Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

woolybug25

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Hey Ndgraduate. Just wanted to say that while I typically (almost always) disagree with you, the tone of your posts lately have drastically improved. I just wanted to give credit where it's due. Thanks for that.
 
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Cackalacky

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Obama is not appointing him without knowing his positions. He has said he wants nominees who "know what it is like to be or poor, gay, or a single mother..." etc. He specifically does not want nominees who know what it is like to be Christian, or a gun-owner, or a taxpayer. He has his litmus tests, and he would not nominate anybody who doesn't meet them.



The Senate does not have to allow anything. They are not disobeying the Constitution by not acting. They have to consent. If they don't consent, Obama doesn't get what he wants. Simple as that.



So you wouldn't complain if Obama's lefty lawyer went through the process, and was rejected for political reasons, and the same to anyone else he nominated before the election?
that is being done with out merit or logical reasoning.



You think the Bork hearings were about his "merits"? He was a Yale law professor and a well-regarded scholar. The issue was that his view of the Constitution would not produce the policy results liberals want. You think the Thomas hearings were about "merits"? They were an attempt to defame him, and very nearly successful.

We won't agree; I'm just explaining to you why I don't care much about Democrats whining. Just between the Bork and Thomas hearings, we've heard about enough from them.

Ugh... i responded to all of this and my cpu threw up. Not retyping it. Anyway it boils down to the R's completely eschewing tradition and the Constitutional process by not even allowing a debate on an appointee. There really is no argument there. They are being completely petulant and irrational and unreasonable.
 
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Cackalacky

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It was 'demeaning'? He is writing law, not motivational posters for elementary schools. Much of what he said in his dissents on "gay rights" issues came to pass. In 2003 he predicted that same-sex marriage would be imposed on the country. What a lunatic!

As for his "responses" about blacks, I assumed you are referring to the episode late last year when he cited the considerable statistical evidence that affirmative action beneficiaries are 'mismatched' when placed in environments for which they are not academically qualified. It seems pretty intuitive that people would struggle academically when they are admitted to some school because of their race, and not because they are smart enough to get in. As I recall, in the controversy that followed liberals did not seek to reply with evidence, but chose to generally point-and-sputter.
Uhhhhh... his flag sitting comments for one. His dissents were all just reduction of arguments to the absurd where he equates homosexuality to murder and bestiality. And he has said other things against blacks before other than that which was egregious btw. Not surprised that many think it was reasonable to single out AA's in his assessment of an American's higher education opportunities. But in the end it really is just a regurgitated form of argument from the post Reconstructionist era:
We consider the underlying fallacy of the plaintiff's argument to consist in the assumption that the enforced separation of the two races stamps the colored race with a badge of inferiority. If this be so, it is not by reason of anything found in the act, but solely because the colored race chooses to put that construction upon it. ...We imagine that the white race, at least, would not acquiesce in this assumption.

The argument also assumes that social prejudices may be overcome by legislation, and that equal rights cannot be secured to the negro except by an enforced commingling of the two races. We cannot accept this proposition. If the two races are to meet upon terms of social equality, it must be the result of natural affinities, a mutual appreciation of each other's merits, and a voluntary consent of individuals. ...

Legislation is powerless to eradicate racial instincts or to abolish distinctions based upon physical differences, and the attempt to do so can only result in accentuating the difficulties of the present situation. If the civil and political rights of both races be equal, one cannot be inferior to the other civilly or politically. If one race be inferior to the other socially, the Constitution of the United States cannot put them upon the same plane.

-- Justice Henry Billings Brown, written majority opinion Plessy vs. Ferguson, May 18, 1896

Or perhaps Scalia's comments amount to a more verbose version of this:

A racist is one who despises someone because of his color, and an Alabama segregationist is one who conscientiously believes that it is in the best interest of Negro and white to have a separate education and social order.

