Politics

[In Lou I Trust]

A disproportionate number of Black people do "struggle" everyday. If there were a proportionate number of rich black people in positions of power maybe that would not be the case. I'm not sure why that is a controversal statement. Apparently you didn't read what I wrote carefully. I said its pretty obvious there is a significant number of white people who hate the current president simply because he's black. Saying there are as many people who hate Romney because he is white is not only a bit absurd but unless a huge number of white people hate him it's pretty much statistically impossible. Anyhow, no I don't believe blacks are incapable of bigotry. I do believe however, that African Americans do not hold positions of power in large numbers. That being the case even if all African Americans had racists views they would be unable to impose them on white people on a society wide level.

But do they struggle because the "country is controlled by rich white men"??? No. To blame "the man" for your struggles is lazy and a slap in the face to men like President Obama who have, despite the color of their skin, been successful.

As for your uneducated guess on the amount of people who hate each candidate on skin color alone I've got to ask; why is that absurd and statistically impossible?

 

[Bluto]

But do they struggle because the "country is controlled by rich white men"??? No. To blame "the man" for your struggles is lazy and a slap in the face to men like President Obama who have, despite the color of their skin, been successful.

As for your uneducated guess on the amount of people who hate each candidate on skin color alone I've got to ask; why is that absurd and statistically impossible?

To answer your first question I would answer yes it is quite plausible that a large number of African Americans struggle everyday because of rich white guys. The reason being that it is quite clear that rich white guys overwhelmingly wield the majority of power in this country. Now, that being the case is it too much to assume that they disproportionaly influence how the society we live in functions? If they do indeed play a major role in constructing the social fabric and the result of this construct is a large number of African Amricans struggling everyday, well then those pullin the levers of power do indeed bare responsibility.

Even if every African American hates Mitt Romney because he is white (which I doubt is the case) that only gets you to 12% of the total population. Whites on the other hand account for 72% of the total population. If you assume the same percentages of whites or African Americans hate either candidate based on skin color alone it would take large number of whites hating Mitt Romney's whiteness to make this balance out. That's why.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

To answer your first question I would answer yes it is quite plausible that a large number of African Americans struggle everyday because of rich white guys. The reason being that various national policies put in place by rich white guys such as not providing universal healthcare, cutting funding to public education and cutting welfare (most of which goes to children and the elderly) make poor and lower middle class African Americans "struggle everyday".

Even if every African American hates Mitt Romney because he is white (which I doubt is the case) that only gets you to 12% of the total population. Whites on the other hand account for 72% of the total population. If you assume the same percentages of whites or African Americans hate either candidate based on skin color alone it would take large number of whites hating Mitt Romney's whiteness to make this balance out. That's why.

1) Universal healthcare, cutting funding to public education and cutting welfare affects people of all color. To blame rich white men for this and any negative side effects is insulting.

2) Getting into a numbers argument about the percentage of people who hate each candidate based on skin color is assumptive and pointless. I was only trying to state that each candidate has their fair share of haters based on skin color. I don't know the numbers nor would I care to make, what would only be, an uneducated guess at it.

 

[Bluto]

1) Universal healthcare, cutting funding to public education and cutting welfare affects people of all color. To blame rich white men for this and any negative side effects is insulting.

2) Getting into a numbers argument about the percentage of people who hate each candidate based on skin color is assumptive and pointless. I was only trying to state that each candidate has their fair share of haters based on skin color. I don't know the numbers nor would I care to make, what would only be, an uneducated guess at it.

I edited my post probably when you were responding to mine but it's kind of the same. Anyhow, I agree that cutting those things does indeed impact people of all colors. The question then needs to be asked who is pursuing said policies? In my opinion it is predominately a group lead by rich white guys. So it seems Reverend Wright did have a point.

Anyhow, I am always surprised at how people try to equate a leader of a small parish with well funded propaganda machines backed by billionaires as being equally influential in terms of the power they wield and their ability to disseminate information right or wrong.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

If that were true about white people holding down black people how is it that there are so many successful blacks? It's well-documented that Obama did not come from money or privilege.

 

[woolybug25]

It's all over boys.... Obama has the biggest endorsement of the year.... Honey Boo Boo...

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[In Lou I Trust]

Makes me even more sure of my vote for Romney. Thank you, wooly.

 

[woolybug25]

Makes me even more sure of my vote for Romney. Thank you, wooly.

You must not be a fan of "Sketti"...

