Offensive Line Thread

Luckylucci

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
27,769
Reaction score
10,146
FWIW, nobody called Tommy terrible. He was taken out of action at times last season due to poor performance and his inability to execute what was needed from our RG. Some was a nagging injury and some was physical limitations. Hence him losing weight and focusing on being more mobile. Keep in mind, it was Long saying that it's part of the system and it's not changing so he has to get better at it. Not sure how any of this can be interpreted as disrespectful. I guess in the famous words of Chase Winovich, it was all a mirage.
 

ulukinatme

Carr for QB 2025!
Messages
31,518
Reaction score
17,390
I'm in agreement with OMM. I don't spend nearly as long focusing on the line as he does, but being a former OT I watch them more than I do the skill players.
I seriously hope Quinn can get them to work together and continue to improve. I seriously think we should have tried to coax Warriner back though, rather than let him go to scUM. He may not have been a great recruiter, but he helped improve our OL early on and he's put together successful rushing attacks at his previous stops.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
I'm just giving you guys something to talk about. ... and a more-or-less St Paddy's day good feeling. Enjoy life.

.... and Kraemer will be drafted :=}}
 

Rocket89

Uniform Connoisseur
Messages
2,914
Reaction score
551
Not going to go over all of this again, stated my opinion on most of this before.

I don't think I was waving it off when I said this very well could be the right group but some Spring competition at an underperforming unit sure seems like a better approach than calling starters before it happens. Seems like if anybody is glossing over anything it's you on what I've been saying/already said.

Unless we are just being willfully ignorant to last seasons performance, I think it's fair to assume all jobs should be questioned, to some degree. And not necessarily that they shouldn't be playing but are they at the right positions.

Not naïve, was told this by some credible folks. Hence the disappointment. They obviously chose to go the status quo route with no additional information. Seems like if HH was here it might be different.

No, and I wouldn't consider it a crusade against any one particular player. Again, underperforming unit might need some changes, seems pretty simple

Neither has Kraemer. This is a former 5 star player (top 10 by 247, ugh) that after his 3rd year in the program wouldn't even sniff the draft. Yea, I think some real competition for him might be a good thing. Or maybe it's a different position. I don't know the answer, nobody does. Just seems logical that if players are underperforming, we give them real competition and maybe position switches. Happens all the time.

Let me rephrase and put it differently.

Last spring was an off-season to shuffle things around with 2 huge personnel losses. And they did! I believe 7 out of the top 8 all moved positions briefly during spring, the lone exception being Mustipher. It made a lot more sense last year.
Eichenberg, Lugg, and Banks were still unknowns and Kraemer & Hainsey were still on the young side and we figured one might not play tackle. Far less experience, 2 huge holes, but a collection of 7-8 bodies in a competition and a couple guys to figure out if they were tackles or guards.

This spring that type of shuffling and competition doesn't make as much sense. Everyone has a ton more experience, shuffling guys hurts continuity, and there aren't very many legit options for competition.

Also, Heistand almost never messed around with his lines and was super deferential to veteran experience. What Quinn did last spring was the most movement I can remember in recent memory. Not that I think it had a huge impact but the line didn't play well and I wonder if solidifying things earlier (especially Bars at left guard, seemed obvious) would be the route to go if Quinn could've done it over again.

Yes, in a vacuum competition for an under-performing unit should be important. It just wasn't realistic this spring. Out of the 3 non-starters in the mix Ruhland is injured, Patterson moved to center, and Lugg is the man left out for now but of course he can compete!

Also, important to note that when Hainsey was banged up in 2018 fall camp Kraemer slid outside and Ruhland started at RG. Ruhland also got the nod at RG during the season when Kraemer was banged up.

Sure, let's see some competition but let's also see if Lugg can improve to where he's worthy of starting over someone with 1,200 career snaps first. Let's see if he can pass Ruhland as a preferred option at guard first. Because if he can't do that I don't know where this competition is supposed to come from in 2019.
 

