Paterno Statue Down/PSU Penalties?

[polishjuice4]

I have a question. If they are ban from playing on t.v. and we played them (I know we do not play them) do we not get to watch them. It is totally unfair for the other team.

 

[woolybug25]

You certainly live up to your name. I don't remember a post where you havn't bashed PSU.

I just don't like piling on to any university unless they deserve it as a whole. I disapprove of the piling onto Penn state not only because of connections to the university, but also because the majority of people connected to the university, including the surrounding community, is about to be wrecked. It is going to transform the town of State College into a totally different place. Football games bring so much revenue to the town, it basically lives for the fall. As businesses fail, its going to become a less safe place to be. It is currently one of the safest college towns in the country, and as revenue falls crime certainly will rise.

The university treated football as more important than children's safety. And that is wrong.

However, NCAA should recognize that banning football will have a bigger blowback to the surrounding area and thousands of people that are not directly affiliated to the university, but depend on it.

I've heard that the only two things in State College are Penn State, and the State Penn. NCAA should be intelligent enough not to take away the positive side of the town.

That is why I am against the death penalty for Penn State. I'm not even sure i'm for any type of punitive action from the NCAA on this issue. Those who were guilty are being dealt with in a court of law. However, it seems to be the NCAA's MO to punish the innocent for the guilty's wrongdoing (see: USC, OSU)

You are letting your connection to the university blind your understanding of the fact that PSU and Joe Paterno were not seperate from eachother. The amount of people that could have stopped this ranged from the janitors all the way up to the president of the school. The football program alone didn't hide it, the entire institution did.

Then there is the "community" in which you speak. What message does it send to other football "communities" if the university went unpunished for the worst type of crime there is?

I believe a multi year tv ban, bowl ban and severe restrictions to their recruiting would be a start. Then it's up to PSU themselves in addition to the Big10 on where to go from there. The school will heal, but culture that has been created since JoePa got there of the football team running the university has to change. This would happen through the process of the university having to rebuild itself.

I don't hate the university like Penn St Hater does, but I echo his thoughts in this situation. Anyone else that cares about the future of the university should too. If the school is ever going to regain the prestige it's fans and alumni believed it had, then the rains must wash it clean. It can be a new day after these sanctions for the university and the community of Happy Valley. They need to embrace this, start over and rebuild the reputation that they entrusted was being protected.

 

[Cali_domer]

@Lions247
Penn State's players will have a team meeting at 10 tomorrow morning.

 

[woolybug25]

I have a question. If they are ban from playing on t.v. and we played them (I know we do not play them) do we not get to watch them. It is totally unfair for the other team.

The non Big10 teams have time to reschedule games and the Big10 has a responsibilty to protect their brand. This is a lesson for all conferences that they need to play a part in protecting their billion dollar investment of tv deals, profit sharing and league image.



Anybody want to question how important our independence is now? How would you have liked to be linked to this simply because of conference affiliation?

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Im glad Paternos statue is coming down. I expect major sanctions against Penn State which include bowl ban, reduction of scholarships, tv ban, unethical conduct and lack of institutional control. The players should be allowed to transfer without restrictions. This will not forgive what happen to Sandusky victims.

 

[irishroo]

You are letting your connection to the university blind your understanding of the fact that PSU and Joe Paterno were not seperate from eachother. The amount of people that could have stopped this ranged from the janitors all the way up to the president of the school. The football program alone didn't hide it, the entire institution did.

Then there is the "community" in which you speak. What message does it send to other football "communities" if the university went unpunished for the worst type of crime there is?

I believe a multi year tv ban, bowl ban and severe restrictions to their recruiting would be a start. Then it's up to PSU themselves in addition to the Big10 on where to go from there. The school will heal, but culture that has been created since JoePa got there of the football team running the university has to change. This would happen through the process of the university having to rebuild itself.

I don't hate the university like Penn St Hater does, but I echo his thoughts in this situation. Anyone else that cares about the future of the university should too. If the school is ever going to regain the prestige it's fans and alumni believed it had, then the rains must wash it clean. It can be a new day after these sanctions for the university and the community of Happy Valley. They need to embrace this, start over and rebuild the reputation that they entrusted was being protected.

