Politics

[Buster Bluth]

I wish Ron Paul were up there last night. That would have been your bloodbath.

 

[Bluto]

I wish Ron Paul were up there last night. That would have been your bloodbath.

You could say the same for Bernie Sanders. Actually that would be and interesting ticket. Sanders and Paul that is.

 

[Quinntastic]

I'm about ready to see this thread die out. It's exhausting to read it anymore.

I think the debates are all just a huge waste of time anymore. Back in the 60's when the only real way to keep tabs on the candidates was through newspaper articles and the (brief) evening news on TV, having a set-aside time for the candidates to discuss where they stood on the issues was fine. But in this modern day of 24 hour news cycles, Internet, and constant tv/radio/newspaper ads, there's really no need for it. I'm not getting any more answers from the candidates through these debates. They're just throwing around their campaign statements and canned comments. If I *really* want to know what they're all about, I go to some fact-checker websites. And *sarcastic gasp* do my own research! What a novel idea!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I like Ron Paul on policy, but he debates like a confused hobbit.

 

[irishpat183]

I like Ron Paul on policy, but he debates like a confused hobbit.

Exactly.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Obama slept through the debate last week. Biden giggled through the debate last night. Didn't do his ticket any favors with independent voters.

I don't think independent, undecided voters were really in play last night. The debate wasn't about them because they aren't going to vote for President based on who won the VP debate. Last night was about reenergizing the liberal base for the fight over the next few weeks. As harmful as Obama's performance may have been from a polling perspective, those kinds of shifts tend to soften over time and there is plenty of time to cut into Romney's gains. The real problem was that it took a toll on liberal enthusiasm, which could have a more lasting effect on the election than a post-debate bounce for Romney with a month to go.

 

[connor_in]

Obama slept through the debate last week. Biden giggled through the debate last night. Didn't do his ticket any favors with independent voters.

Maher's comment after prez debate last week fits here too...

It seems the current admin smokes weed before debates

(FYI, some reporter did mention Biden munching on M&M's and animal crackers pre-debate)

 

[Buster Bluth]

You could say the same for Bernie Sanders. Actually that would be and interesting ticket. Sanders and Paul that is.

Yeahhhhh...

 

[Bluto]

Yeahhhhh...

Haha. Come on dude. It'd be Oscar and Felix go to the White House. Turn it into a reality TV show, throw in some Jersey Shore and Honey Boo Boo cameos and after four seasons the deficit is paid off.

 

[connor_in]

I don't think independent, undecided voters were really in play last night. The debate wasn't about them because they aren't going to vote for President based on who won the VP debate. Last night was about reenergizing the liberal base for the fight over the next few weeks. As harmful as Obama's performance may have been from a polling perspective, those kinds of shifts tend to soften over time and there is plenty of time cut into Romney's gains. The real problem was that it took a toll on liberal enthusiasm, which could have a more lasting effect on the election than a post-debate bounce for Romney a month out from the election.

While I agree with this, if SNL decides to go after this (and they have done Joe before) and actually DO IT (not like the half hearted attempt by Jay Pharoh at the start of last weeks show), it could gain some traction and and hurt slightly with independents (I think the Gore lockbox of SNL debates and Kerry & Palin parodies hurt slightly, but Ferrell's Bush just made W seem more affable)> SNL does not like to beat up on D's anywhere near R's but when they find comedy gold and mine it effectively, it can get into the zeitgeist and make a slight impact in peoples minds.

Outside of that, this debate was just Schroedinger's cat

 

[tadman95]

Wall Street Journal:

Obama and Romney on the Issues - WSJ.com

 

[phgreek]

I'm about ready to see this thread die out. It's exhausting to read it anymore.

I think the debates are all just a huge waste of time anymore. Back in the 60's when the only real way to keep tabs on the candidates was through newspaper articles and the (brief) evening news on TV, having a set-aside time for the candidates to discuss where they stood on the issues was fine. But in this modern day of 24 hour news cycles, Internet, and constant tv/radio/newspaper ads, there's really no need for it. I'm not getting any more answers from the candidates through these debates. They're just throwing around their campaign statements and canned comments. If I *really* want to know what they're all about, I go to some fact-checker websites. And *sarcastic gasp* do my own research! What a novel idea!

