicago51]

5 years is a long time to wait at a bar.

See Post 7225. I put links to plenty of Democrat budget or deficit proposals.

The President has put plenty of things forward. You may not agree but don't act like the Democrats don't have a plan. I'll admit I am not trilled the Senate didn't put a resolution out there, they should have but its Harry Reid's philosophy not put something out there that won't pass the House.

Today the Senate had a hearing on their budget:

It happened I listened to it on CSPAN Radio.

Senate Democrats offer budget plan with tax increases and spending cuts - NBC Politics

 

[DSully1995]

How does your government receive its funding without a budget passing???

 

[ACamp1900]

How does your government receive its funding without a budget passing???

In my best Andre the Giant voice… “Government have power... Government no need budget take money... Government enforce standards to people, not government… Government do all things good for government... MAH!!!!”

 

[DSully1995]

In my best Andre the Giant voice… “Government have power... Government no need budget take money... Government enforce standards to people, not government… Government do all things good for government... MAH!!!!”

Thats what it seems like, responsible government ftw

 

[chicago51]

How does your government receive its funding without a budget passing???

With continuing resolutions bills to keep it funded.

 

[Ndaccountant]

See Post 7225. I put links to plenty of Democrat budget or deficit proposals.

The President has put plenty of things forward. You may not agree but don't act like the Democrats don't have a plan. I'll admit I am not trilled the Senate didn't put a resolution out there, they should have but its Harry Reid's philosophy not put something out there that won't pass the House.Today the Senate had a hearing on their budget:

It happened I listened to it on CSPAN Radio.

Senate Democrats offer budget plan with tax increases and spending cuts - NBC Politics

That is the biggest problem. D's want to point figers at R's in the house, but the house has at least put something to a vote. The Senate doesn't want to. My question is, if the policies of the D's are so popular, why not vote on it to put pressure on the house to compromise?

 

[DSully1995]

That is the biggest problem. D's want to point figers at R's in the house, but the house has at least put something to a vote. The Senate doesn't want to. My question is, if the policies of the D's are so popular, why not vote on it to put pressure on the house to compromise?

Because the D's have been winning on blaming the house as the cockblocks?

 

[RDU Irish]

It never ceases to amaze me when white, middle to upper class males are so quick on the draw with accusations of racism. Walking past a couple of threatening looking African American males must have been very traumatic. I watched the video. It's some college geek looking for a story that isn't there.

Anyhow, I sure as hell do know what I'm talking about when it comes to racism. I've seen and experienced some pretty ugly racism first hand. Ever seen a white cop beat someone you knew with a mag flashlight because of the color of their skin? I have. Know anyone that was gunned down because they were Mexican? That my friend is racism. So spare me your pronouncements.

As Redbar stated equating some clowns from the "new black panther party" at one polling station with a couple hundered years of institutional racist policies is the height of ignorance and just more of the same horse crap that went on with the debate about ACORN and simply serves to distract from the real issue, that voter fraud is nowhere near the problem Fox News would like you to think it is and in fact is almost non exist. If people really want to know why minorities are spurning the GOP and conservative movement in genneral it's because of crap like this.

Two wrongs make a right. Got it. We already know that no minority can ever be racist so people are stupid here for trying.

Funny thing, we are fast approaching EVERYONE being a minority. Who the hell are we going to **** on about when there is no more majority?

 

[chicago51]

This is something that FDR, Kenneddy, and Johnson would be proud of: The Progressive Caucus Budget.

It is a lefty budget no doubt but it is less to the left than we were in say 1968. I would also say it is less to the left than Paul Ryan's is to the right.

It balances just like Paul Ryan's in 10 years. Unlike Paul Ryan it will create 7 million jobs. I know this won't even get voted on but it is a shame the media won't even give it any attention what so ever.

http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/uploads/Back to Work Budget - Executive Summary.pdf