Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

DSully1995

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We are not talking about giving everyone money we are talking about putting people back to work.

By your argument low unemployment isn't good because more people got money so it is going to cause inflation.

I am believer in Modern Monetary Theory

Warren Mosler: MMT to Washington: There Is No Long-term Deficit Problem!

What Is Modern Monetary Theory, or "MMT"?

No because low employment would mean the economy is growing(and thus likely physically producing more goods), Would you recommend the government hire every single unemployed person? The deficit isnt an issue, nor is inflation, and you would get natural rates of unemployment, i dont beloeve in much monetary or extreme fiscal policy.


***Exception, where you can see and prove a enormous ROI ( ie. if you could find the next internet)
 

Ndaccountant

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There is no evidence that the deficit spending causes inflation. Reagan inherited a low defict and high inflation and ended with the opposite. I agree we have to bring the deficit down but there is no evidence moderate budget deficits bring about inflation.

Inflation is a rise in prices of goods and services in an economy. When there is something like an oil or a food shortage that's when you see large scale inflation. Giving every single American 100 grand would probably cause inflation but spending money to employ construction workers to fix some of more critical and more deficient roads isn't going cause inflation. Deficit spending to put some of laid off teachers, fire fighters, and police back to work will not cause inflation.

We have been over this before. First, you need to be sure you are not confusing monetary policy with fiscal policy. Fiscal policy can eventually lead to inflation if it gets too big, but we are not there yet. But that isn't the argument for inflation in the future. The argument is based on the ever expanding Fed balance sheet.

Second, this was all discussed before.
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/890907-post5160.html
 

chicago51

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No because low employment would mean the economy is growing(and thus likely physically producing more goods), Would you recommend the government hire every single unemployed person? The deficit isnt an issue, nor is inflation, and you would get natural rates of unemployment, i dont beloeve in much monetary or extreme fiscal policy.


***Exception, where you can see and prove a enormous ROI ( ie. if you could find the next internet)

Modern Monetary Theory doesn't have to be just spending it can be tax cuts as the right kind of tax cuts do work. The point is that the business cycle goes up and down. The idea is to pump money in when business cycle is down. A down business cycle means people are short on money so you are not creating inflation by spending or cutting taxes. When economy improves taxes should go up and spending should decrease. The whole idea is to balance the economy so have full employment but don't have inflation.

No I don't think government should hire everyone. I think the government should the employer of last resort at lower set wages than what an equivalent private sector job would pay so when the private sector picks up people would be hired away from the government.
 
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Ndaccountant

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Modern Monetary Theory doesn't have to be just spending it can be tax cuts as the right kind of tax cuts do work. The point is that the business cycle goes up and down. The idea is to pump money in when business cycle is down. A down business cycle means people are short on money so you are not creating inflation by spending or cutting taxes. When economy improves taxes should go up and spending should decrease. The whole idea is to balance the economy so have full employment but don't have inflation.

No I don't think government should hire everyone. I think the government should the employer of last resort at lower set wages than what an equivalent private sector job would pay so when the private sector picks up people would be hired away from the government.

This doesn't work because gov't doesn't adjust. Once something happens (tax cut / increase or spending cut / increase), the moment someone tries to take it away it becomes a huge political struggle. The theory is great, but it is not executable given our political make up.
 

chicago51

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My demand driven economics gets run down a lot. Can someone explain supply side economics because I'm struggling with it?
 

DSully1995

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My demand driven economics gets run down a lot. Can someone explain supply side economics because I'm struggling with it?

From a free market man, it just seems like the people who feel they should intervene in the economy is that they can in fact "solve" the economy like its an equation.
 

connor_in

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canadian-riot-history.jpg
 

chicago51

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From a free market man, it just seems like the people who feel they should intervene in the economy is that they can in fact "solve" the economy like its an equation.

Okay you didn't answer my question.

I wasn't talking about getting rid of the free enterprise system.

I do support public roads, public schools, public transit, public libraries, police, fire department, post office, air traffic control, social security, Medicaid, food stamps, and the military.

I suppose we could do things like privatize the roads and the Koch Brothers could charge me a nickel every time I drive down their road but that doesn't appeal to me.
 
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Ndaccountant

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My demand driven economics gets run down a lot. Can someone explain supply side economics because I'm struggling with it?

I am an Austrian type of guy.

