Police State USA

[Blazers46]

Pretty crass to chide someone's mother-in-law's death, to simp for Derek Chauvin.

I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.

 

[Blazers46]

For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.

 

[TorontoGold]

I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.

Yeah, that's totally the sentiment of your post. I'm sure you were genuinely wondering why Cack did go for the exact charges that Chauvin got.

Sensitivity police? You must have me mistaken.

 

[NorthDakota]

I guess I am confused why settle if you could drop the hammer on them. Stop being the sensitivity police.

People settle for any number of reasons.

 

[Irish#1]

It’s exactly the same conversation. Self medication versus prescription abuse versus legality and a doctors role in it is all the same conversation. Can’t have one without the other.

Self medicating? Lol

 

[Blazers46]

Yeah, that's totally the sentiment of your post. I'm sure you were genuinely wondering why Cack did go for the exact charges that Chauvin got.

Sensitivity police? You must have me mistaken.

Not trying to be a Richard, but if you are going to use personal anecdotal stories to prove a point or make a point you open yourself up for follow up questions. If you are overly sensitive about someone being “crass” you should be reminded you in a political thread on policing.

 

[Blazers46]

In a fucked up way, I understand the *idea* of what this guy is getting at.

You have 700,000+ LEO's out there that might need to use deadly force some day. At some point, you want someone to train/address them on that possibility, so that they can act when necessary without hesitation or fear, because it might mean saving innocent lives.

So you take the angle "killing someone isn't that big of a deal, really," and try to make them feel more comfortable with the thought of killing another human. The thinking is that it's going to put them in a more reasonable state of mind when it comes time for them to pull the trigger on a bad guy, rather than hesitating and being scared of the personal/moral consequences.

You don't want a cop paralyzed by the implications of killing someone in the moment, you just want them to act.

The problem is that this guy swings the pendulum waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far in that direction, rather than trying to balance the idea of "killing someone may be necessary, and you need to be ready to do so," vs "killing someone is no big deal at all"

Reading your comment I am reminded of my constant complaints I had many years ago in regard to staffing different departments. Community policing and in the jails. A lot of departments give favor to applicants with a miliary background. I have seen many many college educated applicants sort of laughed at for being too "book smart" for the force but then they hire an ex military guy literally just a few weeks removed from serving overseas. The mentality carries over sometimes into the departments. People are different and some can easily turn the switch from fighting terrorists in the Middle East but some cannot to no fault of their own.

 

[Wild Bill]

For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.

Of course there are. I think you have to go to re-education camp if you say it out loud, though.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Self medicating? Lol

What is Lol? Just so I better understand your position.

 

[Trait Expectations]

For the sake of argument, is there anyone that feels Chauvin should have been set free to go home? I vote no.

What purpose does this question serve? If it was between dying and going home, I believe going home would've been the better outcome.

If the question is, should he have been set free?

If the police were able to write up a ticket for counterfeit bills while on-site, then I'd have been ok with him going on his intoxicated way.

 

[drayer54]

Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.

 

[nvirish]

Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.

Should have had a team of social workers to de-escalate the situation or allowed to the man to open up fire before the police took a fatal shot. Outraged!

 

[ND88]

Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.

We’ve got a comedian in the house who wants to use death as his set piece for his diatribes about how the media is sinister. No irony there.

 

[Blazers46]

We’ve got a comedian in the house who wants to use death as his set piece for his diatribes about how the media is sinister. No irony there.

The irony is the left has been using dead people as pawns for years. How dare he...

 

[Redbar]

Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.

Talk about identity politics, it is obvious that you see the world in black and white. Come up for air, take a breath, you are getting sucked under bruh.

 

[ND88]

The irony is the left has been using dead people as pawns for years. How dare he...

Yea, how dare he do the same thing you are criticizing. No logic hole there. I won’t appeal to empathy since only rational talk is accepted as valid argumentation on political matters here (italics on the rational talk).

Besides, if that’s your or anyone else’s excuse, how is that any better?

Degradation is degradation.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Another thug with a deep record has a gun, points it, and gets shot by police. This time with his 7 year old son watching. Tragic for the kid. This was in LA, so I expect Lebron will be weighing in soon. I’ll get my kente cloth ironed for the vigil. I’m sure if he were white they would have taken him in and stopped by the Inn & Out Burger on the way in. Not sure if anyone has started the mass gathering yet. Stay tuned.

We won't hear jack about this. It's a white guy, so obviously, it won't make it past local news. It may seem overly simplistic and racially-driven but it's the reality of how the mainstream media operates. They have a narrative, and they're going to stick to it. It's how somebody like Jacob Blake gets significantly more media attention and outrage than Daniel Shaver or Ryan Whitaker.

