Obamacare

[NDFan4Life]

obamacare is a knee jerk to what was already happening...agreed. Medicare was impacted by years of "changing" through political pandering and government operational mismanagement...even fraud.

Sometimes lists are available if she was in a private system, and used it exclusively. Paper to get you access can happen pretty quickly I think...can she sign something? Next best thing is to describe all the conditions for which she was taking medicine...maybe they'll take that for starters???

I don't know why it's so difficult to do this. We thought the hardest part was getting her out here. We're going to try my brother. He's the one we've given power of attorney to. He's in pretty good with her current doctor. Maybe he can get the info for us.

Anyway, thanks for help.

 

[phgreek]

I don't know why it's so difficult to do this. We thought the hardest part was getting her out here. We're going to try my brother. He's the one we've given power of attorney to. He's in pretty good with her current doctor. Maybe he can get the info for us.

Anyway, thanks for help.

ah...your bro is the key to the list...

Good luck man...

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Sorry for bringing up a dead thread, but I need to vent.

My Mom had a stroke a few months ago. She's been in a healthcare facility in Illinois for therapy, but is very unhappy. My wife and I talked her into coming to live with us until she's able to get back out on her own. My wife's contacted over 25 doctors in our area to set her up with a primary physician. Every single one of them are not willing to take on a new patient on Medicare. Some of the doctors said that they haven't been getting paid from Medicare. I have no idea why, and am becoming extremely frustrated. I don't want to go tell my Mom that we can't bring her out here. That would just crush her. I'm at my wit's end here. We're continuing to call doctors, but things are not looking good. Does anyone have any suggestions on what we can do? Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

This problem is going to get worse before it's better, unfortunately. Docs don't take MediCare (1) because Medicare pays about 1/2 of what normal insurance does per procedure (and Medicare doesn't reimburse for all the procedures as normal insurance). This spread is only going to get larger in the future, as Medicare underfunding is going to reach 90+ trillion in the next 20-30 years.

(2) when you accept Medicare, the feds hire regional mercenaries to audit your charts for medical necessity. If the mercenaries can find discrepancies in your charting they get a commission, and you have to repay the gov't plus a 10% penalty. If you've mis-billed or mis-coded something, it's a felony.

It's just not worth it.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Here it comes:

CBO: Health care penalty to hit 6M people

The Congressional Budget Office estimated today that nearly 6 million people will have to pay a penalty for not obtaining health insurance once President Obama's health care law is full in place.

That's a 2 million increase over a previous estimate.

The average penalty is estimated at nearly $1,200.

The requirement that nearly all Americans buy some form of health insurance goes into effect starting in 2014.

The Supreme Court upheld the so-called individual mandate in June.

When fully implemented in 2016, the penalty is expected to raise $6.9 billion, the CBO estimated.

From the CBO:

"After accounting for those who will not be subject to the penalty tax, CBO and JCT (Joint Committee on Taxation) now estimate that about 6 million people will pay a penalty because they are uninsured in 2016 (a figure that includes uninsured dependents who have the penalty paid on their behalf) and that total collections will be about $7 billion in 2016 and average about $8 billion per year over the 2017â??2022 period.

Those estimates differ from projections that CBO and JCT made in April 2010: About two million more uninsured people are now projected to pay the penalty each year, and collections are now expected to be about $3 billion more per year."

CBO: Health care penalty to hit 6M people

 

[phgreek]

Here it comes:

CBO: Health care penalty to hit 6M people

The Congressional Budget Office estimated today that nearly 6 million people will have to pay a penalty for not obtaining health insurance once President Obama's health care law is full in place.

That's a 2 million increase over a previous estimate.

The average penalty is estimated at nearly $1,200.

The requirement that nearly all Americans buy some form of health insurance goes into effect starting in 2014.

The Supreme Court upheld the so-called individual mandate in June.

When fully implemented in 2016, the penalty is expected to raise $6.9 billion, the CBO estimated.