-- George Wallace, U.S. News and World Report, 1964

What Scalia said may carry the veneer of data-enriched, modern thinking about race, education and opportunity. It may sound, to some ears, like the hard, cold facts, blended with genuine concern and then wrapped in the imprimatur and prudence that Scalia's lifetime Supreme Court appointment implies.

But there is almost nothing about what Scalia said that should be palatable, that is remotely new or indisputably accurate.

[Court divided over University of Texas case]

In fact, what Scalia voiced was just a very old set of ideas that have been used from almost the very beginning of this democracy to explain, justify or outright deny all manner of injustice and inequality. It's a special kind of circular logic. This is the logic that once rested on the idea that black slaves weren't fully human or American. So why then should they enjoy any guaranteed rights at all? If black Americans are inherently inferior, aren't they essentially being done a favor when their movements, education, place of residence and employment and partner of choice are socially or legally proscribed? And more to the point today, it isn't all of the aforementioned history and decisions that continue to reproduce socioeconomic inequality largely along racial lines; it's inherent inability or the absence of effort and drive.

Or so these arguments often go.

[Where Justice Scalia got the idea that African Americans might be better off at ‘slower-track’ universities]

Scalia's notions -- and they are simply notions -- about widespread and inherent black inferiority are part of a sprawling set of American ideas, policies and yes, even jurisprudence, around race, opportunity and ability. It's a body of thinking and policy-making that has been used at points to justify uneven opportunity or access, then explain away any group culpability for its logical results. And it's a way of thinking that ignores the very real fact that the reason integration became and remains such a contentious and still-incomplete goal is that, strategically, this remains the most assured route to quality schools, housing, health care and every other resource that helps to dictate opportunity.

It is a well-established fact that black and Latino children attend the nation's worst public schools. They are more likely to be taught by the least-experienced teachers, to learn in classrooms in the most ramshackle facilities, and they are more likely to come from lower-income families where conditions often make learning a bigger challenge. What students of color do seem to get more of is harsh discipline, including suspensions and arrests. That costs these same students valuable instruction time too.

These are all facts backed up by data and rigorous study available here, here, here and here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/10/justice-scalias-strange-but-all-too-familiar-theory-on-the-victims-of-affirmative-action/
 
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greyhammer90

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Uhhhhh... his flag sitting comments for one. His dissents were all just reduction of arguments to the absurd where he equates homosexuality to murder and bestiality. And he has said other things against blacks before other than that which was egregious btw. Not surprised that many think it was reasonable to single out AA's in his assessment of an American's higher education opportunities. But in the end it really is just a regurgitated form of argument from the post Reconstructionist era:

I'm having difficulty seeing how the statement from oral arguments quoted by that article can be construed as Scalia saying that "black Americans are inherently inferior."
 
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Cackalacky

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I'm having difficulty seeing how the statement from oral arguments quoted by that article can be construed as Scalia saying that "black Americans are inherently inferior."

I can see why people think he was saying that which is why I posted it. Not saying I agree but its one of the many reasons people are openly celebrating his passing, not just that statement alone. His reductionist arguments in many dissents were not well received in certain communities and they are born of the same arguments used to justify separate but equal.
 

Bishop2b5

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Broken discipline tracking systems let teachers flee troubled pasts

A pretty disturbing article. I know many in here are against the Federal government being involved in local things but can we all agree that maybe the Federal government should run a database that tracks these types of things, and that it should be mandatory for schools to enter information on the teachers who disciplined?

That's very disturbing indeed. To think that your child is being taught by someone that another state banned from the classroom due to completely unacceptable behavior is scary.