Crazy Balki

Site Assigned Optimist
Messages
7,868
Reaction score
4,477
I'm with OMM and Rocket on this one.

The OL had their struggles last year, but I don't think they were nearly as bad as that ALY statistic indicates.

Replacing Nelson and McGlinchey is already a very tall task, but then you have to replace your best remaining OL, most experienced player and captain on top of that? Then you have multiple starters who have to deal with nagging injuries throughout the year (Hainsey, Kraemer, Eichenberg and Ruhland). On top of that, you have a QB change 3 games in, missing your top back for the first third of the year and the guy replacing him (while talented) is still learning the position.

In addition, I'm usually a purveyor of more competition, but the OL is where I generally make an exception. That is a position group where chemistry and cohesion is more important than competition. A group that is very familiar with eachother and have played quite a bit together is going to yield far better results more often than not, especially when the group has as much talent as ND has.
 

irishtrain

Well-known member
Messages
2,359
Reaction score
157
I'll reiterate my unpopular position once (since I believe a very good player is getting disrespected a bit too much --- yes, I watch every Tommy Kraemer rep on replay and do not see the awful play some attribute to him --- I pointed out in the season before last that Kraemer was the RT who was in {{during the Kraemer/Hainsey rotation}} when we scored and moved the ball the most; and I watch plays all the way past the whistle and see him mauling guys on the ground on running-plays-right more than any other OLineman on "their" power plays --- there is a lot of wanting-to-get-at-them in this guy --- and I'll point out that Eichenberg lost his competition with Kraemer for who'd play and who'd sit a couple of years ago ---- this staff, including Harry, has always thought that Tommy was a stud --- he's just not a fast-pulling stud. ... yet.) And, yes, I wonder alongside Rocket, whether there is some "crusade" for some non-understandable reason, against Kraemer.

My position:

1. This harping on TE and RB blocking by me is mocked around here, but it is as real as it gets when you re-watch our games slo-mo. These "secondary" blocker errors mess Book up as well, and he gets moving into spaces relatively safer, but not always "reasonable" for the regular OLine to hold for four or five seconds --- this is especially hard on Eichenberg/Hainsey. Some sacks or hurries might be "credited" to them, but a lot of this is Book seeing a pressure which is not being picked up by a back and moving either too wide or too close to what was a caving Mustipher.

2. We have, thankfully, one of the best QBs in the nation to counteract this, since Book decides to act so quickly decisively. A stronger physical presence at Center (why it is Patterson not Ruhland, even healthy) should shore up our caving-in Cup. Better understanding of blitz packages --- something that I bet those RBs in that crowded RB room will AVIDLY be trying to outcompete their colleagues on in order to get on the field --- should help Hainsey and Eichenberg. If Hainsey and Eichenberg are more "relaxed" about not getting beaten wide, that helps Kraemer and Banks --- just watch Tommy trying to see early in snaps how much trouble Hainsey might be having with loops et al. Even when they don't rush anyone at him --- which often happens as he usually stones an immediate rush, he is forced to pay attention to both Hainsey's and Mustipher's side for breakdowns. Late linebacker blitzes can profit from that.

3. Nobody has much right to lay our running attack mediocrity entirely on the OLine --- Long certainly doesn't. He's practically preached to the media that our lack of explosiveness (even with Dex) was woeful last year. His quote was something like: "we're not explosive. Last season we'd have maybe two 20+ yard plays a game. The previous one we had two a drive." OK OK Q and McGlinchey but it wasn't ALL that.

4. The value of maintaining side-by-side OLine teammates is great. Sure, sometimes you don't want to or can't do that, but the instant sensing of what Hainsey or Kraemer is going to do (by the other in the pair) on a stunt is pretty close to priceless. That is why I believe IF Patterson is pretty good, this is going to be a very good line. AND THEY'LL ALL ULTIMATELY BE DRAFTED --- yep even the "terrible Tommy."