From the CBO:

"After accounting for those who will not be subject to the penalty tax, CBO and JCT (Joint Committee on Taxation) now estimate that about 6 million people will pay a penalty because they are uninsured in 2016 (a figure that includes uninsured dependents who have the penalty paid on their behalf) and that total collections will be about $7 billion in 2016 and average about $8 billion per year over the 2017â??2022 period.

Those estimates differ from projections that CBO and JCT made in April 2010: About two million more uninsured people are now projected to pay the penalty each year, and collections are now expected to be about $3 billion more per year."

CBO: Health care penalty to hit 6M people

...yea...no one really believed the numbers...nothing in obamacare was priced in reality...it was priced to sell...BUT they weren't lying...my only question is...whats the JCT doing in this...its not a tax...also not a lie...

 

[tadman95]

I don't particularly like the individual mandate but here's the thing: People without insurance will get sick and injured, and they will go to the hospitals who are required to treat them. Those costs get tacked into the bills of people with insurance.

So I don't have a problem with it from a big picture level.

Maybe that's overly simplistic and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong but don't think I am.

 

[phgreek]

I don't particularly like the individual mandate but here's the thing: People without insurance will get sick and injured, and they will go to the hospitals who are required to treat them. Those costs get tacked into the bills of people with insurance.

So I don't have a problem with it from a big picture level.

Maybe that's overly simplistic and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong but don't think I am.

I really don't get beyond the fact that we are runnning CRAZY defecit spending, and what do we do...add another entitlement. Even if we implement Mr. Obama's taxes, It won't touch the cost of this entitlement. This wasn't done as a bailout...which is more a debt than defecit issue...this was done as a long term recurring, and growing cost. In addition it was done in a repugnant and irresponsible way wherein none of the d!ckheads that rammed it through had a clue what was in it...this was neither prudent, nor good form, and is a huge contributor to the gridloack that stands today...it was partisan pandering and done to get and maintain a political upper hand, and not done to better the Republic. If Mr. Bush's conduct was unpatriotic as relates to tax breaks, debt and deficit..WTF is this?

More of the same...

 

[IrishLax]

Got to bump this thread to share my first personal experiences with this wonderful law....

At my small-to-medium sized company, our health insurance costs are going up 9%... after a year in which our claims per employee were far below the national average and less than the year before. Our HR personnel were all "WTF!?!" and started shopping around because they thought this was ridiculous... all of the other plans/rates were just as bad or worse. Why are the costs going up so much? Because of Obamacare and the administrative/other costs passes on to health insurance providers to comply with the law. This increase in costs amounts to a couple thousand per employee... so rather than get raises this year, that's probably where the money is going to go. Either that or they're going to have to fire one or two people.

On top of that... I learned that the "benefits" we get are about to be taxed... because apparently any health insurance that isn't the Government program == a "Cadillac" plan. So, just pulling some rough numbers out of my *** for a second, if I currently get $8k in "benefits" through the company provided health insurance... the Government is now going to tax that $8k as income leaving me on the hook for a couple hundred or thousand more dollars.

What a bunch of total BS. When Obama says "if you like your current plan, you can keep it!" it's beyond fraudulent. It's like saying "if you like your current car, you can keep it!" but then making you pay hundreds more a year in a new tax if you choose to keep said car.... and then making the fuel for your car more expensive as well to discourage driving it.

Obama is a genius because most people won't see these costs. They almost all hit at the corporate level, so they're largely invisible to the average worker. No one will see that when they don't get raises it's because the company had to absorb tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional healthcare cost. No one will see that when a couple people get let go to "trim the fat" that it's because of these additional costs. I honestly don't think the law will affect workers at big businesses much... or Government employees... but those of us who work for small-to-medium business... yeah, it's not pretty.

Anyways, just thought I would share, because until yesterday I was completely ignorant to the actual tangible effects of the law on me and my company. And it's always good to be informed. I'd encourage everyone to ask their HR people if their companies are experiencing something similar because this is all just a personal anecdote right now from one corporation.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Your premiums are going up, the tax is going up, and your expenditure deductions won't start until 10% of AGI, which used to be 7.5%.

Nobody knew this, because only Pelosi has claimed to actually have read the bill...

