Paterno Statue Down/PSU Penalties?

[Sherm Sticky]

Agreed. My buddy from Pitt is pretty optimistic about their program following these sanctions.

Def. Like I said earlier all the Western PA kids that want to stay in state will go to Pitt, plus them joining the ACC is a huge sell for them.

 

[tussin]

Def. Like I said earlier all the Western PA kids that want to stay in state will go to Pitt, plus them joining the ACC is a huge sell for them.

Yeah. I expect this to help ND's recruiting, but also make some of our traditional opponents tougher (mainly Pitt and BC) if we continue to play them.

 

[pumpdog20]

Any chance that in 4-5 years the team rebuilds with a "Us against the world" "Reclaim PSU glory" type attitude the same way USC is right now to a certain extent?

 

[IndyIrishFan1]

Yeah. I expect this to help ND's recruiting, but also make some of our traditional opponents tougher (mainly Pitt and BC) if we continue to play them.

Good call, I didn't think about that outcome.

 

[NDBoiler]

BTW these sanctions...

Good points Lax. This made me think about what was discussed between Coach O'Brien and the PSU administration when he took the head coaching job. Obviously he realized there was potential for sanctions at that time, but not all of the information we know now was out there. Does anyone have any insight as to what may have been agreed to between him and the administration if/when the sanctions came out? Any "escape clause" for him and his assistants? I can understand if the coaching staff wouldn't exactly be thrilled about the current and future state of their program right now.

 

[nlroma1o]

BTW these sanctions are worse than the death penalty for the program; better than the death penalty for State College, PA. This team is about to have a mass exodus of frosh & soph classes..... and really substantial portions of both the junior and senior classes too. The remaining players are going to basically be low 3/2 players and walk-ons. FWIW, the talent at Penn State was already crap.

Then they're going to lose everyone of any value from this recruiting class. And next recruiting class will be abysmal as well. The scholarship reductions are almost meaningless... because they will flat out not be able to recruit. Pitt is going to get all the kids who want to stay in PA. Rutgers/Maryland are going to get a lot of the kids from eastern PA, NJ, and MD that Penn State usually grabs.

So the way this plays out is that Penn State will suck this year with probably ~35-45 true recruited scholarship players... if even that many. In '13 they will suck even worse. In '14 they will suck horribly as well. The '15 recruiting class will be the first class where they will be able to convince legitimate mid-to-low 3 kids to come play at PSU for early PT.... and then by the time those kids are seniors ('18) they'll probably have about the talent level of Indiana on their roster.

So you're looking at a minimum of 6 years of complete irrelevancy. And that's the best case scenario. Like Sherm said earlier, PSU likely won't get out of this until at minimum ~10 years down the road. The first recruiting class that will have a chance at even mediocre, borderline top 25 talent will be the '18 class which will mean the program won't be seriously competitive for a Big Ten championship until 2021.

Death penalty an no other sanctions? You'd have started over with a pretty solid class of mid 3 players in '14 intrigued by oodles of immediate PT... maybe even a 4 or two.... and you could take a full 25 players. You could hypothetically get legitimate 4 players in '16... and have a very competitive team again by '17. So you're looking at it taking probably twice as long to fully recover from these sanctions vs. a straight 1 year death penalty. Although I do have my doubts Penn State will ever fully recover... there's a very fair chance Pitt, Rutgers, and Maryland become so strong over this period of 3+ years where PSU will flat out not be able to recruit that they may keep the momentum permanently.

Thanks for the great summary LAX. My immediate thought was that it wasnt, but i didnt take the time to think about the length of time these penalties are going to hurt them even after they are over. It's clear now that this is indeed worse than a 1 year death penalty.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Good points Lax. This made me think about what was discussed between Coach O'Brien and the PSU administration when he took the head coaching job. Obviously he realized there was potential for sanctions at that time, but not all of the information we know now was out there. Does anyone have any insight as to what may have been agreed to between him and the administration if/when the sanctions came out? Any "escape clause" for him and his assistants? I can understand if the coaching staff wouldn't exactly be thrilled about the current and future state of their program right now.