I get where you're coming from but I have to disagree. It seems to me that you're failing to recognize that you can't to punish a program or an institution - you can only punish the people who make up that program or institution. The major perpetrators of the horrendous crimes and subsequent cover-up at Penn St are either dead, in prison, or facing criminal charges. In my opinion, it's both unfair and counterproductive to place severe penalties on the current Penn St players, fans, coaches, etc. The best way to move on from this era in PSU football is to immediately begin rebuilding the program in the image of what PSU fans long thought their team and coach stood for - honesty, integrity, and working towards goals that reach beyond results on the football field. Penn St can't do that in the face of massive NCAA penalties.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The non Big10 teams have time to reschedule games and the Big10 has a responsibilty to protect their brand. This is a lesson for all conferences that they need to play a part in protecting their billion dollar investment of tv deals, profit sharing and league image.



Anybody want to question how important our independence is now? How would you have liked to be linked to this simply because of conference affiliation?

Well I have a feeling that Big Ten teams aren't going to be linked to Penn State much longer.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I am glad that the statue is coming down. I don't like that it is carefully being placed in storage.

I think that football should be ended for a while at PSU.

I am tired of the bullshiit press releases from the Paterno family. FukJoe.

I hope the US Attorney does a number on the University. They can bring civil rights, and RICO into prosecution, on criminal and civil charges.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Glad it came down. Took to long.

Now, I'll take an unpopular point of view on the whole death penalty. I don;t think they should get it. And I say this in compassion for the people who it will affect - not the football program, but the people whose livelihood depends on it. I'm talking about the shop-owners and the employees and all the people who need the football program to be around so they can make a living. You know how scary it is to lose your house and not have money to feed your family??? All because some sick bastard and the almost-as-sick bastards who covered it up?

My point is...hurting innocents is not going to take away all the pain and incredible damage the victims are going through and have been going through. Personally, I'd rather not create even more victims (albeit far different victims) just to punish the criminals. Like many small college towns, the Penn St football program creates a ton of jobs that you and I don't even think about. As someone looking for work in a small town, I feel their pain.

Now, I fully appreciate those wanting the death penalty, and I've read all the arguments. I personally just don't want it to happen, and it has nothing to do with the actual football. And to those that do want it to happen, I get that...

This was exactly how I thought about it, until about a week ago when the thought struck me that those people are the Paterno apologists that have been outspoken in their belief that Penn State is being unfairly persecuted in this situation. Their obstinate attitude is a symptom of the culture that has existed in State College that allowed this situation to happen in the first place. It wasn't just a handful of decision-makers that allowed this to happen, it was the cult-like attitude of the whole PSU community that allowed this situation to happen.

If the common response of "Penn Staters" was even remotely contrite, I would agree with you. But it isn't. The reaction has been beyond defiant. The "regular folks" in State College deserve to be put in their place every bit as much as those in charge.

 

[ChiRish]

You are letting your connection to the university blind your understanding of the fact that PSU and Joe Paterno were not seperate from eachother. The amount of people that could have stopped this ranged from the janitors all the way up to the president of the school. The football program alone didn't hide it, the entire institution did.

Then there is the "community" in which you speak. What message does it send to other football "communities" if the university went unpunished for the worst type of crime there is?

I believe a multi year tv ban, bowl ban and severe restrictions to their recruiting would be a start. Then it's up to PSU themselves in addition to the Big10 on where to go from there. The school will heal, but culture that has been created since JoePa got there of the football team running the university has to change. This would happen through the process of the university having to rebuild itself.

I don't hate the university like Penn St Hater does, but I echo his thoughts in this situation. Anyone else that cares about the future of the university should too. If the school is ever going to regain the prestige it's fans and alumni believed it had, then the rains must wash it clean. It can be a new day after these sanctions for the university and the community of Happy Valley. They need to embrace this, start over and rebuild the reputation that they entrusted was being protected.

