Police State USA

[Rogue219]

1. Use the over abundance of traffic cameras instead of traffic stops. The Freedoms and I know my rights brigade should not want police to be able to pull anyone over just because they feel like it. Do we really need police to ticket speeders and pull people over for expired license plates? Seems like we have the technology for that and avoiding these kinds of encounters is a good start to avoiding violent encounters.

2. More mental health professionals. Certain emergency calls need to either have a a mental health professional respond or have a mental health professional go along with the officer responding to the call. Great opportunity to train and staff a workforce desperately needed because whether you choose to ignore it or not, we have a mental health problem in this country and are in desperate need of people who can start mitigating some of it.

3. Get rid of the minor infractions. Too many little fines for stupid little things build up and escalate into bigger fines and bigger problems. Wipe the system clean so that people don't have these ticky tack fouls build up to the point that they're minor offending outlaws. Too many people run or try to hide because of these types of fines, and that only escalates a situation that results in them getting shot.

For my money, this gets the police and the community on the same side. Cuts back on paperwork and nothing here is "Defunding" anyone or anything. Encounters and busy work go down if you cut some of this stuff out. Then start with systemic reforms, more training, culture changes and building of trust.

 

[Rogue219]

I agree with what Lax has said many times in this thread. Tons of more funding for training, much higher pay, and much more stringent hiring requirements.

Yes.

My brother in law became a sheriff's deputy recently in a southern state. He majored in Communications in college and then tried to become a teacher. Never got a degree. So he enters training to become a police officer. Within months he had a weapon and was basically trained, graduated and hired.

This is a person who up until months prior to that was still having his cell phone bill paid for by his mother.

I'm also fairly certain based on some of his tattoos and social media postings that if he's not a Proud Boy, he's a crystal ball hard lean to a verbal commitment.

This is one example that is very close to home, but this isn't isolated by the individual, state or county where he works. He became a sheriff's deputy incredibly fast.

 

[dublinirish]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1386466561691684865?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[NorthDakota]

1. Use the over abundance of traffic cameras instead of traffic stops. The Freedoms and I know my rights brigade should not want police to be able to pull anyone over just because they feel like it. Do we really need police to ticket speeders and pull people over for expired license plates? Seems like we have the technology for that and avoiding these kinds of encounters is a good start to avoiding violent encounters.

2. More mental health professionals. Certain emergency calls need to either have a a mental health professional respond or have a mental health professional go along with the officer responding to the call. Great opportunity to train and staff a workforce desperately needed because whether you choose to ignore it or not, we have a mental health problem in this country and are in desperate need of people who can start mitigating some of it.

3. Get rid of the minor infractions. Too many little fines for stupid little things build up and escalate into bigger fines and bigger problems. Wipe the system clean so that people don't have these ticky tack fouls build up to the point that they're minor offending outlaws. Too many people run or try to hide because of these types of fines, and that only escalates a situation that results in them getting shot.

For my money, this gets the police and the community on the same side. Cuts back on paperwork and nothing here is "Defunding" anyone or anything. Encounters and busy work go down if you cut some of this stuff out. Then start with systemic reforms, more training, culture changes and building of trust.

I think you need police for traffic infractions. They can use subjective enforcement.
"Do we need to ticket the guy going 30 in a 25 in this situation?"

I hear people complain about DUI's not being taken seriously enough.... guess how the police crack down on it? "He's speeding... and it's 2:30 AM."

I have been pulled over for ticky tack things late at night a couple times. As long as I did something wrong I've never minded. It's annoying but that's how they snag a ton of drunk drivers and idk how else that can really be done.

I also don't think it's realistic to use computers/cameras for everything. We gonna put up cameras on every road in every town? What about state and federal highways?

I should find the judicial opinion that ended one of our sherriff's deputy's careers.. it's already not allowed for a cop to randomly pull you over. "Terry Stop" case law sets the bar low for police, but there is a bar.

I also don't think it's really practical to get rid of traffic stops. We gonna put traffic cameras up throughout every town? Every county road?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Public_Citizen/status/1386466561691684865?s=20[/TWEET]

They also get to purchase surplus military gear and equipment which has conrbiuted to the militarization of police level LEOs.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

They also get to purchase surplus military gear and equipment which has conrbiuted to the militarization of police level LEOs.