When I was in HS, there were twin brothers in their mid-twenties who taught PE and math at my school. They left before my senior year and I never thought much of it. Twenty-five years later both were in prison for multiple counts of child molestation, enticing a minor, child pornography, etc. They'd bounced from one school district to another for almost 25 years, one step ahead of allegations, police investigations, and angry parents until they finally got caught red-handed. State law prohibited each school system from telling the next why the two creeps had left, since there was no conviction for either. All they could say was that they'd worked at their school during a particular period and had left voluntarily. No telling how many kids they molested over the years, but there were accusations at every school they ever taught at.
 

phgreek

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Broken discipline tracking systems let teachers flee troubled pasts

A pretty disturbing article. I know many in here are against the Federal government being involved in local things but can we all agree that maybe the Federal government should run a database that tracks these types of things, and that it should be mandatory for schools to enter information on the teachers who disciplined?


I do think you are correct in wanting a centralized system, but I think the best solution would be a system the Federal Government could mandate, but not run. Federal Data Systems are not good. Mostly because the first thing to get cut in funding drills is Data Stewardship/maintenance. Funding would have to come from somewhere...probably fee based system where teachers seeking a position pay a fee...kind of like Monster.com. Just spitballing...but the issue is Federal systems are not going to improve the issue...centralized system yes...Federal, no.
 

NDgradstudent

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Who is to blame for not having an ID? If they don't have one, the governments of these states offer them for free. It is not the GOP's fault that Democrats are less likely to take the steps necessary to vote. Nor is there any constitutional issue with such schemes, as even hard-left judges like John Paul Stevens have recognized.

Voter fraud has paid the Democrats major dividends. They don't want it to end now.
 
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kmoose

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Funding would have to come from somewhere...probably fee based system where teachers seeking a position pay a fee...kind of like Monster.com. Just spitballing...but the issue is Federal systems are not going to improve the issue...centralized system yes...Federal, no.

How about a 2% tax on all funds candidates/parties receive from Super PACs?
 
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Buster Bluth

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Who is to blame for not having an ID? If they don't have one, the governments of these states offer them for free. It is not the GOP's fault that Democrats are less likely to take the steps necessary to vote. Nor is there any constitutional issue with such schemes, as even hard-left judges like John Paul Stevens have recognized.

Well yeah that's the problem, it isn't unconstitutional because there is no right to vote in this country. The government is only barred from discriminating on the basis of age, sex, race, etc. They can go right ahead and discriminate for any number of other reasons though.

Voter fraud has paid the Democrats major dividends. They don't want it to end now.

Hey quick question...can felons get their sneaky hands on IDs?

For what it's worth, no reputable outlets are saying 1,099 felons illegally voted.

Twin Cities prosecutors look into allegations of illegal voting - StarTribune.com

But local and state officials say the group's reports are likely inflated and hard to verify because of difficulties determining whether the suspected felon voters had their voting rights restored, if they knew they were ineligible to vote, or if they were actually the people whose names appear on voter rolls.

But then it gets back to the core of the problem, voting as a right. Voting unfortunately isn't a right in this country, but it should be. Felons should be able to vote, I'd chalk it up there with voter ID laws. Conservatives know felons lean Democrat, so they bar them from voting. Today it's pretty disgusting how many cannot vote:

In Florida and Alabama, for instance, the figure is 31 percent, while in Mississippi it is 29 percent. In Virginia, 25 percent of otherwise eligible black men cannot vote.

You'd think the party that goes around touting how much it loves freedom and defending Americans from government oppression would stand up against this. If the government is putting so many people in jail that gigantic portions of the population cannot vote, something is wrong. We've removed the mechanism that helps undo those laws (ie voters who have actually dealt with the unjust law). The culprit here is the War on Drugs, which means awful government laws put people in jail who then can't turn around and vote down those unjust and destructive laws and that is the Orwellian police state in action.
 
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IrishLax

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Well yeah that's the problem, it isn't unconstitutional because there is no right to vote in this country. The government is only barred from discriminating on the basis of age, sex, race, etc. They can go right ahead and discriminate for any number of other reasons though.



Hey quick question...can felons get their sneaky hands on IDs?

For what it's worth, no reputable outlets are saying 1,099 felons illegally voted.

