Paterno Fired

[Jerry]

I don't think Paterno's situation was as easy as we're all making it out to be. Sandusky PLAYED for Paterno (and coached for him as an assistant for 30 years!). How often do you hear that a coach (in this case, Paterno) is a father-figure for his player (in this case, Sandusky). It works the other way as well. Paterno was acting (by doing nothing) to protect Sandusky. So to all the fathers, I want to ask what you would do if you found out that your son was accused of such a crime. Would you turn him into authorities or try to protect him? It's obvious what you would do if you were on the victim's side (as some of you have stated, you'd react angrily). That's not the point, however, because that's not the situation that Paterno was in (he's a father figure for the accused, not the victim).

How about getting your "son" professional help? You are protecting no one by letting him continue to use the Penn State facilities as a way to abuse his victims. Sandusky has serious mental problems to be 58 years old and having sex with a 10 year old boy. How was Paterno protecting him? Putting him behind bars in 1998 or 2002 would have been the best way to help and protect Sandusky. Instead Paterno and others at PSU provided a safe haven for a sick person, they supposedly care about, to continue to destroy the lives of children for at least the last 9 years.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This late in the game this probably adds little to anyone's understanding of this thing. But having spent my working life in a university I have a perspective on this maybe a little different.

Universities like to run their operations with as much closed door secrecy as possible. This of course leads them to making massive mistakes. There are well understood chains of command rifled all through the place, and unless one has a lot of courage one goes through them and keeps ones head down. This also leads to massive errors of judgement.

Incidents of immorality have a particularly large stigma which attaches itself to the University, and one gets the [again unwritten] message that one should quietly pass such matters up the chain of command. Profs sexually harassing coeds or worse are situations where the Dean of Students is supposed to take over. In some cases the offending professor is given a "leave-of-absence" or some such BS rather than firing him outright and causing a public stink.

Avoiding the public stink is the great goal of every Administration. Court cases are headed off with payoffs if necessary and "noise" is forcefully restrained if at all possible. This of course results in massive mistakes.

Football teams are like the university in miniature and even more tightly wound. Assistant coaches even will not make executive-like decisions on anything without approval of the head coach --- they coach at his pleasure and they know it. Hierarchy is strongly pyramidical and Grad assists are very intimidated. This of course leads to massive errors. [There once was an O-Line coach who was widely but secretly known within the profession for having run an athlete to death after practice and this was quietly ignored forever; he was always employed].

None of this is written to exonerate anyone obviously. It is written to add to an understanding as to how it could be possible for a person of less than admirable strength of character to make very poor decisions and continue to look the other way. I very much disliked at WMU that we could not summarily fire a certain psych prof who was predating on coeds --- even wrote a policy for making it easier to do without the university getting sued, but cowardice in the administration prevailed. It usually does in the real world, you know.


P.S. one of my brothers was recruited by Sandusky. He sat in our home several times, being the perfect gentleman and schmoozing it up with Mom. Ate at our table. My brother is absolutely stunned that this same man was a sexual addict and predator.

Mike, great perspective, as usual. I think it does give some meaningful context for why McQueary or the janitor didn't do more. But Paterno was at the top of any pyramidical structure at Penn State, and that is why many expected that he would do more to stop such a heinous thing.

I think there are other things that could help explain (not excuse) Paterno's inaction, having to do with interpersonal relationships and how people tend to respond to certain kinds of information. But I'm not smart enough to break any of those things down to digestible size tonight.

 

[NDPhilly]

What's happening with the riots? I saw they tipped a news van over but now what.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Something they mentioned on ESPN earlier was how McQueary may have stated what he saw in the locker room to Paterno and how Paterno could have interpreted what he was told. What they quoted was that McQueary conveyed there was "horseplay" and "inappropriate touching" between Sandusky and a minor.

Now, if that is in fact true, and if that is verbatim (more or less) how Mike McQueary told Paterno about the situation, does that change things? I know if I hear "inappropriate touch" that raises 80000 red flags. But, if you were 80 years old, would that trigger the same alarms?

Do you think that McQueary saw an old man raping a ten year old, was concerned enough to risk his career (in his mind) by telling his boss about it, then described it only as "horseplay"? This is all about attempting to establish plausible deniability, but please don't believe it. It is obvious horseshit.