Koolaid now served: our offense is going to be extremely effective whether it is explosive or not. Our OLine will be very good. Our QB will be extremely good, and hard to sack due to instant field analysis and delivery. Our receivers will be very good, especially Claypool and Finke, and at least one young blazer who figures out routes and catches contested balls. RB? Who knows? If I thought we'd be any good there, I'd predict 11-1. A lot of pro scouts will be at later games watching our OLine and noting that there's a lot of drafting potential bashing around out there. Georgia at their place? OK. Maybe a tough task. Michigan at their place --- no Bush, no Wildhair Whitey (forgot his name), no Gary, etc etc --- we win in a brawl.

Hope you are right Mike-like you nobody expects them to beat Ga, man 11-1 would be sweet
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,599
Reaction score
20,064
Also, Heistand almost never messed around with his lines and was super deferential to veteran experience. What Quinn did last spring was the most movement I can remember in recent memory. Not that I think it had a huge impact but the line didn't play well and I wonder if solidifying things earlier (especially Bars at left guard, seemed obvious) would be the route to go if Quinn could've done it over again.

Personal pet peeve of mine especially where continuity is so critical. There are coaches who will move 1 or 2 players on the line when a sub needs to come in. When you move linemen, now they're playing a different position with different assignments and aren't as familiar with who is next to them. If they get flipped to the other side, now they have to change their first step, their drop step, pulling assignment, angles, etc. Seems it would be best to put your sub in for the the injured player and go from there. It's like brushing your teeth or eating dinner with the opposite hand. You can do it, but you're slower and thinking about it instead of instinctively doing it.
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
Freebie. Link in the tweet. Ohio State, Wisconsin & Tennessee also featured.

3. Will Notre Dame have one of the nation's best lines?

Overview: Losing Quenton Nelson and Mike McGlinchey heading into last season certainly put a damper on things when it came to the offensive line, but it was a more-than-serviceable unit as ND put together an undefeated regular season and there are a lot of pieces back that could make the Irish line one of the nation’s best. Plus, there are a lot of players who could be high NFL Draft picks if they grade out well heading into the 2019 season.

By Pro Football Focus standards, Robert Hainsey is the highest-rated lineman coming back to the Irish, but Tommy Kraemer, Liam Eichenberg and Aaron Jones could emerge even more. Plus Notre Dame is bringing in an outstanding haul of offensive linemen in the 2019 recruiting class. All four of its offensive line signees - Quinn Carroll, John Olmstead, Zeke Correll and Andrew Kristofic - were four-stars.

Farrell’s take: You can bet they will. Ronnie Stanley, Nelson and McGlinchey tell the story about how well Notre Dame develops offensive linemen. Yes all of them were four- or five-stars coming out of high school, but each improved greatly under the coaching at Notre Dame. This year’s line will be one of the best in the country once again, and the future continues to look very bright.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">5⃣ Big OL Questions for 2019 <br>Five big offensive line storylines heading into 2019 season, including whether <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> will rebuild into another dominant unit again, via <a href="https://twitter.com/rivalsmike?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@rivalsmike</a> & <a href="https://twitter.com/adamgorney?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@adamgorney</a>: <a href="https://t.co/nd6E0W9f43">https://t.co/nd6E0W9f43</a> <a href="https://t.co/PYEHGlMcgN">pic.twitter.com/PYEHGlMcgN</a></p>— Rivals (@Rivals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Rivals/status/1109258461618024450?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444

T-Boone

Well-known member
Messages
8,400
Reaction score
4,796
Not familiar with this Aaron Jones kid. Walk on that has made his way to starting OL?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, and they will make a movie out of his career called Jonesy. Staring Dustin from Stranger Things.
 

beryirish

Dry Land Is Not A Myth!
Messages
5,949
Reaction score
539
https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/Foot-firing-Tommy-Kraemer-Now-On-Faster-Track-Notre-Dame-130969747/

‘Foot-firing’ Kraemer Now On Fast(er) Track

The signs were all around Notre Dame offensive lineman Tommy Kraemer.

The first one came during his red-shirt freshman season in 2017 when a true freshman – Robert Hainsey – split time with him at right tackle. Then came the move to guard in the spring of 2018.