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[Rhode Irish]

Somehow I knew my efforts would be a waste of time. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Half of the items were related to Obama against Hillary in the primaries (translation - did not involve republicans). You probably didn't even click on the link. A reasonable person would admit that the democrats have used race in the past against each other and against the republicans, but I guess being reasonable was a bit to much to ask.

I agree it's been a distraction, but the whole racist stuff was brought up by your "partner in crime" (Disclaimer: In no way am I insinuating anything racial by that statement, it is simply a commonly used phrase) Bluto. So maybe you should talk to him.

You guys are chasing off anyone that dares to disagree with you, I'm sure you are happy about that. You mentioned something about classless jerks in a prior post, you might want to ponder on that one a bit more.

Honestly, I didn't have time to answer each thing you brought up. Busy day at work today. I could respond to each one of the instances you brought up now, but we'd just end up going around and around and around. I really don't like talking about this minutia, either. I'm a big picture person, and all of this he-said-she-said, "gotcha," cable news culture stuff is as small as it gets. I will just say that, generally, the type of things that you brought up are the type of things that ONLY the Rush Limbaughs and the Sean Hannitys of the world are interested in, and how systemic it is in the right wing echo chamber it is part of what I find infuriating about the conservative messaging machine. There is a stupidity-industrial-complex going on over there, and they are making a ton of money and political headway on the backs of "low information voters."

Now, I restrained myself from naming a list of things where I think the right has actually been terrible on this stuff because I want to stop talking about it. Not because I think it isn't a winning argument for me, but because it is NOT what is most important right now. Moreover, I really am not looking to get personal with anyone, and I'm not trying to impugn anyone's core beliefs. As I started this conversation saying last night - it is the tactics and the methods I object to, not peoples' ideas or beliefs.

 

[woolybug25]

Makes me even more sure of my vote for Romney. Thank you, wooly.

Not so fast.... Lindsey Lohan endorsed Romney.... unfortunetely, she isn't registered to vote.

 

[Bluto]

Not so fast.... Lindsey Lohan endorsed Romney.... unfortunetely, she isn't registered to vote.

Interesting development.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Not so fast.... Lindsey Lohan endorsed Romney.... unfortunetely, she isn't registered to vote.

At least Lohan was once very attractive so I see that as a plus for the Romney campaign...

 

[gkautz10]

At least Lohan was once very attractive so I see that as a plus for the Romney campaign...

She must be in one of his binders full of women

 

[Bluto]

If that were true about white people holding down black people how is it that there are so many successful blacks? It's well-documented that Obama did not come from money or privilege.

There are a bunch of ways to explain this. Some African Americans demanded access to power in the 60's vis a vis the Civil Rights movement. Others were able to parlay cultural power (sports, entertainment and education) to achieve success. Others might have gotten their foot in the door vis a vis affirmative action (the military is a good example of this).

Anyhow, this does not change the fact that African Americans have disproportionate levels of incarceration, receive the death penalty in disproportionate numbers for the same crimes, longer sentences for the same crimes, endure higher rates of poverty, higher levels of unemployment, lower levels of educational achievement and on and on when compared to their white counterparts.

Again, if rich, white guys are the ones running the show they have failed miserably to address issues facing African Americans as a whole and many of them are suffering daily as a result. With Mitt Romney being the embodiment of a "rich, white guy" is it any surprise he is polling at 0% of the African American vote?

Now back to Reverend Wright. What would have made his message much more powerful in my opinion? If he would have said that these same rich, white guys who are running the show and the society that they have constructed has been a pretty big failure for poor and working class whites (for the past 30 years anyways) as well as Latinos as a whole and these groups are also suffering as a result.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

So since you believe that the rich white man is making life difficult for the black man... how do they make it better?

 

[Bluto]

So since you believe that the rich white man is making life difficult for the black man... how do they make it better?

Socialize healthcare. Provide equitable funding to public education across the board. Free access to publicly funded higher education. Provide access to quality food and housing for those in need. Create some meaningful vocational training programs nation wide.

Those would be big ones. I would say that these would apply to anyone regardless of race.

 

[timm3117]

Not so fast.... Lindsey Lohan endorsed Romney.... unfortunetely, she isn't registered to vote.

Maybe she's registered to vote under a fake name, or 2, or 3, Its not like they can ID her, that might violate her civil rights.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Maybe she's registered to vote under a fake name, or 2, or 3, Its not like they can ID her, that might violate her civil rights.

Totally agree. I mean the market for illegal ID's to go vote is HUGE.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Socialize healthcare. Free access to publicly funded higher education. Create some meaningful vocational training programs nation wide.