I get the sentiment, and the wish/hope people would do their own research

I think it would be hard to deny the 1st presidential debate moved the needle. So however silly or mundane...somebody saw something that mattered to them.

Also, I do see value in understanding how a person approaches contentious issues...the success of foreign and domestic policy relies in some part on substance and some part delivery ...to a not very receptive audience. I could live with one debate though.

That said...it is odd to me that many people saw something in PD#1 that it moved the needle...WTF were these people doing before last week?

 

[In Lou I Trust]

As a former Biden supporter this was embarrassing. I found myself wanting to punch Biden in the face because of his childish antics. I understand that he was probably just doing what his party advised by bullying Ryan but the way he went about it was amateur at best. Romney, even IF he lied his *** off last week, APPEARED knowledgeable. It was that command of the debate that made Obama look even worse than he made himself look. Biden, however, decided to turn a debate into a middle school argument instead. The most obvious sign of that was his interrupting Ryan by yelling "Oh, you're Jack Kennedy now!?" Whatever it takes to get people talking about you I guess. Bad press is better than no press...

 

[bobbyok1]

I get the sentiment, and the wish/hope people would do their own research

I think it would be hard to deny the 1st presidential debate moved the needle. So however silly or mundane...somebody saw something that mattered to them.

Also, I do see value in understanding how a person approaches contentious issues...the success of foreign and domestic policy relies in some part on substance and some part delivery ...to a not very receptive audience. I could live with one debate though.

That said...it is odd to me that many people saw something in PD#1 that it moved the needle...WTF were these people doing before last week?

Most Americans do not want to sit around and watch the "News" media circle jerk for whatever biased side they are on for months on end. One month of politics discussions is about all most people can stand. I think this is in large part due to a general ignorance by most Americans of the issues at hand. Therefore once you start to wade out into the depths of political/socio-economic issues, it can become overwhelming for most who do not follow it closely on a regular basis.

So, the Presidential debates make a nice and neat one-month package to pay attention to and then make an at least semi-informed decision. Just my two cents

 

[RDU Irish]

After hearing Joe Biden accuse Ryan of "conflating" an argument - I knew then and there where Bogs had disappeared to.....

 

[tadman95]

Bogs may be more influential that we know.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

"When a wise man debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet." - Proverbs 29:9

 

[ab2cmiller]

"When a wise man debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet." - Proverbs 29:9

LOL

 

[Bluto]

"When a wise man debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet." - Proverbs 29:9

Bible quotes in a political thread. Great.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Bible quotes in a political thread. Great.

This isn't France. America has mixed politics and religion from Day 1.

And proverbs are meant to capture timeless wisdom. What difference does it make where is came from? Would it be better if he just attributed it to FDR or someone?

Here is a little quote from our President:

Finally, I try to make sure that my faith informs how I live my life. As a husband, as a father, and as president, my faith helps me to keep my eyes on the prize and focus on what is good and truly important.

 

[Bluto]

This isn't France. America has mixed politics and religion from Day 1.

And proverbs are meant to capture timeless wisdom. What difference does it make where is came from? Would it be better if he just attributed it to FDR or someone?

Here is a little quote from our President:

Finally, I try to make sure that my faith informs how I live my life. As a husband, as a father, and as president, my faith helps me to keep my eyes on the prize and focus on what is good and truly important.

This is why. Manifest destiny was a real bummer for millions of people all in the name of God. Anyhow, good for the President. Notice he was not using his faith to belittle those with opposing views. Here's a quote from the Texas GOP platform that seems to confirm this as a bad idea.

"Our policy is based on God's biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise."

Awesome way to develop a Middle East policy. Lol.

Cue religious white guys harping about religious intolerance...

