Offensive Line Thread

[317Irish]

HH -> OL coach
Quinn -> ST coordinator (he can still help out OL and TE when not doing ST work)
Polian -> LB coach (which allows Leah to move around during practice)
Then hire an outside OC a RB, TE, or WR coach. Lance Taylor can move to WR if needed and Del Alexander can move to TE if needed.

That’s getting creative, but please no.

 

[NDdomer2]

I am not sure what changed with metrics for line yards and sack rates after 2017 - they dotn appear to be in the same format. We are missing two years of Hiestand's time with ND as data only went to 2014.

Overall, we ran the ball much better during Hiestand's time, but appear to be protecting the QB better with Quinn (all on average).

Interested to see how much these are impacted by WHO the running backs are.

Our power success rates with Adams and Williams have been by far the best 3 of any of the charted years.

Moving away from the zone blocking scheme has also appeared to negatively impacted our stuff rate. Not sure if we can put this on Quinn or not.

Here is the chart.

His 2016 line was 7 year best in 4 categories but also 7 year worst in 4 categories...

120th ranked standard down sack rate with 2 first rounders is crazy. One is a 2x pro bowler.

 

[zelezo vlk]

We’ve talked about it on here previously I believe. Has to do with his coaching style and conduct, and how it was received by some players no longer with the program.

For your second sentence: I thought the current LT had a problem and essentially would not be playing if HH were still here.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

HH being on the market right now is a late Christmas present from Santa you didn't expect. I hope BK lets him take the O line and moves Quinn to Tight ends.

Or ND can keep struggling to run the ball against MAC teams and 6-6 ACC teams. Whatever he wants, I guess.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This might be controversial, but if Harry doesn't want to recruit I'd pass.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

Off base. HH went to the NFL for the pension. He hardly had to recruit. He picked who he wanted.

BK keeping Quinn at O line and naming Rees as OC would be like the homecoming king asking the hottest girl on the field hockey team to the dance. Step up.

 

[Valpodoc85]

Not a huge Quinn fan but to be fair, teams figured out last year that Book is not great with the deep ball. They have been cheating safety's all year making the numbers tough in the run game.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Not a huge Quinn fan but to be fair, teams figured out last year that Book is not great with the deep ball. They have been cheating safety's all year making the numbers tough in the run game.

This plus I don't think people realize how much is put on the OL under Long's blocking scheme.

Mike from ISD mentioned it but ND basically has had to rely heavily on a power-scheme with a lot of pulling instead of just letting the guys go up and maul the guys in front of them.

That is mentally and physically taxing and it didn't help that our line already had a ton of injuries. Banks had enough trouble as is generating any sort of power with his broken foot, but add to that he's having to pull and sift through bodies to find the right man, that's a ridiculous task.

I don't necessarily blame Long, because this was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The power blocking put a lot more pressure on our OL and often times made them look bad, because they weren't able to execute at times. That being said, going with a simpler zone scheme would require more explosive and more instinctual runners.

Teams like Ohio State and Clemson can afford to run zone blocking, because you have guys like JK Dobbins and Travis Etienne running through those holes. They don't need to be open long. When your #1 back is Tony Jones, zone blocks won't hold up long enough for him to trot through.

I have a lot more respect for Quinn and the OL, because they were effectively in a no-win situation. Sadly, the RB recruiting efforts have caught up with us. We need a Dexter-caliber RB at the very least. A guy like Smith, C'Bo or Kyren needs to emerge. Not a luxury, they NEED to emerge and become more than solid rotational backs.

 

[Irish YJ]

Off base. HH went to the NFL for the pension. He hardly had to recruit. He picked who he wanted.

BK keeping Quinn at O line and naming Rees as OC would be like the homecoming king asking the hottest girl on the field hockey team to the dance. Step up.

IDK... That SI issue with FH babes was pretty awesome. I think several from the Dutch team would make smoking hot HC queens...

HH being on the market right now is a late Christmas present from Santa you didn't expect. I hope BK lets him take the O line and moves Quinn to Tight ends.