I don’t think cops should get stuff like grenade launchers or “weapons of war” but the trucks above along with body armor (steel vest plates, ballistic helmets, and shields..etc) not only do I not see anything wrong with it, they saved countless lives. Those trucks act as barricades when a bad guy is using rifle rounds to shoot at civilians/cops when a police car wouldnt provide any cover what so ever. Same thing with steel vest plates to protect cops. I get the look can be “intimidating” but safety shouldn’t be compromised. Now with that said, those trucks should be driving around town and should only be used when it’s necessary.


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[GUknights75]

I don’t think cops should get stuff like grenade launchers or “weapons of war” but the trucks above along with body armor (steel vest plates, ballistic helmets, and shields..etc) not only do I not see anything wrong with it, they saved countless lives. Those trucks act as barricades when a bad guy is using rifle rounds to shoot at civilians/cops when a police car wouldnt provide any cover what so ever. Same thing with steel vest plates to protect cops. I get the look can be “intimidating” but safety shouldn’t be compromised. Now with that said, those trucks should be driving around town and should only be used when it’s necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Plus those things make the officer feel more safe and confident in their actions. Safe, more confident officers are less likely to make a mistake in the heat of the moment. Take those things away and you will have more trigger happy cops.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Shooting at a range more isn't going to change anything guys. Every situation an officer goes into is different. They're like fingerprints, none are the same. Which is why I think they're doing a pretty incredible (and thankless) job if you think about it given the hundreds of millions of interactions they race into.

We have some really dumb curriculum in HS's. Let's add a "how not to be an idiot when pulled over" to it. It will save more lives than additional range time.

I'm not talking about a range, although that's still important. These shootings aren't happening when an officer aims at a beer can and clips a bystander. You need simulated training like you see with all top agencies/forces. These should be done consistently throughout the year and the script needs to constantly change/not be known by the officers. You need to simulate stress and reaction in the best possible way.

I think the police are doing the best they can but we can certainly improve their ability to handle stress better.

I don't get why people are so adamant the police don't need more training. Do I really need to provide more data for this?

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jobs-training-police-trnd/index.html

I'm sure some of you will look at the source and immediately pass on it but please read, this was one of the first article found when doing my quick search. Our police force needs more and better training, not less. Officers who are fearful make bad, impulsive decisions to find security/make it home.

Constant hand to hand/BJJ/Krav Maga-style training should be done monthly. You wouldn't believe how much more confident and prepared you feel when training.

I'm sure there are other things we can do to simulate stressful situations and help officers keep composure.

 

[Trait Expectations]

They also get to purchase surplus military gear and equipment which has conrbiuted to the militarization of police level LEOs.

I'd love to know how much they actually paid for that. If it's repurposed military gear, surely they are getting a subsidized price, right?

 

[Blazers46]

I'm not talking about a range, although that's still important. These shootings aren't happening when an officer aims at a beer can and clips a bystander. You need simulated training like you see with all top agencies/forces. These should be done consistently throughout the year and the script needs to constantly change/not be known by the officers. You need to simulate stress and reaction in the best possible way.

I think the police are doing the best they can but we can certainly improve their ability to handle stress better.

I don't get why people are so adamant the police don't need more training. Do I really need to provide more data for this?

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jobs-training-police-trnd/index.html

I'm sure some of you will look at the source and immediately pass on it but please read, this was one of the first article found when doing my quick search. Our police force needs more and better training, not less. Officers who are fearful make bad, impulsive decisions to find security/make it home.

Constant hand to hand/BJJ/Krav Maga-style training should be done monthly. You wouldn't believe how much more confident and prepared you feel when training.

I'm sure there are other things we can do to simulate stressful situations and help officers keep composure.

I think you could make the argument the hours to become a barber is just absolutely absurd. But you never hear of unarmed customers being killed getting a trim so there’s that.

 

[Irish#1]

It's very easy to argue the rest of his point. If you can't change people, you can change the police force for the better. You can make your police force more confident in physical altercations, you can make your force more competent and prepared for weapons engagement. The police force should have mandatory monthly minimum training to keep a sharp edge. But these should be requirements and subsidized/paid for with our tax dollars. Our police force should be amongst the most competent and skilled in the world in high pressure situations.

