Politics

[DSully1995]

Obama got exposed on Wednesday because liberals don't have economically sound policies.

If you like high gas prices, $4000 increased in taxes, economic stability through part time job growth, 25mil people out of work, $800 billion cut from Medicare, increased food prices, and inflation because we are buying our own debt, vote for Obama.

His attacks are so off the wall that more and more people are seeking the truth. He is in deep trouble in November.

Democrats have created more jobs in the past 40 years than republicans, if your gonna make blanket statements, make sure they factual

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Without plunging oneself into debt/bankruptcy? Yes...

We are extremely financially stable, tuition increases slower than other schools, and continue to maintain a 10:1 Faculty to Student ratio! AND our tuition is among the lowest among private colleges in Michigan!


I do want to know though, why you don't like Hillsdale? And if you say because of politics I will seriously laugh my *** off.

 

[irish1958]

This thread I'd like crack cocaine; once you get started it is hard to stop.

"If you like high gas prices, $4000 increased in taxes, economic stability through part time job growth, 25mil people out of work, $800 billion cut from Medicare, increased food prices, and inflation because we are buying our own debt, vote for Obama."
Actually, high gas prices is a fairly good idea and, no matter what we do it will happen anyway.
The $4000 increase is over ten years not one and will raise about 1.5 trillion dollars. Unless we either shoot or starve a lot of old people, gays, gypsies, Jews, colored and other 47% of undesirables it will be necessary to raise at least this much in new taxes if one's goal is a balanced budget. (My bad; this was tried in the late '30's and didn't end well.)
A lot of the of the undesirable 47% are thrilled to be working part time, as are a bunch of Mexicans who keep sneaking across our Southern Border. The Canadians have too much class to do this. They just come down on jets when it gets too cold there.
As I mentioned before, I an not good in Economics. Mr. Obama has proposed a sizable increase in Medicare over the next decade, but hopes to include enough controls and applications of evidence-based medicine to slow the growth by 800 billion over the next ten years. I guess in Economics this constitutes a cut.
Incidentally if we were to institute a requirement that all medical care be based upon evidence-based standards we could balance the federal budget and have enough left over for a party. (As an aside: true story. An unnamed surgeon at an unnamed medical center had devised a new procedure. When he was asked by the hospital how much to charge the insurance company he told them to find out how much the most expensive medical procedure and to just double that. Which they did and that became the basis for reimbursement throughout the country.)
Our failure to address the global warming disaster with the projected drying out of the Midwestern bread basket will have a profound effect on our future food prices, far more than paying the migrant farm workers a living wage. (Wait, they don't pay taxes. We can ignore them as they are part of the lazy, indolent and dependent 47%.)
Inflation is a built-in tax on any wealth not based on fixed assets, especially on scarce and limited fixed assets. Most governments count on this and try to keep it about 3%. This actually forces some, but limited redistribution of wealth which is a good thing. The end of feudalism did this also and except for a few kings or dukes, most people feel this was a good thing.
I am not sure policy by slogans, focus groups and 30 second commercials is a good thing. "Thinking is something they have never tried; they should do something about what's inside!" Henry Higgens
But I digress. I am going to watch some football.

 

[PraetorianND]

Obama got exposed on Wednesday because liberals don't have economically sound policies.

If you like high gas prices, $4000 increased in taxes, economic stability through part time job growth, 25mil people out of work, $800 billion cut from Medicare, increased food prices, and inflation because we are buying our own debt, vote for Obama.

His attacks are so off the wall that more and more people are seeking the truth. He is in deep trouble in November.

Let's just hope Romney doesn't close the mortgage interest deduction, education deductions, or health care deductions. That would most definitely impact the low/middle class far more than the upper class because it will be such a larger portion of disposable income for those who earn less. Romney can characterize this as a tax cut and closing of loopholes but really it's a tax increase on the low/middle class.

 

[Quinntastic]

We are extremely financially stable, tuition increases slower than other schools, and continue to maintain a 10:1 Faculty to Student ratio! AND our tuition is among the lowest among private colleges in Michigan!