Twin Cities prosecutors look into allegations of illegal voting - StarTribune.com



But then it gets back to the core of the problem, voting as a right. Voting unfortunately isn't a right in this country, but it should be. Felons should be able to vote, I'd chalk it up there with voter ID laws. Conservatives know felons lean Democrat, so they bar them from voting. Today it's pretty disgusting how many cannot vote:



You'd think the party that goes around touting how much it loves freedom and defending Americans from government oppression would stand up against this. If the government is putting so many people in jail that gigantic portions of the population cannot vote, something is wrong. We've removed the mechanism that helps undo those laws (ie voters who have actually dealt with the unjust law). The culprit here is the War on Drugs, which means awful government laws put people in jail who then can't turn around and vote down those unjust and destructive laws and that is the Orwellian police state in action.

I'm curious why -- from a purely philosophical standpoint -- you think more voting is a good thing? And then with specific regards to felons, why would it be a net positive for society if felons were able to vote?
 

phgreek

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How about a 2% tax on all funds candidates/parties receive from Super PACs?

GREAT idea...there ya go, now its funded...just get the Federal government to mandate it, and someone to build and operate it.
 

kmoose

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Felons should be able to vote, I'd chalk it up there with voter ID laws. Conservatives know felons lean Democrat, so they bar them from voting.

Not allowing criminals(or in this case, specifically felons) to vote FAR predates the Republican Party. But don't let that stand in the way of your hate-fest.

Background and History

The idea of taking away a criminal's right to vote has been around since ancient Greece and Rome. A condition called "civil death" in Europe involved the forfeiture of property, the loss of the right to appear in court, and a prohibition on entering into contracts, as well as the loss of voting rights. Civil death was brought to America by English colonists, but most aspects of it were eventually abolished, leaving only felon disenfranchisement intact in some parts of modern America.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Not allowing criminals(or in this case, specifically felons) to vote FAR predates the Republican Party. But don't let that stand in the way of your hate-fest.

So does homophobia, but the GOP still clings to that. I never said they invented felon restrictions.

But wouldn't you know, it's that god damn south again leading the way with this sort of fuckery:

Bush_stats1_960.png


But it's not like they have a cultural history that would lead one to think they are prone to excluding blacks from voting for less than noble and just reasons...
 
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Buster Bluth

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I'm curious why -- from a purely philosophical standpoint -- you think more voting is a good thing?

Yes. I think it's the way to balance between an republic and a democracy. Having representatives instead of direct elections is fine, but only when you broaden the voting base.

Perhaps a way to look at it is...what extension of voting rights was a negative for our society? Women? Blacks? Adults?

And then with specific regards to felons, why would it be a net positive for society if felons were able to vote?

Well it's a mechanism that helps undo bad laws. If you put too many people in jail, in theory they could turn around and undo that bad law. It's a balancing mechanism. The War on Drugs and the cycle of poverty are great examples of what is happening now.

The government makes laws that throw an enormous number of people in jail who then cannot get out and have a voice that they don't want those laws. That is a sort of oppression, and it continues to happen because white voters don't pay attention, or care so much, about what is happening in black communities (enter from stage right "but personal responsibility!"). When the communities being unequally targeted by government policy are then hit with "well ~30% of you can't vote anymore" the bar for undoing bad policies is raised and that is a net negative in my opinion.

I'm pretty unapologetic on the matter. I've spoken before about how blacks could be legally discriminated against in housing, banking, etc until 1968, and paired with the Voting Rights Act of 1968 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 things were turned upside down in the southern culture of racist exclusion. But, they can discriminate against felons (and in many ways it even makes sense). The War on Drugs was declared just a few years later in 1971 and blacks have been hit with ridiculous mandatory minimums and incarceration rates ever since. I'm of the opinion that it's all connected and that felon voting rights would at present time help undo some of this crap.
 