There will still be lives lost because there are still bad actors in this world but I'd feel much safer with these protocols in place. Couple that with stringent screening and we've reduced one of the pathways to undesirable outcomes.

Sorry, but I disagree. He makes valid points. People need to be held accountable as much as the police do. As I mentioned numerous times, I'm all for police reform, but retraining the police and not work on society? People protest, riot and loot. Not cool.

These police incidents are a relatively low number. We have outrage (justifiably so) because police are taking excessive measures, yet we don't want to address the root of the problem and the reason the police end up dealing with these situations?

 

[Irish#1]

I think you need police for traffic infractions. They can use subjective enforcement.
"Do we need to ticket the guy going 30 in a 25 in this situation?"

I hear people complain about DUI's not being taken seriously enough.... guess how the police crack down on it? "He's speeding... and it's 2:30 AM."

I have been pulled over for ticky tack things late at night a couple times. As long as I did something wrong I've never minded. It's annoying but that's how they snag a ton of drunk drivers and idk how else that can really be done.

I also don't think it's realistic to use computers/cameras for everything. We gonna put up cameras on every road in every town? What about state and federal highways?

I should find the judicial opinion that ended one of our sherriff's deputy's careers.. it's already not allowed for a cop to randomly pull you over. "Terry Stop" case law sets the bar low for police, but there is a bar.

I also don't think it's really practical to get rid of traffic stops. We gonna put traffic cameras up throughout every town? Every county road?

Well Uncle Joe does want to build the infrastructure, so just throw on another $500B to pay for it.

 

[Irish#1]

1. Use the over abundance of traffic cameras instead of traffic stops. The Freedoms and I know my rights brigade should not want police to be able to pull anyone over just because they feel like it. Do we really need police to ticket speeders and pull people over for expired license plates? Seems like we have the technology for that and avoiding these kinds of encounters is a good start to avoiding violent encounters.

2. More mental health professionals. Certain emergency calls need to either have a a mental health professional respond or have a mental health professional go along with the officer responding to the call. Great opportunity to train and staff a workforce desperately needed because whether you choose to ignore it or not, we have a mental health problem in this country and are in desperate need of people who can start mitigating some of it.

3. Get rid of the minor infractions. Too many little fines for stupid little things build up and escalate into bigger fines and bigger problems. Wipe the system clean so that people don't have these ticky tack fouls build up to the point that they're minor offending outlaws. Too many people run or try to hide because of these types of fines, and that only escalates a situation that results in them getting shot.

For my money, this gets the police and the community on the same side. Cuts back on paperwork and nothing here is "Defunding" anyone or anything. Encounters and busy work go down if you cut some of this stuff out. Then start with systemic reforms, more training, culture changes and building of trust.

I'm not sure adding an abundance of cameras will help much. We already have cameras at a lot of intersections to capture red light runners. We do need to have traffic stops for those who appear to be driving under the influence. What I would agree on, is speeding violations. Just have the policeman take a pic of the speeder, their license plate and the radar, then send the ticket. One hurdle is people drive other peoples cars. I could lend you my car. Cops captures you going 80mph in a 55, but they don't know it's not me. Trying to persuade the judge it wasn't me driving might prove a bit difficult. lol

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not sure adding an abundance of cameras will help much. We already have cameras at a lot of intersections to capture red light runners. We do need to have traffic stops for those who appear to be driving under the influence. What I would agree on, is speeding violations. Just have the policeman take a pic of the speeder, their license plate and the radar, then send the ticket. One hurdle is people drive other peoples cars. I could lend you my car. Cops captures you going 80mph in a 55, but they don't know it's not me. Trying to persuade the judge it wasn't me driving might prove a bit difficult. lol

We also, need to remember that many cities and towns generate a lot of their operating revenue from traffic fines. If you remove that, then taxes have to be raised to make up the difference.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not talking about a range, although that's still important. These shootings aren't happening when an officer aims at a beer can and clips a bystander. You need simulated training like you see with all top agencies/forces. These should be done consistently throughout the year and the script needs to constantly change/not be known by the officers. You need to simulate stress and reaction in the best possible way.

I think the police are doing the best they can but we can certainly improve their ability to handle stress better.

I don't get why people are so adamant the police don't need more training. Do I really need to provide more data for this?