I do want to know though, why you don't like Hillsdale? And if you say because of politics I will seriously laugh my *** off.

Since this is off the topic entirely, I will PM it to you.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

What about Richard Hayes and the invisible trash collectors!?!? Who's gonna look out for them? Romney = no more hugs and Gatorade.

 

[tadman95]

While I am at it, I have a complaint about the president's poll in this thread. I am from Chicago and our civic duty there is to vote early and often. I have voted early but the stupid poll will not let me vote any more times.
This us unfair and the moderators should look into the motives of those conducting the poll.

Create a Bot, then create multiple accounts, vote early, vote often.

C'mon man, you're from Chicago! Get your game on!

 

[jason_h537]

As an American I am happy when theses numbers drop. As a natural skeptic, I am curious when it drops so radically such a short time before an election when we don't seem to see much improvement in most other aspects of the economy. I know my friends on the left may doubt me but if this same surprising radical shift happened under a R prez I would be skeptical as well. Just because I lean R politcally does not mean I believe everything they tell me either.

It dropped 0.3% points. That is not a radical drop. The reason it is getting so much crap is because now Obama can say he kept his promise that he would have unemployment below 8% by the end of his first term.

 

[enrico514]

It dropped 0.3% points. That is not a radical drop. The reason it is getting so much crap is because now Obama can say he kept his promise that he would have unemployment below 8% by the end of his first term.

The more inclusive U6 unemployment rate that does a much better job at capturing underemployment, remains stubbornly stuck at 14.7%.

 

[jason_h537]

The more inclusive U6 unemployment rate that does a much better job at capturing underemployment, remains stubbornly stuck at 14.7%.

No one has brought up U6 until now, funny. Hey U1 has unemployment at 4% We're back everyone!!!!!! U6 counts part time workers as unemployed.

 

[Buster Bluth]

No one has brought up U6 until now, funny. Hey U1 has unemployment at 4% We're back everyone!!!!!! U6 counts part time workers as unemployed.

It counts them as underemployed. 50% of college grads can't find work in their field. Working at Denny's handing out pizzas is not the sign of an economic comeback.

I heard that at this rate it would take us until 2025 to get back to where we were. Any truth to that?

 

[jason_h537]

It counts them as underemployed. 50% of college grads can't find work in their field. Working at Denny's handing out pizzas is not the sign of an economic comeback.

I heard that at this rate it would take us until 2025 to get back to where we were. Any truth to that?

Get back to where we were when? We are back to where we were before the economic collapse of 08. It would take until 2021 to get to 98% unemployment. But that is taking into account a congress that refuses to do nothing but gut social programs. If we re-hired every teacher, cop, firefighter laid off since 08 unemployment would be under 6% right now. Of course U6 would say otherwise but even in solid economic times U6 is at 10% or higher.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

U6 rate since 1994... Portal Seven | U6 Unemployment Rate

 

[jason_h537]

U6 rate since 1994... Portal Seven | U6 Unemployment Rate

My bad, average at 9 instead. Regardless you can't expect jobs through tax cuts only. If that were the case we would be in an economic boom. We are currently paying the lowest percentage of taxes in 80 years. Maybe, just maybe... hear me out guys. If republicans priority was something other than making Obama a 1 term president, we might be in a better situation. When Cantor and Boehner define comprimise as doing what we want or nothing at all, there is a problem. Presidents do not legislate.

 

[irish1958]

It counts them as underemployed. 50% of college grads can't find work in their field. Working at Denny's handing out pizzas is not the sign of an economic comeback.

I heard that at this rate it would take us until 2025 to get back to where we were. Any truth to that?

I am not sure we will ever be able to fully employ college graduates who insist upon majoring in Coptic dialectics of the fourteenth century, the beauty of the left side of the Mona Lisa or the interaction of the various factions in the war of the roses and so forth.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I am not sure we will ever be able to fully employ college graduates who insist upon majoring in Coptic dialectics of the fourteenth century, the beauty of the left side of the Mona Lisa or the interaction of the various factions in the war of the roses and so forth.