No out clause, he would have to pay something like $3 million in 30 days if he left. He already came out and said he is in it for the long haul.

 

[NDBoiler]

No out clause, he would have to pay something like $3 million in 30 days if he left. He already came out and said he is in it for the long haul.

Thanks. Kudos to him and his coaching staff are in order I guess. Not exactly a stellar career move though!

 

[Chamellion]

I've heard rumors that he is going to negotiate for something like 4 extra years, just to get through the playoff ban.

You better believe that every single D1 Program is salivating over PSU's roster. Not every day that you have a shopping list to choose from to try and recruit your weaknesses from developed players. For example, we would be foolish not to try and get a veteran corner from them, if they are an upgrade. word.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

How many years is O'Brien's contract?

 

[IrishLax]

I've heard rumors that he is going to negotiate for something like 4 extra years, just to get through the playoff ban.

You better believe that every single D1 Program is salivating over PSU's roster. Not every day that you have a shopping list to choose from to try and recruit your weaknesses from developed players. For example, we would be foolish not to try and get a veteran corner from them, if they are an upgrade. word.

I don't know their program well enough. Who are their starting CBs and how good are they?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

How about the reactions of the students? How could they be so shocked?

 

[DomeLover3]

If PSU can turn it around under O'Brien he just might be the second coming

 

[DomeLover3]

Adrian Amos, CB and some other scrubby CB from penn state are the only corners who would fit Diaco's height requirement. Amos looks like he could be a decent player. Not sure if he'd have any interest in ND. I hope we go after Ross Douglas

 

[IrishLax]

I just looked up PSU's depth chart in the secondary. It is actually WORSE than ours. By a lot, too. Both starting CBs are very lowly rated prospects... one is a soph so is in no better of a position than Josh Atkinson in experience. The other, Stephon Morris, is a senior and I have no idea how good he is but was lowly rated out of HS.

 

[NDBoiler]

How about the reactions of the students? How could they be so shocked?

Lack of perspective of the outside world. That's not just because they're college students either. It has been mentioned in various threads (and multiple media reports) that there are still many folks in the Happy Valley area, students and otherwise (including members of the Paterno family), who for whatever reason refuse to pull their head out of the sand and take a look at the big picture. Perhaps it's a coping or defense mechanism beyond my understanding, but some people just need to wake up. That is the exact attitude that created this situation - trying to ensure the "glory" of PSU football at all costs.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I'm kinda surprised they had the NCAA sanctions on the TVs in the student center. They turned the channel when the Freeh report was being read last week.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I just looked up PSU's depth chart in the secondary. It is actually WORSE than ours. By a lot, too. Both starting CBs are very lowly rated prospects... one is a soph so is in no better of a position than Josh Atkinson in experience. The other, Stephon Morris, is a senior and I have no idea how good he is but was lowly rated out of HS.

I know they wanted Prosise bad last year, but he shut them down!

 

[Grahambo]

Bryan Fischer has an article up about the BOT and how they don't get it.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Bryan Fischer has an article up about the BOT and how they don't get it.

Where can I find that article?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I thought I would take a minute to remember the victims, including those yet unknown. I think that is what is forgotten by those who protest the penalties, and want to move on.

That whole head in the sand mentality, some used to call it denial, seems to be an impediment to true healing, and moving on.

The contrast is Holmes parents, versus the Paternos. In every case these people the Holmes have shown class, and decorum. They acknowledge the problem and do not try to subtract from or add to it with their own words. Different kind of crimes, and I don't know anybody involved in either situation, but one set of people in the midst of the worst pain imaginable, seem to be doing the right thing. Only one set.

The NCAA and BIG 10 seem to be doing the right thing donating the whole of the cash penalties to victims groups. Who said it would go to lawyers? I think their program is pretty well thought out in most aspects.

As far as Penn State ball players and fans, I don't have much interest in inviting either to our neighborhood. Too much baggage. Maybe a few of the unsigned or recruits that have yet to attend . . .

