Politics

[In Lou I Trust]

I might be in the minority here, but I think the questions were actually pretty good from the audience. I think the way they were asked was great, the problem was that neither candidate really answered them directly.

I didn't mind the audience asking questions I just think some of the questions were pointless and idiotic. It's only a 90 minute debate and you're telling Romney to compare himself to a former president. Why, then, did Obama get to compare Romney to Bush instead of himself to Clinton or Carter? Totally pointless. I don't know who is the bigger idiot... the person who came up with that question or Candy for choosing it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

The audience asked the questions. Crowley asked follow-up questions on the same topic. Don't completely disagree with you on the quality of the questions, but Crowley isn't to blame. These are apparently the things that uncedided voters in New York care about -- at least these particular undecided voters.

Actually Crowley chose all the questions prior to the debate.

 

[GoIrish41]

Actually Crowley chose all the questions prior to the debate.

She chose questions that were submitted by the audience. Heck, who knows how stupid the questions were that she didn't pick.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

She chose questions that were submitted by the audience.

Exactly. Which means she didn't have to choose the dumb ones.

 

[connor_in]

I wasn't aware that the left wasn't part of the regular voting public. I also disagree with much of your assessment. I'm left leaning (I know, shocker). I don't want anger, but I also don't want someone who is going to stand toe to toe with a guy and not fight back (Obama, first debate). Sure, I'd love to be inspired but I also want someone who will stand up for what I believe.

I may be mistaken, but I think Houstonian wasn't saying that the left wasn't part of the regular voting public. Basically, my guess is he was referring to general conventional wisdom that the wings of EACH party want their client to stand up for their beliefs and point out stridently that the other guy is wrong. His "regular voting public" is probably referring to the swing middle. Many of those in the middle last time were tired of the way things were and wanted a change. Obama in 2008 WAS all about hope and change and said he would bring people together. THOSE are the people that are the ones that will make the final difference in this campaign. If Obama cannot sell his contiuning vision, Romney will be elected if for no other reason than people don't like where things are now/are headed and will try something else. Thus, no matter what Obama tries, it eventually does boil down to a referendum on the first 4 yrs.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I may be mistaken, but I think Houstonian wasn't saying that the left wasn't part of the regular voting public. Basically, my guess is he was referring to general conventional wisdom that the wings of EACH party want their client to stand up for their beliefs and point out stridently that the other guy is wrong. His "regular voting public" is probably referring to the swing middle. Many of those in the middle last time were tired of the way things were and wanted a change. Obama in 2008 WAS all about hope and change and said he would bring people together. THOSE are the people that are the ones that will make the final difference in this campaign. If Obama cannot sell his contiuning vision, Romney will be elected if for no other reason than people don't like where things are now/are headed and will try something else. Thus, no matter what Obama tries, it eventually does boil down to a referendum on the first 4 yrs.

Thank you. Obama won Indiana for crying out loud! There are more swing voters out there than either candidate thinks. And they don't swing on anger.

 

[PraetorianND]

Those meme's are priceless. Thanks Wooly.

 

[DSully1995]

Just out of curiosity... why have the other parties been excluded from these debates?

Green Party Candidates Arrested, Shackled to Chairs For 8 Hours After Trying to Enter Hofstra Debate

You need several national polls showing like atleast 5% to be invited, not just on the numbers, but thats the jist of it

 

[DSully1995]

I thought the debate was a joke.

Did anyone care to bring up that women do not make 72% of what men make for equal work? Nope, because then you'd have to explain that that calculation is simple adding up all of the money earned by men and women for the year and is not at all representative of sexism whatsoever.

<iframe width="400" height="225" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EwogDPh-Sow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Did anyone bring up that the measuring system that Bernanke is using to measure inflation doesn't take into account two important things: the cost of fuel and the cost of food. HMMMMM, that might be important.

Did anyone care to bring up the Fed Reserve in general?

Again, Ron Paul being out there would have been a real bloodbath.

Ive never seena mainstream candidate bring up the Fed, It has political indepence i realize, but damn atleast talk about it its more important than even the POTUS for all americans. Like isnt time to change the school of thought running the place, Greenspan himself (pree sure) admitted he was wrong, why keep it going?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Really????
How about "You didn't build that!"??

I don't see how that is analogous. Obama never said he didn't say it. He provided context because he clearly wasn't making the point he was accused of making. That was demonstrable. In this case, Romney said he didn't say something that he clearly did say. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's black or white and 100% an issue of fact.