 

[Ndaccountant]

Your premiums are going up, the tax is going up, and your expenditure deductions won't start until 10% of AGI, which used to be 7.5%.

Nobody knew this, because only Pelosi has claimed to actually have read the bill...

Don't forget the much lower FSA ceiling too. That is another "hidden" tax.

 

[RDU Irish]

Thank you for illustrating that which was obvious to those with an ounce of business experience.

Small to medium business is the job engine for this country and it is being pummelled by this administration.

This is very much like the inflation in gas and food pummelling the poor and middle class. There is a chance one of the candidates understands this, and his name does not rhyme with Yo Mama.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

imo - obamacare is equivalent of a family that is 100% maxed on their cc going out and buying a new porsche. god help us....

 

[Ndaccountant]

Thank you for illustrating that which was obvious to those with an ounce of business experience.

Small to medium business is the job engine for this country and it is being pummelled by this administration.

This is very much like the inflation in gas and food pummelling the poor and middle class. There is a chance one of the candidates understands this, and his name does not rhyme with Yo Mama.

Does it rhyme with:

 

[Irish Houstonian]

... There is a chance one of the candidates understands this, and his name does not rhyme with Yo Mama.

"What??? I love small business!!!"

/s/

Rep. Yokohama

 

[CHIDomer9]

Got to bump this thread to share my first personal experiences with this wonderful law....

At my small-to-medium sized company, our health insurance costs are going up 9%... after a year in which our claims per employee were far below the national average and less than the year before. Our HR personnel were all "WTF!?!" and started shopping around because they thought this was ridiculous... all of the other plans/rates were just as bad or worse. Why are the costs going up so much? Because of Obamacare and the administrative/other costs passes on to health insurance providers to comply with the law. This increase in costs amounts to a couple thousand per employee... so rather than get raises this year, that's probably where the money is going to go. Either that or they're going to have to fire one or two people.

On top of that... I learned that the "benefits" we get are about to be taxed... because apparently any health insurance that isn't the Government program == a "Cadillac" plan. So, just pulling some rough numbers out of my *** for a second, if I currently get $8k in "benefits" through the company provided health insurance... the Government is now going to tax that $8k as income leaving me on the hook for a couple hundred or thousand more dollars.

What a bunch of total BS. When Obama says "if you like your current plan, you can keep it!" it's beyond fraudulent. It's like saying "if you like your current car, you can keep it!" but then making you pay hundreds more a year in a new tax if you choose to keep said car.... and then making the fuel for your car more expensive as well to discourage driving it.

Obama is a genius because most people won't see these costs. They almost all hit at the corporate level, so they're largely invisible to the average worker. No one will see that when they don't get raises it's because the company had to absorb tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional healthcare cost. No one will see that when a couple people get let go to "trim the fat" that it's because of these additional costs. I honestly don't think the law will affect workers at big businesses much... or Government employees... but those of us who work for small-to-medium business... yeah, it's not pretty.

Anyways, just thought I would share, because until yesterday I was completely ignorant to the actual tangible effects of the law on me and my company. And it's always good to be informed. I'd encourage everyone to ask their HR people if their companies are experiencing something similar because this is all just a personal anecdote right now from one corporation.

This is what I do for a living, so I just wanted to chime in, but I promise to be brief.

If your small-to-mid size company is has between 2- and ~200 employees (depending on the carrier), your claims would not be the only factor in determining your renewal. At that group size, the claims experience is not deemed credible, so the carrier uses mostly their manuals, or their book of business to determine the rates.

But let's say for a second that your increase is +9%. That increase is close to medical trend, or how much the carrier expects the cost of claims, admin, etc. to increase year over year (and this is constant, having little or nothing to do with the law). And just because your HR said that your claims were lower this year than last year and below the national average -- those things don't have anything to do with your renewal costs. Remember, your premium has to be able to support your claims (which is part of the motivation behind the mandate. We have millions of people showing up at the ER who don't pay any premium for health insurance. The mandate tries to correct that.)

