Politics

[phgreek]

Let the people who shaped their lives around the promises keep them. Let the rest of us opt out. Keep the OPTION, but let us out. The liberals will counter "Paul Ryan wants to let Wall Street gamble with your retirement!" No, Paul Ryan wants to let you let Wall Street gamble with your retirement IF YOU CHOOSE to do so.

Yea... I got my letter from SS that I am paid up a very long time ago...but it won't be there for me...so you make choices...work harder....

Once you accept that...the goal of not needing it is pretty motivating...

 

[Black Irish]

How much more you want amateur?

<a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/"><img src="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org/taxes/rich.jpg" alt="How The Super Rich Avoid Paying Taxes" width="500" border="0" /></a><br />Source: <a href="http://www.topaccountingdegrees.org">TopAccountingDegrees.org</a>

So let's be clear, not one of the things on this list is illegal and counts as tax fraud. Really, aside from the scale of money involved, all of that is no different than middle class people "avoiding" taxes by claiming their mortgage interest deduction or writing off what they contributed to charity. Let's not vilify people for acting in a legal manner in order to keep more of their income. Take it up with Congress, they write the tax laws.

 

[phgreek]

Good luck with that one....

It will come no matter what we do...I tend to like things to be of my choosing...

 

[BobD]

Walmart (or whoever) will pay the tolls when they take their trucks over those bridges. My goods will have an implicit tax included the price when I purchase them. The end consumer who benefited from the infrastructure would ultimately foot the bill.



Good for him. Maybe because he busted his *** and started a company that employs hundreds of people. Or maybe he was just plain lucky. Or maybe his granddaddy busted HIS *** and gave him piles of cash to blow on cars and boats. I don't begrudge him any of that.

Nobody* is poor on accident. Hard work and talent pay off. Limiting the payoff limits incentive, which promotes stagnation. Steve Jobs didn't bless the world with his genius because he was a super nice guy. He did what he did so he could get filthy rich. Same with Henry Ford, Walt Disney, JP Morgan, John Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Jay-Z, Oprah Winfrey, Mark Zuckerburg, and on and on and on.

*Obviously excluding the disabled, who deserve to be taken care of.

"Nobody is poor by accident" ~ wizards8507

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

Funny you should say this following the long debate over the ACA.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

 

[wizards8507]

"Nobody is poor by accident" ~ wizards8507

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

Funny you should say this following the long debate over the ACA.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

Here's a thought. If you CHOOSE to not buy health insurance, your bankruptcy is your own fault.

If you're poor, you have Medicaid.

If you're disabled, you have Medicaid.

If you're not poor or disabled, you can afford a basic policy that covers catastrophic care. Maybe people should stop buying 40 inch televisions or HBO subscriptions or LeBron James sneakers until they have a savings account that can cover their deductible. Just a thought.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Here's a thought. If you CHOOSE to not buy health insurance, your bankruptcy is your own fault.

If you're poor, you have Medicaid.

If you're disabled, you have Medicaid.

If you're not poor or disabled, you can afford a basic policy that covers catastrophic care. Maybe people should stop buying 40 inch televisions or HBO subscriptions or LeBron James sneakers until they have a savings account that can cover their deductible. Just a thought.

Can I add "children" to that list of people having things they can't afford?

 

[potownhero]

The War on Poor Rural Standards of Living (i.e. bringing electricty to rural areas in the 1930s) turned out alright, I'd say.

I don't claim to have read this whole thread, but I'd be curious why you think that:

federal subsidies for power to rural areas = good
federal subsidies for highways to rural areas = bad.

?

 

[Wild Bill]

"Nobody is poor by accident" ~ wizards8507

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

Funny you should say this following the long debate over the ACA.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

This study is worthless.

"METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court records, and interviewed 1032 of them. We designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated reasons for filing, income loss due to illness, and the magnitude of their medical debts."

Their method was to simply survey the debtor. Shocking - they provided an "acceptable" excuse for filing. Of course they'll blame anything but their own behavior. Why didn't they look at the actual petitions? They're public information. They could have simply reviewed the claims and determined what percentage of the debt on the petition was medically related.

I review thousands of bankruptcy petitions each year. Less than 1% of filers are prompted to file b/c of medical bills. This is easy to determine by simply looking at the debts they owe. It's more difficult to estimate how many people file b/c of a loss of income due to illness. In the context of ACA, what would that matter? Whether they're insured or not, they would lose wages due to illness.

I've already sent this to my colleagues. We're all enjoying a good laugh.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

"Nobody is poor by accident" ~ wizards8507

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard this month.

Funny you should say this following the long debate over the ACA.

Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies: Study

If there is an IE Award for posting random @$$ articles you Googled to support emotionally charged arguments, you take the cake.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That chart is intellectually dishonest. It shows the tax burden by percentage of income, not by dollars paid. A man earning $1M paying 30% is sending $300,000 to the government. A man making $50,000 and paying 20% is sending $10,000 to the government. Your bullsht chart would show those figures as the "rich" man paying 10 percentage points more than the middle-class man. What it doesn't show is that the rich man is paying 30 TIMES more in actual dollars even though his income is just 20 times larger.

That's what makes it intellectually honest.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I don't claim to have read this whole thread, but I'd be curious why you think that:

federal subsidies for power to rural areas = good
federal subsidies for highways to rural areas = bad.

?

Highways cost trillions, power lines don't. Highways pull people out of cities and cripple tax receipts, in turn crushing the core economy and destroying school systems. Power lines don't.

Everyone deserves power, not a six-lane highway so they can cruise their 20mi at 75mph to work.

Seems petty straight forward. I'm for things we can afford, and against what we can't.

 

[connor_in]

Highways cost trillions, power lines don't. Highways pull people out of cities and cripple tax receipts, in turn crushing the core economy and destroying school systems. Power lines don't.

Everyone deserves power, not a six-lane highway so they can cruise their 20mi at 75mph to work.

Seems petty straight forward. I'm for things we can afford, and against what we can't.

Cities can also pull people out of cities. A number of people dream of getting out of them....especially as they get older and want to raise families

 

[phgreek]

Thousands Of Consumers Get Insurance Cancellation Notices Due To Health Law Changes - Kaiser Health News


So we're dropping your coverage after we said you could keep it....and it's going to cost you more.


The ACA in a nutshell

and to make matters worse...the "grandfather" portion of the law which allowed Mr. Obama to make the claim that "you can keep your coverage and your Dr." was changed after the law passed...by Ms. Sebelius, who promptly made it near impossible for anything to be grandfathered...I guess Mr. Obama didn't read the memo on that...as he paraded that line around like a trophy wife...

BTW...The acronym for Executive Order is EO...what is the thing called Ms. Sebelius did there...HHS Directive Superceding Law...HDSL...cool, has a nice ring to it...

I'm actually locking the door to my office tomorrow and turning on the TV so I can watch this a$$ beating...nothing will come of it...but it is fun to watch these people worm in their chairs looking for respectful ways to tell congress they don't answer to them...and to go fvck themselves...

 

[BobD]

This study is worthless.

"METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court records, and interviewed 1032 of them. We designated bankruptcies as “medical” based on debtors’ stated reasons for filing, income loss due to illness, and the magnitude of their medical debts."

Their method was to simply survey the debtor. Shocking - they provided an "acceptable" excuse for filing. Of course they'll blame anything but their own behavior. Why didn't they look at the actual petitions? They're public information. They could have simply reviewed the claims and determined what percentage of the debt on the petition was medically related.

I review thousands of bankruptcy petitions each year. Less than 1% of filers are prompted to file b/c of medical bills. This is easy to determine by simply looking at the debts they owe. It's more difficult to estimate how many people file b/c of a loss of income due to illness. In the context of ACA, what would that matter? Whether they're insured or not, they would lose wages due to illness.

I've already sent this to my colleagues. We're all enjoying a good laugh.

Colleagues from clown school don't count.

NerdWallet Health finds Medical Bankruptcy accounts for majority of personal bankruptcies | Health

The No-Nonsense Truth About Medical Bankruptcy - GiveForward

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - Businessweek

 

[BobD]

If there is an IE Award for posting random @$$ articles you Googled to support emotionally charged arguments, you take the cake.

Says the guy who posted Oprah as a supporting argument.

 

[BobD]

So let's be clear, not one of the things on this list is illegal and counts as tax fraud. Really, aside from the scale of money involved, all of that is no different than middle class people "avoiding" taxes by claiming their mortgage interest deduction or writing off what they contributed to charity. Let's not vilify people for acting in a legal manner in order to keep more of their income. Take it up with Congress, they write the tax laws.

Nobody is vilifying anyone. Something can be legal and socially irresponsible.

 

[irishpat183]

Nobody is vilifying anyone. Something can be legal and socially irresponsible.

You mean like taking money that isn't yours and giving it to someone that didn't earn it?

 

[BobD]

Here's a thought. If you CHOOSE to not buy health insurance, your bankruptcy is your own fault.

If you're poor, you have Medicaid.

If you're disabled, you have Medicaid.

If you're not poor or disabled, you can afford a basic policy that covers catastrophic care. Maybe people should stop buying 40 inch televisions or HBO subscriptions or LeBron James sneakers until they have a savings account that can cover their deductible. Just a thought.

Can I add "children" to that list of people having things they can't afford?