Here is a nice primer on what Austrian's think and believe. Here are a few blurbs. I would focus on the key principles and the boom and bust cycle.

http://www.adamsmith.org/sites/default/files/resources/austrian-primer-text_2.pdf

"And government action is usually misplaced in another important
way. There is no way that officials can know what individuals do in
fact value. They cannot look into our minds and know whether we
would gladly pay more taxes to have better schools or hospitals,
for example. Market prices could tell them what the public is
prepared to give up for such things, but by ignoring prices and
trying to ‘improve on’ the market, they inevitably fail to maximise
our values. In a vibrant market, where people constantly adjust
their plans against changing conditions, officials could not even
collect the necessary information before it became out of date, and
could certainly never know what people would choose. Perhaps the
government has a role in making sure markets work smoothly; but
as far as Austrian economists are concerned, it has no business
intervening in them."

"The first thing to remember is that the expansion in the money
supply starts at some point of origin. It might start with the
government printing more money in order to pay its debts or its
bills, or to expand public enterprises. It may come from the central
bank lowering interest rates and other banks creating more money
in the shape of mortgages, overdrafts and loans to their customers.
So the new money has its first effect at that point. Government
suppliers and workers may be the first to benefit from an
expansion of fiat money, for example. They find themselves better
off, and spend more. That makes their own suppliers better off;
and the new money ripples out from there to the next suppliers,
and so on, raising prices and drawing in investment and resources
at every stage."

"The Austrian view is that human events are driven by the actions
of individuals, that only individuals make choices, and that society
and social institutions do not have a mind of their own, somehow
independent of the minds of the individuals that comprise them.
There is therefore no such thing as a ‘collective will’, and any politics
rooted in that idea is fundamentally flawed. Politics must respect
the fact that decisions are made by individuals, not collectives."

"it is precisely
because people differ about the value of things that they enter
into exchanges – to the benefit of both sides. Their mutually
beneficial social behaviour is not the collective will of people who
agree about everything, but a reciprocal arrangement between
people who disagree. If everyone shared the same views on
society, then collective politics might be feasible; but the reality
is that they do not. Consequently, Austrians feel that it is better
for political solutions to emerge through peaceful settlements
between individuals, than by the majority imposing their will on
everyone else."

"freedom should
be maximised, and that coercion should be minimised, and
that this would create a dynamic, harmonious, self-regulating
society. Yet for markets to operate, they needed rules (such as
the respect for property and contracts), just as a fire needs a
fire-basked to burn properly. So there was a role for the state in
enforcing these rules."

"Even if one does reject central planning, many people still believe
that a mixed economy works best: for example, having free
exchange and competition (which incentivises innovation and
customer service), within a framework of central co-ordination
(which avoids duplication and ensures all options are covered).
But Austrians say that any government intervention necessarily
places the values of a small political class over the values of the
whole population, freely collaborating in trade, and so diminishes
human welfare."
 

Black Irish

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Modern Monetary Theory doesn't have to be just spending it can be tax cuts as the right kind of tax cuts do work. The point is that the business cycle goes up and down. The idea is to pump money in when business cycle is down. A down business cycle means people are short on money so you are not creating inflation by spending or cutting taxes. When economy improves taxes should go up and spending should decrease. The whole idea is to balance the economy so have full employment but don't have inflation.

No I don't think government should hire everyone. I think the government should the employer of last resort at lower set wages than what an equivalent private sector job would pay so when the private sector picks up people would be hired away from the government.

I'm close to agreeing with you on this. I'd rather have the government hire an out of work person for a real, necessary job rather than just hand that person an unemployment check. But if the unions get involved, forget about that "lower than the private sector pay grade." Ask any construction worker what his favorite type of job is, and they'll say federal because they get paid federal rate, which is the top pay rate. So even in states where unions aren't very powerful, their influence still inflates labor costs because of prevailing wage.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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Tiger is #1 again.
Tougher gun laws are coming soon.
Polls show the majority of Americans approve of same sex marriage and it looks as if the Supreme Court Justices will soon give them equality.
There's a Democrat in the Whitehouse.
The economy is improving.
The Republicans are lost.

Things are really looking up! :)

1) Tiger does make golf a helluva lot more fun to watch.

2) Tougher gun laws? How? Harry Reid took Feinstein's proposal and put it in the shredder lol. And Republicans in the House won't pass what the far left wants.

3) I could get more people to be in favor of civil unions (and all the benefits) than people who favor gay marriage. Personally I don't give a rip, but it's a state issue and should be handled as such.

4) We know...fundamentral transformation. One day at a time.