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/jobs-training-police-trnd/index.html

I'm sure some of you will look at the source and immediately pass on it but please read, this was one of the first article found when doing my quick search. Our police force needs more and better training, not less. Officers who are fearful make bad, impulsive decisions to find security/make it home.

Constant hand to hand/BJJ/Krav Maga-style training should be done monthly. You wouldn't believe how much more confident and prepared you feel when training.

I'm sure there are other things we can do to simulate stressful situations and help officers keep composure.

Who is adamant against more training? In all fairness, training monthly is not practical or realistic. Training every month would probably require additional policemen to continue patrols and coverage while officers are away training. Once every six months or once a year seems more reasonable IMO.

 

[Irish#1]

Let's give one up for the police. Fight breaks out in a Chuckie Cheese. Police have body cams turned on as soon as they get out of the car. Apparently two kids got into it. Rather than talking about it and addressing the kids, the parents get into it where it escalates and requires the manager to call the police. One lady pulls a gun. What an idiot.

https://fox8.com/news/police-release-body-camera-video-during-chuck-e-cheese-fight/

 

[GowerND11]

Cameras everywhere? No way. I like my 4th Amendment rights.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Sorry, but I disagree. He makes valid points. People need to be held accountable as much as the police do. As I mentioned numerous times, I'm all for police reform, but retraining the police and not work on society? People protest, riot and loot. Not cool.

These police incidents are a relatively low number. We have outrage (justifiably so) because police are taking excessive measures, yet we don't want to address the root of the problem and the reason the police end up dealing with these situations?

Great, share your plan for changing people. If you can devise a method to produce results then I'm all for it. I've never once said the public aren't at fault. That's why police are put into a position of power: to respond to disorderly, aggressive and bad actors.

I'd argue the "root of the problem" will always exist and acting like some public messaging or courses in public school will somehow fix that is fantasy thinking. Perhaps you both have a brilliant idea for reforming society so I'm all ears.

 

[Irish#1]

Great, share your plan for changing people. If you can devise a method to produce results then I'm all for it. I've never once said the public aren't at fault. That's why police are put into a position of power: to respond to disorderly, aggressive and bad actors.

I'd argue the "root of the problem" will always exist and acting like some public messaging or courses in public school will somehow fix that is fantasy thinking. Perhaps you both have a brilliant idea for reforming society so I'm all ears.

IrishRazor82 posted

The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

Brilliant idea? Me? lol

I'm no Einstein, but that change starts at home.

 

[IrishRazor82]

I stand by a "how not to be an idiot" class will solve more of these issues than any other, and it is the most practical to implement. HS'ers have time, news flash.

How many police shooting are there when you remove physically resisting arrest or not dropping what they tell you to drop? That probably cuts it down to like 8 a year... Focus on the problem, 1) it's not as much of a problem as the public thinks, and 2) the biggest opportunity is to tell kids early and often that this is serious business and you better obey and not fight or else bad things can happen.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I stand by a "how not to be an idiot" class will solve more of these issues than any other, and it is the most practical to implement. HS'ers have time, news flash.

How many police shooting are there when you remove physically resisting arrest or not dropping what they tell you to drop? That probably cuts it down to like 8 a year... Focus on the problem, 1) it's not as much of a problem as the public thinks, and 2) the biggest opportunity is to tell kids early and often that this is serious business and you better obey and not fight or else bad things can happen.

Your class is the easiest thing to implement? And what does this class teach that wasn't previously known by the public? Everything you posted is what I've been told my whole life and I'd guess that info is understood by 95% of Americans. So what is this class going to do? Help potential bad actors be good actors? And it'll do that by saying, "Don't be an idiot"? I believe you're serious but it's like when my kids discuss things with me and they say, "well why don't all people just choose to do the good thing?". You appear to be bordering on the naivete of a child.

I'm borderline mesmerized that after posting the numbers/stats above, your entire reply is "Nope, the public should learn better".

 

[Blazers46]

Your class is the easiest thing to implement? And what does this class teach that wasn't previously known by the public? Everything you posted is what I've been told my whole life and I'd guess that info is understood by 95% of Americans. So what is this class going to do? Help potential bad actors be good actors? And it'll do that by saying, "Don't be an idiot"? I believe you're serious but it's like when my kids discuss things with me and they say, "well why don't all people just choose to do the good thing?". You appear to be bordering on the naivete of a child.