The slower linemen move closer to the snap of the football.

The most telling sign of all came in the eighth game of last season when after starting 12 of 13 games in ’17 and six of the first seven in ’18 – missing only the Wake Forest game due to injury – offensive coordinator Chip Long tabbed Aaron Banks for the starting unit despite Kraemer’s vast experience and Notre Dame’s ongoing undefeated regular season.

“Coach Long talked to me about it and I used it to fire me up,” recalled Kraemer, the 6-foot-5 5/8, 319-pounder out of Elder High School in Cincinnati.

“That was the best thing that could have happened to me. I’m happy it happened. I had a really strong next seven games.”

And yet a strong finish to the 2018 regular season – particularly since the campaign ended with a 30-3 loss to Clemson in the playoffs where the Irish managed just 248 yards total offense – was not enough.

Kraemer had some work to do in January and February before the start of spring drills in March. In the words of offensive line coach Jeff Quinn, Kraemer had to improve his “foot fire.”

“Last year was an up-and-down year at guard,” Kraemer said. “I struggled. It was my feet. I wasn’t moving well enough. I wanted to make sure that never happened again.

“We have a lot of outside perimeter pulls and there were times when the running back was running into me. So I really focused on being explosive on the pulls and getting on the edge.”

The weight has remained the same. In fact, Kraemer says he’s actually two pounds heavier than he was last year. But his body composition has changed dramatically.

“I completely changed my body this off-season with Coach (Matt) Balis,” Kraemer said. “I just made sure I was eating better and focusing on the nutrition, hydration, taking care of my body, sleep…

“Everything goes into it, and when you do that, you put on more muscle and lose fat, which makes you more explosive. It’s night and day compared to last year in how I feel pulling around the edge. It feels great.”

Long’s decision to temporarily take Kraemer out of the starting lineup during the 2018 season said it all. Long added some verbal advice following the Cotton Bowl to make sure Kraemer completely understood.

“He had to move better,” said Long of Kraemer’s off-season decree. “I like to pull our guys. We were not very good at that last year and we’re not going to lose that part of our offense. If (Kraemer) wanted to be the guy, he had to do it so he could pull and pull with power.

“Now you see a much more confident guy. He’s stronger. The way he’s bouncing around out there is way better than the middle of (last) year when he struggled.”

With the lost body fat and the added mobility, Kraemer not only looks and plays like a new man, but talks the part as well. Once a guy who had trepidation and doubts about his ability, Kraemer discusses his future with the Irish like a guy who has had the shackles removed.

“It definitely was confidence issue, too,” Kraemer said. “The Ball State game and the Pitt game were my two bad games. I lacked the confidence after a bad play. I couldn’t regroup.

“Later in the year, I did a really good job of that. If there was a bad play, I moved on to the next play. Forget about that one and move on. Now with my better foot speed, my confidence is even higher.”

Adding to Kraemer’s improved body and mind is one of Notre Dame’s great confidence-givers – the aforementioned Jeff Quinn.

“It’s a lot of fun playing for Coach Quinn,” Kraemer said. “We have a great relationship. He wasn’t on the (assistant) coaching staff when I was being recruited, but he was here. He’s a Cincinnati guy like I am. So I know him really well.

“He’s a great guy. Kind of a father figure for all of us. It’s fun playing for him. We want to make him proud. His enthusiasm is infectious. He gets all pumped up when we make big blocks.”

Now that Kraemer’s “football self esteem” is on the rise, he can expand his horizons a bit, joining Hainsey and fellow red-shirt junior Liam Eichenberg as the elder statesmen and leaders of the offensive line, along with injured fifth-year senior Ruhland.

4COMMENTS

“Absolutely,” said Kraemer when asked if he feels like a leader on Quinn’s unit. “We all share that duty. Rob, Liam and I. Trevor too. He’s been great running film and keeping all the guys energized while making sure the young guys are good.