That is 50% of college graduates?

 

[GoIrish41]

It's not unusual and never has been that people doen't get jobs in their majors. 50% might be a little higher than normal, but not much. Half the people I know are working in a different field than they went to school for.

 

[Quinntastic]

It's not unusual and never has been that people doen't get jobs in their majors. 50% might be a little higher than normal, but not much. Half the people I know are working in a different field than they went to school for.

Agreed. there are a lot of factors contributing to all of the ails of the country. One contributing factor to unemployment is less elderly people are retiring. Partially due to the age to be eligible to retire and get Social Security benefits is consistently rising. Partially due to the fact that cost of living is increasing, but social security benefits are not increasing at the same rate - making it nearly impossible for elderly people to live comfortably after retirement. This means that elderly people are being forced to work well past retirement age, meaning those jobs are not opening up for the new graduates coming into the work force. This means not enough elderly are leaving the workforce (where they wouldn't be counted as "unemployed" anyway) for their younger counterparts to take over.

Another contributing factor to unemployment is that manufacturers began sending their jobs out of the country (where they could get the labor for cheap), that put many (many) Americans out of a job. Detroit, in particular, was gutted from the absolute hemorrhaging of jobs out of the country. The auto industry, indeed, counted on unskilled laborers to manufacture their cars. The union got greedy about money and started demanding that people with little more than a high school education (sometimes even less), be paid $20-30 an hour for unskilled labor. The auto companies, with that kind of cost, probably couldn't help but send the jobs overseas where the same unskilled labor could be obtained for $3-5 an hour. So now, those unskilled laborers in the manufacturing sector who were used to making $50-80,000 a year for putting cars together could no longer afford their upscale, suburban, homes (nor their vacation homes in Northern Michigan, in the case of most Detroit auto workers). Those houses then went into forclosure. Those unskilled laborers, without a marketable skill, and without the education to be versatile, became either unemployed, or employed at a minimum wage job. This then became a contributing factor for both the housing market bubble and the tourism industries in the towns where these vacation homes were built.

My point is that there are a lot of contributing factors to all the ails of the country: unemployment, underemployment, housing, the deficit, etc. There is no "one thing" that caused any of those things. But, I would argue, a more mixing and mashing of different problems that had its beginnings many years ago (well before Obama was in office) that's ripples have spread and grew to affect many other issues. Much like a domino effect where the dominoes are falling every which way, sending chains falling this way, which hit another chain that starts falling in another way.

 

[RDU Irish]

U6 rate since 1994... Portal Seven | U6 Unemployment Rate

WTF with this site unable to draw a graph more than 22 years?

 

[enrico514]

No one has brought up U6 until now, funny. Hey U1 has unemployment at 4% We're back everyone!!!!!! U6 counts part time workers as unemployed.

Also worth looking at is the SGS Alternate Unemployment Rate which currently stands at around 23% (around 15% in 2009)...

 

[connor_in]

Get back to where we were when? We are back to where we were before the economic collapse of 08. It would take until 2021 to get to 98% unemployment. But that is taking into account a congress that refuses to do nothing but gut social programs. If we re-hired every teacher, cop, firefighter laid off since 08 unemployment would be under 6% right now. Of course U6 would say otherwise but even in solid economic times U6 is at 10% or higher.
------------------------------
My bad, average at 9 instead. Regardless you can't expect jobs through tax cuts only. If that were the case we would be in an economic boom. We are currently paying the lowest percentage of taxes in 80 years. Maybe, just maybe... hear me out guys. If republicans priority was something other than making Obama a 1 term president, we might be in a better situation. When Cantor and Boehner define comprimise as doing what we want or nothing at all, there is a problem. Presidents do not legislate.

So your idea is to hire a huge chunk of the un-/under-employed into government jobs and raise taxes on everyone?

 

[pkt77242]

So your idea is to hire a huge chunk of the un-/under-employed into government jobs and raise taxes on everyone?

