Politics

[Domina Nostra]

Just to be clear, I was acting crazy in response to my views being called crazy. I don't think any of that is helpful, but it does make things easier to just mock or dismiss the other side of an argument.

 

[Bluto]

So, the only thing I am pointing out us that racist themes have been consistent ones in GOP campaigns across the country over a very long period of time. I'm pretty sure they would not engage in this despicable nonsense if it was not effective. If you we're Latino, African American or Muslim what would this lead you to believe? Personally I think if they don't put a cork in it and soon that the GOP will be irrelevant (much the same way it is in most of California) based solely on the Demographic shifts taking place nation wide.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I am so disgusted when people bring race into politics. Just pandering to certain groups to get their votes, but speaking of racism...

1) Jeremiah Wright (Obama pastor of 20 years) talking about America being racist and the US of KKKA.

2) Van Jones (Obama's "green jobs czar") claiming white people contaminate water in black communities

3) Harry Reid talking about Obama being so successful beacuse he doesn't have a "negro dialect."

4) Joe Biden and his Muslims running all the 7/11's comment

I could go on and on and on but the double standards are nauseating. If you're a liberal, you're allowed to say whatever you want because you really stick up for every minority group in America.

If you're a conservative who says something that one person in this country deems "offensive", you're forever labeled a racist.

Here's my point: There are idiots on both sides of the aisle who say dumb $hit, but they're all not held to the same standard and are definitely NOT portrayed in the same light in the media.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I just don't see it. Most of the perceived racism in the Republican Party is just difference of opinion over policy, and then labeling the Republican position racist because of disparate impacts. For example, and this is oversimplifying thigs, the wage gap issue is not really about women getting paid less than men for the same work. Women do get paid less, but don't have less opportunities and don't get paid less when they take those opportunities. They make different choices. But the fact that that number exists is supposedly the end all be all. They need to make the same whether they are working less hours, demanding flex time, or whatever. Republicans look at legislation like the President passed and, based on experience, say, "that will do nothing but increase frivolous lawsuits." But that is supposedly doesn't matter because the intention of the law was good. In fact it's considered sexist.

Republicans look around the major urban areas in the country and conclude that the policies in place have been disastrous. If you live in those conditions you are probably scared to death that things will be even worse for you if the policies change, so people vote democrat. Republicans could jump on board with the same policies in the hope of getting those voters, but they don't think they work so they don't. Call that racist, but Republicans will carry on voting for people of any color or sex who agrees with their policies and live with it.

 

[Downinthebend]

I for one am not looking forward to the foreign policy debate (except for amusement). I'm not interested to watch Obama/Romney argue who will be tougher on China, more supportive of Israel, or draw a stricter line on Iran, or who will use more drone strikes. Bin***** will probably be mentioned 20 times.

Not sure how bin***** (l a d e n ) is beeped out..

 

[irishff1014]

I for one am not looking forward to the foreign policy debate (except for amusement). I'm not interested to watch Obama/Romney argue who will be tougher on China, more supportive of Israel, or draw a stricter line on Iran, or who will use more drone strikes. Bin***** will probably be mentioned 20 times.

Not sure how bin***** (l a d e n ) is beeped out..

I agree i understand it is part of it but we have more problems at home that need to be fixed.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Not sure how bin***** (l a d e n ) is beeped out..

There was a bin laaden poster who used to post porn pics durinf the season. Thats probably why.

 

[ab2cmiller]

You know this is the same response I get when I challenge my Republican friends on the blatantly racist stuff put out by members of the GOP time and again and it's a complete copout. The GOP has a long sordid history of racist campaign propaganda as well as repeated attempts at disenfranchising people all in the name of voter fraud. I feel like I've demonstrated this pretty clearly in other threads so if you need me to I will rehash those references. The Democrats for all their faults (which there are many) simply do not engage in this type of crap as a matter of party policy and their national campaign strategy.

Current Campaign
"They're going to put y'all back in chains!"