 

[Buster Bluth]

Anyhow, good for the President. Notice he was not using his faith to belittle those with opposing views. Here's a quote from the Texas GOP platform that seems to confirm this as a bad idea.

"Our policy is based on God's biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise."

Awesome way to develop a Middle East policy. Lol.

Cue religious white guys harping about religious intolerance...

I agree.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

..."Our policy is based on God's biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise."...

I don't know about the biblical stuff, but vis a vis Israel that's exactly how I feel.

 

[GoldenTerp]

We need a dictatorship for a few years.

I worked for a Federal Agency and we woukl have love to cut staff and reduce office locations. But the Congressmen with offices in their district wouldnt dare give up one of our offices up.

Its pretty similiar with the post office. The US Postal Service would love to close down tons of offices but as soon as they plan to shut one down. The congressman from that distrcit puts his foot down.

 

[tadman95]

We need a dictatorship for a few years.

I worked for a Federal Agency and we woukl have love to cut staff and reduce office locations. But the Congressmen with offices in their district wouldnt dare give up one of our offices up.

Its pretty similiar with the post office. The US Postal Service would love to close down tons of offices but as soon as they plan to shut one down. The congressman from that distrcit puts his foot down.

Chaney

J/K

 

[Irish Houstonian]

We need a dictatorship for a few years.

I worked for a Federal Agency and we woukl have love to cut staff and reduce office locations. But the Congressmen with offices in their district wouldnt dare give up one of our offices up.

Its pretty similiar with the post office. The US Postal Service would love to close down tons of offices but as soon as they plan to shut one down. The congressman from that distrcit puts his foot down.

The Line Item Veto was pretty close to this idea -- it gave Clinton the authority to scratch any pork from a spending bill or budget he didn't like. So lawmakers couldn't hold legislation hostage or sneak in wasteful spending.

But the Sumpreme Court struck that down on the basis that it violated legislative principles. (Scalia wanted to uphold it, and his dissent made the majority look retarded for taking this position).

 

[phgreek]

Most Americans do not want to sit around and watch the "News" media circle jerk for whatever biased side they are on for months on end. One month of politics discussions is about all most people can stand. I think this is in large part due to a general ignorance by most Americans of the issues at hand. Therefore once you start to wade out into the depths of political/socio-economic issues, it can become overwhelming for most who do not follow it closely on a regular basis.

So, the Presidential debates make a nice and neat one-month package to pay attention to and then make an at least semi-informed decision. Just my two cents

...yea, I get what you are saying...BTW...I'm no political junkie...I read a couple times a week from right to left and try to avoid the TV people...and if it isn't clear...I am a Romney voter and have been for quite some time FWIW.

I assumed Romney's bump was due to poltically engaged undecideds rejecting the empty suit characature...

Maybe many hadn't paid attention to any of it at all, identified as undecided for that reason, and just engaged on debate night, and liked what Romney did/said better...

Wish that weren't how things worked...not sure if it is...but its plausible.

 

[phgreek]

"When a wise man debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs, and there is no peace and quiet." - Proverbs 29:9

Hornet's nest...stick

stick...Hornet's nest


BAM...BAM...BAM (sound of running feet)

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

(the rest of us...) HEY, WTF ...? OUCH! SON OF A.....


Dude I laughed for 10 minutes when I read this because I knew what would happen...

 

[BobD]

You mean like the guy who started this thread because he was ... "curious" but has his guy listed first?

And than savaged the other team throughout the thread.

I can't say that I've heard heard Luntz savage the other side nor have I heard the CNN Focus Group Moderator savage the republicans. I do recall Luntz pointing out in this and past debates areas where each parties points have scored points or lost them.

He's neither Rush nor Ed.

I''m THAT guy. Would listing them in a different order change the outcome with three options? Did someone tire before they could make it to the third option?

I don't remember "savaging" anyone? Was it enjoyable for both of us?

 

[enrico514]

Loved (probably because I agree) Ron Paul's comments today:

"There is essentially no difference between one administration and another, no matter what the platform."