I'd be less angry about this, if it was just media pundits or athletes trying to push this narrative, but it's even being pushed by politicians in power to make change. It's disturbing when the President and VP actually believe the narratives regarding cases like Jacob Blake or Makhia Bryant, because why in the hell should they be in positions to make policy changes when they can't even be trusted to get the story right?

 

[TorontoGold]

Not trying to be a Richard, but if you are going to use personal anecdotal stories to prove a point or make a point you open yourself up for follow up questions. If you are overly sensitive about someone being “crass” you should be reminded you in a political thread on policing.

Yeah, and if I asked you about your sexual assault allegations of sleeping with inmates (as you've shared) whenever Cuomo etc. were discussed that would be over the top.

I was more pointing it out as crass so if some wanted to see an opportunity to be an equal arbiter on "tone" they would probably take issue with your post, and not just mine.

 

[Blazers46]

Yeah, and if I asked you about your sexual assault allegations of sleeping with inmates (as you've shared) whenever Cuomo etc. were discussed that would be over the top.

I was more pointing it out as crass so if some wanted to see an opportunity to be an equal arbiter on "tone" they would probably take issue with your post, and not just mine.

Why would that be over the top? Ask away.

 

[NorthDakota]

Why would that be over the top? Ask away.

Canucks may have different social norms

 

[IrishRazor82]

Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

Done.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

Done.

lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

Here's what our great state of Indiana requires:

http://Annual In-service Training RequirementIC 5-2-1-9(g) Presently 24 hours annually – must include 2 hours in Firearms*, 2 hours in Physical Tactics/Use of Force and 2 hours in Police Vehicle Operation.

2 hrs of firearms training per year. Per fucking year.

2 hrs of physical tactics/use of force.

I just can't imagine anyone saying, "that's enough for me. Fire that fuckin gun when you feel threatened"

 

[tussin]

I agree with what Lax has said many times in this thread. Tons of more funding for training, much higher pay, and much more stringent hiring requirements.

 

[Irish#1]

lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

Here's what our great state of Indiana requires:

http://Annual In-service Training RequirementIC 5-2-1-9(g) Presently 24 hours annually – must include 2 hours in Firearms*, 2 hours in Physical Tactics/Use of Force and 2 hours in Police Vehicle Operation.

2 hrs of firearms training per year. Per fucking year.

2 hrs of physical tactics/use of force.

I just can't imagine anyone saying, "that's enough for me. Fire that fuckin gun when you feel threatened"

I agree more training is required, but it's hard to argue with the rest of his post.

I think there is a need to develop better psychological screening for applicants. Even with that, the problem will still exist is smaller communities where the applicant pool is much smaller. At some point when know one meets the requirements, a lesser qualified person may get hired strictly to get the position filled. Especially if any potential loss of funding may happen if the position isn't filled.

 

[drayer54]

Count me out of the "police just need more training" crowd. They make around what, 1,000 lethal mistakes per year out of 300,000,000 interactions? No situation is the same and you are going to have mistakes made (look at surgeries). More police training won't do anything.

Know what would? Setting people's expectations so they aren't holier than thou from their desk, never willing to put their chest on the line each day with a family at home. Know what else would make a difference? How "not to be an idiot" course required each year for a couple of days in high school.

The best way to not get killed by a police officer has nothing to do with being white or black. Literally nothing. Here's how you do it: 1) Don't commit crime or hangout with criminals. 2) If you must commit crime or hanging with criminals, don't be under the influence or high on anything. 3) If you must commit crime and be high, don't resist. 4) If you must commit crime, be high, resist, don't flee or threaten.

Done.

This seems to imply that we have a people problem and not a police problem. I find that problematic because it requires a far more complex solution and we don't want that in this country. We want a simple problem and a simpler fix. We want to be mad. This would imply that many of those who die in use of force incidents do so because their criminal actions escalated the situation into a dangerous place. That would demand accountability on people rather than police. Hard sell.

I'd rather believe cops are evil and hunting people based on aggressive assumptions derived from biases in a world that I'm told is deeply and hopelessly racist.

It's working too. TSA didn't even fix this mess.

Definitely not a people problem.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/Dolphinfan201/status/1386407117884563458?s=20[/TWEET]

lol. So, you don't want the police force to have more training? Your little diatribe doesn't change the fact that our police force is woefully undertrained.

Here's what our great state of Indiana requires....

I agree they could use more training, but I'm skeptical most only get 2 hours a year of range time. They have a desire to live and recognize they need to be proficient in their weapons. I'm sure most police chiefs are taking action to defend their programs.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I agree more training is required, but it's hard to argue with the rest of his post.

I think there is a need to develop better psychological screening for applicants. Even with that, the problem will still exist is smaller communities where the applicant pool is much smaller. At some point when know one meets the requirements, a lesser qualified person may get hired strictly to get the position filled. Especially if any potential loss of funding may happen if the position isn't filled.