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NDgradstudent

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You'd think the party that goes around touting how much it loves freedom and defending Americans from government oppression would stand up against this. If the government is putting so many people in jail that gigantic portions of the population cannot vote, something is wrong. We've removed the mechanism that helps undo those laws (ie voters who have actually dealt with the unjust law). The culprit here is the War on Drugs, which means awful government laws put people in jail who then can't turn around and vote down those unjust and destructive laws and that is the Orwellian police state in action.

When you commit a crime you abdicate some of your liberty- that is why you have to pay a fine, or go to prison, or be executed, or whatever. You lose many of the liberties you would ordinarily have. The fact that Democratic voters are more likely to commit crimes than Republican voters is incidental; it is not an argument against punishing people for their crimes. The Democrats have bashed the police and accused them of racism; we have seen the results. As for the "war on drugs," let's suppose we repeal all drug laws. The violent crime rate is also much higher among blacks, and this holds even if you exclude drug-related violence (see table 40 here).

As for black voters being unable to vote to repeal drug laws because so many are in prison, black support for legal pot is not noticeably higher than white support, and the black-white incarceration ratio is highest in blue states which already take a relaxed view toward pot.

Again, though, your theory is being tested right now in Colorado and Washington. Do you expect the racial gap in crime rates to vanish because pot is legal?
 

kmoose

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So does homophobia, but the GOP still clings to that.

Ya know, this kind of partisanship is what has pushed the country so far off kilter. There is homophobia in the Democratic Party, just as there is in the Republican Party. We, as Americans, really need to start thinking of ourselves as Americans, instead of as Republicans and Democrats.

It's my belief that the choosing of sides skews our outlook, and makes it a case of "us against them", instead of "what's best for everyone?" And like Patton said, "Americans play to win all of the time.". When we divide ourselves, then our "wins" come at the expense of other Americans.
 

NDgradstudent

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rHFOwlMCdto" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This sort of thing apparently constitutes the extent of liberal "thinking" about politics these days. No comment on the absurd delegate-counting methods of the laughably-named "Democratic" party, in which elites count for 10,000 plebes.

I assume that as a Sanders supporter BB agrees with me about this. I would be nice if the snarky late-night lefties would offer some criticism.
 

phgreek

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Yes. I think it's the way to balance between an republic and a democracy. Having representatives instead of direct elections is fine, but only when you broaden the voting base.

Perhaps a way to look at it is...what extension of voting rights was a negative for our society? Women? Blacks? Adults?



Well it's a mechanism that helps undo bad laws. If you put too many people in jail, in theory they could turn around and undo that bad law. It's a balancing mechanism. The War on Drugs and the cycle of poverty are great examples of what is happening now.

The government makes laws that throw an enormous number of people in jail who then cannot get out and have a voice that they don't want those laws. That is a sort of oppression, and it continues to happen because white voters don't pay attention, or care so much, about what is happening in black communities (enter from stage right "but personal responsibility!"). When the communities being unequally targeted by government policy are then hit with "well ~30% of you can't vote anymore" the bar for undoing bad policies is raised and that is a net negative in my opinion.

I'm pretty unapologetic on the matter. I've spoken before about how blacks could be legally discriminated against in housing, banking, etc until 1968, and paired with the Voting Rights Act of 1968 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 things were turned upside down in the southern culture of racist exclusion. But, they can discriminate against felons (and in many ways it even makes sense). The War on Drugs was declared just a few years later in 1971 and blacks have been hit with ridiculous mandatory minimums and incarceration rates ever since. I'm of the opinion that it's all connected and that felon voting rights would at present time help undo some of this crap.