Who the hell is paying for all of this? Subsidizing is part of the problem for rising health care costs and rising tuition costs.


The government can't handle money responsibly now, why the **** should we give them more?!

 

[Rhode Irish]

If that were true about white people holding down black people how is it that there are so many successful blacks? It's well-documented that Obama did not come from money or privilege.

I don't even know where to begin with this, but something is telling me that anyone that would make this point in a serious way would not have much use for the nuance involved in explaining it.

First of all, just to set the record straight, 99% of white people do not actively try to oppress black people, but that doesn't mean there aren't institutional obstacles. It isn't necessarily anyone's "fault," but that does not make it any less of a problem for our country. To your point, blacks don't succeed at the same rate as whites in this country, and it has nothing to do with innate ability attributable to genetics. Whenever any people get the opportunity to succeed, most do.

The sad reality is that less blacks have real opportunities, which is ultimately the consequence of socioeconomic reality. Blacks have less generational wealth, and rich kids tend to succeed at a higher rate of frequency than poor kids. There are over 40 million black people in this country, and they come from very diverse backgrounds. I would guess that the majority of the "so many" that you refer to come from the "best" backgrounds, socioeconomically speaking. Of course, the law of averages dictates that even some of the most underprivileged are going to be so unbelievably talented that they make themselves successful, but I am curious about what you mean by "so many"? White people typically don't have to unbelievably talented to live fairly comfortable lifestyles.

I just got to the end of typing this and I can't believe that I actually had to. Please tell me that you already understood all of this and I just wasted my time.

 

[Bluto]

Who the hell is paying for all of this? Subsidizing is part of the problem for rising health care costs and rising tuition costs.


The government can't handle money responsibly now, why the **** should we give them more?!

The rich, white guys who run everything of course. It's the least they could do as a thank you for Americans being the most productive workforce in the free world, while at the same time having their earnings remain flat for the better part of 30 years.

Anyhow, California was doing a pretty amazing job providing a world class education to all until that "anti tax and big government" ding dong Howard Jarvis came along with Prop 13. So the blanket statement that government is incapable of doing such things is false. The model was there for the rest of the nation until some curmudgeon old white guy torpedoed it.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Socialize healthcare. Provide equitable funding to public education across the board. Free access to publicly funded higher education. Provide access to quality food and housing for those in need. Create some meaningful vocational training programs nation wide.

Those would be big ones. I would say that these would apply to anyone regardless of race.

Wow... that sounds like a lot of taxes. Socialized healthcare will help no American, black, white or purple, improve their lot in life. More funding to public education? Do you think that more teachers, better books or cooler sports uniforms will encourage the kids who are already skipping school to start attending? We already have a welfare system for those in need. IT has been one of the biggest reasons why so many people in this country are poor or are in poverty. Welfare is supposed to be a safety net, not a hammock. Meaningful vocational programs? What kind?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I don't even know where to begin with this, but something is telling me that anyone that would make this point in a serious way would not have much use for the nuance involved in explaining it.

First of all, just to set the record straight, 99% of white people do not actively try to oppress black people, but that doesn't mean there aren't institutional obstacles. It isn't necessarily anyone's "fault," but that does not make it any less of a problem for our country. To your point, blacks don't succeed at the same rate as whites in this country, and it has nothing to do with innate ability attributable to genetics. Whenever any people get the opportunity to succeed, most do.

The sad reality is that less blacks have real opportunities, which is ultimately the consequence of socioeconomic reality. Blacks have less generational wealth, and rich kids tend to succeed at a higher rate of frequency than poor kids. There are over 40 million black people in this country, and they come from very diverse backgrounds. I would guess that the majority of the "so many" that you refer to come from the "best" backgrounds, socioeconomically speaking. Of course, the law of averages dictates that even some of the most underprivileged are going to be so unbelievably talented that they make themselves successful, but I am curious about what you mean by "so many"? White people typically don't have to unbelievably talented to live fairly comfortable lifestyles.

I just got to the end of typing this and I can't believe that I actually had to. Please tell me that you already understood all of this and I just wasted my time.

Please, Rhode... make more excuses for black people.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

And while you're at it... tell me how we make their lives better.

 

[WaveDomer]

Socialize healthcare. Provide equitable funding to public education across the board. Free access to publicly funded higher education. Provide access to quality food and housing for those in need. Create some meaningful vocational training programs nation wide.

Those would be big ones. I would say that these would apply to anyone regardless of race.