Exactly. And how exactly does the University not deserve this? Their leaders, along with Paterno, were complicit in going forward with a coverup. So if the university and football program cannot be punished because the people running both were perpetrators of such a coverup, just how exactly do you punish?

In no way shape or form should the university or the football program be absolved of any responsibility. Penn State, its alumni, State College, the fans - all of them take pride in their university just as much as any other school. In that way they should be eager to take a chance to restore such a reputation.

This isn't a situation like USC. This isn't Miami, or even North Carolina. Those situations directly reflected the choices of members within the athletic department, or shadowy affiliates, on certain players. Here, there was a conspiracy between leadership in the university and Joe Paterno himself to cover up sexual abuse of children. Their decision to do so, and allow Sandusky to use football facilities, directly led to further abuse.

The reason this is related to the football program is because it directly involves Joe Paterno. Paterno was undeniably the boss of that school and did whatever he pleased. Other officials of the school and football program were intending to go forward to police and he stopped them. His dominance of all things PSU runs completely contrary to what an academic institution is supposed to stand for. Thus, in a way, the penalties aren't just coming as punishment for the Sandusky coverup (which in my mind would still be justified solely on that basis), but also for the culture and environment that was created at the University.

Simply put - if Joe Paterno hadn't been able to assert complete dominance over the entire university, it is quite possible none of the abuse after the coverup would have happened. And that, to me, is the very essence of lack of institutional control. If your football coach can prevent university officials from reporting child sex abuse, then how is there any control whatsoever? And even more than that - it's the furthest depths that lack of control could go to. The NCAA needs to send a message, and at the same time issue a deterrent, that this will not be tolerated. When you combine that with the ugliness of the coverup, and the underlying Sandusky abuse, the penalties are more than warranted.

I just don't understand how it would be fair, at all, to allow the football program to escape punishment because of the potential impact it might have on the university and the surrounding community. Maybe if PSU had exercised some semblance of "institutional control," they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now. Letting the school and program off because it might hurt the very same school and program that caused the damage in the first place is counter-intuitive.

 

[BobD]

I think they should put that 900lb statue inside Sandusky's jail cell and make him live with it.

 

[ChiRish]

I get where you're coming from but I have to disagree. It seems to me that you're failing to recognize that you can't to punish a program or an institution - you can only punish the people who make up that program or institution. The major perpetrators of the horrendous crimes and subsequent cover-up at Penn St are either dead, in prison, or facing criminal charges. In my opinion, it's both unfair and counterproductive to place severe penalties on the current Penn St players, fans, coaches, etc. The best way to move on from this era in PSU football is to immediately begin rebuilding the program in the image of what PSU fans long thought their team and coach stood for - honesty, integrity, and working towards goals that reach beyond results on the football field. Penn St can't do that in the face of massive NCAA penalties.

So we can forget it ever happened? So they can escape punishment? To think that it was only a few people who allowed a situation like this to happen is just untrue. The environment that fostered such lack of control existed in part from scores of people. The university is just as liable.

If the school and the team want to rebuild to show their honesty, integrity, and working towards goals beyond the field, then maybe they should first be honest about what happened and everyone's roles in it, illustrate some integrity by accepting responsibility, then work towards restoring those reputations in a legitimate fashion.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

People in the Central Penn Valley, built this thing. Joe Paterno just led it to hell. Everyone shares the responsibility for this happening. There were a hell of a lot of innocent Germans that paid economically and in other ways for the Third Reich, but in some ways, until you have the purge, you cannot move forward. Today Germany is one of the most forward thinking nations on earth, oh they still have idiots, but they had a chance to atone, and reset their attitudes, and take responsibility.

Eisenhower did echo local commanders orders and insist on having local townsfolk around the concentration camps, tour the camps, then bury the dead after the sick and infirm were evacuated; that even included digging the rubble out of the ovens.

Our country and society needs a chance to work this through. Putting football ahead of these poor souls. That is inhuman. We need to get our humanity back. Unfortunately, there is going to be a heavy cost for some.