I grew up in the north east...and maybe thats the issue regarding how I saw the war on drugs. I became aware of it as a response to drugs coming in through Miami in the 80s, and the actions of the Cartels. It then blew up in response to pleas from states and municipalites in response to crack. And while I agree that people outside urban areas don't have the foggiest idea what the impact was/is...and it needs corrected...I feel sometimes like this entire discussion is blaming people who tried to support the cries from these cities that were being gutted by drugs, and the violence that followed the drugs. I saw a great number of town hall meetings in urban areas where black and white folks were Screaming for the air strike in the form of more enforcement, and stiffer penalties so they could reclaim their neighborhoods. I never once heard anyone say, hey make sure you don't screw up our voting block. I never saw it as some racially motivated scheme, but like many government responses it used an Axe where maybe something more precise was needed...where maybe a deeper understanding of the causes were needed. And yes, it had dire unintended consequences. No one evaluated it in any other terms beyond a question posed to those who were screaming for help...did we help?

You obviously saw a different war on drugs that can't be explained by people/government responding to pleas for help... But that wasn't my experience, and I was not aware of anything like a war on drugs until we were well into the 80s. Doesn't mean there wasn't some insidious intent in there, but it wasn't apparent to me.
 
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Buster Bluth

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I grew up in the north east...and maybe thats the issue regarding how I saw the war on drugs. I became aware of it as a response to drugs coming in through Miami in the 80s, and the actions of the Cartels. It then blew up in response to pleas from states and municipalites in response to crack. And while I agree that people outside urban areas don't have the foggiest idea what the impact was/is...and it needs corrected...I feel sometimes like this entire discussion is blaming people who tried to support the cries from these cities that were being gutted by drugs, and the violence that followed the drugs. I saw a great number of town hall meetings in urban areas where black and white folks were Screaming for the air strike in the form of more enforcement, and stiffer penalties so they could reclaim their neighborhoods. I never once heard anyone say, hey make sure you don't screw up our voting block. I never saw it as some racially motivated scheme, but like many government responses it used an Axe where maybe something more precise was needed...where maybe a deeper understanding of the causes were needed. And yes, it had dire unintended consequences. No one evaluated it in any other terms beyond a question posed to those who were screaming for help...did we help?

You obviously saw a different war on drugs that can't be explained by people/government responding to pleas for help... But that wasn't my experience, and I was not aware of anything like a war on drugs until we were well into the 80s. Doesn't mean there wasn't some insidious intent in there, but it wasn't apparent to me.

Well I should probably point out that the War on Drugs wasn't solely a bunch of racists sitting around in Klan hoods conspiring to put blacks in jail. The War on Drugs got out of hand for a number of reasons, many of them having nothing to do with race and supported in a bipartisan manner. I am saying that within that governmental abuse it's an awful coincidence that within it are very racist ramifications, predominantly in the south. In short, bad government policy is worse with racists.

Exhibit A would be the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, which put a five-year mandatory minimum on simple possession of 5g of crack and 500g of cocaine. One of the differences between crack and cocaine is that one was predominantly used by blacks (78% of crack usage) and one isn't, the 100-to-1 ratio was reduced to 18-to-1 in 2010.
 

kmoose

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The government makes laws that throw an enormous number of people in jail who then cannot get out and have a voice that they don't want those laws. That is a sort of oppression, and it continues to happen because white voters don't pay attention, or care so much, about what is happening in black communities (enter from stage right "but personal responsibility!"). When the communities being unequally targeted by government policy are then hit with "well ~30% of you can't vote anymore" the bar for undoing bad policies is raised and that is a net negative in my opinion.

I'm pretty unapologetic on the matter. I've spoken before about how blacks could be legally discriminated against in housing, banking, etc until 1968, and paired with the Voting Rights Act of 1968 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 things were turned upside down in the southern culture of racist exclusion. But, they can discriminate against felons (and in many ways it even makes sense). The War on Drugs was declared just a few years later in 1971 and blacks have been hit with ridiculous mandatory minimums and incarceration rates ever since. I'm of the opinion that it's all connected and that felon voting rights would at present time help undo some of this crap.