Since LBJ put forth the War on Poverty, untold amounts of money has been spent on just what you are talking about. The figure is probably above 16 trillion dollars. Poverty hasn't declined. We have all this stuff: food stamps, help for housing, tons upon tons of help for college, and money thrown at public schools.

Many of the bad decisions that put people in poverty are personal decisions. Dropping out of high school, getting pregnant young and unmarried, and not sticking to a job and climbing the ladder. This is from a book called Creating an Opportunity Society. If you do 3 things: graduate high school, don't have a kid until after 21 and after marriage, and work a full-time job, your chances of being in poverty go from 12% to 2%. The Brookings Institute did a lot of research on this as well. There are examples all over America of people who grow up in lousy situations, but do these things, and make it. There are also examples of people who come from good situations and don't do those things and struggle.

Obviously, if you start from a lousy situation, it is tougher, and the book points that out. However, the conclusion it comes to is that those 3 things are the biggest things to do if you want to stay out of poverty. Those are all personal choices and not government choices.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Since LBJ put forth the War on Poverty, untold amounts of money has been spent on just what you are talking about. The figure is probably above 16 trillion dollars. Poverty hasn't declined. We have all this stuff: food stamps, help for housing, tons upon tons of help for college, and money thrown at public schools.

Many of the bad decisions that put people in poverty are personal decisions. Dropping out of high school, getting pregnant young and unmarried, and not sticking to a job and climbing the ladder. This is from a book called Creating an Opportunity Society. If you do 3 things: graduate high school, don't have a kid until after 21 and after marriage, and work a full-time job, your chances of being in poverty go from 12% to 2%. The Brookings Institute did a lot of research on this as well. There are examples all over America of people who grow up in lousy situations, but do these things, and make it. There are also examples of people who come from good situations and don't do those things and struggle.

Obviously, if you start from a lousy situation, it is tougher, and the book points that out. However, the conclusion it comes to is that those 3 things are the biggest things to do if you want to stay out of poverty. Those are all personal choices and not government choices.

Great post!! I've never said that climbing out of poverty would be easy for anyone, regardless of color, but it's all about WANTING a better life. If you don't want better for yourself and you don't strive for success, no amount of government assistance is going to bring you out of the dumps.

 

[Bluto]

Wow... that sounds like a lot of taxes. Socialized healthcare will help no American, black, white or purple, improve their lot in life. More funding to public education? Do you think that more teachers, better books or cooler sports uniforms will encourage the kids who are already skipping school to start attending? We already have a welfare system for those in need. IT has been one of the biggest reasons why so many people in this country are poor or are in poverty. Welfare is supposed to be a safety net, not a hammock. Meaningful vocational programs? What kind?

I'll just agree to disagree on healthcare.

As for education a 15 to 1 student to teacher ratio along with an aide would do wonders for classroom performance. As would funding for experiential learning opportunities, the arts and PE (all of which are the first to see the axe). If not a single nickle was spent on computers for K-6th that would be fine with me.

As for welfare Buster posted something quite interesting about increasing the benifit but at the same time increasing the demand (volunteering, taking job training courses ect). I thought this was a great idea.

Finally in terms of vocational training it would be nice to see experiential training in basic heavy equipment operation and repair, cad training, computer modeling and the like be a bigger part of high school and or junior college education and receive funding. Kind if like FFA but for other fields besides animal husbandry.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Please, Rhode... make more excuses for black people.

So enlighten me....what is it about black people that causes less of them to succeed and more of them to live in poverty? You're saying it has nothing to do with their history in this country?

 

[RallySonsOfND]

The rich, white guys who run everything of course. It's the least they could do as a thank you for Americans being the most productive workforce in the free world, while at the same time having their earnings remain flat for the better part of 30 years.

Anyhow, California was doing a pretty amazing job providing a world class education to all until that "anti tax and big government" ding dong Howard Jarvis came along with Prop 13. So the blanket statement that government is incapable of doing such things is false. The model was there for the rest of the nation until some curmudgeon old white guy torpedoed it.

Come back to reality please. Rich old white men are the reason those jobs exist in the first place. Rich old white men are responsible for my choice in my career path and all the summer and part time jobs I've had. I can think of 2 rich old white men I'm related to that have created 100+ jobs for people.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Come back to reality please. Rich old white men are the reason those jobs exist in the first place. Rich old white men are responsible for my choice in my career path and all the summer and part time jobs I've had. I can think of 2 rich old white men I'm related to that have created 100+ jobs for people.

Agree. If old white guys weren't around I would have no idea what to do with my life. Probably still be a savage somewhere in the jungles of Mexico.