It's funny you use that example in an attempt to equivocate, because to me both are examples of how republicans operate and what makes them dispicable. As I've said many times, I am accepting of the fact that people have differing philosophies, and I don't dislike republicans because of their positions. But I do dislike republicans because of the tactics they employ and the shamelessness with which try to inject cynicism and misinformation into the discourse. I view it as a fundamentally dishonest and immoral movement. Again, having to do with approach rather than substance. I think it's important to differentiate between the two. But I don't view conservatives as loyal opposition. I view them as classless jerks.

 

[connor_in]

I don't see how that is analogous. Obama never said he didn't say it. He provided context because he clearly wasn't making the point he was accused of making. That was demonstrable. In this case, Romney said he didn't say something that he clearly did say. It isn't a matter of opinion. It's black or white and 100% an issue of fact.

It's funny you use that example in an attempt to equivocate, because to me both are examples of how republicans operate and what makes them dispicable. As I've said many times, I am accepting of the fact that people have differing philosophies, and I don't dislike republicans because of their positions. But I do dislike republicans because of the tactics they employ and the shamelessness with which try to inject cynicism and misinformation into the discourse. I view it as a fundamentally dishonest and immoral movement. Again, having to do with approach rather than substance. I think it's important to differentiate between the two. But I don't view conservatives as loyal opposition. I view them as classless jerks.

Fine I give on this thread...all you ever say about R's correct we are all evil and want to bring about the destruction of all life in this dimension start with women thru their lady parts...enslaving all minorities until the crumble to dust...poison the earth from the outside in...elect Obama the LightBringer God and Savior for all time to save all time and space

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Rhode Irish]

Fine I give on this thread...all you ever say about R's correct we are all evil and want to bring about the destruction of all life in this dimension start with women thru their lady parts...enslaving all minorities until the crumble to dust...poison the earth from the outside in...elect Obama the LightBringer God and Savior for all time to save all time and space

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, I didn't say any of that. Actually, I specifically said the opposite.

On issues, I disagree with republicans but I don't think (all) of their positions are inherently evil. My issue with republicans is that, because their agenda is not palatable to the majority of Americans, they resort to tactics that I find distasteful.

On a tactical level, I think the people leading the republican party are unethical and dishonest, and quite likely poor human beings. Whether they are right or wrong on economic issues, they could never win on them so they do two things: (1) trick stupid people into voting for them by co-opting crazy positions on social issues, and (2) demonize the other side and make them unelectable to unsophisticated voters based on absurd characterizations and innuendo. And when that isn't enough, they do a third thing, which is to try limit the other side's access to the polls. That doesn't seem like the approach of people who are comfortable with what they are selling to the people.

Now, I'm not saying that if YOU want to pay less taxes or whatever, then you're a poor human being. That is a policy choice (which I think is wrong, but not evil). But you are in bed with some pretty lousy people, and ultimately that is for you to decide whether you're comfortable with it.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Yeah, I didn't say any of that. Actually, I specifically said the opposite.

On issues, I disagree with republicans but I don't think (all) of their positions are inherently evil. My issue with republicans is that, because their agenda is not palatable to the majority of Americans, they resort to tactics that I find distasteful.

On a tactical level, I think the people leading the republican party are unethical and dishonest, and quite likely poor human beings. Whether they are right or wrong on economic issues, they could never win on them without tricking dumb people to vote for them by co-opting crazy positions on social issues.

Now, I'm not saying that if YOU want to pay less taxes or whatever, then you're a poor human being. That is a policy choice (which I think is wrong, but not evil). But you are in bed with some pretty lousy people, and ultimately that is for you to decide whether you're comfortable with it.

Just replace the word republicans with the word democrats and then I think you about nailed it.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Anyone see Ryan washing clean pots and pans at the soup kitchen after the hungry people left?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Anyone see Ryan washing clean pots and pans at the soup kitchen after the hungry people left?

Yeah, they were killing him on that last night (I think, or Monday). That guy has to be the biggest fraud of all time. Makes my skin crawl watching him or listening to him. That he has people convinced he is a "wonky" numbers guy is a joke.

 

[Bluto]

I thought the debate was a joke.

Did anyone care to bring up that women do not make 72% of what men make for equal work? Nope, because then you'd have to explain that that calculation is simple adding up all of the money earned by men and women for the year and is not at all representative of sexism whatsoever.

<iframe width="400" height="225" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EwogDPh-Sow" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Did anyone bring up that the measuring system that Bernanke is using to measure inflation doesn't take into account two important things: the cost of fuel and the cost of food. HMMMMM, that might be important.

Did anyone care to bring up the Fed Reserve in general?

Again, Ron Paul being out there would have been a real bloodbath.