5) Millions leaving the workforce, 8% unemployment, $16 trillion debt, and things are getting better? Dream on. Will only get worse with obamacare.

6) Republicans need big gains in 2014 and the White House in 2016, but if they were as "out of touch" and "backwards" and "lost" as you paint them to be, they wouldn't have control of the House.
 

GoIrish41

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For GoIrish41. Apparently there are some groups still trying to implement voter ID laws.

Arkansas governor vetoes voter ID bill

That's good. I don't agree with many of these types of laws, but I support their pursuit of them right now. It demonstrates that they may actually feel like it is a real issue, and not some ploy to alter the outcome of elections.As I said, the closer it gets to an election, the less supportive I would be.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Apparently today is national gay marriage equality day on facebook, it's obviously political so I'll share my status with all of you:

Here's the thing with marriage equality... You can think homosexuality is the most abhorrent thing on the planet, you really can; and you can be 10000% against Catholic (or Methodist, Islamic, etc) gay marriage, that's all fine too. But the idea that you can withhold the rights of other people because of your opinion/religion is just completely insane and ironically "unamerican." If you're against gay marriage, take it up with your religion, not the state.

And spare people this stupid argument: "Well what about polygamy, should we allow that? What if I want to marry my brother, can that be allowed? We have to have laws for society!" NO ONE can marry their brother, so you're not denying certain people rights. If certain people could marry their brother and certain people couldn't, that would be inequality...and that's the case with gays in this country right now and it's just plain stupid.

drops the mic, walks off stage...
 

ACamp1900

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If you're against gay marriage, take it up with your religion, not the state.

I agree... for both sides... I have felt DOMA is so wrong it's beyond belief... and so are legislative attempts on the other side. The problem arose when gov. stepped in and changed it from 'rite' to 'right'... Leave marriage where the gov. found it, give all rights and protections to gay couples or take them away from straight ones… completely seperate civil unions (only for tax and gov. purposes) from marriage (religious rite) if need be. Let each church decide what it wants to do with its own rites. I'm not saying this would ever happen as the gov never lets go once the talons are locked in but I do honestly believe some scenerio like this would the best compromise (you know that thing everyone claims to want these days but never really supports) for both sides. Though last time I stated my feelings here I was labeled homophobic and hate filled by more than one regular here…. lol
 
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Ndaccountant

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Apparently today is national gay marriage equality day on facebook, it's obviously political so I'll share my status with all of you:

Not that I disagree with you, but there is a problem here tho. The Supreme Court upheld legislation banning bigamy on the general premise that it went against American cultural values (a Christain nation).

If you allow DOMA to be stricken down, which called marriage and act between one man and one woman, I cannot see how bigamy or polygamy can be outlawed so long as both men and women have the right to marry multiple people.
 

GoIrish41

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Apparently today is national gay marriage equality day on facebook, it's obviously political so I'll share my status with all of you:

If I saw this on Facebook, I would "like" it. Since I saw it here, I'll rep you. Excellent post Buster.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Apparently today is national gay marriage equality day on facebook, it's obviously political so I'll share my status with all of you:

I'm actually pro gay marriage I guess, but that distinguishment from incest doesn't fly. "Nobody can marry their brother" is the equivalent type of prohibition as "nobody can marry the opposite sex". Both prohibitions apply equally to all persons. It's just that the burdens of the prohibitions fall disproportionately on those who either want to marry their brothers, or marry the opposite sex. (Those who want neither don't really care).

So the prohibition "men can marry whoever they want, just not their brothers" = "men can marry whoever they want, just not other men". If incest makes you queasy, take it up with your Western European/Anglo cultural norms, not the state.
 

phgreek

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Amen...

I don't care...

no one should care when they put their government hat on...

maybe people should care from a spiritual perspective, and I respect that...but thats up to INDIVIDUALS to work out amongst themselves

Lets throw it all out...all the stuff government does where arbitrary winners are picked...Seriously!

It'd be nice to start a competitve proposal process for uncle sugar's money w/o being 10 points down because I'm white and stand up to pee...
 

Ndaccountant

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Amen...

I don't care...

no one should care when they put their government hat on...

maybe people should care from a spiritual perspective, and I respect that...but thats up to INDIVIDUALS to work out amongst themselves

Lets throw it all out...all the stuff government does where arbitrary winners are picked...Seriously!

It'd be nice to start a competitve proposal process for uncle sugar's money w/o being 10 points down because I'm white and stand up to pee...

If you are against Compensatory Justice, well, you don't have a heart.
 
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