Voter ID Laws - Your response above is right in line with the standard Democratic response despite 75% support for voter id laws with 65% support from Blacks, the Democrats continue to fight this while trying to make it a race issue bringing up Jim Crowe and poll taxes.

2012 Launch of African Americans for Obama. Wonder what would happen if Romney launched a "Whites for Romney" campaign.

Response to Romney Welfare Ad - You can legitimately say that Romney is misleading and lying in those Campaign Ads, but the Democrats automatically twist it into a race issue without even a second thought.

Prior Campaigns

"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." (Sounds like someone's trying to paint a picture of a racist)

Obama actually got impatient waiting for McCain to make race an issue, so he did it himself. “They know that you’re not real happy with them and so the only way they figure they’re going to win this election is if they make you scared of me,” Obama continued, repeating an attack from earlier in the day. “What they’re saying is ‘Well, we know we’re not very good but you can’t risk electing Obama. You know, he’s new, he doesn’t look like the other presidents on the currency, he’s a got a funny name.’”

Accusing Hillary of darkening his skin in a campaign ad in the primaries

There's a whole litany of other race baiting issues that came up in the primaries with Hillary including ghettoizing Obama as a cocaine user, claiming "Bradley Effect" for loss in NH, suggesting Hillary minimized MLK by stating that it still took a President to pass the Civil Rights Act, and daring to compare Obama's coalition in South Carolina as being similar to Jesse Jackson's in 1984 and 1988.
Race Man | The New Republic

During President's Tenure

Obama speaking before all the facts came out said police acted "stupidly" when his friend Henry Louis Gate was arrested

Obama speaking before all the facts came out, while staying out of the fray for the most part did offer up the following "If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon".

Giving the New Black Panther Party a free pass for voter intimidation

Holder implied that part of the reason he and Obama were being held to account on Fast and Furious was that they were both African American

Bottom Line
As many of you have correctly pointed out, the Republicans have used race in the past and will probably continue to do so in probably less overt ways. But please spare me the whole spiel about the Democrats not resorting to the same things. Both sides do it in their own way. They will each use it when they think it's to their advantage and they will both refrain when they think it's not to their advantage. Unfortunately this is what politics has become, say and do anything to get elected. Win at all costs.

I'm tired of being painted as a racist just because I have different views then you outspoken Libs. I'm tired of anyone who dares to criticize anything that the President does, that they are told you must not like black people. I'm tired of both sides acting is if it's impossible that anything "their side" does could possibly be wrong. I admit the Republican's have many many flaws, but will any of you admit that the Dems have their own shortcomings

 

[ab2cmiller]

I do realize many of you have admitted shortcomings or flaws on the Democratic side, my blanket statement was not fair.

 

[RDU Irish]

Agree it is tough to see how Mr. Obama might have direct connection to the security detail decisions at that level...

Dumb is making Libya analogous to a lone crazed gunman...we are talking many guns and RPGs dude...they attacked with a plan. We are talking about people watching it unfold...and someohow it being portrayed as spontaneous reaction to a movie. I got two issues. 1) I don't know why Clinton, Obama, Rice were spewing that nonsense...but they aren't stupid people, so it was for a political benefit. 2) They rendered a man's life basically unliveable because of what he "said" in a movie . The Obama administration rained down on this guy, perp-walked him, made sure everyone knew his name...did so, at least in part, under the guise of the Libya attacks...knew when they did this to the guy, he had nothing to do with Libya...

Defend it...misdirect...whatever...its dirty...and #2 is dangerous(Edit:# 2 is always dangerous ...LOL at myself).

I think it was Jayhawk that commented that Romney whiffed big time on this. Greek states the issue well. While Obama "won" the debate/battle, he loses this war big time. He wants this issue swept under the rug b/c its a big time loser for him. The controversy created by Crowley's real time "fact check" attempt and parsing of words keeps this in the public eye longer. Plus, Obama ABSOLUTELY dodged the direct question, who was responsible. Romney didn't point that out either? On the main point, Romney was right and everyone knows it, which is why Obama couldn't wait to get to the next question.