I'm borderline mesmerized that after posting the numbers/stats above, your entire reply is "Nope, the public should learn better".

The problem is not with most Americans. If you look at the stats these incidents do not happen (statistically) as often to even really call it a problem. What other profession gets scrutinized for making a mistake 0.000005% of the time? So its safe to assume most Americans and police know their role and play their roll. Its the tiny tiny fraction that does not, on both sides.

 

[Irish#1]

Everything you posted is what I've been told my whole life and I'd guess that info is understood by 95% of Americans.

Playing devil's advocate, one could say the same thing about the police. They understand what they should and shouldn't do.

You call me a genius in a sarcastic manner and now IrishRazor82 is bordering on the naivete of a child? Tread lightly my friend.

 

[drayer54]

The problem is not with most Americans. If you look at the stats these incidents do not happen (statistically) as often to even really call it a problem. What other profession gets scrutinized for making a mistake 0.000005% of the time? So its safe to assume most Americans and police know their role and play their roll. Its the tiny tiny fraction that does not, on both sides.

Nuclear operators, submariners, and NASA.

Solving our societal decay is not easy. We should start by addressing the lack of consequences that cause so many people to resist arrest and commit crimes. Fewer people committing crimes leads to fewer apprehensions.

However- your statistics are challenged by woke Hollywood white liberal lady-
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/chelseahandler/status/1381975967917240322?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[Blazers46]

Nuclear operators, submariners, and NASA.

Solving our societal decay is not easy. We should start by addressing the lack of consequences that cause so many people to resist arrest and commit crimes. Fewer people committing crimes leads to fewer apprehensions.

However- your statistics are challenged by woke Hollywood white liberal lady-
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/chelseahandler/status/1381975967917240322?s=20[/TWEET]

Fake woke stats are why POC are "scared" of police. I have heard defendents admit to lying about why they ran from the police. Its not because they were guilty, its because they were black and they were scared... at least that is what they tell judge/jury. And how dare they not believe them.

I was once in the process of getting a job about 12 years ago. (It was a job at the Juvenile Justice Center in South Bend through Rite of Passage based out of Minden, NV for those curious). The only hiccup was I had 3 points on my driving record. The local Hiring Manager called the HR person in NV and she said on speaker "If he is black we can just tell the insurance company it was a case of racial profiling". There are benefit to race mongering.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Playing devil's advocate, one could say the same thing about the police. They understand what they should and shouldn't do.

You call me a genius in a sarcastic manner and now IrishRazor82 is bordering on the naivete of a child? Tread lightly my friend.

Tread lightly why? Are you going to get mean? I never called you a genius, I asked you to offer your brilliant plan for changing the minority of bad actors. I don't get either of your positions and I'll start treading heavier if it means we have fruitful discussion.

I believe training police to better handle high intensity both in physical altercations and in weapons training would reduce the number of shootings to the degree that we are able. And I'm grateful to the police for the job they do. For some reason, "we can do better" always gets followed by, "We're doing enough, it's the others who should change".

You believe a class on "not being an idiot" will break through to the kids who are of lower socio-economic status, the same kids who are most likely to end up on the other end of a POs pistol. Do I have that right?

 

[Rocket89]

I love how we’re told we have to solve centuries of societal ills, income equality, and racial division while training police to not shoot people who run away is some impossible Herculean task that can’t be accomplished.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I stand by my previous statement that if you value our foundation of government and its intent, then no man is above the law and no man is beneath it. Due process is for all even the thugs, gangbangers, rapscallions, and rablerousers among us. If we arent doing all we can to ensure the worst among us gets theri day in court then we arent doing enough.

 

[TorontoGold]

I love how we’re told we have to solve centuries of societal ills, income equality, and racial division while training police to not shoot people who run away is some impossible Herculean task that can’t be accomplished.

Man, and that's not even tackling non-shooting related abuses. "At least you didn't get shot today, son."

 

[NorthDakota]

I stand by my previous statement that if you value our foundation of government and its intent, then no man is above the law and no man is beneath it. Due process is for all even the thugs, gangbangers, rapscallions, and rablerousers among us. If we arent doing all we can to ensure the worst among us gets theri day in court then we arent doing enough.

Most people don't disagree with that. You may run into issues with people on what "doing all we can" entails.