Buster the statement about women making the same for doing the same job is a bit misleading in that it assumes women have equal access to say CEO positions, which if you look at the demographics for that and several other high paying professions that does not seem to be the case. Anyhow, there is a reason that women as a whole make less than men as a whole. What that reason is is debatable I suppose.

 

[Bluto]

Just replace the word republicans with the word democrats and then I think you about nailed it.

You know this is the same response I get when I challenge my Republican friends on the blatantly racist stuff put out by members of the GOP time and again and it's a complete copout. The GOP has a long sordid history of racist campaign propoganda as well as repeated attempts at disenfranchising people all in the name of voter fraud. I feel like I've demonstrated this pretty clearly in other threads so if you need me to I will rehash those references. The Democrats for all their faults (which there are many) simply do not engae in this type of crap as a matter of party policy and their national campaign strategy.

 

[ab2cmiller]

You know this is the same response I get when I challenge my Republican friends on the blatantly racist stuff put out by members of the GOP time and again and it's a complete copout. The GOP has a long sordid history of racist campaign propoganda as well as repeated attempts at disenfranchising people all in the name of voter fraud. I feel like I've demonstrated this pretty clearly in other threads so if you need me to I will rehash those references. The Democrats for all their faults (which there are many) simply do not engae in this type of crap as a matter of party policy and their national campaign strategy.

"put ya'll back in chains" must not fit your terms of racist. Oh yeah I forgot you can only be a racist if your a republican. Racism is a two way street and the democrats have been peddling their crap for a looooong time.

 

[Bluto]

"put ya'll back in chains" must not fit your terms of racist. Oh yeah I forgot you can only be a racist if your a republican. Racism is a two way street and the democrats have been peddling their crap for a looooong time.

As far as I know Joe Biden was applauded quite a bit at that NAACP speech. Anyhow, please provide me with a solid exams of this racism by the modern day Democratic Party. Do me a favor and google the name Lee Atwater and watch the documentary Boogie Man about him. He's the grand daddy of race baiting GOP campaign strategy. I'm using my phone so I'll post some clear examples of GOP race baiting after dinner. Adios.

 

[Rhode Irish]

As far as I know Joe Biden was applauded quite a bit at that NAACP speech. Anyhow, please provide me with a solid exams of this racism by the modern day Democratic Party. Do me a favor and google the name Lee Atwater and watch the documentary Boogie Man about him. He's the grand daddy of race baiting GOP campaign strategy. I'm using my phone so I'll post some clear examples of GOP race baiting after dinner. Adios.

I wouldn't even bother. No matter what you say, do, or demonstrate you're going to get the same mindless responses.

 

[ab2cmiller]

As far as I know Joe Biden was applauded quite a bit at that NAACP speech. Anyhow, please provide me with a solid exams of this racism by the modern day Democratic Party. Do me a favor and google the name Lee Atwater and watch the documentary Boogie Man about him. He's the grand daddy of race baiting GOP campaign strategy. I'm using my phone so I'll post some clear examples of GOP race baiting after dinner. Adios.

So Biden makes a comment that only stirs up racism and he gets applauded for it and that makes it ok????? I would think that the way your claiming to be holier than thou, you would be upset with that statement. You somehow can't see that the Democrats use race issues to divide and incite as well???? Have you been so blinded that you aren't able to see that? Obama and his buddy Biden have done their fair share of inciting but you view it as ok since it further's the liberal agenda.

 

[Bluto]

Here's one of the most infamous examples of GOP race baiting.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wTdUQ9SYhUw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bluto]

Here's a couple doozies from the Sharon Angle campaign

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oZn9ek95s-I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bluto]

So throw on top of that type of stuff the birther movement, the Obama is a Muslim disinformation and it is little wonder that the GOP is polling around 0 for its percentage of the black vote.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PQ6TdBldJd0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-RWmaBX6tKA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bluto]

Colin Powell criticizing the GOP on these very issues.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0lu0WXw5BxM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Conservatives are racist and Liberals are dependent on handouts. Oh... and all the Romney assassination threats/Tweets have been very mature.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Conservatives are racist and Liberals are dependent on handouts. Oh... and all the Romney assassination threats/Tweets have been very mature.

I don't think my point is getting across very well. I don't think many people that vote republican are racist, but just about ALL racist people that vote are republicans. My point, again, is that mainstream republicanism has made a deal with the devil in order to remain a viable political party. Maybe 35-40% of Americans subscribe to conservative economic theory. Well, 40% is not going to get you over the top in an election, so you have cobble together a coalition. And they've done it mainly by forwarding what is now considered a "conservative" social agenda that plays on our worst tendencies as people in order to get over the top. Now, the math is not exactly that simple, since there is some overlap among the two constituencies and the conservative social agend probably costs them votes of people that would support them on economic issues.