I think Romney reinforced the concept of looking good enough to take over for the average un-decided. Obama did good to rev up the base and "win" the debate marginally, but I don't think the performance set him up for success, primarily b/c of Libya. He is caught in a two week lie, it undermines his claim that "Al Qaida is on the run" and he did not answer a very direct question on a topic that is hot and fresh.

That MSNBC focus group was similar to the other I saw, large move in Romney's favor. Remember, the perception of Romney has been framed by endless hate ads leading up to these debates. Undecideds see him unfiltered and can dismiss the hate. I was surprised to see this debate swayed anyone, let alone in Mitt's favor.

As far as the crowd demographics, OF COURSE THERE IS AN OBAMA LEAN! What republican leaning person is undecided? I heard one lady say, I'm voting for Mitt, before these two debates my choice was to not vote at all but he convinced me I can vote FOR him - from someone who voted for Obama last election. I see way more blue-dog dems in this category and if you are filling a room full of undecideds, you will have a big dem lean because more are in play than most believe. The McCain voter leaning toward Obama is pretty hard to find, disenchanted Obama voters are a dime a dozen.

I also see a similar result to Wisconsin's recall, lots talk a mean Dem game socially but in that booth they swing for the guy they know is right for the job. Union households are more divided than anytime in history, IMO.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I agree i understand it is part of it but we have more problems at home that need to be fixed.

I think most people feel this way. Its getting harder and harder to connect our foreign interventions with either (1) defense, or (2) a clear, narrowly construed national interest.

We need to accept the fact that we can't be everywhere at once, don't have infinite resources, and don't always know how to fix things (who is better Mubarak or the Muslim Brotherhood?).

 

[RDU Irish]

And the stage is set for the next debate on foreign policy, Romney gets another swing at this. Caught in an overt lie three weeks before an election is damaging.

I agree with above statement that this will be the lowest interest debate, Economy is a much higher interest topic than foreign policy, and these guys really aren't that different on foreign policy anyway (exception on defense spending, which I think is a net loser for Romney outside the base).

 

[Rhode Irish]

So, abc2m, your evidence that democrats are just as racist as republicans is a bunch of instances where democrats called out republicans for being racist? This clearly is not the conversation we need to be having right now. It's a distraction.

 

[GoIrish41]

Fine I give on this thread...all you ever say about R's correct we are all evil and want to bring about the destruction of all life in this dimension start with women thru their lady parts...enslaving all minorities until the crumble to dust...poison the earth from the outside in...elect Obama the LightBringer God and Savior for all time to save all time and space

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

finally, someone is making sense on this thread :awesomewo

 

[ab2cmiller]

So, abc2m, your evidence that democrats are just as racist as republicans is a bunch of instances where democrats called out republicans for being racist? This clearly is not the conversation we need to be having right now. It's a distraction.

Somehow I knew my efforts would be a waste of time. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Half of the items were related to Obama against Hillary in the primaries (translation - did not involve republicans). You probably didn't even click on the link. A reasonable person would admit that the democrats have used race in the past against each other and against the republicans, but I guess being reasonable was a bit to much to ask.

I agree it's been a distraction, but the whole racist stuff was brought up by your "partner in crime" (Disclaimer: In no way am I insinuating anything racial by that statement, it is simply a commonly used phrase) Bluto. So maybe you should talk to him.

You guys are chasing off anyone that dares to disagree with you, I'm sure you are happy about that. You mentioned something about classless jerks in a prior post, you might want to ponder on that one a bit more.

 

[Bluto]

Somehow I knew my efforts would be a waste of time. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Half of the items were related to Obama against Hillary in the primaries (translation - did not involve republicans). You probably didn't even click on the link. A reasonable person would admit that the democrats have used race in the past against each other and against the republicans, but I guess being reasonable was a bit to much to ask.