Or ND can keep struggling to run the ball against MAC teams and 6-6 ACC teams. Whatever he wants, I guess.

HH would definitely be a nice late Christmas present. Yes please.

 

[Irish YJ]

This plus I don't think people realize how much is put on the OL under Long's blocking scheme.

Mike from ISD mentioned it but ND basically has had to rely heavily on a power-scheme with a lot of pulling instead of just letting the guys go up and maul the guys in front of them.

That is mentally and physically taxing and it didn't help that our line already had a ton of injuries. Banks had enough trouble as is generating any sort of power with his broken foot, but add to that he's having to pull and sift through bodies to find the right man, that's a ridiculous task.

I don't necessarily blame Long, because this was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The power blocking put a lot more pressure on our OL and often times made them look bad, because they weren't able to execute at times. That being said, going with a simpler zone scheme would require more explosive and more instinctual runners.

Teams like Ohio State and Clemson can afford to run zone blocking, because you have guys like JK Dobbins and Travis Etienne running through those holes. They don't need to be open long. When your #1 back is Tony Jones, zone blocks won't hold up long enough for him to trot through.

I have a lot more respect for Quinn and the OL, because they were effectively in a no-win situation. Sadly, the RB recruiting efforts have caught up with us. We need a Dexter-caliber RB at the very least. A guy like Smith, C'Bo or Kyren needs to emerge. Not a luxury, they NEED to emerge and become more than solid rotational backs.

To be fair, I think you can run power schemes without all the pulling. I think it was an interview with Q where he says he prefers man/power to zone, but also prefers straight up road grading to pulling.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

This plus I don't think people realize how much is put on the OL under Long's blocking scheme.

Mike from ISD mentioned it but ND basically has had to rely heavily on a power-scheme with a lot of pulling instead of just letting the guys go up and maul the guys in front of them.

That is mentally and physically taxing and it didn't help that our line already had a ton of injuries. Banks had enough trouble as is generating any sort of power with his broken foot, but add to that he's having to pull and sift through bodies to find the right man, that's a ridiculous task.

I don't necessarily blame Long, because this was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. The power blocking put a lot more pressure on our OL and often times made them look bad, because they weren't able to execute at times. That being said, going with a simpler zone scheme would require more explosive and more instinctual runners.

Teams like Ohio State and Clemson can afford to run zone blocking, because you have guys like JK Dobbins and Travis Etienne running through those holes. They don't need to be open long. When your #1 back is Tony Jones, zone blocks won't hold up long enough for him to trot through.

I have a lot more respect for Quinn and the OL, because they were effectively in a no-win situation. Sadly, the RB recruiting efforts have caught up with us. We need a Dexter-caliber RB at the very least. A guy like Smith, C'Bo or Kyren needs to emerge. Not a luxury, they NEED to emerge and become more than solid rotational backs.

I don't understand the obsession with scheme. What scheme do they need to implement so we can watch 315 pound O linemen push around 250 pound DT's from Bowling Green and New Mexico?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Here is the chart.

His 2016 line was 7 year best in 4 categories but also 7 year worst in 4 categories...

120th ranked standard down sack rate with 2 first rounders is crazy. One is a 2x pro bowler.

Our eyes don't lie to us. In 2017 we watched an ND O line physically punish quality opponents and win the Joe Moore award. In 2019 we watched an O line that couldn't get a push on 3rd and 1...against anyone and coached buy a guy who hadn't coached O Line in TEN YEARS.

If there's one position group where ND can't afford to be average, it's O line. Really hoping BK jumps on this opportunity.

 

[Dizzyphil]

https://fightingirishwire.usatoday.com/2019/12/31/harry-hiestand-back-on-market/

 

[Irish YJ]

I don't understand the obsession with scheme. What scheme do they need to implement so we can watch 315 pound O linemen push around 250 pound DT's from Bowling Green and New Mexico?

 

[Bobias]

https://fightingirishwire.usatoday.com/2019/12/31/harry-hiestand-back-on-market/

Bring back Hiestand!!