My point is, it sounds like you have a bone to pick with the POTUS anyway, which I respect. But don't blame the law for a +9% renewal. Carriers have been loading rates for the last 2-3 years by less than 2% (max) for changes as a result of the law.

And BTW, the Caddilax tax isn't proposed to take effect until 2018, a fact that is pretty easy to look up on the Google. But hey, who here has internet access, amiright?

 

[IrishLax]

This is what I do for a living, so I just wanted to chime in, but I promise to be brief.

If your small-to-mid size company is has between 2- and ~200 employees (depending on the carrier), your claims would not be the only factor in determining your renewal. At that group size, the claims experience is not deemed credible, so the carrier uses mostly their manuals, or their book of business to determine the rates.

But let's say for a second that your increase is +9%. That increase is close to medical trend, or how much the carrier expects the cost of claims, admin, etc. to increase year over year (and this is constant, having little or nothing to do with the law). And just because your HR said that your claims were lower this year than last year and below the national average -- those things don't have anything to do with your renewal costs. Remember, your premium has to be able to support your claims (which is part of the motivation behind the mandate. We have millions of people showing up at the ER who don't pay any premium for health insurance. The mandate tries to correct that.)

We've never ever had a rate increase remotely close to 9%. Ever. Last year we had 0%. I was shown the data, the explanation given for the large increase was administrative and other costs due to the new laws.

My point is, it sounds like you have a bone to pick with the POTUS anyway, which I respect. But don't blame the law for a +9% renewal. Carriers have been loading rates for the last 2-3 years by less than 2% (max) for changes as a result of the law.

And BTW, the Caddilax tax isn't proposed to take effect until 2018, a fact that is pretty easy to look up on the Google. But hey, who here has internet access, amiright?

Did I ever say it was going into effect next year? But hey, reading is hard, amirite? It's still going to happen, and it's completely irrelevant that it's delayed 5 years to not immediately **** people off.

 

[irishpat183]

Plain and simple of it (in addition to screwing Small biz)....

You're putting government in charge of 1/6th of our economy. You'll put insurance companies outta biz in a matter of years (no one can compete with government as they have an unlimited amount of money to lose)...

This is the same corporation (yes, that's what it is for those on the left that cry about corporations yet they support the largest one) that can't run a post office.

But they can tell me that they know better about my health care?

 

[DSully1995]

I think your all just screwed, socialized medicine looks pretty good now dont it?


I mean, it was inevitable for the US to find a to get everyone coverage, 20 million americans can just go unprotected and/or get denied by every insurance provider forpre-existing conditions.

^Its all about what your willing to pay for the greater good, im myself split between the middle, ofcourse rates have to go up to cover the sick, but hey, yall christians here, does it not apply in this situation?

 

[irishpat183]

I think your all just screwed, socialized medicine looks pretty good now dont it?


I mean, it was inevitable for the US to find a to get everyone coverage, 20 million americans can just go unprotected and/or get denied by every insurance provider forpre-existing conditions.

^Its all about what your willing to pay for the greater good, im myself split between the middle, ofcourse rates have to go up to cover the sick, but hey, yall christians here, does it not apply in this situation?

No, socialized medicine never looks good. I am all for health care REFORM....but per usual....there are too many peopel that believe that politicans know what's best for them.

And guess who was first in line for excemptions?

HOw can our government ask us to trust and buy into a system....THAT THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO PARTICIPATE IN???


Obamacare is so great...that even liberals are looking for a way out.

 

[PraetorianND]

I think your all just screwed, socialized medicine looks pretty good now dont it?


I mean, it was inevitable for the US to find a to get everyone coverage, 20 million americans can just go unprotected and/or get denied by every insurance provider forpre-existing conditions.

^Its all about what your willing to pay for the greater good, im myself split between the middle, ofcourse rates have to go up to cover the sick, but hey, yall christians here, does it not apply in this situation?

The counter argument would be something like, "I'd rather donate to the red cross, church, etc than give my money to the government who is inefficient with it."

 

[irishpat183]

With my counter-counter being, insurance companies run the plans, they just being told by Gov. to accept everyone.