But the takeaway from all of that is that the same cunning and opportunistic a-holes that run the party and put together that coalition are also responsible for conservative messaging. Anyone on the left admires the extraordinary effectiveness of this messaging. These people are not dumb, but they are ruthlessly manipulative and exploitative and disengenuous-bordering-on-dishonest. And to the rest of the world that lives outside of the FOXNEWS/am radio/conservative blogosphere echo chamber, it is absolutely infuriating to watch.

By I do try to remember that 99% of conservatives I meet either just have a different economic worldview than I do or have been masterfully manipulated and don't really understand how crazy they sound. I don't think all of you guys are bad guys; I just have so much hatred for the Koch brothers of the world who want to buy this country and have it to themselves that its hard to stomach hearing regular people regurgitating their focus-group-tested nonsense.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I don't think my point is getting across very well. I don't think many people that vote republican are racist, but just about ALL racist people that vote are republicans. My point, again, is that mainstream republicanism has made a deal with the devil in order to remain a viable political party. Maybe 35-40% of Americans subscribe to conservative economic theory. Well, 40% is not going to get you over the top in an election, so you have cobble together a coalition. And they've done it mainly by forwarding what is now considered a "conservative" social agenda that plays on our worst tendencies as people in order to get over the top. Now, the math is not exactly that simple, since there is some overlap among the two constituencies and the conservative social agend probably costs them votes of people that would support them on economic issues.

But the takeaway from all of that is that the same cunning and opportunistic a-holes that run the party and put together that coalition are also responsible for conservative messaging. Anyone on the left admires the extraordinary effectiveness of this messaging. These people are not dumb, but they are ruthlessly manipulative and exploitative and disengenuous-bordering-on-dishonest. And to the rest of the world that lives outside of the FOXNEWS/am radio/conservative blogosphere echo chamber, it is absolutely infuriating to watch.

By I do try to remember that 99% of conservatives I meet either just have a different economic worldview than I do or have been masterfully manipulated and don't really understand how crazy they sound. I don't think all of you guys are bad guys; I just have so much hatred for the Koch brothers of the world who want to buy this country and have it to themselves that its hard to stomach hearing regular people regurgitating their focus-group-tested nonsense.

Personally, I think the worst tendency in people is to have sex but not want to deal with the baby, so get a doctor to chop it up and vacuum it out of its mother like its a piece of trash. But that's just the evil Republican in me talking. If i were sane i'd say, "any time a young woman choses to terminate a pregnancy, it a tragedy. But this vital medical procedure is a basic right that needs to be protected for the health of women."

Or how about: water boarding bad, drone strike at family reunion good. Apparently, there are no moral or legal issues if you shoot the guy in the face! (But he death penalty is still evil...). How do I say that one so I sound smart?

All racists are republicans? Wow. You need to get out more. No racism is Boston, huh?

You also need to realize that democrats are not some kind of stable unified majority. The country goes back and forth based mostly on the economy and defense. Do you really think Portland feminists and Ohio union workers have unified social values? Come on!

 

[DSully1995]

Personally, I think the worst tendency in people is to have sex but not want to deal with the baby, so get a doctor to chop it up and vacuum it out of its mother like its a piece of trash. But that's just the evil Republican in me talking. Or how about: water boarding bad, drone strike at family reunion good. There are no constitutional issues if you shoot the guy in the face!

All racists are republicans? Wow. You need to get out more. No racism is Boston, huh?

You also need to realize that democrats are not some kind of stable unified majority. The country goes back and forth. And Do you really think Portland feminists and Ohio union workers have unified social values? Come on!

This is just complete non-sense. By your sarcasm wars should never happen, or the subsequent prisoners can be done anything as if theyre still in the battlefield. I mean all troughout history prisoners have usually been treated with some respect, as they should be. The US cannot allow itself to go all Genghis Khan on its enemies

 

[Domina Nostra]

You need to read more history if you think water-boarding = Ghengis Khan.

And, while I am not pro-torture, I am also able to distinguish between a soldier captured on the battlefield and a civilian terrorist. We need categories that treat different things differently.

But my point is the exact opposite. Why should the morality of killing someone be so much more easily defensible than cAusing them pain? Why are drone strikes, especially around innocent family members, so obviously fine? I'm not saying they are wrong. I'm saying it is a strange juxtaposition.

I don't know a man alive who would not punch a kidnapper in the face if they thought it would lead them to their child. Is that "torture"? Do we all have an absolute right to be free of pain in those circumstances? Isn't that a lot different than bamboo under the finger nails to torment and humiliate a captured soldier? If not, Why not?