 

[NYIrish14]

ESPN is acting like all these kids are angry over Paternos firing so thats why their rioting. Give me a break its a bunch of drunk kids who want to go out and cause trouble because they can.

 

[palinurus]

What's happening with the riots? I saw they tipped a news van over but now what.

Looks like it's breaking up. Ran out of beer, I suppose.

 

[NDPhilly]

Looks like it's breaking up. Ran out of beer, I suppose.

Any other damage? As if all these rape charges weren't enough they had to make even bigger fools of themselves by rioting.

 

[ndyeater]

Just young kids looking for trouble

 

[calvegas04]

Wish there was a link with all the penn st. recruits twitter accounts

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

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[JoeyGetherall]

I don't think Paterno's situation was as easy as we're all making it out to be. Sandusky PLAYED for Paterno (and coached for him as an assistant for 30 years!). How often do you hear that a coach (in this case, Paterno) is a father-figure for his player (in this case, Sandusky). It works the other way as well. Paterno was acting (by doing nothing) to protect Sandusky. So to all the fathers, I want to ask what you would do if you found out that your son was accused of such a crime. Would you turn him into authorities or try to protect him? It's obvious what you would do if you were on the victim's side (as some of you have stated, you'd react angrily). That's not the point, however, because that's not the situation that Paterno was in (he's a father figure for the accused, not the victim).

First he's not his son so don't make it sound harder than it was, that's ridiculous.

But to answer your question even if it was my son and I heard he was rapping a little boy I would confront his *** so fast he wouldn't have time to think and once I learned the truth that he was I would turn his *** in a heartbeat.

Of course I would probably be in a jail cell next to him cause I beat the leaving **** outta him and then called the cops.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Look at David Stern trying to steal some of Penn State's shine with the 1:00 a.m. (ET) press conference.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I don't think Paterno's situation was as easy as we're all making it out to be. Sandusky PLAYED for Paterno (and coached for him as an assistant for 30 years!). How often do you hear that a coach (in this case, Paterno) is a father-figure for his player (in this case, Sandusky). It works the other way as well. Paterno was acting (by doing nothing) to protect Sandusky. So to all the fathers, I want to ask what you would do if you found out that your son was accused of such a crime. Would you turn him into authorities or try to protect him? It's obvious what you would do if you were on the victim's side (as some of you have stated, you'd react angrily). That's not the point, however, because that's not the situation that Paterno was in (he's a father figure for the accused, not the victim).

I don't have a kid yet (that I know of), but I honestly feel like if I learned that my kid was a child molester or a serial killer or a terrorist or a white supremacist, I would disown the kid and never look back. I'd probably die hating myself for raising such a piece of garbage, but I certainly would never do anything to enable him.

 

[palinurus]

What's happening with the riots? I saw they tipped a news van over but now what.

Before they cut away to an NBA presser re continuing strike, they showed police spraying pepper spray or mace on students to chase them from an overturned media van, and showed students streaming away. The reporter on site said it appeared to be subsiding and quieter.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I don't have a kid yet (that I know of), but I honestly feel like if I learned that my kid was a child molester or a serial killer or a terrorist or a white supremacist, I would disown the kid and never look back. I'd probably die hating myself for raising such a piece of garbage, but I certainly would never do anything to enable him.

Your feelings will most likely change when you have one. There is no love like a parent's for their children. With that said, it would be heart shredding to deal with your child becoming a monster such as Sandusky.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

This is just unfathomable. On all accounts.

But, as easy as it is to say we'd do "the right thing" if we were in Paterno's shoes, how do we really know? Hindsight is 20/20 and we all enjoy believing we'd crack the skull of Sandusky if we caught him and definitely, immediately call in the 5-0 if we were JoePa...but would you really? If it came down to it and you were actually in Joe's shoes, who knows how you'd react.

It's really easy to play "armchair QB" in this time...

As a young or middle age man I would probably confront him personally. As a old 75 man I would call my AD, President and Chief of Campus Police and have them meet with myself and McQueary. I would than tell McQueary "Ok Mike, tell them what you told me." Once that was done I would say "what do we do now." Personally I wouldn't be satisfied until I knew the outcome was going to be that this incident was reported to local or state police.