 

[BeatSC]

I think our oline would have looked a lot better with Ciere Wood and Theo Riddick back there this year. Our RBs were at the level of a MAC team and none of them were ever expected to be a number one back just like Book and Rees before him were never expected to start one game. This oline should gel next year under Quinn and I would question throwing a new variable into that equation. HH should not be asked back on his terms and Quinn should be on board 100% so that team unity stays intact. We are going to need a run game more next year than we did this year.

 

[Irishize]

I don't understand the obsession with scheme. What scheme do they need to implement so we can watch 315 pound O linemen push around 250 pound DT's from Bowling Green and New Mexico?

Exactly. I understand the lack of an electric RB who can grab a crease & take it to the house like Dexter last season. I just want them to be able to convert 3 & 1 against inferior athletes.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Minnesota just ran for 215 yards against a very good Auburn defense with a bunch of no names on O line and a no name running back. #schemethat

 

[Riddickulous]

3 of the 5 first team All-Pro offensive linemen are our guys: Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, and Zack Martin.

 

[IrishLax]

3 of the 5 first team All-Pro offensive linemen are our guys: Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, and Zack Martin.

It's truly insane that we had that much talent on the OL, especially with some of these players overlapping. That '15 squad with a better DC would've been a real contender.

 

[Riddickulous]

It's truly insane that we had that much talent on the OL, especially with some of these players overlapping. That '15 squad with a better DC would've been a real contender.

Oh, what could've been...

 

[PANDFAN]

It's truly insane that we had that much talent on the OL, especially with some of these players overlapping. That '15 squad with a better DC would've been a real contender.

and big mike had an elite grade prior to his injury as well

 

[Whiskeyjack]

3 of the 5 first team All-Pro offensive linemen are our guys: Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, and Zack Martin.

B-b-but Hiestand didn't like to recruit, and he was mean to Tristan Hoge, so let's pretend he did us a favor by leaving for the Bears...

 

[PANDFAN]

B-b-but Hiestand didn't like to recruit, and he was mean to Tristan Hoge, so let's pretend he did us a favor by leaving for the Bears...

don't forget Liam as well

 

[BobbyMac]

3 of the 5 first team All-Pro offensive linemen are our guys: Ronnie Stanley, Quenton Nelson, and Zack Martin.

B-b-but Hiestand didn't like to recruit...

He only recruited one of them.

 

[Irish#1]

It's truly insane that we had that much talent on the OL, especially with some of these players overlapping. That '15 squad with a better DC would've been a real contender.

 

[snoopdog]

B-b-but Hiestand didn't like to recruit, and he was mean to Tristan Hoge, so let's pretend he did us a favor by leaving for the Bears...

But in 2016 ND rushed for 163 yds a game with McG and Q. So there’s that.

 

[IrishLax]

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-ranking-all-130-college-football-offensive-line-situations

ND's offensive line ranked 13th per PFF. They were #2 in pass blocking, and significantly worse in run blocking. Regardless, this was a SIGNIFICANT improvement over last year and it's reasonable to believe that with a better run blocking scheme + healthy Kraemer and Hainsey they will be a top offensive line next year.

 

[ThePiombino]

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-ranking-all-130-college-football-offensive-line-situations

ND's offensive line ranked 13th per PFF. They were #2 in pass blocking, and significantly worse in run blocking. Regardless, this was a SIGNIFICANT improvement over last year and it's reasonable to believe that with a better run blocking scheme + healthy Kraemer and Hainsey they will be a top offensive line next year.

That's friggin awesome news and VERY encouraging for next season!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[zelezo vlk]

They were fairly young/inexperienced in 2018, no surprise they took a leap this past year.

Sent from my SM-J337U using Tapatalk

 

[IrishFaninTX]

This is great news. I think we all remember how the OL wasn't perfect and many even thought they were terrible at times the year before they won the Moore award. Maybe the year before that. Not saying they'll win any awards or anything but with all 5 starters returning next year, it's promising that they improved quite a bit from last year and should be even better next year.