I am not sure if that the point he is making but I won't answer for him. Instead I will point out that, people say that because unemployment is high, it means that the private sector is struggling. I say bullshit, as Jason pointed out, a large amount of the unemployed are former public employees (teachers, firemen, policemen) and that is why unemployment is so high. If you were a teacher for 15 years and then got laid off in 2010, what skills do you have to go out and get a job that isn't teaching? Same thing for firemen and policemen. Also by not spending on things like education we are screwing the future generations. Shockingly classes of 40+ 1st graders or 3rd graders is not conducive to getting a good education.

I find it odd to hear republicans want to purge the public sector of jobs but then complain about the unemployment rate. Really, what the **** did you think was going to happen?

 

[Downinthebend]

I am not sure if that the point he is making but I won't answer for him. Instead I will point out that, people say that because unemployment is high, it means that the private sector is struggling. I say bullshit, as Jason pointed out, a large amount of the unemployed are former public employees (teachers, firemen, policemen) and that is why unemployment is so high. If you were a teacher for 15 years and then got laid off in 2010, what skills do you have to go out and get a job that isn't teaching? Same thing for firemen and policemen. Also by not spending on things like education we are screwing the future generations. Shockingly classes of 40+ 1st graders or 3rd graders is not conducive to getting a good education.

I find it odd to hear republicans want to purge the public sector of jobs but then complain about the unemployment rate. Really, what the **** did you think was going to happen?

There isn't a correlation between spending and good education.

Food for thought
Money And School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

 

[Bluto]

There isn't a correlation between spending and good education.

Food for thought
Money And School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

To me this study seems flawed in its assessment. It seems like the school district dropped a ton of cash on bells and whistles instead of concrete things like reducing class size, teacher training and salaries. You can have the most awesome hi tech classroom in the world but you stick 30 or 40 kids in it with one adult and the kids will tear it to pieces. Lol. I'll re-read it to see if there was something I missed.

The attempt to confirm by pointing to Sausalito was a bit of a doozy too. You take a student population that is "1/3 special needs" and of course they will "underperform". The author then calls for an end to "welfare". Jesus Murphy. Yeah take away school nutrition programs and see how cray cray these classrooms get.

 

[Buster Bluth]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QlwilbVYvUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Buster, that is hilarious

Reps!

 

[Rhode Irish]

I'm not going to argue in here anymore, but I did want to see if anyone is watching the Frontline doc on Romney and Obama tonight on PBS. Its excellent. And no, it isn't a biased hack job. Its as down the middle as it can get, and its not really political as much as biographical.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Frontline always has good stuff.

 

[pkt77242]

There isn't a correlation between spending and good education.

Food for thought
Money And School Performance: Lessons from the Kansas City Desegregation Experiment

How about you google, academic rankings by state and spending per pupil per state. Look at the very bottom of those lists. Shockingly they look rather similar. One flawed study doesn't prove ****.

 

[RDU Irish]

I am not sure if that the point he is making but I won't answer for him. Instead I will point out that, people say that because unemployment is high, it means that the private sector is struggling. I say bullshit, as Jason pointed out, a large amount of the unemployed are former public employees (teachers, firemen, policemen) and that is why unemployment is so high. If you were a teacher for 15 years and then got laid off in 2010, what skills do you have to go out and get a job that isn't teaching? Same thing for firemen and policemen. Also by not spending on things like education we are screwing the future generations. Shockingly classes of 40+ 1st graders or 3rd graders is not conducive to getting a good education.

I find it odd to hear republicans want to purge the public sector of jobs but then complain about the unemployment rate. Really, what the **** did you think was going to happen?

So you are saying, those who can't, teach? Is that you Joe Biden?


Here is an article talking about the explosion of part time workers. Predictable for those who live in reality. Health changes spur test of more part-time workers - Businessweek

Good news, college grads! You can work at McDonalds, Olive Garden AND Taco Bell after graduation! Maybe between the three you will be working full time.