So you two eraser heads think you have poor people pegged huh? I feel sorry for you.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So let's be clear, not one of the things on this list is illegal and counts as tax fraud. Really, aside from the scale of money involved, all of that is no different than middle class people "avoiding" taxes by claiming their mortgage interest deduction or writing off what they contributed to charity. Let's not vilify people for acting in a legal manner in order to keep more of their income. Take it up with Congress, they write the tax laws.

I think that's the point. The game is rigged. Congress is made up of a ton of rich people who make laws to benefit rich people.

 

[BobD]

You mean like taking money that isn't yours and giving it to someone that didn't earn it?

Who suggested that. I'm growing tired of your weak and uninformed arguments Pat. Stop being a wanna be puppet.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Who suggested that. I'm growing tired of your weak and uninformed arguments Pat. Stop being a wanna be puppet.

All taxes are socialism. Didn't you know?

 

[Wild Bill]

Colleagues from clown school don't count.

NerdWallet Health finds Medical Bankruptcy accounts for majority of personal bankruptcies | Health

The No-Nonsense Truth About Medical Bankruptcy - GiveForward

Study Links Medical Costs and Personal Bankruptcy - Businessweek

Right. Clown school.

To be honest, I immediately regretted responding to your comment. After watching Leppy slap you around the past two weeks it has become glaringly apparent you have little to no grasp of reality.

 

[BobD]

Right. Clown school.

To be honest, I immediately regretted responding to your comment. After watching Leppy slap you around the past two weeks it has become glaringly apparent you have little to no grasp of reality.

Lmao! Leppy sits around and argues with himself, the only thing he's slapping is himself for not having a real job.....seriously, he's here typing crap 24/7 with Pat. You definitely were right in regretting that lame post.

 

[BobD]

God lets you be successful because he trusts you that you will do the right thing with it. Now, does he get disappointed often? All the time, because people get there and they forget how they got it.

Steve Harvey

 

[potownhero]

Highways cost trillions, power lines don't. Highways pull people out of cities and cripple tax receipts, in turn crushing the core economy and destroying school systems. Power lines don't.

It seems to me that the ability to have electricity would pull people out of cities too.

Everyone deserves power, not a six-lane highway so they can cruise their 20mi at 75mph to work.

Great, I'm so happy that YOU get to decide what people deserve and what people don't. How very progressive of you.

Seems petty straight forward. I'm for things we can afford, and against what we can't.

Me too; so long as they create an overall increase in economic output (for infrastructure) [although I would question some of the analyses that have been done] and they cannot be done by the state's themselves.

 

[phgreek]

God lets you be successful because he trusts you that you will do the right thing with it. Now, does he get disappointed often? All the time, because people get there and they forget how they got it.

Steve Harvey

...which then justifies the government acting as the surrogate for real charity with the tax code etc...In fact I'd like to see what it costs to deliver 1 dollar equivalent of service across the Federal Government...guessing the ratio would approach the Red Cross...(that's not an efficient organization)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Says the guy who posted Oprah as a supporting argument.

Nice try. I said the White House couldn't even get Oprah to come out and champion the ACA. Everyone, even Democrats, with half a brain is running away from it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Lmao! Leppy sits around and argues with himself, the only thing he's slapping is himself for not having a real job.....seriously, he's here typing crap 24/7 with Pat. You definitely were right in regretting that lame post.

Hahahaha. You post ridiculous crap, a number of us have to sit here, correct you and bring you back to reality. And what on God's green earth do you know about my job? It's a darn good one where I work for a company that has 20,000 employees but 95% of the time I am my own boss. GFY.

And this coming from the guy who's been a member for 2 years and has 6000 posts! I've been here for 6 and I have 2000 posts...and I'm the one with a joke job??? You're so disconnected from reality it's embarrassing.

 

[BobD]

Hahahaha. You post ridiculous crap, a number of us have to sit here, correct you and bring you back to reality. And what on God's green earth do you know about my job? It's a darn good one where I work for a company that has 20,000 employees but 95% of the time I am my own boss. GFY.

And this coming from the guy who's been a member for 2 years and has 6000 posts! I've been here for 6 and I have 2000 posts...and I'm the one with a joke job??? You're so disconnected from reality it's embarrassing.

You haven't corrected anyone, you sit here and spew your tea party puppet crap. Don't be mad because I'm more productive in my off time than you. I don't have to sit here and think out what I'm gonna say in hopes that someone will like me, unlike you, I make my own opinions. Go out in the street and play with pat.

You'd think a guy with a real job could after 7 years scrape up a few bucks and support the site by joining the varsity club?

 

[BobD]

Ok I'm done responding to personal attacks and I mean it this time!

Address issues, not individuals.

Thanks for the great posts from those of you that have been able to ignore the crap.