“I think I’ve had a really strong spring so far. Obviously, you want to improve every day, and I have a lot of stuff to work on. But I don’t want to have a season like I had last year when I was an up and down player. So I focused on my body and really improved. I’m at a really good point now.”
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,975
Reaction score
6,464
Grind them into the ground, Big Man. You've always looked like our next Mauler to me.
 

IrishFaninTX

New member
Messages
1,038
Reaction score
46
Great read by Bill C. Currently has us -14 at Georgia and -5 at Michigan. Everything else we are at least 6 point favorites, if not double digits. Could be kind of a unique season.

Doesn't - mean predicted to win? Or is he saying Georgia is favored by 14?
 

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,128
Reaction score
11,077
Doesn't - mean predicted to win? Or is he saying Georgia is favored by 14?

Georgia is favored by 14 according to S&P+ predictions.

ND can help themselves if the fill-ins at LB are ready to play right away, and if Griffith is okay opposite Troy Pride. The line might end up closer if ND is impressive in their first two games.

Bonus points if Book takes a step up and if the OL improves.
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
Didn't realize ND had 10 OL's from Indiana on the squad...???

With recent success stories such as former five-star and first-round draft pick Quenton Nelson to pitch to recruits, the Irish are now having success recruiting nationally at the position and securing a talent in their backyard early is a great start.

https://n.rivals.com/news/rivals-rankings-week-class-of-2021-ol-rankings-released

Traditionally, who besides the Service Academies has a more diverse geographic roster?
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,599
Reaction score
20,064
Have no idea, but Stanford, OSU and scUM might, maybe?
 

NDMIA

Well-known member
Messages
2,333
Reaction score
202
2015: 16
2016: 27
2017: 19
2018: 13
2019: 7
2020: 14, so far

Couple things I like about Mario Cristobal. He’s a ridiculously good recruiter. He fits perfectly for what Oregon is trying to sell to recruits. Also, he was an OLine coach most of his career and that’ll be the thing he works hard on bringing in on the trail. QB with Hebert and Mariota has track record and skill positions have a history of being good in Oregon. OLine is something they need a lot of and Cristobal should do a good job. Recruiting is definitely gonna kick to another notch. You could see continuous top 10 classes which would make Oregon suddenly very scary.
 

arndtjc

Dee Snutzs
Messages
1,275
Reaction score
2,340
Offensive Line Thread

Dog pile on Quinn! Oh wait, that's not what this means.



Great recruiter AND the best pass rushing grade from PFF?



Maybe the Bears should hire him? No italics. Signed, - A Bears fan.



The Notre Dame offensive line leads... PFF College (@PFF_College) October 16, 2019



Crus, would you say this is more evidence of Book’s struggles being on him, considering the line has graded out as well as they have in pass pro? Leaving clean pockets has been an issue, and I feel like this kind of backs up what I’ve been seeing
 
Last edited:

Irish YJ

Southsida
Messages
25,888
Reaction score
1,444
Not sure how much stock I'd put into PFF's grade. If you take it seriously, you also have to take FO's grades seriously, which aren't near as complimentary. Also, IIRC, PFF grades them pretty bad in rushing. I'm not sure I can buy an OL grade being bad in the running game, but so good in the passing game. Just doesn't compute.


PFF also Herbert (1600+ yards, almost 70% completion % and only 1 INT thus far) and Lawrence outside of the top 15. All while having Fromm who has 1350ish yards and is 9 TDs and 3INTs at #6. I can understand Lawrence's grade, but 10 slots behind Fromm? And Herbert 19th?

Book is at 25.
 

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,599
Reaction score
20,064
I don't follow stats too much or who makes them, but one thing is evident. This line has taken a step forward this year and has been getting better by the week according to my non-professional eye.
 

BabyIrish

Marble Mouth
Messages
2,838
Reaction score
719
I don't follow stats too much or who makes them, but one thing is evident. This line has taken a step forward this year and has been getting better by the week according to my non-professional eye.

Agreed. They had one poor game against Nee Mexico but other than that they’ve been good to very good since and I hope they punish Michigan.
 
Top