 

[BobD]

Do you think that McQueary saw an old man raping a ten year old, was concerned enough to risk his career (in his mind) by telling his boss about it, then described it only as "horseplay"? This is all about attempting to establish plausible deniability, but please don't believe it. It is obvious horseshit.

^^Exactly^^..Once he said " I saw Sandusky in the showers with a little kid, at the football facility, while they were closed." I don't think he would then use "horseplay" as a description of what was going on.

 

[BobD]

I don't have a kid yet (that I know of), but I honestly feel like if I learned that my kid was a child molester or a serial killer or a terrorist or a white supremacist, I would disown the kid and never look back. I'd probably die hating myself for raising such a piece of garbage, but I certainly would never do anything to enable him.

I believe it was Bill Cosby who told one of his children "Look, I brought you into this world, that means I can take you out."

 

[Al H.]

I think the actions from him and the University in the last couple of days show why he didn't retire. Think about it.

Hey Joey; you 're talking 409, right?

 

[MNIrish14]

Article on ESPN says that Paterno never even confronted Sandusky after the incident (per his son). I completely agree with the decision of the University and the fact that people argue otherwise is disturbing beyond comprehension.

 

[MacadamianNut]

Well not to be melodramatic, but college football now has a much different feel imo. Paterno was the last symbol of everything right with college football. Coaching at a single school for generations building up a tradition while not having any major violations...and this happens.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Well not to be melodramatic, but college football now has a much different feel imo. Paterno was the last symbol of everything right with college football. Coaching at a single school for generations building up a tradition while not having any major violations...and this happens.

It is indeed a very sad time. Personally I dislike Penn State, but I respected Their football program and Joe PA. I am very disappointed in all of this and as shocking as it is, I feel the school did the right thing by letting Joe go as well as the President. I still believe that Joe PA is a decent guy, but I feel like others that there were other things he could have done to report this incident and to follow through to ensure that the allegations were properly investigated and dealt with. All in all it's a sad time because CFB lost a great coach. It was only a matter of time before he was going to leave, but to leave in this fashion is just devastating. My heart goes out to the kids that suffered the abuse and their families. It's deplorable what happened. Sandusky is a sick son of a bit@# and deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I hope in the end that justice is served and the people that failed these kids are held responsible as well as Sandusky. This whole thing is just tragic and makes me sick to my stomache.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Let me preface this by saying I can not imagine what these alleged victims went through, and how those horrible experiences have been a part of their every day life since they took place. My heart goes out to all of them.

That being said, I don't know I feel one way or the other about the decision to fire Joe Paright now. either way what I DO find embarrassing is that after all these years and everything Joe Pa has done for that University that they wouldn't give him the respect of calling him in and delivering his fate face to face. It is hard to fathom that that man has been at PSU since before most on this board were even born, and they found it appropriate to fire him over the phone. Letting him finish out the year, then moving on would have sufficed in my opinion. The president being let go, and Joe Pa leaving at the end of the year would have been a clear enough indicator that the school wanted a change in leadership to guide the ship through turbulent waters. Good people sometimes have lapses in judgement, and/ or make bad decisions. In this instance, it was a gross miscalculation of moral responsibility on Joe's part, but over the course of his 60+ years at PSU Joe Pa has more than proven he is a good man. The fact that this happened 10 years ago, and the board flat out said they still do not have all the facts and there is a lot of information that they are unclear on makes me wonder why they found it necessary to announce his immediate firing at the conclusion of their meeting. To me, it seems like a PR move to wipe some of the egg off their face, especially considering he overpowered their requests for him to step down back in '04 I believe.

 

[Gutman]

When your loyalties overlap, how do you prioritize them? It seems that Joe Paterno placed loyalty to his football program and Jerry Sandusky over his loyalty to the children who were at-risk of being abused by Sandusky. When my loyalties overlap, I look to the vulnerability of my competing loyalties. That is, in cases of child abuse of any kind, I will always choose the child, no matter who is the adult involved. Paterno's poor judgement in prioritizing his competing loyalties led to more children being raped by Sandusky. IMO, that is why Paterno had to be fired.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Gutman has made one of the few perfect comments in this thread.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

I agree OMM. Great post Gutman. It's just a shame that it all came down to this. The whole situation stinks but PSU really didn't have much of a choice and alot of people are forgetting the innocent kids that became victims and are scarred for life.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Let me preface this by saying I can not imagine what these alleged victims went through, and how those horrible experiences have been a part of their every day life since they took place. My heart goes out to all of them.