Let's not conflate things here. Simply going to jail on misdemeanor pot possession does not keep you from voting. The vast majority of FELONY drug charges are certainly not designed to discriminate against people of any color. They are designed to provide significantly more dire consequences than simply having a dime bag of weed in your pocket. Most felony drug charges involve dealing, or possession with the intent to distribute. And those laws were created to SHIELD the addicts from such harsh consequences. In other words, the most vulnerable individuals are charged with the least of crimes. Where the system fell down, in my opinion, is that they failed to treat the addicts while they were incarcerated. The people who end up in jail for long stretches for simple use are the ones who are chronic offenders. The others who end up in jail for long stretches are the dealers who prey on the addicts. And I think most people would say that's ok. I think that these "dealing" laws hit blacks harder not by intent, but because black gangs ended up controlling much of distribution.
 

phgreek

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Well I should probably point out that the War on Drugs wasn't solely a bunch of racists sitting around in Klan hoods conspiring to put blacks in jail. The War on Drugs got out of hand for a number of reasons, many of them having nothing to do with race and supported in a bipartisan manner. I am saying that within that governmental abuse it's an awful coincidence that within it are very racist ramifications, predominantly in the south. In short, bad government policy is worse with racists.

Exhibit A would be the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, which put a five-year mandatory minimum on simple possession of 5g of crack and 500g of cocaine. One of the differences between crack and cocaine is that one was predominantly used by blacks (78% of crack usage) and one isn't, the 100-to-1 ratio was reduced to 18-to-1 in 2010.

Where I was...targeting of crack was precisely what was asked for by the communities themselves. It was time and again the drug at the heart of the undoing of these communities. I don't know why, but it was. Look I would never argue the outcome was a travesty...it was. In hindsight targeting the crack was not something that should have been a long term solution. I would argue that these places were under siege, and holding these guys in jail was the only hope they had of getting them off the crack, because there simply were not enough treatment programs to handle all of them. As well the cops were overwhelmed and needed to stem the numbers, so I get the sentencing as a strategic tool to address an acute problem. However, people stopped paying attention and left the law/laws as they were and that is where the disproportionate and multi-generational issue comes from IMHO...and yea, if someone got clobbered for crack post 1990ish (or pick a time), and had no aggravating circumstances, they need to be put in a training program to get a trade, an addiction/monitoring program, and have their record wiped so they can get a job. Isn't fair, isn't timely, isn't justice, but it is an attempt to rectify this. As well any laws left that lead to disproportionate incarceration on their face...knock 'em down. I am a staunch conservative, but very liberal when the government fucks up. I have no time for legal shielding and immunity when the government hurts its people by negligence.

I just look at the real cause of this as one of distraction, indifference, or racism after the fact... not the initial legislation. Where were the representatives and senators supposedly representing these communities? Did they not know what was happening...did they not care...did they happily let it continue?
 

irishff1014

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Let's not conflate things here. Simply going to jail on misdemeanor pot possession does not keep you from voting. The vast majority of FELONY drug charges are certainly not designed to discriminate against people of any color. They are designed to provide significantly more dire consequences than simply having a dime bag of weed in your pocket. Most felony drug charges involve dealing, or possession with the intent to distribute. And those laws were created to SHIELD the addicts from such harsh consequences. In other words, the most vulnerable individuals are charged with the least of crimes. Where the system fell down, in my opinion, is that they failed to treat the addicts while they were incarcerated. The people who end up in jail for long stretches for simple use are the ones who are chronic offenders. The others who end up in jail for long stretches are the dealers who prey on the addicts. And I think most people would say that's ok. I think that these "dealing" laws hit blacks harder not by intent, but because black gangs ended up controlling much of distribution.

Kmoose makes a very valid point. In county I live in we have a good amount of white dealers that get busted with large amounts. Very rare you get much time for your first or 2nd bust.

And so does BB in some sense. Having a warrant for failure to show and have a dime bag of weed isn't really hurting anyone. Or if you made a bad decision to drive home from the bar and you pick up a dui. But if it's your 4th you aren't learning your lesson. But if you are serving 15 years for your 3rd domestic assault shouldn't have that right. It would have to be case dependent.
 
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