 

[ohara831]

Aside from all the talk of the fallout that will hit the football program, what strikes me is this thought: Has there ever been a fall from grace as huge as the one of Joe Paterno? He has gone from being one of the most beloved and successful coaches of all time, a man who built a great storied football program, to being the scorn of college football. His legacy, once considered one of the greatest, is in tatters and likely beyond repair. I could almost feel sorry for him as he looks from the beyond at what is happening now. But then I think of the innocent victims, especially those who came after Paterno could have stopped Sandusky but did nothing. And then I lose all thought of feeling sorry for him.

 

[woolybug25]

I get where you're coming from but I have to disagree. It seems to me that you're failing to recognize that you can't to punish a program or an institution - you can only punish the people who make up that program or institution. The major perpetrators of the horrendous crimes and subsequent cover-up at Penn St are either dead, in prison, or facing criminal charges. In my opinion, it's both unfair and counterproductive to place severe penalties on the current Penn St players, fans, coaches, etc. The best way to move on from this era in PSU football is to immediately begin rebuilding the program in the image of what PSU fans long thought their team and coach stood for - honesty, integrity, and working towards goals that reach beyond results on the football field. Penn St can't do that in the face of massive NCAA penalties.

Have you read the entire report? Read that and than read Rhode Irish and ChiRish's posts. You are acting like there was four people involved and that's it. Janitors to the President knew with all types of people in between. The culture of that community is exactly what fostered the situation. The Penn State fans are still clamoring support for JoePa for crying out loud. Nothing but completely starting over will allow them to understand that the things they thought they stood for (integrity, honesty, etc). Those things cannot be faked. You have to actually be those things as a university, a football program, as fans and even as community for them to actually ring true.

It's difficult to truly be those things, and this whole situation is proof that none of them have existed in Happy Valley for a long time. They are all culpable...

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Aside from all the talk of the fallout that will hit the football program, what strikes me is this thought: Has there ever been a fall from grace as huge as the one of Joe Paterno? He has gone from being one of the most beloved and successful coaches of all time, a man who built a great storied football program, to being the scorn of college football. His legacy, once considered one of the greatest, is in tatters and likely beyond repair. I could almost feel sorry for him as he looks from the beyond at what is happening now. But then I think of the innocent victims, especially those who came after Paterno could have stopped Sandusky but did nothing. And then I lose all thought of feeling sorry for him.

Brilliant!

 

[Chamellion]

CBS Sports is reporting that Penn State will be fined somewhere between $30 million and $60 million, which will be donated to a children's charity.

Source: NCAA could fine Penn State as much as $60M as part of Sandusky sanctions - CBSSports.com

Sounds unprecedented to me.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I get where you're coming from but I have to disagree. It seems to me that you're failing to recognize that you can't to punish a program or an institution - you can only punish the people who make up that program or institution.

Its a cautionary tale, for certain. You damn well better be careful whom you hitch your wagon to. The community didn't care, didn't take much time to figure out who they were hitching their wagon to, they saw wins and money and said, hey ok, we're on board. I'm not saying those folks deserved to be punished, but life isn't a fair thing. The NCAA isn't damaging the community, Paterno is the one damaging the community. If he'd been ethical to begin with, this wouldn't be happening. He's to blame, not the NCAA. They are just the messenger.

 

[woolybug25]

Its a cautionary tale, for certain. You damn well better be careful whom you hitch your wagon to. The community didn't care, didn't take much time to figure out who they were hitching their wagon to, they saw wins and money and said, hey ok, we're on board. I'm not saying those folks deserved to be punished, but life isn't a fair thing. The NCAA isn't damaging the community, Paterno is the one damaging the community. If he'd been ethical to begin with, this wouldn't be happening. He's to blame, not the NCAA. They are just the messenger.

You somehow managed to say what we've all been trying to say in one sentence.

Reps

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think they should put that 900lb statue inside Sandusky's jail cell and make him live with it.

Only if they suspend it over him with 800lb test wire.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Their commits are starting to measure their comments a bit on the heels of the presser tomorrow. Like Lax or someone else said, more than a 3 year bowl ban and I think they are all gone.