That being said, I don't know I feel one way or the other about the decision to fire Joe Paright now. either way what I DO find embarrassing is that after all these years and everything Joe Pa has done for that University that they wouldn't give him the respect of calling him in and delivering his fate face to face. It is hard to fathom that that man has been at PSU since before most on this board were even born, and they found it appropriate to fire him over the phone. Letting him finish out the year, then moving on would have sufficed in my opinion. The president being let go, and Joe Pa leaving at the end of the year would have been a clear enough indicator that the school wanted a change in leadership to guide the ship through turbulent waters. Good people sometimes have lapses in judgement, and/ or make bad decisions. In this instance, it was a gross miscalculation of moral responsibility on Joe's part, but over the course of his 60+ years at PSU Joe Pa has more than proven he is a good man. The fact that this happened 10 years ago, and the board flat out said they still do not have all the facts and there is a lot of information that they are unclear on makes me wonder why they found it necessary to announce his immediate firing at the conclusion of their meeting. To me, it seems like a PR move to wipe some of the egg off their face, especially considering he overpowered their requests for him to step down back in '04 I believe.

I think you need to think this more thoroughly. Joe Pa deserves nothing but a jail cell. I don't care what he did to build up Penn State. He enabled a child molester. He knew.

He is now claiming that he was given vague info from the grad assistant. Unbelievable. He has been king for so long that he has become utterly corrupt.

If you haven't read the grand jury indictment, good for you...I regret reading it. I am just so disgusted. Sandusky needs to fire and everyone who enabled him should go straight to jail.

 

[woolybug25]

Let me preface this by saying I can not imagine what these alleged victims went through, and how those horrible experiences have been a part of their every day life since they took place. My heart goes out to all of them.

That being said, I don't know I feel one way or the other about the decision to fire Joe Paright now. either way what I DO find embarrassing is that after all these years and everything Joe Pa has done for that University that they wouldn't give him the respect of calling him in and delivering his fate face to face. It is hard to fathom that that man has been at PSU since before most on this board were even born, and they found it appropriate to fire him over the phone. Letting him finish out the year, then moving on would have sufficed in my opinion. The president being let go, and Joe Pa leaving at the end of the year would have been a clear enough indicator that the school wanted a change in leadership to guide the ship through turbulent waters. Good people sometimes have lapses in judgement, and/ or make bad decisions. In this instance, it was a gross miscalculation of moral responsibility on Joe's part, but over the course of his 60+ years at PSU Joe Pa has more than proven he is a good man. The fact that this happened 10 years ago, and the board flat out said they still do not have all the facts and there is a lot of information that they are unclear on makes me wonder why they found it necessary to announce his immediate firing at the conclusion of their meeting. To me, it seems like a PR move to wipe some of the egg off their face, especially considering he overpowered their requests for him to step down back in '04 I believe.

What do you mean by "do not have all of the facts"? Have you read the grand jury testimony? If not, do so. The timeline and list of people that knew of the acts are very clear.

I also want to be ahead of the curve on this. For anyone thinking of saying that JoePa deserved more than a phone call firing, think of it this way. PSU did the minimum required to fire JoePa, kinda ironic considering that is the exact level of effort JoePa put into protecting children from being molested by Sandusky. If you read the timeline of events, several children were molested AFTER JoePa was informed of the shower incident. He is culpable by his inaction.

 

[ohara831]

I have no problem with the way the Board fired Joe. He tried to usurp their authority earlier in the day by announcing his resignation at the end of the season and by saying "the Board does not need to spend another minute on my status.". That is arrogance gone wild. Even at that late hour, he was still trying to dictate the terms of his departure. I think they knew at that time that Joe had to go - sooner rather than later. He was a great Coach, but his decision making in 2002 and over the past few days gave the Board no option but to act as they did. I applaud them.

 

[irishff1014]

Mike an Mike had Paul Posluszny on this morning and he said that Sandusky was around the campus still and the players were offered the chance to volunteer to help with the kids. WOW And this is all after the 1998 incident that the campus police knew about. there is still alot to be learned about this whole case.