 

[chubler]

I agree about the players, unless we can get a solid d-lineman who's a stand-up guy as well. Then again, a couple of months ago we would've had no qualms about taking a Penn State transfer...

secondly, I view this penalty with trepidation. If the NCAA is opening a new, tougher era and attempting to put the student back into student athlete this could be a great way to start. If they're just bowing to public opinion...
well, we'll know for sure by how hard they come down on Miami.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I'm sorry, but do they know it is not their turn to speak? Ironic that Joe never spoke up before yet his family can't seem to shut up now.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Adrian Amos, CB and some other scrubby CB from penn state are the only corners who would fit Diaco's height requirement. Amos looks like he could be a decent player. Not sure if he'd have any interest in ND. I hope we go after Ross Douglas

Amos was in the process of transitioning from CB to S. Consensus 3 prospect, but in perusing articles on him, several analysts projected him as having the best upside of PSU's DBs this season.

 

[yankeeND]

I'm sorry, but do they know it is not their turn to speak? Ironic that Joe never spoke up before yet his family can't seem to shut up now.

Won't let me rep gotta spread the wealth, great point!

 

[BobD]

I'm sorry, but do they know it is not their turn to speak? Ironic that Joe never spoke up before yet his family can't seem to shut up now.

They're worried more about their own reputations than the pain of the victims. Joe himself said he wished he had done more. As tough as it is, the family needs stop talking, accept it and try to move on. They are causing more damage by continuing to talk.

 

[IrishLax]

I hate Jay Bilas maybe more than any other sportscaster. Did anyone just listen to his BS on ESPN?

First and foremost, Jay Bilas legitimately thinks he is smarter than every other person in the room. The heir of superiority always annoys me.

Second, he contradicts himself maybe more than anyone else on TV when it comes to his narrative. On one hand, he hates the NCAA as an organization and roots for abolishment of amateur sports in the sense that college athletes should be compensated as if they were in a free market. When confronted with "they get a free education worth XYZ" he says that it doesn't matter because most kids have no interest in the education. As a central thesis, this is all fine. His idea that kids should be able to transfer wherever the hell they want and not sit out, that athletes should be allowed to get paid however much they want, and that education is not of value to these athletes are all consistent with each....

But then he gets on ESPN and takes his heir of superiority "as an attorney" saying he doesn't think it's fair to dock schools scholarships (period, under any circumstance) because it "takes away educational opportunities from X number of kids." It's one or the other, *******. Either educations have value or they don't. Either student athletes care about being students or they don't.

He also was factually inaccurate on a bunch of other things, but whatever. It's just so damn transparent that he is pissed that after 4 years at Duke he didn't have the talent to play in the NBA and never cashed in. He has a gigantic ****ing axe to grind that he never got paid and was a 5th round pick whose best accomplishment in the "big leagues" was playing in Italy/Spain for a few seasons.

He is so arrogant that he doesn't realize that he owes his entire livelihood - not to mention two degrees - to the fact that he played at Duke for four years and got a top notch education. He never would've gotten into Duke without NCAA basketball. He wouldn't have a career without covering NCAA basketball. Jay Bilas would be NOTHING without the NCAA. I really wonder how much he thinks he would've made in the 80s as a free-market college hoops player... he's either delusional with regards to how much he thinks he would have made, or he's delusional to how lucky he was to get a free education at Duke.

Either way, he's an idiot. /endrant

 

[woolybug25]

One thing to consider about having their players transfer, the exemption to the 85 man roster for their players is only good for one year. So we still need to consider numbers with this. I don't think we would take any seniors (for academic reasons), so any player we took would count towards our 85 man roster sans their first season.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm sorry, but do they know it is not their turn to speak? Ironic that Joe never spoke up before yet his family can't seem to shut up now.

The funniest part? People tried to interview Paterno... relentlessly in fact. And he dodged them day in and day out. Coward in life, and his family's continued actions are making him a coward in death.

 

[FWIrish4]

I did see a clip of Desmond Howard and his take on all of this and I agreed fully with him. He was pissed that people were still trying to stick up for Penn St. He said something along the lines of "These current players still have the choice to leave; those children didn't have a damn choice."