It's very easy to argue the rest of his point. If you can't change people, you can change the police force for the better. You can make your police force more confident in physical altercations, you can make your force more competent and prepared for weapons engagement. The police force should have mandatory monthly minimum training to keep a sharp edge. But these should be requirements and subsidized/paid for with our tax dollars. Our police force should be amongst the most competent and skilled in the world in high pressure situations.

There will still be lives lost because there are still bad actors in this world but I'd feel much safer with these protocols in place. Couple that with stringent screening and we've reduced one of the pathways to undesirable outcomes.

 

[drayer54]

It's very easy to argue the rest of his point. If you can't change people, you can change the police force for the better. You can make your police force more confident in physical altercations, you can make your force more competent and prepared for weapons engagement. The police force should have mandatory monthly minimum training to keep a sharp edge. But these should be requirements and subsidized/paid for with our tax dollars. Our police force should be amongst the most competent and skilled in the world in high pressure situations.

There will still be lives lost because there are still bad actors in this world but I'd feel much safer with these protocols in place. Couple that with stringent screening and we've reduced one of the pathways to undesirable outcomes.

I would argue they already are. We're talking about how many incidents out what really big number? And several of those contested, you will get arguments defending them like Ferguson, Kenosha, Columbus, etc.

It's not an easy job.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1386435993448898560?s=20[/TWEET]

 

[IrishRazor82]

Shooting at a range more isn't going to change anything guys. Every situation an officer goes into is different. They're like fingerprints, none are the same. Which is why I think they're doing a pretty incredible (and thankless) job if you think about it given the hundreds of millions of interactions they race into.

We have some really dumb curriculum in HS's. Let's add a "how not to be an idiot when pulled over" to it. It will save more lives than additional range time.

 

[Blazers46]

Shooting at a range more isn't going to change anything guys. Every situation an officer goes into is different. They're like fingerprints, none are the same. Which is why I think they're doing a pretty incredible (and thankless) job if you think about it given the hundreds of millions of interactions they race into.

We have some really dumb curriculum in HS's. Let's add a "how not to be an idiot when pulled over" to it. It will save more lives than additional range time.

Exactly. How do you practice stress? How do you practice a live situation where a 16 year old girl pulls a knife out another person? How do you prepare for a 13 year kid running down an alley with a gun in the dark. I have coached baseball for a long time. There are people (granted mostly kids but we are all human) that was probably a Hall of Famer in practice but would get performance anxiety or something and his practice did not translate on the field. I have worked with police and in jails where all the training in the world could not help because they freeze or I have seen guys totally see Red and go crazy.

We can cherry pick cases to make any arguement about policing but the stats do not back up most of the rhetoric on policing. Are people scared of police because they are big bad monsters or because they are taught and its constantly reinforced they are big bad monsters? The facts and stats do not back up the rhetoric.

I have asked this before... and it was even stated above. With the amount of police contacts compared to the amount of actual police shootings/killings and if you take away all the ones that are deemed justifed (but even if you dont), statistically speaking this is a problem that almost does not exist. Last year we had maybe 20 police killings of an unarmed black person (I am maybe a little high) compared to millions of police contacts. What number would be acceptable for BLM or the left that hate police? 0 is unrealistic.

 

[NorthDakota]

Exactly. How do you practice stress? How do you practice a live situation where a 16 year old girl pulls a knife out another person? How do you prepare for a 13 year kid running down an alley with a gun in the dark. I have coached baseball for a long time. There are people (granted mostly kids but we are all human) that was probably a Hall of Famer in practice but would get performance anxiety or something and his practice did not translate on the field. I have worked with police and in jails where all the training in the world could not help because they freeze or I have seen guys totally see Red and go crazy.

We can cherry pick cases to make any arguement about policing but the stats do not back up most of the rhetoric on policing. Are people scared of police because they are big bad monsters or because they are taught and its constantly reinforced they are big bad monsters? The facts and stats do not back up the rhetoric.

I have asked this before... and it was even stated above. With the amount of police contacts compared to the amount of actual police shootings/killings and if you take away all the ones that are deemed justifed (but even if you dont), statistically speaking this is a problem that almost does not exist. Last year we had maybe 20 police killings of an unarmed black person (I am maybe a little high) compared to millions of police contacts. What number would be acceptable for BLM or the left that hate police? 0 is unrealistic.

The number of unarmed people killed by police is absurdly low compared to what people think.

I forget what group did the polling and the exact numbers...but people identifying as "liberal or very liberal" estimated that somewhere between 1,000 and 10,000 unarmed black men were killed by police every year. "Conservative or very conservative" people estimated it was several hundred I believe.