I agree it's been a distraction, but the whole racist stuff was brought up by your "partner in crime" (Disclaimer: In no way am I insinuating anything racial by that statement, it is simply a commonly used phrase) Bluto. So maybe you should talk to him.

You guys are chasing off anyone that dares to disagree with you, I'm sure you are happy about that. You mentioned something about classless jerks in a prior post, you might want to ponder on that one a bit more.

Should I or my padnaaah Rhode Irish call the whambulance? Lol.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rXJ-9QyJtEg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Bluto]

For the record if Jerimiah Wright was referring to the US as the United States of KKK in a histroical context his statement is pretty acurate. If you look back at the historic record in this country most whites prescribed to the ideas of white supremacy for the majority of this countries history.

Anyhow, I feel like a broken record. I know not all Republicans or conservatives are racist or all racists are conservative and republican. I do however, remain quite convinced that the GOP consistently incorporates racists themes and messaging in its campaigns. If you're comfortable aligning yourself with that that's fine. It's kind of like how fans of the SEC look the other way when it comes to the dispicable goings on in those programs.

 

[Bluto]

For the record if Jerimiah Wright was referring to the US as the United States of KKK in a histroical context his statement is pretty acurate. If you look back at the historic record in this country most whites prescribed to the ideas of white supremacy for the majority of this countries history.

Anyhow, I feel like a broken record. I know not all Republicans or conservatives are racist or all racists are conservative and republican. I do however, remain quite convinced that the GOP consistently incorporates racists themes and messaging in its campaigns. If you're comfortable aligning yourself with that that's fine. It's kind of like how fans of the SEC look the other way when it comes to the dispicable goings on in those programs.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

For the record if Jerimiah Wright was referring to the US as the United States of KKK in a histroical context his statement is pretty acurate..

I'm sure he was just being historical. He's a BIG history buff... seen here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vdJB-qkfUHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm not defending anything that Jeremiah Wright has said, but Allen West, who you posted previously, is much more of an idiot that Wright will every be.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I'm not defending anything that Jeremiah Wright has said, but Allen West, who you posted previously, is much more of an idiot that Wright will every be.

LOL . Thank you for your objective opinion.

 

[GoIrish41]

LOL . Thank you for your objective opinion.

I'm not sure many would disagree. Take a look at some of the nonsense that comes out of this guy's mouth: Rep. Allen West's 15 Most Outrageous Statements | ThinkProgress

This doesn't even include his latest gem where he says that 78 to 80 of members of congress are communists.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I'm not sure many would disagree. Take a look at some of the nonsense that comes out of this guy's mouth: Rep. Allen West's 15 Most Outrageous Statements | ThinkProgress

This doesn't even include his latest gem where he says that 78 to 80 of members of congress are communists.

I agree in saying that let's just say he's "out there" but to say he's "much more of an idiot" I don't think is even possible. I think you're underestimating Mr. Wright. LOL

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I'm not sure many would disagree. Take a look at some of the nonsense that comes out of this guy's mouth: Rep. Allen West's 15 Most Outrageous Statements | ThinkProgress

This doesn't even include his latest gem where he says that 78 to 80 of members of congress are communists.

I like Allen West and can admit that he leans quite far to the right but I couldn't even finish reading that garbage. Those are quite poor examples of someone who is supposedly worse than Wright. Hell, they could have easily been taken out of context but even if they weren't I think they pale in comparison to the posted video of Jeremiah Wright. Here are a few of Wright's gems: Your Right Hand Thief

 

[Bluto]

I'm sure he was just being historical. He's a BIG history buff... seen here:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vdJB-qkfUHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"America is a country controlled by rich white men". I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be schocked or offended by this. Take a look at the demographics of the CEO's of the Fortune 500, the largest banks in the US, Congress and the Supreme Court. Rich white guys win by a landslide.