 

[Grahambo]

 

[BobD]

Their commits are starting to measure their comments a bit on the heels of the presser tomorrow. Like Lax or someone else said, more than a 3 year bowl ban and I think they are all gone.

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand why anyone with a chance to get the hell out of there would stay, especially someone who's only verbally committed.

 

[DomeLover3]

CJ Potter ‏@potterkid15
Still can't believe they actually took down Paterno's statue.... Penn State has officially lost all respect #JoePa #RIP

This is one of Hargreaves' teammates. Not that its relevant to Hargreaves' recruitment but wow how do people take that stance...

 

[Grahambo]

CJ Potter ‏@potterkid15
Still can't believe they actually took down Paterno's statue.... Penn State has officially lost all respect #JoePa #RIP

This is one of Hargreaves' teammates. Not that its relevant to Hargreaves' recruitment but wow how do people take that stance...

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

CBS Sports is reporting that Penn State will be fined somewhere between $30 million and $60 million, which will be donated to a children's charity.

Source: NCAA could fine Penn State as much as $60M as part of Sandusky sanctions - CBSSports.com

Sounds unprecedented to me.

I don't know where our posts went, but I don't think I've been more critical than anyone else as far as this matter is concerned. I certainly don't think I've posted anything that would make me a "fool." I do hate Penn St. for a lot of reasons going back over 30 years, but I don't like what has happened there nor do I wish any kind of penalty that is not deserved. The crimes that were committed and the coverup that ensued are the worst things I've ever heard of on a college campus.

 

[Cali_domer]

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Hackenberg mentioned that South Carolina and Auburn would be the schools he would contact.

 

[Zwidmanio]

I get where you're coming from but I have to disagree. It seems to me that you're failing to recognize that you can't to punish a program or an institution - you can only punish the people who make up that program or institution. The major perpetrators of the horrendous crimes and subsequent cover-up at Penn St are either dead, in prison, or facing criminal charges. In my opinion, it's both unfair and counterproductive to place severe penalties on the current Penn St players, fans, coaches, etc. The best way to move on from this era in PSU football is to immediately begin rebuilding the program in the image of what PSU fans long thought their team and coach stood for - honesty, integrity, and working towards goals that reach beyond results on the football field. Penn St can't do that in the face of massive NCAA penalties.

Have you read the entire report? Read that and than read Rhode Irish and ChiRish's posts. You are acting like there was four people involved and that's it. Janitors to the President knew with all types of people in between. The culture of that community is exactly what fostered the situation. The Penn State fans are still clamoring support for JoePa for crying out loud. Nothing but completely starting over will allow them to understand that the things they thought they stood for (integrity, honesty, etc). Those things cannot be faked. You have to actually be those things as a university, a football program, as fans and even as community for them to actually ring true.

It's difficult to truly be those things, and this whole situation is proof that none of them have existed in Happy Valley for a long time. They are all culpable...

I agree with wooly's points on this debate but wanted to add a little something in reply to irishroo's point, since I've seen a number of people making it. In essence, if I'm understanding the argument, the central actor's that have done wrong at Penn State have moved on and have or are facing criminal and civil penalties, thus, there is no reason for the people left at Penn State to be punished any further.

In my view, those that make this argument miss a major reasoning behind NCAA sanctions: deterrence and motivation for institutions to make sure their employees and student-athletes are conducting themselves within the agreed upon rules. If it were as simple as a university saying "Hey, so and so is no longer a student/coach/administrator, you can't punish us at this point" then nobody would have any real motivation to abide by NCAA rules. The institutions could easily dismiss players and coaches and avoid sanctions. Players and coaches could also move on easily, albeit with a few more complications.

I understand that sometimes it seems unfair to those left behind. I certainly heard complaints from USC backers when they were sanctioned despite Carrol and Bush having been long gone, but I don't see how NCAA sanctions would work otherwise. You might add some provisions that would follow a coach or player around (I would support this), but universities need to be held accountable as well and if there was any case in which punishing a university might be appropriate I think we have one here.

 

[tadman95]

Any chance the Big 10 kicks them out?