So they are perverting the system...wonder how that's gonna work out??? (see "Housing crisis)

 

[IrishLax]

I think your all just screwed, socialized medicine looks pretty good now dont it?


I mean, it was inevitable for the US to find a to get everyone coverage, 20 million americans can just go unprotected and/or get denied by every insurance provider forpre-existing conditions.

^Its all about what your willing to pay for the greater good, im myself split between the middle, ofcourse rates have to go up to cover the sick, but hey, yall christians here, does it not apply in this situation?

See, this is my biggest problem. On the surface, I totally support a law that says:

"We're going to make sure all Americans get healthcare, we're going to make sure that students don't get dropped from their parent's plans too early, etc."

The general spirit of the law I think is totally legit. What I don't like is how they're paying for it... that is, they're basically legislating the private insurers to a place of non-competitiveness so that people slowly over time are going to all be pushed into the Government run program. They're trying to put financial pressure on companies to decouple the standard employer provided to employee health insurance. Until I saw the actual effects firsthand, I didn't really grasp it. Now the trend is obvious. Frankly, I like my health care. And I worked in Government contracting so I know how HORRIBLY run most Government programs are... and I had experience with Veteran Affairs and what a mess the VA hospital system is... I've simply got more faith in private industry.

 

[PraetorianND]

With my counter-counter being, insurance companies run the plans, they just being told by Gov. to accept everyone.

I personally think it's outrageous that in 2012 everyone does not have healthcare. I'm not sure why education is more of a basic fundamental concern than health. It should be the other way round in my opinion. But hey, what do I know.

 

[Buster Bluth]

yall christians here, does it not apply in this situation?

Absolutely not.

We should have demanded a policy that facilitates competition and lowers costs. Instead we got a policy that simply mandates coverage.

More costumers for corporations is not going to lower costs. They are banking on savings from lowered ER bills, and that's nice and all, but we could have done all this while opening upstate lines for competition.

 

[irishpat183]

See, this is my biggest problem. On the surface, I totally support a law that says:

"We're going to make sure all Americans get healthcare, we're going to make sure that students don't get dropped from their parent's plans too early, etc."

The general spirit of the law I think is totally legit. What I don't like is how they're paying for it... that is, they're basically legislating the private insurers to a place of non-competitiveness so that people slowly over time are going to all be pushed into the Government run program. They're trying to put financial pressure on companies to decouple the standard employer provided to employee health insurance. Until I saw the actual effects firsthand, I didn't really grasp it. Now the trend is obvious. Frankly, I like my health care. And I worked in Government contracting so I know how HORRIBLY run most Government programs are... and I had experience with Veteran Affairs and what a mess the VA hospital system is... I've simply got more faith in private industry.

That's exactly what I said. But you put it so nicely.....LOL

 

[irishpat183]

And at the end of the day.....We insure over 80% of our population.

So for the sake of, say, 20 million outta 300 million...We're willing to turn over the system to government?

 

[PraetorianND]

But who's concern is that?

Is it governments job to protect the citizens from themselves and others?

And education isn't free, either. Just check your taxes.

YES

Thank you for reminding me that I pay taxes and that goes to education.....

I'm tired of how condescending people can be on this site. Show some respect, I'm merely voicing my opinion. Feel free to disagree if you like but no need to act like a jerk. Also, if I "check my taxes" it says nothing about education on them... WEIRD.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

nvm

 

[Me2SouthBend]

No, socialized medicine never looks good. I am all for health care REFORM....but per usual....there are too many peopel that believe that politicans know what's best for them.

And guess who was first in line for excemptions?

HOw can our government ask us to trust and buy into a system....THAT THEY HAVE NO PLANS TO PARTICIPATE IN???


Obamacare is so great...that even liberals are looking for a way out.

Pat, please enlighten me on the Republican plan for health care reform. I've been waiting for so long, they hide it like Colonel Sanders secret recipe.

 

[GoIrish41]

But who's concern is that?
Is it governments job to protect the citizens from themselves and others?

And education isn't free, either. Just check your taxes.

It should be the concern of all of us. We are a better country than one that has no concern for the most vulnerable among us.