Wright also said somethig to the effect that some white people hate Obama because he's black. Well that has pretty much been shown to be true. The best evidence being the Obama is a Muslim and from Kenya crap. According to Salon Tommy Thompsons son said something to the effect that we should send Obama back to Kenya and the best selling sticker at Stickatude.com is the "Don't Re-nig" 2012 sticker.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

"America is a country controlled by rich white men". I'm not sure why I'm supposed to be schocked or offended by this. Take a look at the demographics of the CEO's of the Fortune 500, the largest banks in the US, Congress and the Supreme Court. Rich white guys win by a landslide.

Wright also said somethig to the effect that some white people hate Obama because he's black. Well that has pretty much been shown to be true. The best evidence being the Obama is a Muslim and from Kenya crap. According to Salon Tommy Thompsons son said something to the effect that we should send Obama back to Kenya and the best selling sticker at Stickatude.com is the "Don't Re-nig" 2012 sticker.

Way to take that out of context. He wasn't just saying that America is controlled by rich white men; he was saying that because of this, black people struggle everyday. As for people hating Obama because he's black... do you think that EVERYONE who hates Obama hates him because he's black(half black at that)? No chance in hell. I'd be willing to bet that there are close to as many people who hate Romney on skin color alone. Please tell me that you're not of the ilk that believe black people aren't racist or are unable to be racist because of slavery.

 

[WaveDomer]

If you go by history, this election is likely over at this point. Romney is above 50% in Gallup and no candidate has lost once over 50% in mid October and it's nearly impossible for the POTUS to bring a challenger down under 50%. Undecideds break for the challenger. The only question might be if it's over early because Romney takes PA or if he has to wait for Ohio and Colorado to shake out.

Politics is always local. It really doesn't matter who says what stupid thing or who makes a mistake on the campaign trail. People are out of work, things are costing more, and real estate is bad. Local. All the public needed to know was that Romney wasn't some evil businessman who hates everyone and that he was competent. They found that out in the first debate. I could be wrong, history could be the wrong indicator, but I think it's over.

 

[Bluto]

Way to take that out of context. He wasn't just saying that America is controlled by rich white men; he was saying that because of this, black people struggle everyday. As for people hating Obama because he's black... do you think that EVERYONE who hates Obama hates him because he's black(half black at that)? No chance in hell. I'd be willing to bet that there are close to as many people who hate Romney on skin color alone. Please tell me that you're not of the ilk that believe black people aren't racist or are unable to be racist because of slavery.

A disproportionate number of Black people do "struggle" everyday. If there were a proportionate number of rich black people in positions of power maybe that would not be the case. I'm not sure why that is a controversal statement. Apparently you didn't read what I wrote carefully. I said its pretty obvious there is a significant number of white people who hate the current president simply because he's black. Saying there are as many people who hate Romney because he is white is not only a bit absurd but unless a huge number of white people hate him it's pretty much statistically impossible. Anyhow, no I don't believe blacks are incapable of bigotry. I do believe however, that African Americans do not hold positions of power in large numbers. That being the case even if all African Americans had racists views they would be unable to impose them on white people on a society wide level.

 

[DSully1995]

You need to read more history if you think water-boarding = Ghengis Khan.

And, while I am not pro-torture, I am also able to distinguish between a soldier captured on the battlefield and a civilian terrorist. We need categories that treat different things differently.

But my point is the exact opposite. Why should the morality of killing someone be so much more easily defensible than cAusing them pain? Why are drone strikes, especially around innocent family members, so obviously fine? I'm not saying they are wrong. I'm saying it is a strange juxtaposition.

I don't know a man alive who would not punch a kidnapper in the face if they thought it would lead them to their child. Is that "torture"? Do we all have an absolute right to be free of pain in those circumstances? Isn't that a lot different than bamboo under the finger nails to torment and humiliate a captured soldier? If not, Why not?

Hyperbole, but still a feeling of, oh we got him we can do what we want to get the answers. Also, America is "at war" with terror, which makes it the same thing for me, the fact that these people dont have a state allegiance does not make them any less of a PoW. Does not make the punching legal, and without a doubt will lead to abuses of baby-saving-punches if it were.